Amil interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12 vs Genesis 9:15

[Earburner]

You are equating interpreting things literally or to be about physical things with the wisdom of men. That is ridiculous. Spiritual discernment has to do with discerning what is literal and what is figurative. What is spiritual and what is physical. You seem to think that having a spiritual interpretation means you are using spiritual discernment. No, I believe I'm using spiritual discernment by discerning that the new earth is a new literal planet earth that we will literally dwell on.

I am glad to say that we both are doing the same in applying discernment. Unfortunately you have forgotten the meaning of that which is "the wisdom of men". It is knowledge that is obtained by the the mind of the natural man, and not that which is revealed by the mind of Christ.

Nonsense. You are just trying too hard. Sometimes, things are simple and there's nothing wrong with that.

It is evident that you have judged me by your natural mind, that my understanding was not revealed to me by the mind of Christ, but only your understanding is.

The next thing that you will be telling me is that you will be going to your "mansion in the sky, when (you) die".
Please compare the words "mansion" and "abode" in the Strongs Concordance, and then tell me if anyone is going to their mansion! (ref. my post #136.)
G3438- mansions- KJV John 14:3
G3438- abode- KJV John 14:23.

"ALL the churches have some of His Truth, but none of the churches have ALL of His Truth."- Earburner

1 Cor. 2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [authority] of God.

 

[Earburner]

Keep your false accusations to yourself. I have given evidence as to the earth being regenerated when Jesus comes. You have avoided it.

The "wisdom of men" is easy to avoid, when it is overturned by that which Christ reveals through His Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 2
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am glad to say that we both are doing the same in applying discernment. Unfortunately you have forgotten the meaning of that which is "the wisdom of men". It is knowledge that is obtained by the the mind of the natural man, and not that which is revealed by the mind of Christ.

What gave you the idea that I forgot that or don't understand that?

It is evident that you have judged me by your natural mind,

It is evident to me that you are 100% wrong and are full of yourself spiritually. Get off your high horse.

that my understanding was not revealed to me by the mind of Christ, but only your understanding is.

That wasn't my point. I'm saying that spiritual discernment is not related to spiritualizing the text the way you're doing, but rather discerning the difference between text about physical things and text about spiritual things.

The next thing that you will be telling me is that you will be going to your "mansion in the sky, when (you) die".

Where are you coming up with this nonsense? You're acting as if I said everything should be interpreted literally. No, that is not at all what I'm saying.

Please compare the words "mansion" and "abode" in the Strongs Concordance, and then tell me if anyone is going to their mansion! (ref. my post #136.)
G3438- mansions- KJV John 14:3
G3438- abode- KJV John 14:23.

You wasted your time with this strawman argument. You should be embarrassed. Nowhere did I say anything about us having literal mansions. Good grief.

"ALL the churches have some of His Truth, but none of the churches have ALL of His Truth."- Earburner

Wow. Quoting yourself? You are an arrogant person and you need to humble yourself.

 

[WPM]

The "wisdom of men" is easy to avoid, when it is overturned by that which Christ reveals through His Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 2
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I am done talking to you. You are full of yourself.

 

[Earburner]

I am glad to say that we both are doing the same in applying discernment. Unfortunately you have forgotten the meaning of that which is "the wisdom of men". It is knowledge that is obtained by the the mind of the natural man, and not that which is revealed by the mind of Christ.

@Spiritual Israelite replied:
What gave you the idea that I forgot that or don't understand that?
@Earburner 's response:
It's not that you forgot or don't understand the meaning of that which is "the wisdom of men", you simply can not discern it.

It is evident that you have judged me by your natural mind,

It is evident to me that you are 100% wrong and are full of yourself spiritually. Get off your high horse.
You can't judge me by the mind of Christ, only by your natural mind.
1 Cor. 2
[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

that my understanding was not revealed to me by the mind of Christ, but only your understanding is.

That wasn't my point. I'm saying that spiritual discernment is not related to spiritualizing the text the way you're doing, but rather discerning the difference between text about physical things and text about spiritual things.
And that is exactly what I was doing for an example with the word study for the word "mansion" and "abode".
My point was to reveal the Lord's Truth, as opposed to religious church-ianity's erroneous popular doctrine.

The next thing that you will be telling me is that you will be going to your "mansion in the sky, when (you) die".

Where are you coming up with this nonsense? You're acting as if I said everything should be interpreted literally. No, that is not at all what I'm saying.
Maybe not you, but religious church-ianity has a severe problem with interpreting everything literally, by which MANY are deceived by their false teaching and false doctrines. Do you want to go over the false doctrine again, about how everyone has been given an eternal soul ?

Please compare the words "mansion" and "abode" in the Strongs Concordance, and then tell me if anyone is going to their mansion! (ref. my post #136.)
G3438- mansions- KJV John 14:3
G3438- abode- KJV John 14:23.

You wasted your time with this strawman argument. You should be embarrassed. Nowhere did I say anything about us having literal mansions. Good grief.
As I said, it is the example of how truth is revealed by the mind of Christ, as opposed to the limited discernment that the natural mind generates, whereby fiction is delivered, and then becomes doctrinated by false authorities, so as to be truth.

"ALL the churches have some of His Truth, but none of the churches have ALL of His Truth."- Earburner

Wow. Quoting yourself? You are an arrogant person and you need to humble yourself.
Why not!! God gave to me those words.Therefore I can quote Him through myself if I want!!

 

[WPM]

@Spiritual Israelite replied:
What gave you the idea that I forgot that or don't understand that?
@Earburner 's response:
It's not that you forgot or don't understand the meaning of that which is "the wisdom of men", you simply can not discern it.


It is evident to me that you are 100% wrong and are full of yourself spiritually. Get off your high horse.
You can't judge me by the mind of Christ, only by your natural mind.
1 Cor. 2
[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


That wasn't my point. I'm saying that spiritual discernment is not related to spiritualizing the text the way you're doing, but rather discerning the difference between text about physical things and text about spiritual things.
And that is exactly what I was doing for an example with the word study for the word "mansion" and "abode".
My point was to reveal the Lord's Truth, as opposed to religious church-ianity's erroneous popular doctrine.


Where are you coming up with this nonsense? You're acting as if I said everything should be interpreted literally. No, that is not at all what I'm saying.
Maybe not you, but religious church-ianity has a severe problem with interpreting everything literally, by which MANY are deceived by their false teaching and false doctrines. Do you want to go over the false doctrine again, about how everyone has been given an eternal soul ?


You wasted your time with this strawman argument. You should be embarrassed. Nowhere did I say anything about us having literal mansions. Good grief.
As I said, it is the example of how truth is revealed by the mind of Christ, as opposed to the limited discernment that the natural mind generates, whereby fiction is delivered, and then becomes doctrinated by false authorities, so as to be truth.


Wow. Quoting yourself? You are an arrogant person and you need to humble yourself.
Why not!! God gave to me those words.Therefore I can quote Him through myself if I want!!

Turn to Scripture and it will help you. Get off your high chair before you fall off.

 

[Earburner]

I am done talking to you. You are full of yourself.

Get a mirror! You can't stand being opposed, therefore all who do so, are not worthy of your attention. So then, for you to move on is your self justification for avoiding the dilemma about yourself.

 

[Earburner]

Turn to Scripture and it will help you. Get off your high chair before you fall off.

Excuse me, but it's you who is looking DOWN at me.

 

[ewq1938]

I never said that at all.
How is Jesus at the moment?

In a physical, resurrected human body which is now immortal.

He is not requiring any food for nourishment,

He asked for food after his resurrection and ate. Your point loses all value because of those facts.

nor is he dwelling on any earth type of a planet.

lol, so? He is coming back here and will live here forever, same with his father. Eternity is physical, all physical beings living on a physical planet and even fruit from a tree forever and leaves to heal. Nothing in Rev 21-22 supports your interp.

 

[Earburner]

In a physical, resurrected human body which is now immortal.

Agreed 100%

He asked for food after his resurrection and ate. Your point loses all value because of those facts.

Agreed 100%, yes he asked for food.
As for the reality of Jesus' New resurrected Life and the questions that I shall ask here, you and all would do well to at least hear what I have to say, along with the NT scriptures I provide.
Luke 24
[41] And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
[42] And they gave him a PIECE [a mouthful?] of a broiled [dead] fish, and of an honeycomb.
[43] And he took it, and did eat [dead food?] before them.

Question:
After Jesus ate the food, did Jesus swallow the (dead) food, and therefore sought the need for bathroom facillities in a few hours???

Question:
Since all the blood of Jesus flowed/drained out of His mortal body on the cross, does Jesus now have NEW Immortal Blood in His veins?
If Jesus does have New blood in his Eternally Immortal New body, is it still required of him to eat DEAD food and to breathe Oxygenated Air? Or could it simply be that Jesus does not have any blood at all?
You do realize, with the dead food scenario, you just brought DEATH back into your picture of Eternity!! Rev. 21:4

lol, so? He is coming back here and will live here forever, same with his father. Eternity is physical, all physical beings living on a physical planet and even fruit from a tree forever and leaves to heal. Nothing in Rev 21-22 supports your interp.

Since Jesus is NOW Eternally Immortal in Heaven, and we shall be Eternally Immortal also, why do you perceive that Jesus and ourselves shall require nourishment from dead food, or any other kind of food, to STAY ALIVE in order to remain Eternally Immortal??
And you think that I have problems with my understanding??? LOL!

Think on this:
1 Thes. 4
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall RISE [from sleep-John 11:26; 1 Thes. 4:14] first:

[17] Then we which are [mortally] alive and remain shall be ["changed" and] caught up together with THEM in the clouds, to MEET the Lord in the air: and SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

As Jesus was able to be Spirit and Immortal flesh at will, as it was revealed in the upper room with the doors shut, for fear of the Jews, Jesus remained on earth for forty days, so as to be SEEN in His glorified, Immortal, physical appearance by His Disciples. However, upon His Ascension into Heaven, WE ALL KNOW that in a cloud, He DISAPPEARED/vanished from their visual sight!! Acts 1:9-11.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Spiritual Israelite replied:
What gave you the idea that I forgot that or don't understand that?
@Earburner 's response:
It's not that you forgot or don't understand the meaning of that which is "the wisdom of men", you simply can not discern it.

You seem to live in a different world than I do. You are the one who spiritualizes text about literal, physical things. You are the one using the wisdom of men to understand things that must be spiritually discerned. Like most people on this forum you often struggle to discern the difference between figurative and literal text or between spiritual and physical text.

It is evident to me that you are 100% wrong and are full of yourself spiritually. Get off your high horse.
You can't judge me by the mind of Christ, only by your natural mind.
1 Cor. 2
[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The mind of Christ tells me that you are full of yourself and need to humble yourself. You think you are high and mighty because you can discern secret spiritual truths while in reality you are denying obvious, literal truths.

That wasn't my point. I'm saying that spiritual discernment is not related to spiritualizing the text the way you're doing, but rather discerning the difference between text about physical things and text about spiritual things.
And that is exactly what I was doing for an example with the word study for the word "mansion" and "abode".
My point was to reveal the Lord's Truth, as opposed to religious church-ianity's erroneous popular doctrine.

You were trying to apply something to me that I never stated. I never said anything about us having literal mansions.

Where are you coming up with this nonsense? You're acting as if I said everything should be interpreted literally. No, that is not at all what I'm saying.
Maybe not you, but religious church-ianity has a severe problem with interpreting everything literally, by which MANY are deceived by their false teaching and false doctrines.

Yes, they do, but you go too far in the opposite direction with your hyper-spiritual approach.

Do you want to go over the false doctrine again, about how everyone has been given an eternal soul ?

What are you talking about here exactly? Be specific.

You wasted your time with this strawman argument. You should be embarrassed. Nowhere did I say anything about us having literal mansions. Good grief.
As I said, it is the example of how truth is revealed by the mind of Christ, as opposed to the limited discernment that the natural mind generates, whereby fiction is delivered, and then becomes doctrinated by false authorities, so as to be truth.

You can give examples of what you're talking about if you want, but don't try to lump me in with what other people believe. Find out what I believe first before making assumptions.

Wow. Quoting yourself? You are an arrogant person and you need to humble yourself.
Why not!! God gave to me those words.Therefore I can quote Him through myself if I want!!

LOL. You have no self awareness. Anyone who quotes himself is clearly full of himself. Humble yourself.

 

[ewq1938]

Question:
After Jesus ate the food, did Jesus swallow the (dead) food, and therefore sought the need for bathroom facillities in a few hours???

LOL, you are being ridiculous and it discredits the weird position you hold. Of course he ate it.

Question:
Since all the blood of Jesus flowed/drained out of His mortal body on the cross, does Jesus now have NEW Immortal Blood in His veins?
If Jesus does have New blood in his Eternally Immortal New body, is it still required of him to eat DEAD food and to breathe Oxygenated Air? Or could it simply be that Jesus does not have any blood at all?
You do realize, with the dead food scenario, you just brought DEATH back into your picture of Eternity!! Rev. 21:4

Since Jesus is NOW Eternally Immortal in Heaven, and we shall be Eternally Immortal also, why do you perceive that Jesus and ourselves shall require nourishment from dead food, or any other kind of food, to STAY ALIVE in order to remain Eternally Immortal??

All food is dead food so calling it that means nothing. The facts are that for some reason immortals can eat. I doubt they need to eat but maybe they do, who knows. The bible also speaks of Jesus drinking wine in the coming kingdom so they also drink alcohol.

And you think that I have problems with my understanding??? LOL!

Like chewing food but not swallowing? You think that's sound interpretation?

 

[Earburner]

Do you want to go over the false doctrine again, about how everyone has been given an eternal soul ?

@Spiritual Israelite asked:
"What are you talking about here exactly? Be specific."
@Earburner replied:
In post #110 I had been pointing out through scripture, that the false belief about God giving man an Eternal living soul directly opposes the words in Gen. 2:7, that "man became a living soul" through "the breath of life", which is Oxygenated AIR.
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
My three conclusions in post #110 are:
1. no one has ever been given an eternal soul, but rather have become a [mortal] living soul, and

2. no one under the OC ever received the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit until after the crucifixion of Christ,

3. the symbolic 144,000 were of OC Israel.
NEVER is it that the 144k should be understood to take place under the NC, or in the far future.

 

[Earburner]

LOL, you are being ridiculous and it discredits the weird position you hold. Of course he ate it.

It's too bad that you don't know how to be open minded in Christ. Stay with your many many rigid religious church doctrines of men. They are all generated for your choice. Many are called Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostal, Mormons etc., etc.

All food is dead food so calling it that means nothing. The facts are that for some reason immortals can eat. I doubt they need to eat but maybe they do, who knows. The bible also speaks of Jesus drinking wine in the coming kingdom so they also drink alcohol.

My point is many believe that in the literal NHNE, that will be exactly the case. Since all of such believe that Immortal people will be eating dead food, DEATH will have NOT been made to be "no more" at all!!

Like chewing food but not swallowing? You think that's sound interpretation?

If you have the alternative, that the "piece of fish" that Jesus ate, dispersed and disappeared within His Immortal body, as much as the "two fishes" appeared to be more for the many, then I shall say that both are a miracle!!

 

[ewq1938]

It's too bad that you don't know how to be open minded in Christ. Stay with your many many rigid religious church doctrines of men.

Denying this weird eat but not swallow doctrine is hardly a "rigid religious church doctrines of men". In fact, your belief on this IS religious church doctrines of men.

My point is many believe that in the literal NHNE, that will be exactly the case. Since all of such believe that Immortal people will be eating dead food,

YOU eat "dead food" so complaining like this is pure hypocrisy.

DEATH will have NOT been made to be "no more" at all!!

The leaves are medicine and those leaves were alive before that so no more death is obviously about humans not leaves or grass etc, just like the rest of sorrow and tears etc.

If you have the alternative, that the "piece of fish" that Jesus ate, dispersed and disappeared within His Immortal body, as much as the "two fishes" appeared to be more for the many, then I shall say that both are a miracle!!

Why change and deny human eating?? He ate food including animal flesh. It's normal. It is WEIRD to argue that he did not swallow, or that food magically disappeared in his body and was not processed normally through the stomach and digestion.

 

[Earburner]

Why change and deny human eating?? He ate food including animal flesh. It's normal. It is WEIRD to argue that he did not swallow, or that food magically disappeared in his body and was not processed normally through the stomach and digestion.

So then, according to your understanding, about the process of digesting "dead" food through the stomach and digestion system, we should conclude that in the New Earth, there will be sewage plants and septic systems for the sanitary means of disposing mortal "WASTE", that was excreted by billions of Eternally living Immortal people??

That's not God's idea or mine, of how having Immortality with Eternal Life works, forever and ever.

 

[Earburner]

The bible also speaks of Jesus drinking wine in the coming kingdom so they also drink alcohol.

When one reads John 3:3-8, we will understand by God's Holy Spirit that in order for us to enter into the KoG, we MUST be born again of/by the Holy Spirit. In so doing, the reality of God the Father and God the Son PROMISE to take up residence WITHIN US, as their permanent "ABODE". John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.
So then, about the Lord drinking wine with us in the KoG, can you figure it out WHEN that takes place?
By His Holy Spirit you can know, IF YOU remove yourself from out under the teachings of men!
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but [rather] in the power [authority] of God.

 

[rwb]

When one reads John 3:3-8, we will understand by God's Holy Spirit that in order for us to enter into the KoG, we MUST be born again of/by the Holy Spirit. In so doing, the reality of God the Father and God the Son PROMISE to take up residence WITHIN US, as their permanent "ABODE". John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.
So then, about the Lord drinking wine with us in the KoG, can you figure it out WHEN that takes place?
By His Holy Spirit you can know, IF YOU remove yourself from out under the teachings of men!
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but [rather] in the power [authority] of God.

Why must man be born again of the Spirit to both know and enter the Kingdom of God Earburner? Why does Christ say we must be born AGAIN? Since Christ is not speaking of physical re-birth, obviously to be born AGAIN of the HS, there must have been a time when the Holy Spirit was in man, and the fact that we must be born again of the Spirit, means at some point the HS was once in man and departed from them when they disobeyed God and brought sin and death through sin upon all mankind. Man is from the fall born physically with natural spirit that gives every living breathing creature upon the earth physical life. Natural spirit is of this world and cannot know or enter the Kingdom of God, because mankind may only enter the Kingdom of God when their natural spirit is quickened to life AGAIN, as man was created in the beginning, through the Spirit of Christ in them.

 

[rwb]

When one reads John 3:3-8, we will understand by God's Holy Spirit that in order for us to enter into the KoG, we MUST be born again of/by the Holy Spirit. In so doing, the reality of God the Father and God the Son PROMISE to take up residence WITHIN US, as their permanent "ABODE". John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.
So then, about the Lord drinking wine with us in the KoG, can you figure it out WHEN that takes place?
By His Holy Spirit you can know, IF YOU remove yourself from out under the teachings of men!
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but [rather] in the power [authority] of God.

When Christ comes again and all of creation is made new, like it was at creation, why do you doubt the new heaven and new earth shall be exactly as it was in the beginning when God created all things? But then there will be no death because the curse will be removed, and there shall be no more sin or death.

 

[Earburner]

When Christ comes again and all of creation is made new, like it was at creation, why do you doubt the new heaven and new earth shall be exactly as it was in the beginning when God created all things? But then there will be no death because the curse will be removed, and there shall be no more sin or death.

NO! Not like it WAS at the first creation.
Most do not understand what the New is!!

It's all about WE who ARE the NEW CREATURES (not made over, enhanced or refurbished) but rather an entirely NEW Perfect creation, having Eternal Life IN IMMORTALITY, "whereIN [within] dwelleth [God's] Righteousness."
2 Peter 3
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Question:
WHERE does God desire to permanently indwell, with His Righteousness??
Ans. John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.

Did you do the Strong's word study about the word "mansion" and "abode"?
Compare-
G3438- mansions- John 14:3
G3438- abode- John14:23

We ARE NOT going to a mansion!!
WE ARE the mansions!!