FEAR OR LOVE

[GodsGrace]

Jesus told the Apostles to go and preach and baptize in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

He didn't tell the Apostles to teach hellfire and fear.
Or did He?

Is fear part of what Jesus taught?

I believe LOVE will bring persons to God.

What do you believe would function better to get someone's attention...
fear or love?

 

[Lambano]

What do you believe would function better to get someone's attention...
fear or love?

It depends on the person. Some need to be shaken out of their complacency. Others are drawn by love and turn away from and even hate what they fear.

Fear works in the short term; long term, I think what God want is for us to love Him with all our hearts, minds, souls, and strength. (Deuteronomy 6:5; quoted by Jesus in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.)

 

[GodsGrace]

It depends on the person. Some need to be shaken out of their complacency. Others are drawn by love and turn away from and even hate what they fear.

Fear works in the short term; long term, I think what God want is for us to love Him with all our hearts, minds, souls, and strength. (Deuteronomy 6:5; quoted by Jesus in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.)

Agreed.
I stated in a different thread about how different persons will respond to different teachings.
But Jesus showed us the love that God has for humanity - His best creation.

Even if someone shows up on the Christian doorstep out of fear - he will end up living a life of love - as much as is possible.

There's a member on here who is obsessed with hell and I fail to understand why.
I doubt that's a good way with which to present God.

God loves us enough to die for us...
I believe this is what should be taught about the Christian faith.

 

[Lambano]

Even if someone shows up on the Christian doorstep out of fear - he will end up living a life of love - as much as is possible.

I'm not sure that's true. Some never grow up out of the fear stage. They stay self-focused and afraid to do anything.

It makes me ask, how much of our growth is us, and how much is God's responsibility?

 

[Lambano]

There's a member on here who is obsessed with hell and I fail to understand why.

I understand all too well, because I too came to Christ in response to a hellfire sermon. And I stayed that way for 30 years, never really being able to trust God.

 

[JustMe]

Jesus told the Apostles to go and preach and baptize in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

He didn't tell the Apostles to teach hellfire and fear.
Or did He?

Is fear part of what Jesus taught?

I believe LOVE will bring persons to God.

What do you believe would function better to get someone's attention...
fear or love?

My spiritual journey began long ago and continues today, initially influenced by a significant amount of unhealthy fear and reverence toward God, shaped by my parents and the church where I was raised. I suspect God had a plan all along.

Later, after developing a more genuine and effective saving faith and being guided to Christ when I got married, that fear transformed into a loving relationship, accompanied by sincere reverence and worship of God.

I believe God uses whatever means He chooses to draw people away from darkness and into His light.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not sure that's true. Some never grow up out of the fear stage. They stay self-focused and afraid to do anything.

It makes me ask, how much of our growth is us, and how much is God's responsibility?

Since we have free will, we cannot put all of the responsibility on the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit will be our helper if we AGREE to let Him be....
if we allow Him to be of help.

God is responsible for for having forgiven our sins and for forgiving future sins.
He's responsible for being our advocate and for having paid the price for sin.

Romans 6:16 states that we are slaves to the one to whom we PRESENT OURSELVES.
We present OURSELVES.

Romans 12 tells us to BE TRANSFORMED. It doesn't say to just wait around and somehow it'll happen magically.

Jesus said to be prepared...so it sounds like we have to do the preparing.
He commanded us to abide in Him...something we must do.
He said to ACT on His words, like the wise man....also something we must do.

That's

 

[GodsGrace]

I understand all too well, because I too came to Christ in response to a hellfire sermon. And I stayed that way for 30 years, never really being able to trust God.

Seems like you and another poster on this thread came to God out of a message of fear.
That's sad I think....
But, yes, Jesus also did warn.
I wish some younger folk would post (not that we're old !)...
I think fear would not even work these days.

 

[Lambano]

I think fear would not even work these days.

Why do you suppose that would be?

I’ve got some theories, but I’m going to sit back and listen for a while.

 

[HealthyShape]

Fear functions better to gain people's attention, this can be seen in all the negative news and fear-focused videos on social platforms, titles engineered exactly for this purpose etc.

However, for a long term, living in love is better than living in fear, obviously. And healthier.

 

[Lambano]

Fear functions better to gain people's attention, this can be seen in all the negative news and fear-focused videos on social platforms, titles engineered exactly for this purpose etc.

However, for a long term, living in love is better than living in fear, obviously. And healthier.

From a practical standpoint, fear works. That’s why we keep using it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do you suppose that would be?

I’ve got some theories, but I’m going to sit back and listen for a while.

Hey, I'd like to sit back and listen too!

Anyway, it'll probably be the same theories...
but leaving the house for dinner.
Later.

 

[Lambano]

My spiritual journey began long ago and continues today, initially influenced by a significant amount of unhealthy fear and reverence toward God, shaped by my parents and the church where I was raised. I suspect God had a plan all along.

I noticed you used the term “reverence”. I think that’s healthy. In his book God in Search of Man, Rabbi Abraham Heschel says that the Hebrew word usually translated “fear” in the context of “the fear of God”, יָרֵא “yara”, actually connotes reverence, respect, awe, and yes, a little real fear in the background.

Unfortunately, K-mutt ate the book before I could finish it.

 

[JustMe]

I noticed you used the term “reverence”. I think that’s healthy. In his book God in Search of Man, Rabbi Abraham Heschel says that the Hebrew word usually translated “fear” in the context of “the fear of God”, יָרֵא “yara”, actually connotes reverence, respect, awe, and yes, a little real fear in the background.

Unfortunately, K-mutt ate the book before I could finish it.

Yes, thanks for the support

 

[GodsGrace]

I noticed you used the term “reverence”. I think that’s healthy. In his book God in Search of Man, Rabbi Abraham Heschel says that the Hebrew word usually translated “fear” in the context of “the fear of God”, יָרֵא “yara”, actually connotes reverence, respect, awe, and yes, a little real fear in the background.

Unfortunately, K-mutt ate the book before I could finish it.

Looks like you got to the important part just in time.

 

[talons]

Jesus told the Apostles to go and preach and baptize in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

. Most certainly ! I am sure the apostles would speak the things they heard from Jesus .

Matthew28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This was said by Jesus before he was crucified .
Luke9
Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

2And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

He didn't tell the Apostles to teach hellfire and fear.
Or did He?

He told them to teach that which He had commanded them . See Matt 28:20 above .
@GodsGrace , would you say that Jesus preached hellfire ?

Mark9
43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Is fear part of what Jesus taught?

No but we should have a very firm understanding of a reverence for the Almighty God and the KJV does call this fear .

I believe LOVE will bring persons to God.

Observation of the way Christians live day to day also .

What do you believe would function better to get someone's attention...
fear or love?

All people are not the same by any means as you know , could this be why we here so many different sermons ?

 

[GodsGrace]

. Most certainly ! I am sure the apostles would speak the things they heard from Jesus .

Matthew28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Yes sir.
In fact the Apostles did write what they were taught...
Including Paul and Luke.
We are trusting that the Apostles correctly passed on what Jesus taught them.

This was said by Jesus before he was crucified .
Luke9
Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

2And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

He told them to teach that which He had commanded them . See Matt 28:20 above .
@GodsGrace , would you say that Jesus preached hellfire ?

I'd say the He most definitely warned about hell, so we have to believe that it exists and that whatever hell is, God won't be there so it would not be a good place to be. Pure evil and no good at all - hell indeed.

But I believe Jesus taught obedience to God and love for others more than He spoke about hell.

He taught about the Kingdom...how to get there (here on earth) and how to remain there...
He taught about the harvest and to be ready.

Hell would go hand in hand I'd say...
because if we do not OBEY God...then we will be lost.
Obey - to the best of our ability.
(some take this to mean that we must be 100% perfect, but only Jesus was perfect).

Mark9
43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

No but we should have a very firm understanding of a reverence for the Almighty God and the KJV does call this fear .

§Agreed.
We are not to fear God but to respect Him, revere would be a better word, as you posted....
and yes, the KJV tranlates this as fear but not fear in the sense of being afraid.

Observation of the way Christians live day to day also .

Right.
Example works very well....keeping our word, practicing what we preach, is important.

All people are not the same by any means as you know , could this be why we here so many different sermons ?

Talon, I don't know anymore why so many different sermons are preached.
It seems to me that Christianity has been here for 2 thousand years and the teachings have remained the same.
At the reformation some beliefs about the nature of God changed....But God does not change...
and about 200 years ago we began to see some teachings that are just not biblical at all and are, in fact, heretical.
Heretical because they are not orthodox and were NEVER taught in the church.

Arianism has returned - teaching that Jesus is not God - the very foundational core of Christianity.
Why this sounds so appealing is a mystery to me.

And that will be the end of my speech!
Nice to see you around.

 

[quietthinker]

First of all I think dismissing the word 'should' is a smart thing.
'Should' always assumes it knows, when in fact it is just manipulative.

Secondly, there is nothing attractive about fear for this brown duck but I am aware that slabs of inhabitants get off on fear. The film industry exploits it with an avalanche of fear based movies......a testimony to the depth of the sickness of the soul.

Hell is what we create for ourselves and others. Just look at global news with the intensity of deception, oppression and destruction increasing. Yes, there is and will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, not because God has imposed it but because we (humans) have created the reasons for it.

Jesus return is a rescue mission from the fear and destruction perpetrated by both men and demons.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do you suppose that would be?

I’ve got some theories, but I’m going to sit back and listen for a while.

My basic idea is that the younger generations do not respect authority and have no real objective moral values.
There is no sin, no God, so anything is allowed; there are no consequences except maybe some physical ones - but none spiritual.

Atheism has overtaken our young.
The New Atheists convinced many that God does not exist because He cannot be proven impirically.
Started years ago with the Professors who were already liberal and open minded to EVERYTHING.
GK Chesterton said that a person that believes in everything
believes in nothing. (a terrible quote, I'm sure).

So why should fear work? (not that I think it's the best method).
There is nothing to fear.

 

[GodsGrace]

First of all I think dismissing the word 'should' is a smart thing.
'Should' always assumes it knows, when in fact it is just manipulative.

Where is the word SHOULD used to which you're referring?

Secondly, there is nothing attractive about fear for this brown duck but I am aware that slabs of inhabitants get off on fear. The film industry exploits it with an avalanche of fear based movies......a testimony to the depth of the sickness of the soul.

Hell is what we create for ourselves and others. Just look at global news with the intensity of deception, oppression and destruction increasing. Yes, there is and will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, not because God has imposed it but because we (humans) have created the reasons for it.

Agreed.
Also, let's say that those that do not end up with God do not want to be with God.
It is their choice.

Also, there is some good also here, not just bad.
If it were all bad...it would already be the true hell where there is no good at all.

Jesus return is a rescue mission from the fear and destruction perpetrated by both men and demons.

Sounds good.
We need salvation in a few different ways...