Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

[Wrangler]

God is given many names in the bible.

You’re contradicting God.

 

[Wrangler]

I see that you are UNABLE to reply to my posts.
It would require too much theology - which, apparently, you are not familiar with.

So, that’s how you deflect away from Ex 3:15.

 

[Wrangler]

If you have to add to God's Word don't expect that to convince me. I'm going with what God said, unadulterated.

Me too! I too am going with God said, unadulterated! I don’t think you are But instead reading into it what you want. Isaiah 45:5
I am Yahweh, and there is none else.
Besides me, there is no God.

1 COR 8:6
for us, there is one God, the Father.

 

[Wrangler]

WHERE does it state OF JESUS' MINISTRY?? John 1:1

The whole Gospel of John is about Jesus’ ministry.

 

[GodsGrace]

The whole Gospel of John is about Jesus’ ministry.

You're funny in a sad way.
You can't be serious.
Nothing further to discuss with such a dishonest person.

 

[marks]

But instead reading into it what you want.

So if you think I'm just making it up as I go along what more need be said?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

You can't be serious.

Ironic that you laugh at contradicting God, deflecting away from Ex 3:15 and denying the Gospel of John is about the ministry of Jesus.

You’re contradicting God.

So, that’s how you deflect away from Ex 3:15.

The whole Gospel of John is about Jesus’ ministry.

 

[Beebster]

Well, YOU are not Jesus.

You're right we shouldn't follow his example.

You think PERSON means SPIRIT?

Where in the world did you get that idea?

No onus on me Beebster because you don't even understand what is written in plain English.

You should slow down and read my words a bit more carefully before you post things like that.

It is you that claims PERSON means SPIRIT.

The Father is spirit you say he's a person.
Jesus Christ is spirit you say he's a person.
And then you say the Holy Spirit is a person.
Go figure.

You are apparently unfamiliar with the Christian faith.
FYI the Trinity has existed from the very beginning....
yes, beginning in the Old Testament.

I've asked you to show me but you are either unwilling or unable.

Christians believe that Jesus is God.
Perhaps you're not a Christian? Although that's what is incorrectly stated under your avatar.

Sounds like you're upset. Im not sure why.
Perhaps the truth is getting to you.

Also, apparently, you are UNABLE to reply to my post no. 357 because your theology is incorrect.

And this will be the end of our most unfruitful discussion.

I answered half of that post 357 which is what you just replied to.
Be patient, ill be answering the rest of it shortly.
If after that you feel you don't want to discuss this further then that is certainly your perogative.

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[JustMe]

I would like to ramble and enjoy to write a bit on this video, to highlight the crucial aspect of Yeshua's spilt blood on the Cross for our salvation.

The essence of salvation, agreed upon by many people of faith is fundamentally centered on the blood and sacrifice of Yeshua (Jesus). It is taught as I believe, that without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins, as stated in Hebrews 9:22. The blood of Yeshua is the means by which atonement is made, fulfilling the ancient requirement for blood sacrifice that was central to the Old Testament sacrificial system. This sacrifice is the ultimate fulfillment of the law, replacing the need for animal offerings and the Temple-based system, which ceased after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD.

Yeshua’s blood is portrayed and I consider as pure, perfect, and sufficient for the complete forgiveness of sins, enabling a restored relationship with God. His sacrifice is a once-for-all time, one event, for eternity, and sufficient to secure eternal redemption, unlike the temporary atonement provided by animal sacrifices. The New Covenant, established through His blood, offers direct access to God, purifies the conscience from dead works, and brings peace and eternal life to those who believe. This sacrifice is not a cruel demand by God, but as an act of divine love and grace, where the sinless Son of God offered Himself to ransom humanity from sin and death.

The belief that I hold is that salvation is only possible, as the most crucial prerequisite through faith in Yeshua’s sacrificial death and the power of His blood, which satisfies God’s justice and provides the only path to reconciliation and eternal life. As such, the blood of Yeshua is not merely symbolic but is central to the Christian understanding of salvation, representing the divine ransom paid for sinners.

 

[Beebster]

Actually, there is a heirarchy to the Godhead.
Why?
Because the Son and the Holy Spirit PROCEED from the Father.
The correct term is SOURCE...but heirarchy is easily understood.

They proceed.
They are not created.

Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit so no, not created or a separate being and certainly not a person.
Jesus Christ was created and is still being created. Look around you.

And yes there is a heirarchy to God.

The Father is Supreme.

John 1:1 explains this really well.
IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD.
THE WORD WAS WITH GOD.
THE WORD WAS GOD.

The Word/Logos of God became flesh.

This does not prove a trinity, nor does it prove that Christ is eternal. And in all honesty it does not prove he was created.

What it does prove, when used with other witnesses, is that Christ existed prior to coming down into the flesh.

The Father is not in the center because they all have the same will.
The same power, the same substance/essence.
All 3 are God.

Again. The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit.
And Christ does have his Fathers will.
Do you know why?
BECAUSE THE FATHER GAVE IT TO HIM.

I believe what the NT teaches.
The NT teaches that there is One God.

Yes.

It teaches that Jesus is God.

Yes.

And then Jesus sends to us the Holy Spirit.

Yes the comforter, the parakletos, the spirit of truth,, which is Christ.

By the way, where does the spirit of Truth fit into the triune?

 

[amigo de christo]

I would like to ramble and enjoy to write a bit on this video, to highlight the crucial aspect of Yeshua's spilt blood on the Cross for our salvation.

The essence of salvation, agreed upon by many people of faith is fundamentally centered on the blood and sacrifice of Yeshua (Jesus). It is taught as I believe, that without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins, as stated in Hebrews 9:22. The blood of Yeshua is the means by which atonement is made, fulfilling the ancient requirement for blood sacrifice that was central to the Old Testament sacrificial system. This sacrifice is the ultimate fulfillment of the law, replacing the need for animal offerings and the Temple-based system, which ceased after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD.

Yeshua’s blood is portrayed and I consider as pure, perfect, and sufficient for the complete forgiveness of sins, enabling a restored relationship with God. His sacrifice is a once-for-all time, one event, for eternity, and sufficient to secure eternal redemption, unlike the temporary atonement provided by animal sacrifices. The New Covenant, established through His blood, offers direct access to God, purifies the conscience from dead works, and brings peace and eternal life to those who believe. This sacrifice is not a cruel demand by God, but as an act of divine love and grace, where the sinless Son of God offered Himself to ransom humanity from sin and death.

The belief that I hold is that salvation is only possible, as the most crucial prerequisite through faith in Yeshua’s sacrificial death and the power of His blood, which satisfies God’s justice and provides the only path to reconciliation and eternal life. As such, the blood of Yeshua is not merely symbolic but is central to the Christian understanding of salvation, representing the divine ransom paid for sinners.

The savoir of the world always reminded
of the dire need to Beleive on Him .
Thus to the trenches and remind all of the absolute dire need to believe on Him .

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[GodsGrace]

You're right we shouldn't follow his example.

Where in the world did you get that idea?

You should slow down and read my words a bit more carefully before you post things like that.

It is you that claims PERSON means SPIRIT.

The Father is spirit you say he's a person.
Jesus Christ is spirit you say he's a person.
And then you say the Holy Spirit is a person.
Go figure.

I've asked you to show me but you are either unwilling or unable.

Sounds like you're upset. Im not sure why.
Perhaps the truth is getting to you.

I answered half of that post 357 which is what you just replied to.
Be patient, ill be answering the rest of it shortly.
If after that you feel you don't want to discuss this further then that is certainly your perogative.

No need to discuss further.
Learn what the Trinity is if you want to be defined as Christian.
Christians believe in the Trinity.

 

[GodsGrace]

Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit so no, not created or a separate being and certainly not a person.
Jesus Christ was created and is still being created. Look around you.

And yes there is a heirarchy to God.

The Father is Supreme.

This does not prove a trinity, nor does it prove that Christ is eternal. And in all honesty it does not prove he was created.

What it does prove, when used with other witnesses, is that Christ existed prior to coming down into the flesh.

Again. The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit.
And Christ does have his Fathers will.
Do you know why?
BECAUSE THE FATHER GAVE IT TO HIM.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes the comforter, the parakletos, the spirit of truth,, which is Christ.

By the way, where does the spirit of Truth fit into the triune?

No scripture.
No discussion.
Your opinion is of no interest to me.

 

[saved by grace 101]

I've asked you to show me but you are either unwilling or unable.

Sounds like you're upset. Im not sure why.
Perhaps the truth is getting to you.

He gets upset when you insist he answers your questions

 

[Wrangler]

Nothing further to discuss with such a dishonest person.

Projecting.

So if you think I'm just making it up as I go along what more need be said?

Odd how both of you abandon the field of science, of studying God's word by invoking Ad Hominem's. @GodsGrace directed at me. @marks directed at himself. A martyr complex?

@marks, I don't think you are making it up beyond extreme eisegesis. That you are wrong is seen in what you ignore, e.g., post #333. and below. You're like a judge that only admits evidence favorable to one side. Not very just.

Me too! I too am going with God said, unadulterated! I don’t think you are But instead reading into it what you want. Isaiah 45:5
I am Yahweh, and there is none else.
Besides me, there is no God.

1 COR 8:6
for us, there is one God, the Father.

And I want to thank @Beebster for adding to my repertoire John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

This mirrors Psalm 83:18 (REV) but Jesus is saying it.
you alone, whose name is Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth.

Long and convoluted arguments

See what I mean marks? Above, you don't give credit for a deep dive analysis that supports a conclusion you don't like. Just because an argument is long does not make it wrong.

(And there was nothing convoluted about his detailed history and analysis. Your response, which violates Ephesians 4:29, says more about you than his comprehensively refuting a claim.)

You have nothing to say. This is not convolution at all. Scripture is not that straight forward at all, sir. it's an attempt for me to reprove some area in scripture that was corrupted, and has been smelly for centuries, and there are many more like this subject that stink to high heaven.

Agreed. I've come to understand why Scripture is not that straight forward; it's authors where not writing to 21st century Americans. It's a narrative revelation, not a series of doctrines with expansive commentaries. One thing an honest reading reveals is the trinity or the claim that Jesus is God is NOT the central message of Scripture. Not sure why they want to make it seem as though it is.

On the whole, these 2 posters are not serious. They have their position, don't acknowledge the Scripture that doesn't support their position, then ultimately rely on one fallacy or another to end the "discussion" to claim victory. This little spreadsheet shows no matter how we present Scripture they don't like, they find a way to ignore and dismiss it.


We can lead a horse to water but can' make it drink. Time to shake the dust off our feet and move on from these 2 theologians, eh?

 

[Wrangler]

@Beebster, I've enjoyed reading many of your posts. The one below suggests you are a binitarian.

Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit so no, not created or a separate being and certainly not a person.
Jesus Christ was created and is still being created.

And yes there is a heirarchy to God.

The Father is Supreme.

Yes.

How do you reconcile your claim with Isaiah 45:5 and the changing (still being created) Jesus with the many verses that reveal God's immutable nature, e.g., Malachi 3:6, Isaiah 40:28 and 1 Timothy 1:17?

 

[GodsGrace]

Projecting.



Odd how both of you abandon the field of science, of studying God's word by invoking Ad Hominem's. @GodsGrace directed at me. @marks directed at himself. A martyr complex?

@marks, I don't think you are making it up beyond extreme eisegesis. That you are wrong is seen in what you ignore, e.g., post #333. and below. You're like a judge that only admits evidence favorable to one side. Not very just.



And I want to thank @Beebster for adding to my repertoire John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

This mirrors Psalm 83:18 (REV) but Jesus is saying it.
you alone, whose name is Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth.



See what I mean marks? Above, you don't give credit for a deep dive analysis that supports a conclusion you don't like. Just because an argument is long does not make it wrong.

(And there was nothing convoluted about his detailed history and analysis. Your response, which violates Ephesians 4:29, says more about you than his comprehensively refuting a claim.)



Agreed. I've come to understand why Scripture is not that straight forward; it's authors where not writing to 21st century Americans. It's a narrative revelation, not a series of doctrines with expansive commentaries. One thing an honest reading reveals is the trinity or the claim that Jesus is God is NOT the central message of Scripture. Not sure why they want to make it seem as though it is.

On the whole, these 2 posters are not serious. They have their position, don't acknowledge the Scripture that doesn't support their position, then ultimately rely on one fallacy or another to end the "discussion" to claim victory. This little spreadsheet shows no matter how we present Scripture they don't like, they find a way to ignore and dismiss it.
View attachment 77402

We can lead a horse to water but can' make it drink. Time to shake the dust off our feet and move on from these 2 theologians, eh?

You do not reply to my posts, which take time, so there is no need to respond to your silly comments.

You are following a religion that is not Christian.
Christians believe Jesus is God.
YOU make an effort to TRY to show that He is not.
That makes you a non-Christian.

You might be Jewish or Muslim.
But not Christian.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Beebster, I've enjoyed reading many of your posts. The one below suggests you are a binitarian.






How do you reconcile your claim with Isaiah 45:5 and the changing (still being created) Jesus with the many verses that reveal God's immutable nature, e.g., Malachi 3:6, Isaiah 40:28 and 1 Timothy 1:17?

@Beepster can believe whatever he wants to...
Why do you question his belief system?

According to YOU and Beepster, a "Christian" can believe whatever he wants to believe.
What does it matter that you do not agree with each other?

You are both following a religion that is not known to Christianity.