Sabbath Keeping - I would have been stoned

[rockytopva]

I have often thought, especially as I burn my own firewood.... That I would have been that guy!

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. - Numbers 15

 

[HealthyShape]

Only if you actually lived in Israel, in a time in which people were actually stoned for such things (Israel was fallen away from the Law most of the time) and if you were belonging to the ungodly Jews who were desecrating Sabbaths.

I guess that the combination of these three things would not happen in any Christian who thinks about these things today. You would probably live somewhere in Europe, rather. And you would live according to your conscience and according to the laws of your specific tribe/nation as you do today.

People today read the Jewish narratives in the Old Testament and imagine it is their history, but it is not.

 

[bro.tan]

I have often thought, especially as I burn my own firewood.... That I would have been that guy!

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. - Numbers 15

That still apply today, people don't really understand the seriousness in keeping the lord Commandment, which of course includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week.
Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation, Paul says in (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.

Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

In (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

 

[Button]

I have often thought, especially as I burn my own firewood.... That I would have been that guy!

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. - Numbers 15

If God does not change,how do we reconcile that God of Moses is God who was Jesus on Earth?

 

[Wrangler]

If God does not change,how do we reconcile that God of Moses is God who was Jesus on Earth?

Great question!

The Chosen did a great job explaining it. If you read Luke 4, where Jesus quotes Isaiah 61 (one of my favorite verses, BTW’) you’ll notice he stops at the first half of v2. In the show, the rabbi asks why did he stop reading at ‘the time of the Lord’s favor has come’? Why didn’t he continue with:

‘and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, and provide for those who grieve in Zion—to bestow on them a crown of beauty?’​

The fictional Jesus explained it is not time for vengeance; it’s time for favor.

The way I reconcile is parse OT law with NT grace. Before we receive grace, we need to understand our depravity. I personally believe humans also need, not just an understanding of God’s divine justice, but also the history of men trying to satisfy that divine standard on their own power, which should be very humbling.

Most of the OT is the history of man rebelling, failing to submit to God. The cycle repeats for 1,000‘s of years. A rational mind should conclude 2 things:

1. It’s hopeless; pointless to try to meet God’s standard as it is not in our nature.
2. Humility is needed to ask for mercy.

I’ve often said the human mind cannot easily accept the simplicity of the NT. We want TO DO something. Climb up Mt. Sinai. Conquer the infidels. Prophecy God’s word. I’m convinced HUMILITY is the first divine attribute. Without humility, we cannot accept God’s simple terms. Sure, we all want a rescuer in our back pocket, a heavenly 911. Only a few are humble enough to give control/lordship of our lives.

 

[rockytopva]

That still apply today, people don't really understand the seriousness in keeping the lord Commandment, which of course includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week.
Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation, Paul says in (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.

Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

In (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

Let me keep the law and become like... Reverend Polar Bear! The deadest preacher this side of the Rocky mountains!

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 11:3

I believe such teachings as being taught in this thread lead to spiritual coldness.... And in the words of the minister below @29:00, "Folks are coming into the church, and they are coming for something, but it is so dead and cold in our churches, until you can ice-skate down to the pulpit! And whose standing behind that pulpit yawl? Rev Polar Bear! Cold as ice! The first church of frigid-air! No deliverance! No Life! No Holy Ghost!"

So how do you know you are in the incorrectness of a church? Just examine the spirituality! And to add a thought of the minister....People are coming to the church looking like totem poles!

 

[rockytopva]

Or... Worse than Brother Polar Bear... The modern day Pharisee or Sadducee (noting... Sad...You...See!) - 6 Signs That You Might Be a Pharisee - CultureWatch

 

[MonoBiblical]

Or... Worse than Brother Polar Bear... The modern day Pharisee or Sadducee (noting... Sad...You...See!) - 6 Signs That You Might Be a Pharisee - CultureWatch

The Pharisees were of Judah, and Saducees weren't not Pharisees, but Levites. Thus, a problem already.

 

[Adventageous]

I have often thought, especially as I burn my own firewood.... That I would have been that guy!

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. - Numbers 15

This might help you:

Sticks & Stones - "Do YOU stone the sabbath-breaker?"

If you need further assistance with the text as applicable today, please let me know. Thank you. (Skip intros if needed, to beginning of study at around 11:00 minutes)

 

[Button]

Great question!

The Chosen did a great job explaining it. If you read Luke 4, where Jesus quotes Isaiah 61 (one of my favorite verses, BTW’) you’ll notice he stops at the first half of v2. In the show, the rabbi asks why did he stop reading at ‘the time of the Lord’s favor has come’? Why didn’t he continue with:

‘and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, and provide for those who grieve in Zion—to bestow on them a crown of beauty?’​

The fictional Jesus explained it is not time for vengeance; it’s time for favor.

The way I reconcile is parse OT law with NT grace. Before we receive grace, we need to understand our depravity. I personally believe humans also need, not just an understanding of God’s divine justice, but also the history of men trying to satisfy that divine standard on their own power, which should be very humbling.

Most of the OT is the history of man rebelling, failing to submit to God. The cycle repeats for 1,000‘s of years. A rational mind should conclude 2 things:

1. It’s hopeless; pointless to try to meet God’s standard as it is not in our nature.
2. Humility is needed to ask for mercy.

I’ve often said the human mind cannot easily accept the simplicity of the NT. We want TO DO something. Climb up Mt. Sinai. Conquer the infidels. Prophecy God’s word. I’m convinced HUMILITY is the first divine attribute. Without humility, we cannot accept God’s simple terms. Sure, we all want a rescuer in our back pocket, a heavenly 911. Only a few are humble enough to give control/lordship of our lives.

God's lordship is what has created this world we live in as sinners first. God did that.


,we have to navigate our lives asking for guidance away from what God first created out flesh embedded nature to be.
By asking him to save us from being what the first of our kind,Adam and Eve, did. And therein led God to further his plan by making us in their fallen image and likeness.

Which remains until God leads us to seek to be like they were before they fell. Linked in understanding of what God intends.

This is God's world. We're tasked with stepping on the right tiles in his maze so to be more than he made us to be first.
If we succeed,he changes us accordingly.

But we were always fallen first.

 

[Aunty Jane]

If God does not change,how do we reconcile that God of Moses is God who was Jesus on Earth?

I’d like to know how to reconcile a God who can talk to his other selves and be in three different places at the same time....only one prays to the other, and defers to his will, which does not speak of equality.

The Father knows things that the son does not. (Matt 24:37-39)
God is an immortal who cannot die, but Jesus died.

We have to “know the only true God and the one he sent” if we want everlasting life....why only two....why don’t we need to know the third equal party? (John 17:3)

Lots of things not adding up here...

 

[Button]

I’d like to know how to reconcile a God who can talk to his other selves and be in three different places at the same time....only one prays to the other, and defers to his will, which does not speak of equality.

That sounds like the Trinity doctrine. I believe that is a close handed topic here so I won't comment beyond this.

The Father knows things that the son does not. (Matt 24:37-39)
God is an immortal who cannot die, but Jesus died.

I don't think Jesus died. Jesus commended his spirit back to God who gave it him.
Jesus appeared to die to the mortals who both judged him worthy of death,and those who followed him as their teacher.

When he resurrected there days later,his disciples knew his teachings were truth.

His teachings insured eternal life in the spirit. The second death has no hold upon him or those in him.

We have to “know the only true God and the one he sent” if we want everlasting life....why only two....why don’t we need to know the third equal party? (John 17:3)

Lots of things not adding up here...

That's why the word of God is alive beyond what is contained in man's ideology.

 

[Adventageous]

I’d like to know how to reconcile a God who can talk to his other selves and be in three different places at the same time....only one prays to the other, and defers to his will, which does not speak of equality.

The question is flawed from its asking, and in the manner of its asking, since it represents an ignorantly (not knowing) false presentation of JEHOVAH Elohiym. It is not as if a singular Person / Being is simply speaking to themself. The scripture does not present a unitarian JEHOVAH Elohiym. To continue to say such things, after being shown (link below) simply means, that afterwards, one is purposefully misrepresenting another's position to appear correct in their own a prioric incorrect position.

The Person / Being of the Father, speaks to the Person / Being of the Son, and likewise to the Person / Being of the Holy Ghost / Spirit also.

JEHOVAH is the singular family name (think of it like a last name, "Smith").
Elohiym is the numeration of the plurality of Persons / Beings that share in that singular name, which singular name stems from the Father.

1. JEHOVAH - the Ancient of Days, aka JEHOVAH 'Sr.'; "the only true God" (ton monon alethinon theon)​

2. JEHOVAH - the only-begotten Son, aka Jesus JEHOVAH, or JEHOVAH E/Immanuel, or JEHOVAH 'Jr.' (ton monogene, nothing to do with time, only nature, relationship)​

3. The Holy Ghost / Spirit of JEHOVAH; "another Comforter", &c.​

They are the family JEHOVAH Elohiym. They are the marriage JEHOVAH Elohiym. They are the team JEHOVAH Elohiym. They are the trio JEHOVAH Elohiym. &c.

Please, read this book to have a correct understanding of the actual position on JEHOVAH Elohiym, and cease from an incorrect straw-man (not real position) of one - Godhead - The Eternal Heavenly Trio : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Yes, the Person / Being of the Son prays (asks of) to the Person / Being of His Father, in His (the Son's) Deity & humanity. The relationship of Son is eternal to that of the Father. If at any point the Son was not in eternal existence with the Father, then the Father could not be Father, and as such an attribute (of Father) would have been gained, making the Ancient of Days mercurial, evolutionary in His own existence (which is error).

Yes, there is / are eternal heirarchial position among Godhead of JEHOVAH Elohiym.

1. Father​

2. Son​

3. Holy Ghost /Spirit​

The Son always honours His Father. The Father honours those who honour Him, &c.

Equality, will depend on which aspect one is referring to in the context. The Son sits on the right hand of (at equal level) the Majesty (Father) on the eternal Throne of Deity, which is surrounded by the light of the Holy Ghost / Spirit, and His presence. No created being can do that.

The Bible states:

Mat_11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.​

​

Luk_10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.​

That "no man knoweth the Son, but the Father", &
that "neither knoweth any man the Father, save (except) the Son ..."

That speaks to infinite, all-knowing of the very Person / Being of each, of Father, and of the Son. How can any creature "knoweth ... the Father" in all that the Father is? Cannot ever be. Since the scripture states that God is "past finding out". It also says the same of the Person / Being of the Son. The Son is just as infinite / eternal as the Father.

 

[Adventageous]

We have to “know the only true God and the one he sent” if we want everlasting life....why only two....why don’t we need to know the third equal party? (John 17:3)

You simply do not understand (are in ignorance, not knowing of) what Jhn. 17:3 actually states.

John 17:2-3:

Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.​

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.​

Joh 17:3 αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον​

Jhn. 17:3, Jesus, as the eternal Son, is praying (in the Holy Ghost/ Spirit) to His eternal Father, in Heaven, and it is inspired by the eternal Holy Ghost / Spirit, since Jesus is praying and it is written (Jhn. 17:8,14,17 KJB) as scripture (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21 KJB, &c.). Jesus is also the "Christ" or "anointed" by the Holy Ghost / Spirit in the text. All Three Persons / Beings are mentioned in the text, though the Holy Ghost less obvious, as the Holy Ghost is more silent, as the 'camera-man' behind the scenes, as it were, inspiring the prayer of Jesus, and the words to be recorded as scripture for us to read in our own day / time.

1. "the only true God" - "τον μονον αληθινον θεον" = the Person / Being of the Father, the word "alethinon" meaning 'true' or 'underived', referring to His own nature (see vs 2 in relation). The Father's eternal nature is His own, and is derived from no one.​

​

"and" (in addition to)​

​

2. "Jesus [JEHOVAH is salvation] Christ [Anointed by the Holy Ghost / Spirit of the Father]. The Son's nature stems from the Father's nature, which is why the Son is "ton monogene", or "the only-begotten" (the only one with the same nature), the only Son with the Nature of the Father. Only in that way are their natures differing. In this way is the Son the 'second-self' (a descriptive, yet a differing Person / Being) to that of the Father, as Eve was to Adam in type.​

​

3. The "Christ" is a reference to the "anointing" of Jesus [JEHOVAH is salvation] by the Holy Ghost / Spirit, see Luke. 4:18; Isa. 61:1 KJB, and the prayer of Jesus is being inspired by the Holy Ghost / Spirit in the first place, & the text itself, is inspired of the Holy Ghost / Spirit, and thus in every single text of scripture which is of God is inspired of the Holy Ghost, or witnessed by the Holy Ghost (such as satan's words in the beginning, or words of enemeis of God, &c).​

JEHOVAH Elohiym - Godhead:

(1.) The Person / Being of the Father (Mat. 6:9; Luk. 11:2 KJB), JEHOVAH (“the LORD”, Gen. 19:24b; Zec. 3:2b KJB), the “Ancient of Days” (Dan. 7:9,13,22 KJB), “the only true God” (Jhn. 17:3 KJB; “τον μονον αληθινον θεον”), “God” (Psa. 45:7b.; Heb. 1:9b.; Jhn. 1:1b KJB, “τον θεον”), speaking to the Son: ​

​

(A.) Revelation 4:11 KJB - Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.​

​

(B.) Revelation 10:6 KJB - And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:​

​

(C). Genesis 1:6 KJB - And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.​

​

(2.) The Person / Being of the Son, Jesus JEHOVAH ((H3444; H3068) “ישׁועתה ליהוה”; Gen. 49:18; Exo. 14:13; 2 Chr. 20:17; Jon. 2:10; Psa. 119:174 HOT) or JEHOVAH Immanuel ((Psa. 46:7,11) Psa. 46:8,12 HOT, (H3068; H5973; H430), “יהוה ... עמנו... אלהי”), “the LORD” (Gen. 19:24a.; Zec. 3:2a.; Heb. 1:10; Psa. 102:12,25-27; Heb. 13:4-8), “the son of man” (Dan. 7:13), “the only begotten” (Jhn. 1:14,18, 3:16,18; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9, is basically monogene (μονογενῆ; Jhn. 3:16; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9) or monogenes (μονογενὴς; Jhn. 1:18) or monogenous (μονογενοῦς; Jhn. 1:14, 3:18)), “the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father” (2 Jhn. 1:3; Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ πατρός), “the express image of his (God, The Father’s) person” (Heb. 1:3; χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ), being Himself also “God” (Jhn. 1:1c., “θεος ην ο λογος”; Jhn. 1:14,18, 3:16,18; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9; Psa. 47:5a.; Heb. 1:8,9a.), even “O God” (Heb. 1:9, “ο θεος”), and the “son of man” (Dan. 7:13), the “fellow” (Zec. 13:7), who acted, “made” all things (Jhn. 1:1-3; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:1-3), on behalf of the Father’s will (Pro. 8:22-36; Jhn. 5:30, 6:38), though, a father in His own right (Isa. 9:6; Heb. 2:13; Isa. 8:16,18; Jhn. 13:33), and yet also the perfect Son (Num. 19:2; “without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke”), the “Angel (Messenger)” (Mal. 3:1b) “of the LORD (Father)” (Zec. 3:1); “Michael” (Dan. 10:13,21, 12:1; 1 Thes. 4:16; Jud. 1:9; Rev. 12:7), the great “I am” (Jhn. 8:58; ἐγὼ εἰμί), see also Jhn. 4:26, 6:20,35,41,48,51, 8:12,18,24,28,58, 9:5, 10:7,9,11,14, 11:25, 14:6, 15:1,5, 18:5,6,8, 13:19:​

​

(A.) John 1:1 KJB - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

John 1:2 KJB - The same was in the beginning with God.​

John 1:3 KJB - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.​

​

(B.) Ephesians 3:9 KJB - And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

​

(C.) Colossians 1:16 KJB - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:​

​

(D.) Hebrews 1:1 KJB - God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,​

Hebrews 1:2 KJB - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;​

​

(E.) Genesis 1:7 KJB - And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.​

​

(3.) The Person / Being of the Holy Ghost / Spirit, the “another Comforter” (Jhn. 14:16 KJB), the “Spirit of truth.” (Jhn. 14:17 KJB), “Comforter ... the Holy Ghost” (Jhn. 14:26 KJB), the “LORD” (Zec. 3:2c KJB), and a father in His own right (Mat. 1:18; Luk. 1:35; 1 Pet. 1:23; Jhn. 1:13, 3:3-8; 1 Jhn. 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18 KJB), yet differing than the Father or the Son (Isa. 48:16; Jhn. 14:26 KJB):​

​

(A.) Job 33:4 KJB - The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.​

​

(B.) Genesis 1:2 KJB - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.​

​

(C.) Genesis 1:31 KJB - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.​

 

[Button]

The question is flawed from its asking, and in the manner of its asking, since it represents an ignorantly (not knowing) false presentation of JEHOVAH Elohiym. It is not as if a singular Person / Being is simply speaking to themself. The scripture does not present a unitarian JEHOVAH Elohiym. To continue to say such things, after being shown (link below) simply means, that afterwards, one is purposefully misrepresenting another's position to appear correct in their own a prioric incorrect position.

The Person / Being of the Father, speaks to the Person / Being of the Son, and likewise to the Person / Being of the Holy Ghost / Spirit also.

JEHOVAH is the singular family name (think of it like a last name, "Smith").
Elohiym is the numeration of the plurality of Persons / Beings that share in that singular name, which singular name stems from the Father.

1. JEHOVAH - the Ancient of Days, aka JEHOVAH 'Sr.'; "the only true God" (ton monon alethinon theon)​

2. JEHOVAH - the only-begotten Son, aka Jesus JEHOVAH, or JEHOVAH E/Immanuel, or JEHOVAH 'Jr.' (ton mongene, nothing to do with time, only nature, relationship)​

3. The Holy Ghost / Spirit of JEHOVAH; "another Comforter", &c.​

They are the family JEHOVAH Elohiym. They are the marriage JEHOVAH Elohiym. They are the team JEHOVAH Elohiym. They are the trio JEHOVAH Elohiym. &c.

Please, read this book to have a correct understanding of the actual position on JEHOVAH Elohiym, and cease from an incorrect straw-man (not real position) of one - Godhead - The Eternal Heavenly Trio : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Yes, the Person / Being of the Son prays (asks of) to the Person / Being of His Father, in His (the Son's) Deity & humanity. The relationship of Son is eternal to that of the Father. If at any point the Son was not in eternal existence with the Father, then the Father could not be Father, and as such an attribute (of Father) would have been gained, making the Ancient of Days mercurial, evolutionary in His own existence (which is error).

Yes, there is / are eternal heirarchial position among Godhead of JEHOVAH Elohiym.

1. Father​

2. Son​

3. Holy Ghost /Spirit​

The Son always honours His Father. The Father honours those who honour Him, &c.

Equality, will depend on which aspect one is referring to in the context. The Son sits on the right hand of (at equal level) the Majesty (Father) on the eternal Throne of Diety, which is surrounded by the light of the Holy Ghost / Spirit, and His presence. No created being can do that.

The Bible states:

Mat_11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.​

​

Luk_10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.​

That "no man knoweth the Son, but the Father", &
that "neither knoweth any man the Father, save (except) the Son ..."

That speaks to infinite, all-knowing of the very Person / Being of each, of Father, and of the Son. How can any creature "knoweth ... the Father" in all that the Father is? Cannot ever be. Since the scripture states that God is "past finding out". It also says the same of the Person / Being of the Son. The Son is just as infinite / eternal as the Father.

Are you Aaron Earnest? Whom I believe is a Seventh Day Adventist.

 

[Adventageous]

Are you Aaron Earnest? Whom I believe is a Seventh Day Adventist.

Yes (x2).

 

[Button]

Yes (x2).

Thank you for your answer.

God bless.

 

[Soyeong]

I have often thought, especially as I burn my own firewood.... That I would have been that guy!

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. - Numbers 15

If you are doing what God considers to be worthy of the death penalty that Christ went to the cross to pay the penalty for, the you should repent.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I have often thought, especially as I burn my own firewood.... That I would have been that guy!

None to worry, the SDA people would be stoned too as they do stuff on the "sabbath" too that violates the old testament law

It's a good thing we are no longer under the old testament law and Saturday sabbath is irrelevant now since Jesus has provided a way for His people to have His rest thru the Holy Spirit.

If God does not change,how do we reconcile that God of Moses is God who was Jesus on Earth?

God's not the One that changed. The old covenant was taken away by Jesus to establish the New Covenant that God told Israel He would bring forth

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The SDA peoples really hate the Book of Hebrews as throws a monkey wrench in their favorite false doctrine

 

[Aunty Jane]

That sounds like the Trinity doctrine. I believe that is a close handed topic here so I won't comment beyond this.

Hey Button, thanks for your reply....
I am confident that the mods here will put the brakes on any thread that gets ugly. There is no reason for Christians to get personal over any topic. So civil discussion is beneficial for all truth seekers, who can weigh up all the evidence, for and against, and make up their own minds about things....without a personal slanging match.

I don't think Jesus died. Jesus commended his spirit back to God who gave it him.

If Jesus didn’t die, the ransom is not paid and we are still condemned....

If you have done any research into what “redemption” meant for a Jew, you will understand that to redeem something or someone, a set price was required. If someone fell into debt, they were obligated to pay it off or to go into service to the lender until it was paid. But if a benevolent benefactor came along and generously paid the debt for them, they were free from their debt.

Christ’s redemption of the human race also had a set price.... a sinless life was lost for all of Adam’s children, and only a sinless life offered in exchange would cancel the debt. Sin is a debt. Jesus paid it with his sinless life. If he didn’t die the same death as Adam, then redemption was not accomplished.

Jesus appeared to die to the mortals who both judged him worthy of death,and those who followed him as their teacher.

God doesn’t do that....he doesn’t ever pretend to do anything......he sent his beloved son to die in our behalf to pay for a debt that was not our fault. What love there was in that gesture from both the Father and the son, prefigured when Abraham was asked to sacrifice his beloved son, Isaac....just as he was about to take his life, God stopped him and provided a ram instead. Showing us that Abraham’s faith was so solid that he was prepared to do the unthinkable to obey the command of his God, and it also showed the willingness of the son to be sacrificed, when neither he nor his father, understood why they were asked to do that. It was Paul who explained Abraham’s reasoning. (Heb 11:17-19) His Faith was based on the assured expectation or promise, of a God who cannot lie. His actions were an evident demonstration of a reality he could not see. (Heb 11:1)

When he resurrected there days later,his disciples knew his teachings were truth.

Many of his disciples had their faith confirmed when God raised his son....even Jesus’ own siblings became believers after that...which was a testament to his humanity, as there were no miracles or any indication of his perfect sinless nature before his baptism, when he received the Holy Spirit and began to astound the people with his miracles. His neighbors who had seen him grow up were hard pressed to accept him as Messiah....he was just “the carpenter’s son”.

His teachings insured eternal life in the spirit. The second death has no hold upon him or those in him.

What is interesting is the apostle’s perception of what he meant when he spoke of returning to his Father and going to heaven to “prepare a place for them”, because Jewish belief was so ingrained in them that none of that made sense to them until Pentecost.

As Jesus was ascending to heaven, they were perplexed because Jewish expectation was entirely earthly... their Messiah was going to be a man, born of a virgin... and in God’s due time, he would become a strong leader of the Jewish people and liberate them from their oppression. They just weren’t sure how it was all going to play out......so they asked him....
“Lord are you restoring the Kingdom to Israel at this time?” ( Acts 1:6)....basically asking was he going to carry out their earthly expectations at that time? But he told them to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit so that they would then grasp the meaning of many of his teachings that had a spiritual application rather than an earthly one.
At Pentecost, all that changed and by receiving the spirit, they knew exactly why they had been chosen....what their “calling” meant, and where they were going. (Rev 20:6)

That's why the word of God is alive beyond what is contained in man's ideology.

That is true....for the “saints/ elect/chosen ones” man’s ideology is not the motivating force....it is God’s spirit that moves them to go out to the people with the “good news of the Kingdom”....something Jesus said would eventually go out into “the most distant part of the earth”.

No longer a localised Middle Easter religion, Jesus confessed to the Samaritan woman....a wider location for God’s worship....
“The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:19-24 NASB)

Revealing for the first time a wider application for God’s true worship....he indicated that neither of the sacred mountains held in reverence by Jews (Zion) and Samaritans (Gerazim) was gong to be the seat of God’s worship.....Christianity was to spread out into the whole world as Jesus said with regard to the preaching activity he commanded. (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14) The witness given was to “the entire inhabited earth”....to “all the nations” before “the end” would come.

Unfortunately Jesus also foretold that an apostasy would take place and that “weeds” of false Christianity would be sown by the devil in an attempt to undermine the “spirit and truth” given to his chosen ones. They would be offered another “truth” and sadly the ones who accepted that flawed theology would be in the majority. (Matt 7:13-14) This would lead to an awful declaration from the “Lord” that they claimed as their own....” I NEVER KNEW YOU”. (Matt 7:21-23)

A sobering reality in today’s world, where “Christianity” is “Christendom”.....a fractured, disunited rabble pretending to be what it isn’t...and never was.