ARE THEIR TWO CHURCHES OR JUST ONE?

[Button]

What i say next does not bring me any joy to say so , but is dire necessary .
My friend many denominations have abandonded him
by means of a false love that came of the world but was called the LOVE OF GOD .
IF we truly desire to Learn and to know
what jesus OR JESUS we follow
THEN i highly suggest we open and read the bible
and see what the true JESUS said and also later his own apostels wrote .
Todays love will not correct this people of sin
But JESUS did , as well as did the apostels correct the church if any was in sin .
And as this false love grew , EVEN acceptance of sins began to arise up .
And now even unbelief is being accepted . WE have serious problems button .
IF WE LOVE THEM we would have warned them and not to have allowed sin upon them .
YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart , you shall in any way CORRECT HIM and NOT ALLOW sin upon him .
Get this people back into the bible . YOU SEE how the early church did things .
SEE WHO they preached and see they also warned of the dire consequences to come upon those WHO failed
to BELEIVE ON HIM . And JESUS is not the minstir of sin . SO he wont be holding hundred dollar bills
or rainbows or any other sin . AND HE cannot LIE , so HE dont preach UNBELIEF .

I don't believe you read my post correctly.

 

[rockytopva]

The church is the whole total of the faithful in Christ.

God is not found in buildings made by man. So,how could God be consigned to any one denomination?

Taking time to like this... And... It is also a rule here!

* Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.

 

[Button]

Taking time to like this... And... It is also a rule here!

* Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.

I didn't violate any such rule.

 

[lforrest]

I didn't violate any such rule.

I believe rocky was agreeing with your post and specifically about God not being consigned to one denomination.

 

[Button]

I believe rocky was agreeing with your post and specifically about God not being consigned to one denomination.

I understood that in the first part of his reply. It was the rule posting that implied a violation of some sort on my part in the context of their reply.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Here we will examine, that if indeed, there is only one church.

The first notion to dispel is, that scripture identifies there being only one church in existence.

There was a church ( a congregation) in the wilderness before Christ came that worshiped the Lord...........[Acts 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
[Exodus 34:14 KJV] 14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

If this church is acknowledged, is it unimaginable that there could be others formed during other dispensations?

Jesus established his church...........[Matthew 16:18 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.............Lord Jesus chose twelve disciples to be apostles............[Luke 6:13 KJV] 13 And when it was day, he called [unto him] his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

[Acts 2:14 KJV] 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[Acts 2:41 KJV] 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls...........those that believed Peter were baptized, and were ADDED to them..............[Acts 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved..........The Lord ADDED to them, the existing church, the church Jesus built during his time on earth. A new church was NOT formed at Pentecost. This church continued thru, and beyond the conversion of Paul.

This existing church, built by Jesus, was the church that Paul persecuted before his conversion. This was the church of God, the church at Jerusalem, the little flock........[Acts 8:1 KJV] 1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
[1Corinthians 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
This church was never called the body of Christ.

Paul was saved and chosen by the Lord Jesus to be an apostle to the Gentiles...........[Romans 11:13 KJV] 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Peter and Paul had separate apostleship..............[Galatians 2:8 KJV] 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)..........Peter was apostle to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. Peter and Paul were not apostles over the same church. Their was no animosity between Peter and Paul. Paul could never have been selected as an apostle to the church in Jerusalem because he didn't meet the requirements. To be an apostle with Peter and the twelve, he would have to have been with the other apostles during the entire time Jesus was on earth, beginning from the baptism of John until the ascension of Christ..........[Acts 1:21-22 KJV] 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Paul received revelations from the risen Christ Jesus............[Ephesians 3:3-4 KJV] 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)...............Among these revelations, Paul received knowledge of the church Jesus formed for this dispensation of grace. Christ revealed that the church in this dispensation was the body of Christ, and it's members are members of his body. Christ revealed offices and functions to be set in place in the body of Christ.............[1Corinthians 12:27-28 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.........................Revealed was Christ as the head of the body............. [Colossians 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence..............Nowhere was the church in Jerusalem, overseen by Peter and the apostles, referred to as being the body of Christ. Nowhere was it said that Jew and Gentile were one body in the church overseen by Peter. Only in the body of Christ was Jew and Gentile revealed to be reconciled in one body............... [Ephesians 2:16 KJV] 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Paul said that the body of Christ would sit in heavenly places..........[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
[Ephesians 2:6 KJV] 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:..........Peter never spoke of himself, or his church, as sitting in heavenly places. Paul said that by the church, the body of Christ, the principalities and powers in heavenly places would know by the church, the body of Christ, the manifold wisdom of God..............[Ephesians 3:10 KJV] 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,..............this was not made known by Peter's church.

What was made known by the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom by Peter and the apostles was that their believing members, would become a holy nation and a kingdom of priests; they would reign with Christ in his earthly kingdom.................[Exodus 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
[Revelation 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years..............Only Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests. Nowhere does Paul say the members of the body of Christ are, or will be made priests; this differentiates Peter's church from the body of Christ. Only Peter's church could have the expectation of being priests in the kingdom on earth.

It has been determined that Paul was not qualified to be an apostle along with the twelve apostles in Peter's church according to Acts 1:21-22, as discussed above, yet PAUL IS AN APOSTLE............[Romans 1:1 KJV] 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,...............One of the qualifications in Acts 1 :21-22 was "must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.", Paul did see the risen Christ, and did meet this qualification to be an apostle.......................[1Co 9:1 KJV] 1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?..............Paul however, not only could he not be a replacement apostle for Judas, but he also could not be set equally beside Peter and the others as an apostle if there was just one church at the time.

For Paul to be an apostle, he would have had to be an apostle for a DIFFERENT CHURCH. Paul is an apostle to the church, the body of Christ, which means, the body of Christ IS A DIFFERENT CHURCH, ANOTHER CHURCH.

The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES. There is Peter's church and there is the body of Christ. Peter's church was still in operation during Paul's ministry to the body of Christ. The body of Christ is not the same church as Peter's church. Neither is it Peter's church fully manifested in knowledge thru the completed progressive revelation given to the apostle Paul. These two churches have different apostles. These two churches have different destinies; Peter's church is destined to reign with Christ on earth; the body of Christ is destined to dwell in heavenly places. Two churches with different purposes; Peter's church will reconcile the earth and be a blessing to the nations in the kingdom on earth; the body of Christ will reconcile the heavens and make know the wisdom of God. Scripture presents two distinct churches in Christ Jesus.

Footnote: In describing the church at Jerusalem I used the term "Peter's church" only out of convenience It was not Peter's church, It was The Lord Jesus Christ's church.

There has been and will always be just one church. aka as the body of christ aka as the espoused to jesus!

 

[Aunty Jane]

There has been and will always be just one church. aka as the body of christ aka as the espoused to jesus!

If only that one church was easy to identify in today’s disunited world.....at the moment all I can see for the groom is a gaggle of bickering spouses. Who wants to live like that?...seriously?

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't believe you read my post correctly.

oh it was not your post my friend . I am just doing all to do anything i can to remind this people
Many have fallen in love with a harlot and her love . And friend ITS A FACT .
We better all bible up . For many will wail on the great and mighty day OF GOD all mighty and The lamb .
Cause a whores love IS NOT HIS LOVE and has led this people into upmost rebellion against HIM .
Though they know this not . Bible time .
In case i have not told us as of late , OH YEAH ITS BIBLE TIME . noses in and get busy reading for yourselves .

 

[amigo de christo]

If only that one church was easy to identify in today’s disunited world.....at the moment all I can see for the groom is a gaggle of bickering spouses. Who wants to live like that?...seriously?

the true church is easy to identify .
Very simple to indentify .
ITS THE WHORES false love and fake false unity that cometh of the d evil himself and his harlot
that has taken so many captive to more and only more rebellion to GOD and HIS CHRIST .
The problem is JUDGE NOT became the churches motto
as they chanted ten thousand times a day GOD is love.
ONLY they have no idea that satan can and YES HE DOES as do his many co workers
say GOD IS LOVE . ONLY , oopsy IT AINT GOD OR HIS LOVE . THEY BEDAZZELD you all with a lie .
And unto those who love a lie , WELL that end wont be good .
BIBLE TIME . and oh wait , i nearly forget
THEY also made anyone who stuck to the bible seem as BIBOLARTY , so yeah many loved that lie too .
This generation WONT make it . Warn who you can , do all one can , but know they will hate you only the more
for your love . Because they have fallen for a harlots love and that love has led them INTO much rebellion Aggainst
GOD , HIS CHRIST and his saints . WE better WAKEY UP real QUICKLY Folks . or prepare to wail as never you have
on the DAY OF THE LORD . i dont have time to fluff and puff things . THIS IS deadly serious and its time
for the grave men to stand up and do something to help this people

 

[Aunty Jane]

the true church is easy to identify .

I think it is too, but if someone became a Christian in the first century, they were sent to one group who were followers of Christ....all believed and practised the same faith.....there was not a host of different denominations all teaching different things based on which seminary or Bible College they attended.

So where today would you sent someone who wanted to meet with fellow Christians for worship, who believed as they do, and who want to serve God and his son in true discipleship?
What does it mean to be a disciple of Jesus Christ?

Very simple to indentify .
ITS THE WHORES false love and fake false unity that cometh of the d evil himself and his harlot
that has taken so many captive to more and only more rebellion to GOD and HIS CHRIST .

Who are your brethren Amigo? With whom do you meet regularly for fellowship and worship? (Heb 10:24-25)
Who are your instructors? Who are the ones who take the lead in your congregation? (Heb 13:17)

THEY BEDAZZELD you all with a lie .
And unto those who love a lie , WELL that end wont be good .

I agree, but we still need a brotherhood...we cannot be “lone rangers” in the world where we are to be actively preaching the word before that “end” comes....Jesus dispatched his disciples to do that (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20) and said that they would be a hated and persecuted minority, just as he and his disciples were. (Matt 7:13-14; John 15:18-21)

Who are those Scriptures describing? Where will we find the true Christians?

 

[Button]

I think it is too, but if someone became a Christian in the first century, they were sent to one group who were followers of Christ....all believed and practised the same faith.....there was not a host of different denominations all teaching different things based on which seminary or Bible College they attended.

So where today would you sent someone who wanted to meet with fellow Christians for worship, who believed as they do, and who want to serve God and his son in true discipleship?
What does it mean to be a disciple of Jesus Christ?

Who are your brethren Amigo? With whom do you meet regularly for fellowship and worship? (Heb 10:24-25)
Who are your instructors? Who are the ones who take the lead in your congregation? (Heb 13:17)

I agree, but we still need a brotherhood...we cannot be “lone rangers” in the world where we are to be actively preaching the word before that “end” comes....Jesus dispatched his disciples to do that (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20) and said that they would be a hated and persecuted minority, just as he and his disciples were. (Matt 7:13-14; John 15:18-21)

Who are those Scriptures describing? Where will we find the true Christians?

I think the division started with convening the council at Nicea.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I think the division started with convening the council at Nicea.

It’s an interesting history of schisms in the Catholic church....also interesting to see how far back it goes....

Here are some examples....

330 C.E. “The schism between Greek and Latin Christendom. . . . The founding of Constantinople, the ‘new Rome’ (330), displacing the ‘old Rome’ as imperial capital, sowed the seeds of a future ecclesiastical rivalry between the Greek East and the Latin West.” (The Encyclopedia of Religion.)

330-867 C.E. “From the beginning of the See of Constantinople to the greatschism in 867 the list of these temporary breaches of communion is a formidable one. . . . Of these 544 years (323-867) no less than 203 were spent by Constantinople in a state of schism [with Rome over Trinity-related theological disputes and the worship of images].” (The Catholic Encyclopedia)

867 C.E. “The see of Constantinople maintained its position against Rome during the so-called Photian Schism. When Pope Nicholas I challenged Photius’ elevation to the patriarchate, . . . the Byzantine patriarch refused to bow. . . . Nicholas . . . excommunicated Photius; a council at Constantinople responded (867) by excommunicating Nicholas in turn. The immediate issues between the two sees were matters of ecclesiastical supremacy, the liturgy, and clerical discipline.” (The New Encyclopædia Britannica)

1054 C.E. “EAST-WEST SCHISM, event that precipitated the final separation between the Eastern [Orthodox] Christian churches . . . and the Western [Roman Catholic] Church.” (The New Encyclopædia Britannica)

1378-1417 C.E. “[GREAT] WESTERN SCHISM—The period . . . in which Western Christendom was divided between two, and later three, papal obediences [with rival popes located in Rome, Avignon (France), and Pisa (Italy)].” (New Catholic Encyclopedia)

16th century C.E. “As regards the Protestant Reformation, . . . the Catholic Church mostly uses the term heresy rather than schism.” (Théo—Nouvelle catholique)
Heresy becomes a matter of who is promoting it....

1870 C.E. “The First Vatican Council, which advocated the ‘infallibility’ of the pope, brought about the schism of the ‘Old Catholics.’” (La Croix. Paris daily, Catholic).
“Old Catholics” and supposedly “New Catholics”...who is who?

1988: Schism of Archbishop Lefebvre, who “initiated schism in the Catholic Church by his defiance of the Pope and the spirit of the second Vatican Council . . . who regards Protestants as heretical, who sees ecumenism as the work of the devil, and who is willing to die excommunicate rather than be reconciled to a ‘modernist’ Church.” (Catholic Herald)

So all this talk of Catholicism being one big happy family gets undone pretty quickly when you see the history even what is written in Catholic works...it’s a mess, usually of opposing egos....matters of control and status.
Protestant religions cannot claim to be any different, just splintering off in their own way.
There is so much disunity in Christendom that it is mind boggling!

Will the real Christians please stand up....!

 

[PS95]

It’s an interesting history of schisms in the Catholic church....also interesting to see how far back it goes....

Here are some examples....

330 C.E. “The schism between Greek and Latin Christendom. . . . The founding of Constantinople, the ‘new Rome’ (330), displacing the ‘old Rome’ as imperial capital, sowed the seeds of a future ecclesiastical rivalry between the Greek East and the Latin West.” (The Encyclopedia of Religion.)

330-867 C.E. “From the beginning of the See of Constantinople to the greatschism in 867 the list of these temporary breaches of communion is a formidable one. . . . Of these 544 years (323-867) no less than 203 were spent by Constantinople in a state of schism [with Rome over Trinity-related theological disputes and the worship of images].” (The Catholic Encyclopedia)

867 C.E. “The see of Constantinople maintained its position against Rome during the so-called Photian Schism. When Pope Nicholas I challenged Photius’ elevation to the patriarchate, . . . the Byzantine patriarch refused to bow. . . . Nicholas . . . excommunicated Photius; a council at Constantinople responded (867) by excommunicating Nicholas in turn. The immediate issues between the two sees were matters of ecclesiastical supremacy, the liturgy, and clerical discipline.” (The New Encyclopædia Britannica)

1054 C.E. “EAST-WEST SCHISM, event that precipitated the final separation between the Eastern [Orthodox] Christian churches . . . and the Western [Roman Catholic] Church.” (The New Encyclopædia Britannica)

1378-1417 C.E. “[GREAT] WESTERN SCHISM—The period . . . in which Western Christendom was divided between two, and later three, papal obediences [with rival popes located in Rome, Avignon (France), and Pisa (Italy)].” (New Catholic Encyclopedia)

16th century C.E. “As regards the Protestant Reformation, . . . the Catholic Church mostly uses the term heresy rather than schism.” (Théo—Nouvelle catholique)
Heresy becomes a matter of who is promoting it....

1870 C.E. “The First Vatican Council, which advocated the ‘infallibility’ of the pope, brought about the schism of the ‘Old Catholics.’” (La Croix. Paris daily, Catholic).
“Old Catholics” and supposedly “New Catholics”...who is who?

1988: Schism of Archbishop Lefebvre, who “initiated schism in the Catholic Church by his defiance of the Pope and the spirit of the second Vatican Council . . . who regards Protestants as heretical, who sees ecumenism as the work of the devil, and who is willing to die excommunicate rather than be reconciled to a ‘modernist’ Church.” (Catholic Herald)

So all this talk of Catholicism being one big happy family gets undone pretty quickly when you see the history even what is written in Catholic works...it’s a mess, usually of opposing egos....matters of control and status.
Protestant religions cannot claim to be any different, just splintering off in their own way.
There is so much disunity in Christendom that it is mind boggling!

Will the real Christians please stand up....!

Auntie-
Your group- The JWs-- have contributed their own schisms- I'm sure there are more than these 12.

• Bible Fellowship Union
• God's Kingdom Society
• Christian Witnesses
• The Lord's Witnesses
• Phoenix Bible Students
• Chicago Bible Students
• Baltimore Bible Students
• The True Faith Jehovah's Witnesses

 

[Marvelloustime]

the true church is easy to identify .
Very simple to indentify .
ITS THE WHORES false love and fake false unity that cometh of the d evil himself and his harlot
that has taken so many captive to more and only more rebellion to GOD and HIS CHRIST .
The problem is JUDGE NOT became the churches motto
as they chanted ten thousand times a day GOD is love.
ONLY they have no idea that satan can and YES HE DOES as do his many co workers
say GOD IS LOVE . ONLY , oopsy IT AINT GOD OR HIS LOVE . THEY BEDAZZELD you all with a lie .
And unto those who love a lie , WELL that end wont be good .
BIBLE TIME . and oh wait , i nearly forget
THEY also made anyone who stuck to the bible seem as BIBOLARTY , so yeah many loved that lie too .
This generation WONT make it . Warn who you can , do all one can , but know they will hate you only the more
for your love . Because they have fallen for a harlots love and that love has led them INTO much rebellion Aggainst
GOD , HIS CHRIST and his saints . WE better WAKEY UP real QUICKLY Folks . or prepare to wail as never you have
on the DAY OF THE LORD . i dont have time to fluff and puff things . THIS IS deadly serious and its time
for the grave men to stand up and do something to help this people

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

oh it was not your post my friend . I am just doing all to do anything i can to remind this people
Many have fallen in love with a harlot and her love . And friend ITS A FACT .
We better all bible up . For many will wail on the great and mighty day OF GOD all mighty and The lamb .
Cause a whores love IS NOT HIS LOVE and has led this people into upmost rebellion against HIM .
Though they know this not . Bible time .
In case i have not told us as of late , OH YEAH ITS BIBLE TIME . noses in and get busy reading for yourselves .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

I think it is too, but if someone became a Christian in the first century, they were sent to one group who were followers of Christ....all believed and practised the same faith.....there was not a host of different denominations all teaching different things based on which seminary or Bible College they attended.

So where today would you sent someone who wanted to meet with fellow Christians for worship, who believed as they do, and who want to serve God and his son in true discipleship?
What does it mean to be a disciple of Jesus Christ?

Who are your brethren Amigo? With whom do you meet regularly for fellowship and worship? (Heb 10:24-25)
Who are your instructors? Who are the ones who take the lead in your congregation? (Heb 13:17)

I agree, but we still need a brotherhood...we cannot be “lone rangers” in the world where we are to be actively preaching the word before that “end” comes....Jesus dispatched his disciples to do that (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20) and said that they would be a hated and persecuted minority, just as he and his disciples were. (Matt 7:13-14; John 15:18-21)

Who are those Scriptures describing? Where will we find the true Christians?

I would put them in the bible and we would have fellowship . just like others already do .
People can meet in houses as well . What i cannot do and must not do
is point them TO just any church and say WELL we gots to have fellowship . YOu dont send them into a house
whose leadership is wolves . Its easy really .
I have brethren and some of us do daily bible reads and prayers together .
Others maybe twice a week we do so . Its real simple e. But never heed those who say
OH you just have TO GET INTO a church . NO you dont . NOT if said leaders are fleecing folks .
And many said leaders DO nothing but lead this people astray .
ITS simple . KEEP the FOCUS ON CHRIST and let us learn the scrips
for ourselves and NOT by influence of mens denominations .

 

[Doug]

The church was based on the 12, but not limited to them.

What we are talking about here is if there is only one church.
The Jerusalem little flock church lead by Peter did indeed also have elders, but the point is if there is only one church how could Paul be an apostle along with the twelve? To be numbered with the twelve Paul would have had to be with Christ since John's baptism.
Paul is an apostle but he is an apostle in the body of Christ which is a separate church.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If only that one church was easy to identify in today’s disunited world.....at the moment all I can see for the groom is a gaggle of bickering spouses. Who wants to live like that?...seriously?

Well that is because you are looking at the external form I call Christendom. The true church is the saved individuals found through0out all the sects of Christianity. The church has disagreed with itself since it was born at Pentecost.

 

[amigo de christo]

Well that is because you are looking at the external form I call Christendom. The true church is the saved individuals found through0out all the sects of Christianity. The church has disagreed with itself since it was born at Pentecost.

While it is true there were disagreements
LET US ALL TAKE HEED
LET US ALL TAKE NOTICE
they would get them fixed . RATHER THAN TODAYS GENERATION
which always says JUDGE NOT , lets HUG AND JUST GET ALONG . YOU ALL DESTROYED your own churches .
ALL error is to be corrected the moment it is seen , heard or taught or done
IN THOSE CHURCHES . YOU all NEED TO HEAR THIS . and stop hugging everyone with a judge not card
TO their own destruction . CORRECT . FOR the sake of all that is good and holy
CORRECT THIS PEOPLE . THE APOSTLES SURE DID
SO DID JESUS . we got duped into satan , yeah i said satan , HIS SEEKER FRIENDLY DUNG
that literally opened the flood gates for leaven to rush in WITHOUT CORRECTION .
DO SOMETHING . if we love we would have corrected them .

 

[Wick Stick]

I think the division started with convening the council at Nicea.

It started before that, otherwise they wouldn't have started convening councils.