The only source of life and the fallacy of a 'dead' human spirit being 'quickened from death'

[Zao is life]

Unfortunately in the religiosity of your ways, you over speak and over produce verifiable scripture to prove your point so much so, that it is a virtual chore to listen to you.
Try to be more brief and to the point. Lose the religious overtones of how one believes in the written word, as opposed to those who Worship the written word.

By the way, I agree to most what you say about "the life of the flesh is in the blood".
However that life of the flesh IS Oxygenated Air. If you doubt that, then be sure to ask a person in the medical field. I'm sure they will be able to fully explain it to you.

As for Moses, well as you know, "knowledge [has] increased", and from this side of that fence, he really was dumb as a rock! No offense to him and his time zone.

Your own arguments betray the fact that you worship science. I worship God. The written Word is given by God for us to learn of Him.

 

[Button]

From the first post:
Born of the Spirit Genesis 1:1 & 26-27, and Genesis 2:7:

Created: When YHVH God created [bara] man,

Formed: He formed [yatsar] man of the dust of the ground; and

Breathed: breathed (naphach) into his nostrils the breath (nshamah) of life (chay); and

Became: the man became [H1961 haya] a living [chay] soul (nephesh).



God breathed,God's breath, was breathed into Adam. And he became a living soul.

Ecclesiastes says about humans mortal death,
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

I think when Gods living breath returns to God,having made mortal flesh a living soul, life is eternal.
Because the soul that is of God is what gives life to humans.

 

[Earburner]

The creature does not exist of itself.

I never said that it did. For all living souls that God initially Created, He also Created the mortal living cells for each and their own process of procreation.

 

[Earburner]

Your own arguments betray the fact that you worship science. I worship God. The written Word is given by God for us to learn of Him.

Okay, if you say so! Earth Science, Biology and Chemistry are nothing more than physical revelations of the miracles of God's creation in the micro, that is revealed in each and every living cell of all flesh, plants etc.
In the essence of God's whole physical creation, the sciences that I mentioned actually Glorify the work of His Being.

Foolish as you may think of what science is, I give NO credit to "science" to create anything at all!
As I have said, if anything it reveals Him more so as the Creator, to those who are born again by His Holy Spirit.
So, please be cautious that "you don't throw the baby out with that bath water". God wanted us to subdue the earth, and what better way to do that, than to know how wonderfully it is made by Him!

It is God who created and established the physicals laws of this Earth and it's atmosphere, aka the first heaven.

If Moses was to be alive in this day and age, he would be extremely pleased and ecstatic to learn what "the breath of life" actually is, Oxygenated air!

 

[Earburner]

From the first post:
Born of the Spirit Genesis 1:1 & 26-27, and Genesis 2:7:

Created: When YHVH God created [bara] man,

Formed: He formed [yatsar] man of the dust of the ground; and

Breathed: breathed (naphach) into his nostrils the breath (nshamah) of life (chay); and

Became: the man became [H1961 haya] a living [chay] soul (nephesh).



God breathed,God's breath, was breathed into Adam. And he became a living soul.

Ecclesiastes says about humans mortal death,
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

I think when Gods living breath returns to God,having made mortal flesh a living soul, life is eternal.
Because the soul that is of God is what gives life to humans.

Jesus said that God the Father is a Spirit, not a soul.
John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Button]

Jesus said that God the Father is a Spirit, not a soul.
John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Yes. God is a Spirit. A Holy Spirit.
Can God be in error when God breathed into Adam's nostrils so that Adam became a living soul?

Where does God's breath go after it leaves man?

 

[Zao is life]

God initially Created, He also Created the mortal living cells for each and their own process of procreation.

Living cells are all continually sustained by Christ and in Christ. The natural state of matter is not ordered. The Word of God is what causes it to remain ordered.

 

[Zao is life]

From the first post:
Born of the Spirit Genesis 1:1 & 26-27, and Genesis 2:7:

Created: When YHVH God created [bara] man,

Formed: He formed [yatsar] man of the dust of the ground; and

Breathed: breathed (naphach) into his nostrils the breath (nshamah) of life (chay); and

Became: the man became [H1961 haya] a living [chay] soul (nephesh).



God breathed,God's breath, was breathed into Adam. And he became a living soul.

Ecclesiastes says about humans mortal death,
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

Yes.

I think when Gods living breath returns to God,having made mortal flesh a living soul, life is eternal.
Because the soul that is of God is what gives life to humans.

You're almost there, but not quite.

Life is a noun.
Living | alive is a verb.

Zoe (life) is a noun and refers to life itself which is of God and exists in God and is given by God alone.

Zao (living| alive) is a verb expressing actively being alive (the living [zao] God possesses life [zoe] in Himself).

Life [zoe] - which only God possesses in Himself - is eternal - whether or not God breathes that life into a created being - because God is life and all life is in God.

No created thing possesses life [zoe] in itself. Only to the Son of God - the Man Jesus Christ - begotten not created - has it been given by God to possess life [zoe] in Himself.

Jesus possessed life [zoe] in Himself and was living | alive [zao] until He died.

For three days He was not alive [zao] - but He rose again from the dead because He still possessed life [zoe] in Himself - and after His ascension He said:

"Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that is alive / that liveth [zao], and was dead; and, behold, I am alive [zao] to the ages of the ages, Amen; and I have the keys of hades and of death." (Revelation 1:17-18).

He did not say: "I have life [zoe] to the ages of the ages - He always did have life [zoe] because He possesses life [zoe] in Himself.

After He rose from the dead the angels standing beside the entrance of the empty tomb said:

Why seek ye the living [zao] among the dead? He is not here, but is risen [egeiro]: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee?" (Luke 24:5-6).

THE BIBLE EXPLICITLY GIVES THE REASON CHRIST DIED AND ROSE AGAIN:

"For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi], and lived again [anazao], so that he may be the Lord of both the dead [nekros] and living [zao: those who are alive, not dead]." (Romans 14:9).

Notice Paul did not only say, "For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi] - he added this:

"and lived again [anazao].

Now go back to Genesis again:

God created Adam as a creature comprised of body & soul and breathed the breath of life [zoe] into his soul - so that Adam could become a living [zao] being / soul who was immortal - alive | living [zao] forever.

When Adam disobeyed the Word of God in favor of the "You will NOT surely die" lie - that is when living | being alive [zao] forever (immortal) became "until you die" for Adam

- because the source of being alive [zao] forever (immortal) is the life [zoe] of God given to the soul / flesh: "Christ in you, the hope of (future, resurrected, immortal), glory".

And this is the record, that God has given to us everlasting life, [zoe aionios]

- and this life [zoe] is in His Son.

- He who has the Son has (everlasting) life [zoe); he who does not have the Son of God does not have (everlasting) life [zoe] - 1 John 5:11-12.

(1) Eternal life [zoe] (noun); and
(2) Immortality - being alive [zao] (verb) forever

- is now in the last Adam - because:

- He IS the Word of God in whom is life [zoe] (John 1:4),
- who became flesh (John 1:14),
- died for our sins, and

- therefore was not living | alive [zao] for three days and nights

- but had life [zoe] in Himself, and therefore

- rose again bodily from the dead
- and is now alive [zao] to the ages of the ages (forevermore) because:
- as the Father has life [zoe] in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life [zoe] in Himself (John 5:26), and therefore

- He (Jesus) IS THE resurrection of the body from the dead [o' anastasis]
- AND the life [zoe] (John 11:25),

- who alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16),

- so that whoever believes in Him will live [zao] forever (be immortal) following the resurrection from the dead)

- even though we die (John 11:25).

Life is a noun.
Living | alive is a verb.

 

[Button]

Yes.



You're almost there, but not quite.

Life is a noun.
Living | alive is a verb.

Zoe (life) is a noun and refers to life itself which is of God and exists in God and is given by God alone.

Zao (living| alive) is a verb expressing actively being alive (the living [zao] God possesses life [zoe] in Himself).

Life [zoe] - which only God possesses in Himself - is eternal - whether or not God breathes that life into a created being - because God is life and all life is in God.

No created thing possesses life [zoe] in itself. Only to the Son of God - the Man Jesus Christ - begotten not created - has it been given by God to possess life [zoe] in Himself.

Jesus possessed life [zoe] in Himself and was living | alive [zao] until He died.

For three days He was not alive [zao] - but He rose again from the dead because He still possessed life [zoe] in Himself - and after His ascension He said:

"Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that is alive / that liveth [zao], and was dead; and, behold, I am alive [zao] to the ages of the ages, Amen; and I have the keys of hades and of death." (Revelation 1:17-18).

He did not say: "I have life [zoe] to the ages of the ages - He always did have life [zoe] because He possesses life [zoe] in Himself.

After He rose from the dead the angels standing beside the entrance of the empty tomb said:

Why seek ye the living [zao] among the dead? He is not here, but is risen [egeiro]: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee?" (Luke 24:5-6).

THE BIBLE EXPLICITLY GIVES THE REASON CHRIST DIED AND ROSE AGAIN:

"For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi], and lived again [anazao], so that he may be the Lord of both the dead [nekros] and living [zao: those who are alive, not dead]." (Romans 14:9).

Notice Paul did not only say, "For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi] - he added this:

"and lived again [anazao].

Now go back to Genesis again:

God created Adam as a creature comprised of body & soul and breathed the breath of life [zoe] into his soul - so that Adam could become a living [zao] being / soul who was immortal - alive | living [zao] forever.

When Adam disobeyed the Word of God in favor of the "You will NOT surely die" lie - that is when living | being alive [zao] forever (immortal) became "until you die" for Adam

- because the source of being alive [zao] forever (immortal) is the life [zoe] of God given to the soul / flesh: "Christ in you, the hope of (future, resurrected, immortal), glory".

And this is the record, that God has given to us everlasting life, [zoe aionios]

- and this life [zoe] is in His Son.

- He who has the Son has (everlasting) life [zoe); he who does not have the Son of God does not have (everlasting) life [zoe] - 1 John 5:11-12.

(1) Eternal life [zoe] (noun); and
(2) Immortality - being alive [zao] (verb) forever

- is now in the last Adam - because:

- He IS the Word of God in whom is life [zoe] (John 1:4),
- who became flesh (John 1:14),
- died for our sins, and

- therefore was not living | alive [zao] for three days and nights

- but had life [zoe] in Himself, and therefore

- rose again bodily from the dead
- and is now alive [zao] to the ages of the ages (forevermore) because:
- as the Father has life [zoe] in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life [zoe] in Himself (John 5:26), and therefore

- He (Jesus) IS THE resurrection of the body from the dead [o' anastasis]
- AND the life [zoe] (John 11:25),

- who alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16),

- so that whoever believes in Him will live [zao] forever (be immortal) following the resurrection from the dead)

- even though we die (John 11:25).

Life is a noun.
Living | alive is a verb.

That's what I said.

Just with less words.

 

[Zao is life]

I think when Gods living breath returns to God,having made mortal flesh a living soul, life is eternal.
That's what I said.

Just with less words.

Not what you said though.

You said

I think when Gods living breath returns to God, having made mortal flesh a living soul, life is eternal.

Which is confusing and makes no sense - and is not even accurate:

breath of life [zoe] not "living [zao] breath" for starters. (The living [zao] God who has life [zoe] in Himself breathed the breath of life [zoe] into Adam).

You said "life is eternal":

"when Gods living [zao] breath returns to God, having made mortal flesh a living [zao] soul,.... life is eternal.

But eternal life [zoe aionios] is in God alone (He alone possesses eternal life) - not Adam. Eternal life [zoe] is the river of life / tree of life that enables the flesh to be a soul that is living | alive [zao].

So for everyone else's sake I'm glad I made it clear again - because you completely conflated the two:

Though we may still be living [zao] bodily now, our bodies will eventually die. We are not now immortal - and when the body is not there, then there is nothing for God to enable to live [zao] by breathing the breath of life [zoe] into it. The spirit of life [zoe] returns to the God who gave it when the body dies.

If you understand this then you will begin to understand why the Word of God in Whom is life [zoe] needed to become flesh and live [zao] in a body and die and rise again, and become alive [zao] forever in order to save us from eternal death.

The penalty for our sin also needed to be paid - and was paid by Him.

 

[Earburner]

What God at creation gave to man was ETERNAL spiritual life by breathing Himself into them, that together with body created from dust of the earth became "living souls." The body of dust was not of itself eternal or immortal! But man could have lived forever IF they had not disobeyed God.

Such foul thinking is from "the wisdom of men" in church-ianity. Man was NEVER created by God HAVING Eternal life or eternal existence of any kind. A&E were nothing more than innocent mortal living souls of flesh and blood.

The evil LIE of church-ianity is: "God at creation gave to man ETERNAL spiritual life by breathing Himself into them, that together with body created from dust of the earth became "living souls."

Did you forget, or do you not know that A&E were briefly laying on the ground, physically created and perfect, but having no conscious thought whatsoever?
Gen. 2[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground [first], and [then] breathed into his nostrils "the breath of life" [Oxygenated air]; and man became a living soul.
What?? Did God create two dead human beings? Absolutely not!

In the day of God's creation of each, before "the breath of life" was operative and functional within them, on the cellular level A&E WERE physically ALIVE, but without consciousness, and only for a brief amount of minutes.
Without the immediate infilling of their lungs with the breath of life, Oxygenated air, all the living cells within them, that God had Created, would have immediately starved and then die.
But....that was not the case, because God wasted no time in seeing to it that his New Creation would become autonomously alive and self sufficient.

In the time of A&E's creation, both were teaming with millions and millions of DIFFERENT living cells, within the make up of their many different internal organs, and that which is outwardly, all BEGGING and waiting..... for what?
Ans. Oxygenated air, aka "the breath of life" (atoms of Oxygen), to be carried to each living cell by the flow of blood cells, so that all the different living cells, in the millions, COULD CONTINUE to live!!

 

[Earburner]

Living cells are all continually sustained by Christ and in Christ. The natural state of matter is not ordered. The Word of God is what causes it to remain ordered.

Sorry that you misquoted me! In so doing you made your statement to sound more believable.
Here is what I had said:
For all living souls that God initially Created, He also Created the mortal living cells for each and their own process of procreation.

So then, all of God's Creation of this physical world and all that's in it, began at the "atomic level", of which He also created.

From that point, whereby the naked eye cannot see the invisible "atoms" that God created, science knows at least that much. Through our weak, limited mortal minds, man is attempting to enter into the invisible world of God's Eternity, of which by our mortal minds we cannot know, except that which He chooses to reveal to us. Gen. 3[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Yes! God Himself is the Eternal source of all that He created, including Oxygenated air.

 

[Earburner]

Yes. God is a Spirit. A Holy Spirit.
Can God be in error when God breathed into Adam's nostrils so that Adam became a living soul?

Where does God's breath go after it leaves man?

Into the atmosphere!

 

[rwb]

Yes. God is a Spirit. A Holy Spirit.
Can God be in error when God breathed into Adam's nostrils so that Adam became a living soul?

Where does God's breath go after it leaves man?

I believe the breath of God breathed into man comes through spirit - which is defined: from G4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:—ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

When breath (spirit) entered the body of dust man became a living soul - which is defined: from G5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew H5315, H7307 and H2416):—heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

The lump of clay of which man without breath (spirit) was in the beginning, possessed the Holy Spirit through the breath of God, and coming to life, having the ability to think and reason with mental disposition, as long as breath remains in the body, man is a living soul (mind, heart, soul).

According to Scripture, when breath that is spirit in man leaves our body of flesh, it returns to God who gave it. While our body of flesh returns to the dust of the earth from which it was.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

At death all who have died in Christ the spirit returns to God in heaven and continues to be living soul. But those who die in unbelief the spirit that returns to God is in silence and darkness no longer living souls.

 

[Button]

I believe the breath of God breathed into man comes through spirit - which is defined: from G4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:—ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

When breath (spirit) entered the body of dust man became a living soul - which is defined: from G5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew H5315, H7307 and H2416):—heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

The lump of clay of which man without breath (spirit) was in the beginning, possessed the Holy Spirit through the breath of God, and coming to life, having the ability to think and reason with mental disposition, as long as breath remains in the body, man is a living soul (mind, heart, soul).

According to Scripture, when breath that is spirit in man leaves our body of flesh, it returns to God who gave it. While our body of flesh returns to the dust of the earth from which it was.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

At death all who have died in Christ the spirit returns to God in heaven and continues to be living soul. But those who die in unbelief the spirit that returns to God is in silence and darkness no longer living souls.

I believe man was made in the image and like 3ss of God. God breathed into his nostrils and man, the image and likeness of Creator God,became a living soul.

All scripture,the words of God,are God breathed.

 

[Button]

Into the atmosphere!

Back to God.
Everything that is,is of God.

 

[rwb]

I believe man was made in the image and like 3ss of God. God breathed into his nostrils and man, the image and likeness of Creator God,became a living soul.

All scripture,the words of God,are God breathed.

I agree! How was man the likeness and image of God? We know it is not through his body of clay because God is Spirit. What part of man was made the likeness and image of God if not through the Spirit breath of life that God breathed into them?

 

[Earburner]

I believe the breath of God breathed into man comes through spirit - which is defined: from G4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:—ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

When breath (spirit) entered the body of dust man became a living soul - which is defined: from G5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew H5315, H7307 and H2416):—heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

The lump of clay of which man without breath (spirit) was in the beginning, possessed the Holy Spirit through the breath of God, and coming to life, having the ability to think and reason with mental disposition, as long as breath remains in the body, man is a living soul (mind, heart, soul).

According to Scripture, when breath that is spirit in man leaves our body of flesh, it returns to God who gave it. While our body of flesh returns to the dust of the earth from which it was.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

At death all who have died in Christ the spirit returns to God in heaven and continues to be living soul. But those who die in unbelief the spirit that returns to God is in silence and darkness no longer living souls.

Please, for all of what you have imagined and fabricated in describing a "soul", and the whereabouts of it's future, whether it goes back to God, or into some dark corner in God's eternity, it is apparent that you are making God ultimately responsible for multitudes of LOST unsaved "souls" that have Eternal life/existence, and therefore He is to watch over and manage them forever.
However, from my understanding, those who are apart from living in Jesus, there is no such thing as any person having an eternal soul, or has eternal existence of any kind and therefore "the breath of life", aka Oxygenated air goes back to the atmosphere upon mortal death.

Sorry, but apart from that, I don't have any stories to tell or any fabrications to make up.
But, one thing I do know, I am getting some really good stuff here for writing a Scifi-Fantasy.

 

[Button]

I agree! How was man the likeness and image of God? We know it is not through his body of clay because God is Spirit. What part of man was made the likeness and image of God if not through the Spirit breath of life that God breathed into them?

Yes. I agree.

 

[rwb]

Please, for all of what you have imagined and fabricated in describing a "soul", and the whereabouts of it's future, whether it goes back to God, or into some dark corner in God's eternity, it is apparent that you are making God ultimately responsible for multitudes of LOST unsaved "souls" that have Eternal life/existence, and therefore He is to watch over and manage them forever.
However, from my understanding, those who are apart from living in Jesus, there is no such thing as any person having an eternal soul, or has eternal existence of any kind and therefore "the breath of life", aka Oxygenated air goes back to the atmosphere upon mortal death.

Sorry, but apart from that, I don't have any stories to tell or any fabrications to make up.
But, one thing I do know, I am getting some really good stuff here for writing a Scifi-Fantasy.

The Bible containing the word of Christ must appear a fantastic work of fiction to you! The fact that man who has been born again HAS eternal life through the Spirit of Christ in us, is not what I say it's what Christ has promised! If this eternal life is not found in the spirit of man, where can it be found since our physical flesh is destined to DIE? It's time for you to get off your high horse saying all Christians are deceived by "the religion of church-ianity" except for you, and admit that you, nor any other human has perfect understanding.