"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[GodsGrace]

Don't you know what the core foundation is upon which the new covenant stands? It addresses your main point!
Who is dishonest? I asked you how many of Jesus commands you even tried to follow, you responded 'All of them'
I then gave you a few examples, you then said you weren't Jesus and I was deflecting off the subject matter. So obviously you had not been honest had you!
The discussion btw, was whether you maintained your salvation by obeying the TC, something you quickly veered away from, once you were shown what obedience to them entails

Let's try again saved:

WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH ALONE.

IF WE WANT TO REMAIN SAVED....
WE MUST OBEY GOD.

Is that simple enough for ya?

And I don't come on this forum to hear
I SAID
YOU SAID

If you have scripture you care to discuss, fine...
otherwise you can stop posting to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's a simple and typical type question. Let me say it again in a different way.

You preach we must obey commands, like the 10Cs and if you violate just one of them, do you think your salvation is in jeopardy? And if not, then why not?

Please post where I said what you stated above.

You stated:

"You preach we must obey commands, like the 10Cs and if you violate just one of them, do you think your salvation is in jeopardy?"


Please give the post number where I stated that if we violate just one commandment our salvation is in jeapardy.


Waiting...

 

[XtraPercept]

I have never done that.

You are not a trinitarian?

No I don't. That's more lies from you.

You know that hell is a lie?

How do you know what I have done?

By how you use your words.

Yet more insults. You have still not shown me where, in which posts in this thread, I have written anything that matches your accusations.

I have only written plainly against lies. Do you understand what vitriol is?

Do you comprehend the foundations of your beliefs? I contend that you do not or you could argue logically in support of what you say instead of claiming I insult you for challenging what you believe.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Let's try again saved:

WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH ALONE.

IF WE WANT TO REMAIN SAVED....
WE MUST OBEY GOD.

Is that simple enough for ya?

And I don't come on this forum to hear
I SAID
YOU SAID

If you have scripture you care to discuss, fine...
otherwise you can stop posting to me.

According to you, if we want to remain justified/saved we must obey the TC. In other words, we must obey what the bible terms the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. I could ask how well we must obey them, for we all transgress that law

 

[saved by grace 101]

Let's try again saved:

WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH ALONE.

IF WE WANT TO REMAIN SAVED....
WE MUST OBEY GOD.

Is that simple enough for ya?

And I don't come on this forum to hear
I SAID
YOU SAID

If you have scripture you care to discuss, fine...
otherwise you can stop posting to me.

OK, I will post:
The power of sin is the law1Cor15:56 the legally binding law with the power to condemn
What happens if you remove somethings power? It must weaken.
Therefore:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14

I have one question for you, and it relates to the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands.
If the believer does not live their life under a justification of obeying the law, why do they not have a licence to sin?

 

[XtraPercept]

According to you, if we want to remain justified/saved we must obey the TC.

If justified/saved, then law kept by nature.

 

[GodsGrace]

The second portion explains your confusion regarding the first expression.

You do not understand the ideas of descendance and authority and leadership as they spring from the Spirit.

That's why you don't even use the right Name.

Whatever you say XtraPercept

HOWEVER,

I did NOT post those words you quoted.

Could you please tell me the post number and the exact place where you've gotten those words from?

I'm talking about this:

GodsGrace said:
Jesus is the true God.

The LORD or Yahweh,


Thanks.

 

[saved by grace 101]

If justified/saved, then law kept by nature.

You will perfectly obey the law?

 

[keithr]

You are not a trinitarian?

No, I am not.

You know that hell is a lie?

I know that eternal torment/torture is a lie. Romans 6:23 WEB

(23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

By how you use your words.

You clearly misunderstand and make wrong assumptions.

I have only written plainly against lies. Do you understand what vitriol is?

A disctionary says, "speech, writing, etc, displaying rancour (malicious resentfulness or hostility; spite), vituperation (verbal abuse or castigation; violent denunciation or condemnation), or bitterness.

You should not be discussing God's Word using vitriol.

Do you comprehend the foundations of your beliefs?

Yes.

I contend that you do not or you could argue logically in support of what you say instead of claiming I insult you for challenging what you believe.

I have argued logically, and quoted many supporting Scriptures. You haven't challenged what I believe; you've accused me of believing things that I don't, without quoting anything that I've written that could have possibly made you think that I believe those things.

I've wasted more than enough time on this discussion. As I said, I won't reply to you anymore.

 

[GodsGrace]

According to you, if we want to remain justified/saved we must obey the TC. In other words, we must obey what the bible terms the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. I could ask how well we must obey them, for we all transgress that law

Wow.
Yeah.

THE LAW WAS ABOLISHED 2 THOUSAND YEARS AGO.

WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

You keep posting about the Law that kills.

YES. THE LAW KILLS.

Are you able to move forward?

Jesus left us with commands.

ARE WE SUPPOSED TO OBEY THOSE COMMANDS?
Or do THEY also kill?


John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


JESUS said that IF we love Him we will keep His commandments.

Which commandments do you believe JESUS is speaking of?

 

[saved by grace 101]

Wow.
Yeah.

THE LAW WAS ABOLISHED 2 THOUSAND YEARS AGO.

WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

You keep posting about the Law that kills.

YES. THE LAW KILLS.

Are you able to move forward?

Jesus left us with commands.

ARE WE SUPPOSED TO OBEY THOSE COMMANDS?
Or do THEY also kill?


John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


JESUS said that IF we love Him we will keep His commandments.

Which commandments do you believe JESUS is speaking of?

Well you do not even try and obey many of them do you, neither has any christian I have ever met in over fifty years!
Paul's way is much better:
Carry each others burdens(love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal6:2

 

[saved by grace 101]

Wow.
Yeah.

THE LAW WAS ABOLISHED 2 THOUSAND YEARS AGO.

WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

You keep posting about the Law that kills.

YES. THE LAW KILLS.

Are you able to move forward?

Jesus left us with commands.

ARE WE SUPPOSED TO OBEY THOSE COMMANDS?
Or do THEY also kill?


John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


JESUS said that IF we love Him we will keep His commandments.

Which commandments do you believe JESUS is speaking of?

And BTW, what is written in the moral law does not have to be abolished if you have no righteousness of obeying it. Its all in the new covenant

 

[XtraPercept]

You clearly misunderstand and make wrong assumptions.

I can't even fix the stupid quote in my embarassment.

You are correct @keithr, I mistook you for a trinitarian hellfire preacher.

I have been on the forums too long and among too many postings and I have thus diminished the veracity of my own testimony.

You have my sincerest apologies.

I will step back for a while.

 

[amigo de christo]

I had replied to 'amigo de christo' writing:

The verses you quote from Revelation 1 do not mention "all them" throwing crowns at Jesus' feet. It just says that John fell at Jesus' feet. Revelation 1 is therefore unrelated to what he wrote!

You fell for the agenda of men . And a price you will surely pay that all the worlds money
cannot save one from .
My advice keither , is we return to childlike faith , IF EVER ye had it to begin with .
BELEIVE what is written . whether or not you understand .
Whether or not one understands , UNDERSTAND THIS , if what one learns twists and omits
what is already written , Its time to understand it came of the darkness and hearts of lustful men
NOT GOD . DO not let them lie to you
and act as though the KJV or other older bibles lack things that their mighty mighty scholars have come to save us from .
THEY LIE to us all and they have been for a long long time . ON LY now at the end its getting much worse and fast too .

 

[GodsGrace]

OK, I will post:
The power of sin is the law1Cor15:56 the legally binding law with the power to condemn

This is a salvation issue and I'm always happy to discuss salvation issues.
But I ask:
1. Do not put words into my mouth.
2. Please use scripture. Posting a verse is NOT using scripture.

You posted 1 Cor 15:56 am I supposed to know the NT by heart?

I'll post it for you this time:

1 Corinthians 15:56
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

Again saved...you're speaking about THE LAW.
The LAW was abolished at the time of Jesus.
We are now under grace and not under Law.

There were 3 types of Law in the Old Testament.
THE CIVIL LAW
THE CEREMONIAL LAW
THE MORAL LAW

The Civil Law and the Ceremonial Law have been abolished.
The Moral Law will never be abolished because it is everlasting and eternal.

You brought up the New Covenant.
In the Mosaic Covenant God gave instructions as to how the Israelites were to live and honor and obey God.
He gave them the 10 Commandments and many other rules which were covered by the other two types of Law.

The Law kills, as you've stated.
The Israelites could not keep the law...any of the Laws, as witnessed by the forming of the golden calf, because they did not have the Holy Spirit...He was EXTERNAL to them.

But now...we do have the Holy Spirit indwelling in us and so we are empowered to obey God's commandments.

Romans 6:16
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?


We're either a slave of God or a slave of satan.

If we want to be saved and be born again, we must:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God.


Do you agree so far?

What happens if you remove somethings power? It must weaken.
Therefore:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14

Romans 6:14 OK Paul is saying that sin will no longer be our master -

But we must also read the verses surrounding it:

Romans 6:11-17
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,


We read that:
We are dead to sin. verse 11
We are alive to God IN JESUS. verse 13
We are not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies. verse 13
We are to present ourselves to God verse 13
Sin no longer has a hold on us because we are not under The Law verse 14
Should we sin because we are under grace? verse 15
MAY IT NEVER BE! verse 15
If we present ourselves to God we will obey resulting in righteousness. verse 16
We have become obedient from the heart. verse 17

I have one question for you, and it relates to the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands.
If the believer does not live their life under a justification of obeying the law, why do they not have a licence to sin?

Every single Covenant has the condition of obeying God,,,beginning with the Edenic Covenant.
The difference between the Mosaic and the New is what I've already stated.
In the Mosaic we did not have THE POWER to obey...
In the NC we do.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well you do not even try and obey many of them do you, neither has any christian I have ever met in over fifty years!

Why must you get personal?
How do YOU know what I do or don't do?

Paul's way is much better:
Carry each others burdens(love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal6:2

What's the difference?
Does Paul tell us we can sin and live life the way we wish to?

 

[GodsGrace]

I can't even fix the stupid quote in my embarassment.

You are correct @keithr, I mistook you for a trinitarian hellfire preacher.

I have been on the forums too long and among too many postings and I have thus diminished the veracity of my own testimony.

You have my sincerest apologies.

I will step back for a while.

I'm the Trinitarian XP.
Keithr believes something I've never even heard of before.

Which shows that some claim to be Christian,
but they then proceed to build their very own version of Christianity.....
which is not Christianity but some other religion.

 

[GodsGrace]

And BTW, what is written in the moral law does not have to be abolished if you have no righteousness of obeying it. Its all in the new covenant

Please explain how you understand the New Covenant.
What do you mean by "Paul's way is better".

What did Paul teach that is better...better than WHAT?
Paul taught exactly what Jesus taught and the other writers.

Will try to be back later.

 

[amigo de christo]

This is a salvation issue and I'm always happy to discuss salvation issues.
But I ask:
1. Do not put words into my mouth.
2. Please use scripture. Posting a verse is NOT using scripture.

You posted 1 Cor 15:56 am I supposed to know the NT by heart?

I'll post it for you this time:

1 Corinthians 15:56
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

Again saved...you're speaking about THE LAW.
The LAW was abolished at the time of Jesus.
We are now under grace and not under Law.

There were 3 types of Law in the Old Testament.
THE CIVIL LAW
THE CEREMONIAL LAW
THE MORAL LAW

The Civil Law and the Ceremonial Law have been abolished.
The Moral Law will never be abolished because it is everlasting and eternal.

You brought up the New Covenant.
In the Mosaic Covenant God gave instructions as to how the Israelites were to live and honor and obey God.
He gave them the 10 Commandments and many other rules which were covered by the other two types of Law.

The Law kills, as you've stated.
The Israelites could not keep the law...any of the Laws, as witnessed by the forming of the golden calf, because they did not have the Holy Spirit...He was EXTERNAL to them.

But now...we do have the Holy Spirit indwelling in us and so we are empowered to obey God's commandments.

Romans 6:16
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?


We're either a slave of God or a slave of satan.

If we want to be saved and be born again, we must:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God.


Do you agree so far?



Romans 6:14 OK Paul is saying that sin will no longer be our master -

But we must also read the verses surrounding it:

Romans 6:11-17
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,


We read that:
We are dead to sin. verse 11
We are alive to God IN JESUS. verse 13
We are not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies. verse 13
We are to present ourselves to God verse 13
Sin no longer has a hold on us because we are not under The Law verse 14
Should we sin because we are under grace? verse 15
MAY IT NEVER BE! verse 15
If we present ourselves to God we will obey resulting in righteousness. verse 16
We have become obedient from the heart. verse 17


Every single Covenant has the condition of obeying God,,,beginning with the Edenic Covenant.
The difference between the Mosaic and the New is what I've already stated.
In the Mosaic we did not have THE POWER to obey...
In the NC we do.

They have turned JESUS into a minstir of sin . Into a minstir of even unbeleif .
But as you rightly stated
Obediance was key IN EV ERY covenant .
GOD even told the priest , I WILL NOT accept your sacrfices
WHY

cause THEY REBELLED , ELI sons rebelled and ELI did not completely stop them .
GOD has always DESIRED OBEDIANCE
and HE who loves HIM would obey HIM .
THE righteousness of the law WAS NEVER OMI TTED .
JESUS came TO PLANT IT UPON OUR HEARTS , TO SAVE US and TO CHANGE US and GIVE US a whole new heart
That we would LOVE GOD above all . AND THERE IS NO LOVE IN DISOBEDIANCE .
TO LOVE THE LORD THY GOD above all Would not have DENIED obediance to HIM , TO HIS SON .
FOR the HOLY GHOST sheds the LOVE OF GOD , F ROM GOD UPON our hearts .
THAT LOVE LOVETH HIM and thus OBEYS HIM .
Many follow an ecumenical jesus , one that has denied HIM
and made the path to GOD very broad and very sin accepting . BUT THIS COMETH NOT OF GOD
because SIN and UNBELIEF are TRANGRESSION not LOVE . this people has loved a lie
they have loved a lie . And we must do all now to correct them and POINT TO JESUS .

 

[saved by grace 101]

This is a salvation issue and I'm always happy to discuss salvation issues.
But I ask:
1. Do not put words into my mouth.
2. Please use scripture. Posting a verse is NOT using scripture.

You posted 1 Cor 15:56 am I supposed to know the NT by heart?

I'll post it for you this time:

1 Corinthians 15:56
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

Again saved...you're speaking about THE LAW.
The LAW was abolished at the time of Jesus.
We are now under grace and not under Law.

There were 3 types of Law in the Old Testament.
THE CIVIL LAW
THE CEREMONIAL LAW
THE MORAL LAW

The Civil Law and the Ceremonial Law have been abolished.
The Moral Law will never be abolished because it is everlasting and eternal.

You brought up the New Covenant.
In the Mosaic Covenant God gave instructions as to how the Israelites were to live and honor and obey God.
He gave them the 10 Commandments and many other rules which were covered by the other two types of Law.

The Law kills, as you've stated.
The Israelites could not keep the law...any of the Laws, as witnessed by the forming of the golden calf, because they did not have the Holy Spirit...He was EXTERNAL to them.

But now...we do have the Holy Spirit indwelling in us and so we are empowered to obey God's commandments.

Romans 6:16
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?


We're either a slave of God or a slave of satan.

If we want to be saved and be born again, we must:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God.


Do you agree so far?



Romans 6:14 OK Paul is saying that sin will no longer be our master -

But we must also read the verses surrounding it:

Romans 6:11-17
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,


We read that:
We are dead to sin. verse 11
We are alive to God IN JESUS. verse 13
We are not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies. verse 13
We are to present ourselves to God verse 13
Sin no longer has a hold on us because we are not under The Law verse 14
Should we sin because we are under grace? verse 15
MAY IT NEVER BE! verse 15
If we present ourselves to God we will obey resulting in righteousness. verse 16
We have become obedient from the heart. verse 17


Every single Covenant has the condition of obeying God,,,beginning with the Edenic Covenant.
The difference between the Mosaic and the New is what I've already stated.
In the Mosaic we did not have THE POWER to obey...
In the NC we do.

Yes 1Cor15:56 is speaking about the law, the moral law to be precise, the rest of the law could faultlessly be obeyed, so sin had no power there



Yes, we have the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us. However, if you live under justification of obeying the law you still live under the power of sin

Rom6:16 it needs to be qualified, the bible speaks of sin in two different ways. There is living a wilfull lifestyle of sin, which Paul is speaking of in that verse, and sin we all have because we will never be perfect in our flesh. And Im sure, that is how you would relate sin to yourself and believers

Dead to sin in what respect, never committing it? Or looking to Christ and away from yourself, not wanting to dwell on sin?

Paul tells us we die to the law in order to bear fruit for God

Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law

We have been released from the law and serve in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code/law(Rom7:4-6)

In the next five verses Paul gives a personal example from his own life as to which law he is speaking of, the example he gave is one of the ten commandments.

What is written in the moral law remains, but law as we all naturally understand law to mean has been abolished. Once again, its all in the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands

I hope that addresses your points.

However, you have not answered my one question
If you remove justification of obeying the law from a believer, why is that not a licence to sin?
And according to Paul, we must die to justification of obeying the law for sin not to be our master, something you seem to oppose