"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

Yes, John 1:14 is speaking about the moral glory of Jesus, which he developed and what was developed in him by God His Father, he was full of grace and truth.

Kind regards
Trevor.

I have to admit Trevor that it becomes tiring for me to debate whether or not Jesus is God with persons who claim to be Christian. Christians have always believed that Jesus is God and those who did not believe it (in the early church) were labeled as heretics.

Now, actually, it is still a heretical belief.
I hesitate to use that term because it has taken on new meanings these days...
but if we stay with the true meaning of the word - stating that Jesus is Not God IS a heretical teaching.

Your understanding of John 1:14 is most incorrect if I may so so.

NOTHING was developed in John 1:14.....

John 1:14 states that THE WORD menioned in John 1:1 became flesh.

Moral glory cannot become flesh.

The question that you cannot answer is this:
WHAT is the WORD mentioned in John 1:1 ?

THAT WORD becomes flesh.

WHAT became flesh?

If we would just put aside what we've been taught and only read those two verses,,,,
the Trinity would become clear as sunlight.

Are you willing?


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

​

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


THE WORD became flesh Trevor.
NOT His glory, NOT His truth.

Glory and Truth are within a person and are not visible flesh.

I'd like to add the following:

John wrote His gospel late in his life.
The reason he wrote it is because some gnostics were entering into the Christian faith and teaching that Jesus was not God.

John wrote his gospel to combat this heretical idea and to show that Jesus is God.

The reason John wrote was to prove the deity of Jesus.

 

[Lizbeth]

Just as the woman was taken out of the man, so are we taken out of God in Christ, to which we return after His washing.

Amen, but taken out of the man means to be born of His Spirit....born of His substance, which is spirit. But not equal to Him, as Jesus is when in the form of God. A wife/bride is subordinate to her Husband. The woman was made for the Man. All that we have and are is from Him, whereas only God is self-extant I think is the term. He GRANTS the Bride a place at His side in His kind generosity and mercy, to be His counterpart, companion, confidant and emissary, as it were. And wow, that is a plenty high enough calling I would think!

 

[Lizbeth]

And as I have reminded a few here on these boards…..who do you believe, when those who are convinced that they are guided by the spirit, end up with different interpretations of the same Scripture…?

Would God give misleading information to those ones who all appear to be equally sincere?….all equally guided by God’s spirit?
It would be their unity that would identify them…..not their divisions. Anyone can claim to be a Christian….it’s not their words, but their actions that speak louder.

We know by faith, (which is of Spirit), not by the carnal mind. Though we only know in part.

 

[Lizbeth]

Its men that twist things .
Till now all they do see and preach is THAT IS NOT a forest you see my child , its just billions of trees .
They always learning but never able to come to the Truth .
What did paul warn timothy in the sixth chapter of timothy .
IF one agrees not to wholesome words , THE WORDS of CHRIST JESUS
oh they always make STRIFES ABOUT WORDS and etc .
NOTHING NEW under the sun sister . CAUSE they DO JUST THIS
FOR Every time one brings them what is c learly w ritten
what is their response , OH YOU dont know the g reek root word
OR you need semantics , OR you need
YET ITS PRETTY clear what IT SAYS . THEY TWIST IT sister . Their like the greeks
ALWAYS seeking wisdom , sadly its the wisdom of men , NOT GOD .
JESUS is the WISDOM of GOD unto us . HIS WORDS are TRUTH .
His sheep simply BELIEVE those words . But many twist such words
whenever such words GET in the way of their own precept . NOT GOOD at all .

Amen. And the wisdom of God seems like foolishness to the wisdom of men who can't perceive it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just as the woman was taken out of the man, so are we taken out of God in Christ, to which we return after His washing.

Just saw this when closing down....

The woman was taken out of the man.
The woman was, by nature, a human being just as the man was.

If we were taken out of God in the same manner...
we would have the nature of God...not a human nature.

We are innocent and in God when born.
Then we take on the responsibility of a sinful nature when we become responsible for our actions and learn about sin.

When we are washed we return to Christ.
In this understanding it is certainly what the bible teaches.

 

[Lizbeth]

I have to admit Trevor that it becomes tiring for me to debate whether or not Jesus is God with persons who claim to be Christian. Christaians have always believed that Jesus is God and those who did not believe it (in the early church) were labeled as heretics.

Now, actually, it is still a heretical belief.
I hesitate to use that term because it has taken on new meanings these days...
but if we stay with the true meaning of the word - stating that Jesus is Not God IS a heretical teaching.

Your understanding of John 1:14 is most incorrect if I may so so.

NOTHING was developed in John 1:14.....

John 1:14 states that THE WORD menioned in John 1:1 became flesh.

Moral glory cannot become flesh.

The question that you cannot answer is this:
WHAT is the WORD mentioned in John 1:1 ?

THAT WORD becomes flesh.

WHAT became flesh?

If we would just put aside what we've been taught and only read those two verses,,,,
the Trinity would become clear as sunlight.

Are you willing?


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

​

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


THE WORD became flesh Trevor.
NOT His glory, NOT His truth.

Glory and Truth are within a person and are not visible flesh.

I'd like to add the following:

John wrote His gospel late in his life.
The reason he wrote it is because some gnostics were entering into the Christian faith and teaching that Jesus was not God.

John wrote his gospel to combat this heretical idea and to show that Jesus is God.

The reason John wrote was to prove the deity of Jesus.

Amen. It is wearying trying to talk to those who don't have ears to hear. Ears to hear comes not from the carnal mind which can't hear/perceive....it has to come from the Lord, from His Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

We know by faith, (which is of Spirit), not by the carnal mind. Though we only know in part.

@Auntie Jane asked you an interesting question which I also ask many times.

I'd say that one of the answers is this:

We do not all believe the same because of men who teach incorrect doctrine which is also heretical doctrine....
and there will always be those that listen, hear and believe THEM instead of what the bible has taught from the beginning of Christianity.

The JW cult would be one of those sects that do NOT teach Christianity but a religion invented about 200 years ago.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen. It is wearying trying to talk to those who don't have ears to hear. Ears to hear comes not from the carnal mind which can't hear/perceive....it has to come from the Lord, from His Spirit.

Yes ma'am.


1 Corinthians 2:12-14
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,

13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot * understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen, but taken out of the man means to be born of His Spirit....born of His substance, which is spirit. But not equal to Him, as Jesus is when in the form of God. A wife/bride is subordinate to her Husband. The woman was made for the Man. All that we have and are is from Him, whereas only God is self-extant I think is the term. He GRANTS the Bride a place at His side in His kind generosity and mercy, to be His counterpart, companion, confidant and emissary, as it were. And wow, that is a plenty high enough calling I would think!

Also thanks for exposing that lil god syndrome stuff .
THEY got big swolled up heads and pride has overcome them .
AS IF when paul was writing when he said equal with GOD
that this applies to man . THEY got that dead wrong .
The people who sit under them love their lil gods
teaching . WHY
cause it puffs up and exalts MAN , NOT GOD .
And in the heart of man lies wickedness and the desire to be seen and exalted .
But in the heart of a sheep is the desire to EXALT GOD and not oneself .
WE owe ALL to HIM . As if anyone here is EQUAL TO GOD .
Lucifer became enamoured and said I shall be AS GOD .
DIDNT bode well . THE CREATOR ALONE is worthy of exaltation
by the created . The sooner folks realize that the far better off they had been .

 

[Lizbeth]

Also thanks for exposing that lil god syndrome stuff .
THEY got big swolled up heads and pride has overcome them .
AS IF when paul was writing when he said equal with GOD
that this applies to man . THEY got that dead wrong .
The people who sit under them love their lil gods
teaching . WHY
cause it puffs up and exalts MAN , NOT GOD .
And in the heart of man lies wickedness and the desire to be seen and exalted .
But in the heart of a sheep is the desire to EXALT GOD and not oneself .
WE owe ALL to HIM . As if anyone here is EQUAL TO GOD .
Lucifer became enamoured and said I shall be AS GOD .
DIDNT bode well . THE CREATOR ALONE is worthy of exaltation
by the created . The sooner folks realize that the far better off they had been .

Amen. Lucifer had come to mind...that was his downfall, and Eve's too. We are not to go beyond what is written, and the bible doesn't teach that we will be God.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen. Lucifer had come to mind...that was his downfall, and Eve's too. We are not to go beyond what is written, and the bible doesn't teach that we will be God.

To the trenches my dear sister . The hour is late .

 

[ScottA]

Amen, but taken out of the man means to be born of His Spirit....born of His substance, which is spirit. But not equal to Him, as Jesus is when in the form of God. A wife/bride is subordinate to her Husband. The woman was made for the Man. All that we have and are is from Him, whereas only God is self-extant I think is the term. He GRANTS the Bride a place at His side in His kind generosity and mercy, to be His counterpart, companion, confidant and emissary, as it were. And wow, that is a plenty high enough calling I would think!

Indeed, all that is made--even the women--that part in the image of God taken out, is made by and for Christ.

But the difference between the man and the woman, is that part of the image that God has created is the mother of sin--and--and as that image unfolds all of God's creations produce "in kind", meaning, in the case of the women from whom all men except Adam are born, are born in the "kind" of sin. Thus, that sinful nature.

Even Jesus was born of that sinful nature--born to fulfill "And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— *Genesis 3:22). Which Jesus did, breaking the bonds of sin by living without sin, yet fulfilling also the requirement of "you shall surely die" for all who would come to join Him as one new man.

 

[Marvelloustime]

To the trenches my dear sister . The hour is late .

 

[Aunty Jane]

We know by faith, (which is of Spirit), not by the carnal mind. Though we only know in part.

The question then becomes....”who is WE”? Anyone can claim to be the ones guided by spirit....claiming it and believing it is not the same as proving it. The proof would be in the unity as Paul stated. (1 Cor 1:10) That does not fit the many claims made by those who have different interpretations of the same Scripture.

 

[saved by grace 101]

The question then becomes....”who is WE”? Anyone can claim to be the ones guided by spirit....claiming it and believing it is not the same as proving it. The proof would be in the unity as Paul stated. (1 Cor 1:10) That does not fit the many claims made by those who have different interpretations of the same Scripture.

Jesus said:
Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. John7:18

 

[ScottA]

Just saw this when closing down....

The woman was taken out of the man.
The woman was, by nature, a human being just as the man was.

If we were taken out of God in the same manner...
we would have the nature of God...not a human nature.

We are innocent and in God when born.
Then we take on the responsibility of a sinful nature when we become responsible for our actions and learn about sin.

When we are washed we return to Christ.
In this understanding it is certainly what the bible teaches.

I just gave answer to this in post #852.

But the matter is that of the "the only begotten of the Father" (John 1:14, 1:18, 3:16 and 3:18). Creation is a different matter, from which came both good and evil, which God has done to "divide the light from the darkness" (the good from the evil). The Light of Christ then shown upon this created humanity, "To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death" (John 1:79). Thus, came new life to those who believe--new life from God in Christ.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus said:
Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. John7:18

We can all make up excuses for believing or not believing what is generally accepted by Christendom’s many denominations.....but these excuses are not accepted if we are genuine students of the Bible, and not just sponges absorbing “theology” from a corrupted religious system.


Go back to the first century and see the parallel.....the majority of the Jewish people accepted what was served up to them by their religious leaders....it was hundreds of years of adopted teachings and traditions along with blatant departures from their Scriptures....but taught to them as Scriptural truth.

Jesus came to set things straight but the environment was hostile.

It was the majority who rejected the truth he taught, whilst a minority accepted his teachings and became his disciples.

We have the same situation again...an accepted but corrupted religious system is dictating the beliefs and practices of the majority, and telling any who dispute them that they are being misled.....who was misled in Jesus’ day? It was the misinformed majority, and when Jesus was to return, it was going to be the same situation again.

He said that “few” would be found on the road to life, whereas the majority would be on the wrong road, to “destruction”....(Matt 7:13-14)....in spite of having a lot of company, that destination is not something anyone would choose willingly.

Those who choose badly will pay the price....so we need to make informed choices, not ones imposed by a divided and disagreeing religious system. The devil can make black look white and vice versa....can we tell the difference?

 

[Lizbeth]

The question then becomes....”who is WE”? Anyone can claim to be the ones guided by spirit....claiming it and believing it is not the same as proving it. The proof would be in the unity as Paul stated. (1 Cor 1:10) That does not fit the many claims made by those who have different interpretations of the same Scripture.

Paul did not state the proof was in the unity.....that is false. He was simply exhorting the church to be of one mind in that 1 Cor 1:10 verse.

I really don't quite know how to explain faith to you. Faith doesn't need "proof". And we can be going by faith and still make mistakes.....and if/when we do, God is able to correct us, as long as we are willing and teachable. This is not an exact science as many people would love it to be.

 

[amigo de christo]

The question then becomes....”who is WE”? Anyone can claim to be the ones guided by spirit....claiming it and believing it is not the same as proving it. The proof would be in the unity as Paul stated. (1 Cor 1:10) That does not fit the many claims made by those who have different interpretations of the same Scripture.

the unity of ecumeincism is of anti christ . come not nigh its doors and heed not its love .
for its love is of a harlot . And it has infected most every single place now known to man .
And grows daily . So , YEAH THAT AINT THE UNITY WE SUPPOSED TO UNDER . NOT even close .

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul did not state the proof was in the unity.....that is false. He was simply exhorting the church to be of one mind in that 1 Cor 1:10 verse.

I really don't quite know how to explain faith to you. Faith doesn't need "proof". And we can be going by faith and still make mistakes.....and if/when we do, God is able to correct us, as long as we are willing and teachable. This is not an exact science as many people would love it to be.

you are looking at A UNITY UNITY generation sister . I DID try and warn us ITS ALL OVER the place .
THEY GONNA MERGE SISTER under false unity , false love
beliving as one it be GOD . Its gonna take all captive to the lie .
T his people needs to bible up fast and figure out what god , what christ , OR GOD AND CHRIST , its been following .
This is a fact . AND they grow very weary with any who dares to warn against
the love of harlot and her ecumenicism . IT will take them . to an adventist it cometh in as one
and to a methodist as it is one . THAT IS WHAT IT DID and now they will merge
under what all beleive is love and of God . Only its that ol dragon .