Fake Pretrib claims re the early Church fathers

[Spiritual Israelite]

FALSE…

Believers can Believe AND STOP Believing.

I'm talking about those who have true faith in Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. They are in Christ. Any other type of faith/belief is meaningless. Even the demons believe and tremble.

Believers “IN Christ”… have Confessed their HEARTFUL Belief To the Lird and Been “MADE” Baptized with the Holy Spirit BY the Lamb of God..

No kidding. Hello? Any other kind of "believers" are not true believers, so stop trying to make things confusing by acting as if any kind of belief besides one putting their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior means anything.

One day Joe Blow tells a buddy he Believes and two years later tells his buddy, he doesn’t Believe…
Was Joe a Believer?..Yes.
Was he Baptized by the Lamb of God?…No.
Was he “IN Christ”?… No.

Stop this foolishness. He was not a true believer at all if he wasn't in Christ. You need to differentiate between true faith and insincere faith and not lump believers all together. Make the distinction so that people can understand what you're saying.

Christ Jesus’ Offering was for men to become MADE Sav-ED…. ONCE …
And KEPT Sav-ED…. forever… BY the Spirit of God IN Them….that Forever they would Believe….

Not play the wishy washy Mind game of MEN… saying I believe, I doubt, I don’t believe, maybe I Believe..blah, blah, blah.

You speak so much gibberish. I don't know why I bother with you. You don't know how to communicate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You reject …. HOW and WHEN and WHY

I reject nothing but your false claims that you utterly fail to back up with any kind of coherent argument using scripture.

they Delivered IN Christ, shall Escape Tribulations and Wrath sent Down From Heaven…in what is called …
The Last Great Tribulation;
The deliverance…“in a Phrase called “caught up”…
in a Word called “Raptured”.

Here is the wrath that we will escape when the rapture occurs since there will be no other way to escape because of it affecting literally the entire earth...

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

Paul makes it clear that unbelievers "shall not escape" the wrath that will occur when Jesus comes again unexpectedly as a thief in the night, but true believers will escape.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.....9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[WPM]

Beyond the basics —- Pre-Trib deliverance, of who, and why has been discussed on this forum in Depth…
And still people as yourself are still without understanding of who and why.

It is foolish to pretend yourself an expert on what you do not understand…

Not amused.

I was deceived by Pretrib for years. Like many who are open to what Scripture says: I abandoned that error. You have zero Scriptures. You can only repeat what you have been taught.

 

[Taken]

I'm talking about those who have true faith in Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

You may be talking “ABOUT Them Specific”, but you don’t delineate …
You say “True Believers”… as IF that is what Scripture says, it Doesn’t….
Scripture Divides …
Confessed Believers IN Christ, baptized by the Lamb God…
Are Not the same as “Believers.”

They Baptized by the Lamb of God… ARE SAVED… after their Bodily Death, “Crucified WITH Christ.”—- They Shall be Raptured…

Other Believers…. Can Stop Believing… OR continue to Believe to the day of their Mortal Death…. For their Belief, their Soul Shall rise up Saved, to higher Heaven… (By God)… and BE With God…
(Whether Before the great Trib or DURING the Great Trib…)
(1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Belief IN Jesus…IN God…. But not confessed Belief that…
Jesus IS the Christ!!

Rev. 7:
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation…

Not the Clouds… as they IN Christ.—->

1 Thes. 4
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

They are in Christ. Any other type of faith/belief is meaningless…

Not so.
Christ Jesus Saves those … God gave Him.
God Saves Whom He Wills.

Some ARE saved IN Christ, By the Lamb of God, Before the great Trib.

Some ARE saved (by God) believing IN God and Jesus rose from the Dead… ( but not that Jesus was the Christ Messiah ). During the Trib.

No kidding. Hello? Any other kind of "believers" are not true believers, so stop trying to make things confusing

Natural Belief and Spiritual Belief… IS NOT the Same nor Confusing … if you know and speak that there IS a difference… as Scripture Teaches..

Stop this foolishness. He was not a true believer at all if he wasn't in Christ.

You speak from your Carnal Minded conclusions, regarding a Spiritual Event.

God IS Spirit… His acts are according to His Spirit.
His Offering is to Natural men.
His Sanctification, Salvation, Forgiveness, Justification, Quickening, Redemption(S), is according to His Word, His Authority Given Christ Jesus and His Authority He Retains.

You need to differentiate between true faith and insincere faith and not lump believers all together. Make the distinction so that people can understand what you're saying.

Have numerous times….
“IN Christ”… (ARE bodily accounted Dead)…ARE Saved… Not subject to Tribulations from Heaven.

“Believers”… and “Unbelievers”… shall be subject to the last Great Tribulations from Heaven…
Some will come into belief, some won’t.
None Shall be Saved… that mortally die … Not in belief…

Belief must occur BEFORE a bodily Death.
Salvation IS GIVEN AFTER one believes AND their Body is Accounted DEAD!

You speak so much gibberish. I don't know why I bother with you. You don't know how to communicate.

You speak Carnally about Spiritual Things.
I speak Spiritually about Spiritual things … and it is Foreign to you.

Remember…
Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Taken]

I was deceived by Pretrib for years.

To be deceived…as you say… you must have held a belief of WHAT … pretrib means…
You never have said.

Since you believe The Saved IN Christ Will be ON the Earth During the Trib Sent from Heaven…
Where are YOUR Scriptures that Say…
Christ the Lord IS ON Earth During The Trib…
That They IN Christ are ON the Earth…
And What They ARE Doing?

Like many who are open to what Scripture says: I abandoned that error. You have zero Scriptures. You can only repeat what you have been taught.

This forum has provided Multiple Times Scripture, The Saved in Christ Are IN the Clouds With The Lord.
Your rejection Does Not mean the Scripture have Not been provided.

 

[Taken]

I reject nothing but your false claims that you utterly fail to back up with any kind of coherent argument using scripture.

You reject me Saying and Quoting Scripture that Says…
Who,
How,
Why.

Here is the wrath that we will escape when the rapture occurs …

The Rapture Escape Occurs, Before the Tribulations From Heaven Begins…
Tribulations….From Heaven Are …
The 7 seals Judgements
The 7 trumps Judgements
The 7 Bowls Judgements

since there will be no other way to escape because of it affecting literally the entire earth...

Yes… During the Trib…
God Is NOT ON the Earth.
The Lord Is Not ON the Earth.
The Saved Souls Are Not ON the Earth,

IF you ARE Alive and ON the Earth during the Trib.. You ARE among and WITH the rest of the Whole World of the UN-Saved.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night,

“The DAY of the Lord” Comes FROM WHERE TO WHERE?

Did you “ignore THE Day”…
And instead… Pretend The “Lord is Coming from One Place To Another”?

in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

When? When Does “The DAY” of the “The Lord”… Happen?

Before the 21 Tribulations Judgements?
No
During the 21 Tribulation Judgements?
No
Immediately Following the 21 Tribulation Judgements?
No.

You have Completely Skipped…
What Follows… being the 21 Tribulations Judgements.
The Two Witnesses.
The battle Between Holy and demonic Angels.
The Kingship of Satan, ruling the Earth.
The Casting of Satan to Hell.

And leap to Paul’s summary…… of All “Those thing Dissolved”…. Without a Whisper of WHAT all those things WERE.

11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved,

And you Skip past the 1,000 year Reign of Christ Jesus…

what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

Why? Because Those mortal men… are With Christ Jesus, (His Saved Spiritual Souls and holy Angels) on Earth During Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr reign…

12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,

Oh wait…
You have MADE the Lords Coming…
The Lords Day…
Then you have MADE the Lords Day / Gods Day.

The Lord … (with His Saints ie Saved and His Angels) arrives to Be King of His Kingdom For 1,000 years. Void of Satan’s presence.

The believing (but not Saved) mortal men outside the boundaries of Christs Kingdom….
ARE:
Reproducing humans, establishing, towns, cities, nations, kings, building, growing, trading, getting along with other people, nations….. and All kings Ruling their nations in accordance to Gods Word…
Literal Prosperity and Peace on Earth.

As natural human men continue over the course of 1,000 years increasing in “Prosperity”… their “NEED” and “Desire” to Thank God, Include the Lord in Their Life… begins to wax Cold.

Nothing new… It is Visible Today… WHO needs God… when all their Needs and Wants can be Obtained… WITHOUT a relationship with the Lord God?
WHO needs God, IF men have a government who Steals from the Rich to dole out to the poor? Yippie!!! Gag!

At the close of the 1,000 years…
Satan is Released from Hell AND Allowed to Influence “the Greed of The anti-godly men ON Earth”.

Observe TODAY…. They who are “benefitting” from Government Theft of One, doling out “freebies” to another… IS a continual Complaint… to give them MORE and MORE!!!

Satan’s presence Shall Dictate to the peoples of the Nations… “They Deserve MORE wealth, MORE, MORE, MORE and the People Should come upon Christ Jesus” “KING of kings” (earthly) Kingdom and Demand MORE!

AND they Do…
(All nations Fulfill the prophecy… that All nations Shall come Against ISRAEL!)

AND HOW Does Christ the Lord come TO HIS STANDING…THAT Attack Against His (earthly) Kingdom?

Remember The Lords TWO Edged Sword?
It IS His WORD… that … does Two Things…
Bodily Kills and Saves a Soul with Him…
Or
Bodily Kills and Takes Back the Life of that Soul… And Destroys Both… that mans Lifeless Body and Soul.

Does He … come out of His Kingdom… run about Stabbing With He Sword (word) anti-Christ Nations of men attacking His (earthly) Kingdom ?
No.

His Word Brings Down From Heaven…Burning Fire … To Burn and Kill the men of Nations who have established their allegiance With Satan, and Come Against Christ Jesus’ (earthly) Kingdom…

because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

Paul’s Summary…
You simply “Skip past ALL the important Happenings”…in Revelations that God, to Jesus, to His Angels, to John, to The Lord Gods Servants…Read, study, Learn, Trust, Believe, Expect…

An Earth Cleansing, the Anti-Godly Men killed and their lifeless body and lifeless soul destroyed and ever living anti-Godly Spirit Angels removed from the face of the Earth Forever…
And the Earth Renewed…
And the Heavens Renewed…
And the Barrier between Heaven and Earth Removed…
And… forever only Holy righteous men shall see their Lord God, As He IS (Spirit)…
And Remain With Him (in their own holy state of being) Forever

Paul makes it clear that unbelievers "shall not escape" the wrath that will occur when Jesus comes again unexpectedly as a thief in the night, but true believers will escape.

Uh… When Jesus Comes TO EARTH…
The 21 Tribulations Have Already Occurred!

Uh When Jesus Return to EARTH His Saints (the Saved IN CHRIST COME WITH Him!!!

You have been Repeatedly Shown…the Scripture….but Continue to Reject Gods Word!

Saved in Christ ARE Caught Up.(Raptured), up to the Clouds.
Saved IN Christ Meet the Lord who descends from High (heaven above Heaven)… to the Lower Heavens (Clouds).

And where-ever henceforth the Lord IS / goes… SO ALSO Are they IN Christ… WITH the Lord…
And that IS long Before Christ the Lord “Returns TO the Earth”!!!

1 Thes 4:

[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


You are unprepared in Trusting Gods Truth and Void of Gods Understanding of His Truth.

You want men to give you Scriptural verification…
They do… you giggle and reject Gods Word.

You want men to give you “Understanding” of Gods Word…

They can Not!!!

Understanding of Gods Word … only comes From the Lord God… Ask Him!

 

[WPM]

To be deceived…as you say… you must have held a belief of WHAT … pretrib means…
You never have said.

Since you believe The Saved IN Christ Will be ON the Earth During the Trib Sent from Heaven…
Where are YOUR Scriptures that Say…
Christ the Lord IS ON Earth During The Trib…
That They IN Christ are ON the Earth…
And What They ARE Doing?



This forum has provided Multiple Times Scripture, The Saved in Christ Are IN the Clouds With The Lord.
Your rejection Does Not mean the Scripture have Not been provided.

Show us one Scripture that teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by a 7 years tribulation period, followed by a third coming of the Lord?

It is simply not there. No Pretrib can show that. That is because it is an extra-biblical invention.

 

[rwb]

Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for rapture wimps in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.


God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.

But the promise is only for those who resolve to eschew rapture wimpism.

I wholeheartedly agree! Which is why I believe the words Christ spoke from the Mount of Olives of "great tribulation" are directed to the Church on earth as faithful Christians proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the nations of the world. What other entity upon the earth has ever withstood the kind of persecutions that have been, and are still on-going, and will most assuredly become greater as the day of Christ' return approaches? The persecution foretold of Old that began with the advent of Christ coming in His time, and persecution that shall not end until Christ comes again.

Matthew 24:21-22 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Daniel 12:1 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Joel 2:1-2 (KJV) Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Zechariah 14:2-4 (KJV) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Malachi 4:1-3 (KJV) For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[rwb]

@Spiritual Israelite

Addressed the ones making negative comments, obviously revealing they are without understanding!

The only ones without understanding are those like yourself! Those who have no understanding of the difference between tribulation and persecution God allows to come against His Church on this earth, and the TERRIBLE WRATH of God that shall come upon all who remain in unbelief!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You may be talking “ABOUT Them Specific”, but you don’t delineate …
You say “True Believers”… as IF that is what Scripture says, it Doesn’t….
Scripture Divides …
Confessed Believers IN Christ, baptized by the Lamb God…
Are Not the same as “Believers.”

They Baptized by the Lamb of God… ARE SAVED… after their Bodily Death, “Crucified WITH Christ.”—- They Shall be Raptured…

Other Believers…. Can Stop Believing… OR continue to Believe to the day of their Mortal Death…. For their Belief, their Soul Shall rise up Saved, to higher Heaven… (By God)… and BE With God…
(Whether Before the great Trib or DURING the Great Trib…)
(1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Belief IN Jesus…IN God…. But not confessed Belief that…
Jesus IS the Christ!!

Rev. 7:
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation…

Not the Clouds… as they IN Christ.—->

1 Thes. 4
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.




Not so.
Christ Jesus Saves those … God gave Him.
God Saves Whom He Wills.

Some ARE saved IN Christ, By the Lamb of God, Before the great Trib.

Some ARE saved (by God) believing IN God and Jesus rose from the Dead… ( but not that Jesus was the Christ Messiah ). During the Trib.




Natural Belief and Spiritual Belief… IS NOT the Same nor Confusing … if you know and speak that there IS a difference… as Scripture Teaches..



You speak from your Carnal Minded conclusions, regarding a Spiritual Event.

God IS Spirit… His acts are according to His Spirit.
His Offering is to Natural men.
His Sanctification, Salvation, Forgiveness, Justification, Quickening, Redemption(S), is according to His Word, His Authority Given Christ Jesus and His Authority He Retains.



Have numerous times….
“IN Christ”… (ARE bodily accounted Dead)…ARE Saved… Not subject to Tribulations from Heaven.

“Believers”… and “Unbelievers”… shall be subject to the last Great Tribulations from Heaven…
Some will come into belief, some won’t.
None Shall be Saved… that mortally die … Not in belief…

Belief must occur BEFORE a bodily Death.
Salvation IS GIVEN AFTER one believes AND their Body is Accounted DEAD!



You speak Carnally about Spiritual Things.
I speak Spiritually about Spiritual things … and it is Foreign to you.

Remember…
Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What a load of garbage. You have nothing of substance to offer. Nothing but indecipherable, rambling gibberish from you. Your carnal mind has deceived you into thinking you think spiritually, which you clearly do not. All you can do is ramble on and on about different types of believers without being able to give a coherent argument in favor of pre-trib. You are deceived by your own carnal mind that has accepted the lie of pre-trib dispensationalism.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You reject me Saying and Quoting Scripture that Says…
Who,
How,
Why.





The Rapture Escape Occurs, Before the Tribulations From Heaven Begins…
Tribulations….From Heaven Are …
The 7 seals Judgements
The 7 trumps Judgements
The 7 Bowls Judgements



Yes… During the Trib…
God Is NOT ON the Earth.
The Lord Is Not ON the Earth.
The Saved Souls Are Not ON the Earth,

IF you ARE Alive and ON the Earth during the Trib.. You ARE among and WITH the rest of the Whole World of the UN-Saved.



“The DAY of the Lord” Comes FROM WHERE TO WHERE?

Did you “ignore THE Day”…
And instead… Pretend The “Lord is Coming from One Place To Another”?



When? When Does “The DAY” of the “The Lord”… Happen?

Before the 21 Tribulations Judgements?
No
During the 21 Tribulation Judgements?
No
Immediately Following the 21 Tribulation Judgements?
No.

You have Completely Skipped…
What Follows… being the 21 Tribulations Judgements.
The Two Witnesses.
The battle Between Holy and demonic Angels.
The Kingship of Satan, ruling the Earth.
The Casting of Satan to Hell.

And leap to Paul’s summary…… of All “Those thing Dissolved”…. Without a Whisper of WHAT all those things WERE.



And you Skip past the 1,000 year Reign of Christ Jesus…



Why? Because Those mortal men… are With Christ Jesus, (His Saved Spiritual Souls and holy Angels) on Earth During Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr reign…




Oh wait…
You have MADE the Lords Coming…
The Lords Day…
Then you have MADE the Lords Day / Gods Day.

The Lord … (with His Saints ie Saved and His Angels) arrives to Be King of His Kingdom For 1,000 years. Void of Satan’s presence.

The believing (but not Saved) mortal men outside the boundaries of Christs Kingdom….
ARE:
Reproducing humans, establishing, towns, cities, nations, kings, building, growing, trading, getting along with other people, nations….. and All kings Ruling their nations in accordance to Gods Word…
Literal Prosperity and Peace on Earth.

As natural human men continue over the course of 1,000 years increasing in “Prosperity”… their “NEED” and “Desire” to Thank God, Include the Lord in Their Life… begins to wax Cold.

Nothing new… It is Visible Today… WHO needs God… when all their Needs and Wants can be Obtained… WITHOUT a relationship with the Lord God?
WHO needs God, IF men have a government who Steals from the Rich to dole out to the poor? Yippie!!! Gag!

At the close of the 1,000 years…
Satan is Released from Hell AND Allowed to Influence “the Greed of The anti-godly men ON Earth”.

Observe TODAY…. They who are “benefitting” from Government Theft of One, doling out “freebies” to another… IS a continual Complaint… to give them MORE and MORE!!!

Satan’s presence Shall Dictate to the peoples of the Nations… “They Deserve MORE wealth, MORE, MORE, MORE and the People Should come upon Christ Jesus” “KING of kings” (earthly) Kingdom and Demand MORE!

AND they Do…
(All nations Fulfill the prophecy… that All nations Shall come Against ISRAEL!)

AND HOW Does Christ the Lord come TO HIS STANDING…THAT Attack Against His (earthly) Kingdom?

Remember The Lords TWO Edged Sword?
It IS His WORD… that … does Two Things…
Bodily Kills and Saves a Soul with Him…
Or
Bodily Kills and Takes Back the Life of that Soul… And Destroys Both… that mans Lifeless Body and Soul.

Does He … come out of His Kingdom… run about Stabbing With He Sword (word) anti-Christ Nations of men attacking His (earthly) Kingdom ?
No.

His Word Brings Down From Heaven…Burning Fire … To Burn and Kill the men of Nations who have established their allegiance With Satan, and Come Against Christ Jesus’ (earthly) Kingdom…



Paul’s Summary…
You simply “Skip past ALL the important Happenings”…in Revelations that God, to Jesus, to His Angels, to John, to The Lord Gods Servants…Read, study, Learn, Trust, Believe, Expect…

An Earth Cleansing, the Anti-Godly Men killed and their lifeless body and lifeless soul destroyed and ever living anti-Godly Spirit Angels removed from the face of the Earth Forever…
And the Earth Renewed…
And the Heavens Renewed…
And the Barrier between Heaven and Earth Removed…
And… forever only Holy righteous men shall see their Lord God, As He IS (Spirit)…
And Remain With Him (in their own holy state of being) Forever



Uh… When Jesus Comes TO EARTH…
The 21 Tribulations Have Already Occurred!

Uh When Jesus Return to EARTH His Saints (the Saved IN CHRIST COME WITH Him!!!

You have been Repeatedly Shown…the Scripture….but Continue to Reject Gods Word!

Saved in Christ ARE Caught Up.(Raptured), up to the Clouds.
Saved IN Christ Meet the Lord who descends from High (heaven above Heaven)… to the Lower Heavens (Clouds).

And where-ever henceforth the Lord IS / goes… SO ALSO Are they IN Christ… WITH the Lord…
And that IS long Before Christ the Lord “Returns TO the Earth”!!!

1 Thes 4:

[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


You are unprepared in Trusting Gods Truth and Void of Gods Understanding of His Truth.

You want men to give you Scriptural verification…
They do… you giggle and reject Gods Word.

You want men to give you “Understanding” of Gods Word…

They can Not!!!

Understanding of Gods Word … only comes From the Lord God… Ask Him!

LOL. Nothing but foolishness from you. You aren't worth anyone's time. So many words from you without saying anything. You misinterpret every single verse that you come across. You have ZERO spiritual discernment. Absolutely NONE. You just ramble on and on and on without saying anything at all. You didn't address what I said AT ALL. Unbelievable. It's impossible to take you seriously.

 

[Taken]

@WPM
@Spiritual Israelite
@covenantee
@Marty fox
@All other anti-Church

Absolutely THIS World IS and Shall Be subjected to Tribulations…
No one has claimed otherwise!

Some people Experience Tribulations Daily of Men Against Men…

They “IN Christ”, go through the Tribulations OF THIS World of Tribulations of Men against Men, by the Comfort of the Spirit of God “IN” Them.

They “IN Christ”, Shall BE “Escaped”, “Delivered From” The “Great Tribulations Sent Down From Heaven”.

Some people … as you Reveal, obviously Know NOT the Difference…
Between the Tribulations of Men Against Men
(Such as you exhibit), and the GREAT and Terrible Tribulations Which SHALL be Sent Down From Heaven Upon this WHOLE WORLD”.

Fully Agree WITH you… You (IF Still Alive upon the Earth) Shall get to Experience the “Great and Terrible Tribulations To Be Sent Down FROM Heaven upon the Whole World”.
WHILE … the ESCAPED, RAPTURED, “IN Christ” ARE DELIVERED “Up to Their Lord and Savior IN the Clouds”.

Nothing New…
The Learned Know, the Faithful Understand…
…The Ancient Saved were Lifted Up to the Clouds, “THE First Time”, God Sent HIS Tribulations Upon this WHOLE World and destroyed the Anti-Godly and Cleansed the Earth With WATER…

Once Again…God has Promised…
The Learned Know, the Faithful Understand…
…The Save-ED Shall be Lifted Up to the Clouds, “THE Next and Last Time” God SHALL Send HIS Tribulations Upon this WHOLE World and destroy the Anti-Godly and Cleanse the Earth With FIRE…


Zero Scriptural indication, the Delivered, in the First GREAT Tribulation …
…Mourned or Prayed FOR or gave a thought or concern For the “undelivered” on Earth experiencing Gods First GREAT Tribulation…

… Or Shall the Delivered, From the Next GREAT Tribulation to Be Sent Down From Heaven… Have a Thought, Prayer, Concern FOR the “undelivered” experiencing Gods NEXT GREAT Tribulations Sent Down From Heaven “UPON” the Whole Word.

Preaching YOUR Unbelief IN the Lord Gods Word TO Deliver His Sav-ED FROM Gods GREAT Tribulation (To BE Sent Down From Heaven Upon the Whole World)…
…IS “your word” IN Direct Contrast TO Gods WORD.

Fully in Agreement… YOU (if still alive) WILL Remain ON Earth and experience Gods GREAT Tribulations, He has Promised.

Praise and Glory to my Great Lord God Almighty… Just and Righteous Divider and Separator and Deliverer of those WITH Him From those WITHOUT Him.

Taken

 

[WPM]

@WPM
@Spiritual Israelite
@covenantee
@Marty fox
@All other anti-Church

Absolutely THIS World IS and Shall Be subjected to Tribulations…
No one has claimed otherwise!

Some people Experience Tribulations Daily of Men Against Men…

They “IN Christ”, go through the Tribulations OF THIS World of Tribulations of Men against Men, by the Comfort of the Spirit of God “IN” Them.

They “IN Christ”, Shall BE “Escaped”, “Delivered From” The “Great Tribulations Sent Down From Heaven”.

Some people … as you Reveal, obviously Know NOT the Difference…
Between the Tribulations of Men Against Men
(Such as you exhibit), and the GREAT and Terrible Tribulations Which SHALL be Sent Down From Heaven Upon this WHOLE WORLD”.

Fully Agree WITH you… You (IF Still Alive upon the Earth) Shall get to Experience the “Great and Terrible Tribulations To Be Sent Down FROM Heaven upon the Whole World”.
WHILE … the ESCAPED, RAPTURED, “IN Christ” ARE DELIVERED “Up to Their Lord and Savior IN the Clouds”.

Nothing New…
The Learned Know, the Faithful Understand…
…The Ancient Saved were Lifted Up to the Clouds, “THE First Time”, God Sent HIS Tribulations Upon this WHOLE World and destroyed the Anti-Godly and Cleansed the Earth With WATER…

Once Again…God has Promised…
The Learned Know, the Faithful Understand…
…The Save-ED Shall be Lifted Up to the Clouds, “THE Next and Last Time” God SHALL Send HIS Tribulations Upon this WHOLE World and destroy the Anti-Godly and Cleanse the Earth With FIRE…


Zero Scriptural indication, the Delivered, in the First GREAT Tribulation …
…Mourned or Prayed FOR or gave a thought or concern For the “undelivered” on Earth experiencing Gods First GREAT Tribulation…

… Or Shall the Delivered, From the Next GREAT Tribulation to Be Sent Down From Heaven… Have a Thought, Prayer, Concern FOR the “undelivered” experiencing Gods NEXT GREAT Tribulations Sent Down From Heaven “UPON” the Whole Word.

Preaching YOUR Unbelief IN the Lord Gods Word TO Deliver His Sav-ED FROM Gods GREAT Tribulation (To BE Sent Down From Heaven Upon the Whole World)…
…IS “your word” IN Direct Contrast TO Gods WORD.

Fully in Agreement… YOU (if still alive) WILL Remain ON Earth and experience Gods GREAT Tribulations, He has Promised.

Praise and Glory to my Great Lord God Almighty… Just and Righteous Divider and Separator and Deliverer of those WITH Him From those WITHOUT Him.

Taken

Show us one Scripture that teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by a 7 years tribulation period, followed by a third coming of the Lord?

 

[WPM]

@WPM
@Spiritual Israelite
@covenantee
@Marty fox
@All other anti-Church

Absolutely THIS World IS and Shall Be subjected to Tribulations…
No one has claimed otherwise!

Some people Experience Tribulations Daily of Men Against Men…

They “IN Christ”, go through the Tribulations OF THIS World of Tribulations of Men against Men, by the Comfort of the Spirit of God “IN” Them.

They “IN Christ”, Shall BE “Escaped”, “Delivered From” The “Great Tribulations Sent Down From Heaven”.

Some people … as you Reveal, obviously Know NOT the Difference…
Between the Tribulations of Men Against Men
(Such as you exhibit), and the GREAT and Terrible Tribulations Which SHALL be Sent Down From Heaven Upon this WHOLE WORLD”.

Fully Agree WITH you… You (IF Still Alive upon the Earth) Shall get to Experience the “Great and Terrible Tribulations To Be Sent Down FROM Heaven upon the Whole World”.
WHILE … the ESCAPED, RAPTURED, “IN Christ” ARE DELIVERED “Up to Their Lord and Savior IN the Clouds”.

Nothing New…
The Learned Know, the Faithful Understand…
…The Ancient Saved were Lifted Up to the Clouds, “THE First Time”, God Sent HIS Tribulations Upon this WHOLE World and destroyed the Anti-Godly and Cleansed the Earth With WATER…

Once Again…God has Promised…
The Learned Know, the Faithful Understand…
…The Save-ED Shall be Lifted Up to the Clouds, “THE Next and Last Time” God SHALL Send HIS Tribulations Upon this WHOLE World and destroy the Anti-Godly and Cleanse the Earth With FIRE…


Zero Scriptural indication, the Delivered, in the First GREAT Tribulation …
…Mourned or Prayed FOR or gave a thought or concern For the “undelivered” on Earth experiencing Gods First GREAT Tribulation…

… Or Shall the Delivered, From the Next GREAT Tribulation to Be Sent Down From Heaven… Have a Thought, Prayer, Concern FOR the “undelivered” experiencing Gods NEXT GREAT Tribulations Sent Down From Heaven “UPON” the Whole Word.

Preaching YOUR Unbelief IN the Lord Gods Word TO Deliver His Sav-ED FROM Gods GREAT Tribulation (To BE Sent Down From Heaven Upon the Whole World)…
…IS “your word” IN Direct Contrast TO Gods WORD.

Fully in Agreement… YOU (if still alive) WILL Remain ON Earth and experience Gods GREAT Tribulations, He has Promised.

Praise and Glory to my Great Lord God Almighty… Just and Righteous Divider and Separator and Deliverer of those WITH Him From those WITHOUT Him.

Taken

This is all noise. Pretrib doesn't even have a proof text. Your avoidance of my simple question exposes that. No Pretribber can answer that. The doctrine is an extra-biblical Jesuit doctrine.

 

[Taken]

Show us one Scripture that teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by a 7 years tribulation period, followed by a third coming of the Lord?

Perhaps a Toddler Bible would work for you for simple one-liners.

An Adult Bible Requires an individual to read, study, the Whole of Scripture and the individual to reason …
(to whom, what, when, why)…“IF”, what “THEY” Believe parallels, thus Has Applicability TO THEM.

You Avoid stating “Your Belief, your what, your when, your why you hold a particular belief”…
And rather spend your time trying to rally Against others, you consider Not, know Not, their reasoning, their validation For “Their”
Who, what, When, Where, WHY.

Scripture Reveals…. IF “they Do THIS”… THEN their expectation should be THAT”…

And by default…IF “they DO NOT Do THIS”…
THEN there is No expectation for their expectation to BE THAT”.

An individual… who “IF” they “complete” the Steps of the Lord Gods “Offering”… “THEN” that individual SHALL receive the Lord Gods “Offering”.

The Lord God “Has Offered all men a Way” to be MADE, (by the Authority and Power of God) and recorded IN The Lord Gods Books of (evidentiary records)…
Righteously Wholly Whole and holy.

“IF” a man Freely, Elects, Chooses to Accept, Take, The Lord Gods “Offering”…
THAT individual… has Accepted The Lord Gods…
Full, Permanent, Once and Forever, Deliverance OF…
* His Whole Body,
* His Whole Soul,
* His Whole Spirit.

“AND”
Such “Individual” HAS become … MADE…
Excused, escaped, delivered FROM…
Subjection OF / TO;
All wraths, tribulations that Which Shall Be SENT Down From Heaven “UPON THIS WHOLE Earth, during the NEXT (and last) GREAT Tribulation.

You Reject the Lord Gods Teaching … OF HOW a man MADE Wholly Whole…
IS Excused, Escaped, Delivered FROM the Wrath and Tribulations TO BE, sent down From Heaven.

That “rejection” is accounted TO You.
Your “endless, repetitive Targeting and attempts to belittle and scorn Others” Who Accept Gods Promises, is accounted TO You.

You give ZERO Scripture, Reasoning, Purpose For a man MADE Wholly Whole,
To BE Present ON THIS Earth,… WHEN and WHILE …
Wraths, Tribulations Are being Sent down FROM Heaven UPON the Whole Earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

Perhaps a Toddler Bible would work for you for simple one-liners.

An Adult Bible Requires an individual to read, study, the Whole of Scripture and the individual to reason …
(to whom, what, when, why)…“IF”, what “THEY” Believe parallels, thus Has Applicability TO THEM.

You Avoid stating “Your Belief, your what, your when, your why you hold a particular belief”…
And rather spend your time trying to rally Against others, you consider Not, know Not, their reasoning, their validation For “Their”
Who, what, When, Where, WHY.

Scripture Reveals…. IF “they Do THIS”… THEN their expectation should be THAT”…

And by default…IF “they DO NOT Do THIS”…
THEN there is No expectation for their expectation to BE THAT”.

An individual… who “IF” they “complete” the Steps of the Lord Gods “Offering”… “THEN” that individual SHALL receive the Lord Gods “Offering”.

The Lord God “Has Offered all men a Way” to be MADE, (by the Authority and Power of God) and recorded IN The Lord Gods Books of (evidentiary records)…
Righteously Wholly Whole and holy.

“IF” a man Freely, Elects, Chooses to Accept, Take, The Lord Gods “Offering”…
THAT individual… has Accepted The Lord Gods…
Full, Permanent, Once and Forever, Deliverance OF…
* His Whole Body,
* His Whole Soul,
* His Whole Spirit.

“AND”
Such “Individual” HAS become … MADE…
Excused, escaped, delivered FROM…
Subjection OF / TO;
All wraths, tribulations that Which Shall Be SENT Down From Heaven “UPON THIS WHOLE Earth, during the NEXT (and last) GREAT Tribulation.

You Reject the Lord Gods Teaching … OF HOW a man MADE Wholly Whole…
IS Excused, Escaped, Delivered FROM the Wrath and Tribulations TO BE, sent down From Heaven.

That “rejection” is accounted TO You.
Your “endless, repetitive Targeting and attempts to belittle and scorn Others” Who Accept Gods Promises, is accounted TO You.

You give ZERO Scripture, Reasoning, Purpose For a man MADE Wholly Whole,
To BE Present ON THIS Earth,… WHEN and WHILE …
Wraths, Tribulations Are being Sent down FROM Heaven UPON the Whole Earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

So, you have nothing? We all know that. All you are left with is what man has taught you. Your posts are full of noise. No actual biblical facts.

 

[Taken]

So, you have nothing? We all know that. All you are left with is what man has taught you. Your posts are full of noise. No actual biblical facts.

The Bible FACTS / VERIFICATION has been provided you REPEATEDLY…
You Comment with scoffs, scorn, giggles, denials and carry on with your Carnal Minded Accusations, while Presenting NOTHING of value or validation.

Is the Lesson of:
Who IS NOT appointed To Heavenly “WRATH”… beyond your ability to Understand?

Is the Lesson of:
WHO is Delivered FROM Heavenly “TRIBULATIONS”… beyond your ability to Understand?

Is the Lesson of:
WHAT “Heavenly TRIBULATIONS” ARE…
Beyond your ability to Understand?

Is the Lesson of:
WHO, WHEN, WHY, HOW an individual is NOT subject to Heavenly WRATH or Heavenly TRIBULATIONS …
beyond your Understanding?

This World IS Full of Tribulations…
Men Against Men, Wars, lying, cheating, thievery, murdering, rejecting God, preaching Against God…
and Like YOU… scoffing and accusing Against men, WHO HAVE Accepted, Taken, Trust Gods Offering…of
Deliverance FROM:
SIN, Heavenly WRATH, Heavenly TRIBULATIONS, THIS WORLD and WITHOUT God…

They WHO HAVE “Accept, Taken, Gods Offering…
ARE Already MADE Whole… Body, Soul, Spirit…
They are NOT subject to Gods…
* Heavenly Wrath
* Heavenly Tribulations
* Presence ON Earth during such Wraths, Tribulations…

Your Rejection of… Who, Why and How… Repeatedly Scripturally given you … is accounted to you.

While YOU “never say” you ARE saved… or How that is accomplished…
You Imply, “the Sav-ED” shall be “ON the Earth”… during Heavenly Wraths and Tribulations…Doing What, for What Purpose…Again, you “NEVER say.”

“I am Soul Sav-ED” …
“I am Spirit Quicken-ED …
“I am Bodily Re-new-ED …
Already MADE Wholly Whole…
by, through, of Accepting /Taking Gods Offering.

“I will BE Delivered UP to the Clouds, With my Lord” Before… God Sends His Heavenly Wraths and Tribulations UPON this Whole Unrighteous World.

Apparently … according TO YOU, YOU will remain on the Face of this World along with all the Other… Unrighteous, UN-Saved, NON-Quickened, NON- Born Again occupants… experiencing Heavenly Wrath and Heavenly Tribulations…

Whoop, Whoop … for you and your choices.

Yeah for me and my choices.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[jeffweeder]

You Imply, “the Sav-ED” shall be “ON the Earth”… during Heavenly Wraths and Tribulations…Doing What, for What Purpose…Again, you “NEVER say.”

We will be on the earth if scripture is to be believed....,

2Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

Complete wrath and complete glorification occur on the day the Lord comes to get us. You seem to have a problem with scripture not Paul.


Doing what? , you ask?...,

Jude1
20 But you, beloved, build yourselves up on [the foundation of] your most holy faith [continually progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher], pray in the Holy Spirit, 21 and keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously and looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ [which will bring you] to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom.

24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight, 25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

“I am Soul Sav-ED” …
“I am Spirit Quicken-ED …
“I am Bodily Re-new-ED …
Already MADE Wholly Whole…
by, through, of Accepting /Taking Gods Offering.

“I will BE Delivered UP to the Clouds, With my Lord” Before… God Sends His Heavenly Wraths and Tribulations UPON this Whole Unrighteous World.

Apparently … according TO YOU, YOU will remain on the Face of this World along with all the Other… Unrighteous, UN-Saved, NON-Quickened, NON- Born Again occupants… experiencing Heavenly Wrath and Heavenly Tribulations…

Don't worry yourself, we are changed in a twinkling of an eye, so you will not feel a thing.

 

[Taken]

We will be on the earth if scripture is to be believed....,

Absolutely There will be Millions ON Earth during the Wrath and Great Trib From Heaven, nor have I said otherwise.

I disagree with your all inclusive… ”We”

2Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

How does…this passage…”THESE PEOPLE”WHO “do not seek to know God…refuse to obey the gospel…”
Apply to they already MADE WHOLE…body, soul, spirit ?

Complete wrath and complete glorification occur on the day the Lord comes to get us.

The Lord does “NOT” come TO Earth TO “GET”… “us”, “we”, “those people”… (guesswork to know WHO exactly you are talking About).

The Lord does NOT “come to Earth TO GET anyone”.

* The Lord has been PREPARED for HIS “marriage Union with His Church”…
* His “BRIDE”, is PREPARED for HER “marriage Union with HER Groom”…
* * To “KNOW” the protocol of a “Jewish, Proposal, Betrothal (ie engagement agreement), Preparation (of the Groom and Bride), the Summoning (and BY WHOM) of the Prepared Bride, and WHERE the Bride is escorted TO (and by Whom, and When and Why, and How) and WHERE the Wedding takes Place, and WHO Blesses the Wedding Union…
You could read, study, learn the Ancient Jewish protocol of a sanctioned Jewish Wedding…
And parallel THAT, to Scripture Which Applies… TO …
Christ Lord Jesus AND His Bride, WHO “IS”His “Prepared CHURCH”.

The Wrath and Great Tribulations (TO BE) Sent down FROM Heaven…upon THIS WHOLE WORLD…
“is NOT” an Event For Christ Jesus’ Bride to Participate IN…
“SHE”, Christs’ Bride… is PREPARED to participate IN HER Marriage, TO HER Groom, IN HER Grooms’ Fathers’ Kingdom….that the Grooms Father Oversees AND Blesses the Marriage Union.

* WHEN…the “Son of Man” who came to Earth, Left Earth, and Shall RETURN TO Earth…
He Shall, Bring HIS BRIDE With Him…and “SHE” shall Reside WITH Her Groom IN HIS Kingdom…ON Earth.
* So ALSO Shall The Grooms “holy Servant Angels” reside IN His Kingdom.

You seem to have a problem with scripture not Paul.

Others LACK of Understanding Spiritual Things, Spiritual Transformations, Spiritual Events…is NOT my problem…
The problematic issue rests with “THOSE” who Lack Spiritual Knowledge, Spiritual Understanding who wrestle with Trying to MAKE Spiritual Understanding BE Understood BY Carnal Minded Logical conclusions. <—->
Which IS a colossal FAIL.

Doing what? , you ask?...,

Jude1
20 But you, beloved, build yourselves up on [the foundation of] your most holy faith [continually progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher], pray in the Holy Spirit, 21 and keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously and looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ [which will bring you] to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom.

24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight, 25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

That’s a great “recipe” to follow While ON This Earth…

Is “THAT” what an Individual IS Expected TO BE “DOING” When They ARE Summoned to “GO become (Married) (Wedded) TO their Groom?

Is a Wedding Gathering / Ceremony… THE TIME, THE EVENT to “Teach, Preach HOW TO become MADE Saved?”

No!

Don't worry yourself, we are changed in a twinkling of an eye, so you will not feel a thing.

I don’t Worry myself…
I am, as clearly stated “already”…MADE Whole…

I have NOT YET been summoned Up off the Face of this Earth…to meet my Groom, unveiled, face to face.
And Still have Works to Do, while ON this Earth, to Glorify God…
Speaking His Truths…and Warning others…
WHO deny His Truth…and Warning others…
OF their dastardly consequences FOR “persecuting, false accusing THEY who ARE Christs’ Bride, and Children of God.”

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[jeffweeder]

Absolutely There will be Millions ON Earth during the Wrath and Great Trib From Heaven, nor have I said otherwise.

I disagree with your all inclusive… ”We”

Why?
The passage speaks of God's righteous judgment.
The Lord is coming to repay those who persecute the Church and also at the same time to bring relief and glory to those who are faithful. Paul includes himself in this climactic future event.


5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire,

How does…this passage…”THESE PEOPLE”WHO “do not seek to know God…refuse to obey the gospel…”
Apply to they already MADE WHOLE…body, soul, spirit ?

The Lord is coming in complete vengeance to eternally separate those who reject the Gospel when he comes to glorify those who accepted it.
What do you find difficult about the whole passage???


9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day ,


As to the rest of your post it is completely void of any scriptures and a common sense approach to the sacred text above. Its all you and your opinion it seems..


Read v 5 and note the worthy reference then read the concluding passage...,

4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire,

11 With this in view, we constantly pray for you, that our God will count you worthy of your calling [to faith] and with [His] power fulfill every desire for goodness, and complete [your] every work of faith, 12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you [by what you do], and you in Him, according to the [precious] grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.