Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[saved by grace 101]

You are not what you claim to be.
Get behind me.

I understand, you cannot really debate this, so.....The following proves your lack of understanding concerning this subject:
'''Because you lie,steal,murder,worship false gods,idols,commit adultery,covet your neighbors goods, disrespect your parents and take the Lord's name in vain.'''

 

[Button]

I understand, you cannot really debate this, so.....The following proves your lack of understanding concerning this subject:

That is lame. Don't put your deficit upon me.

'''Because you lie,steal,murder,worship false gods,idols,commit adultery,covet your neighbors goods, disrespect your parents and take the Lord's name in vain.'''

That's exactly what you said earlier. You just don't understand it.Theres a reason for this.

You think to contradict scripture by interpreting it through the corrupt twisted ideology of your invention. Which shows those saved by grace exactly what you are.

Keep talking. And keep proving that.

I'll be ignoring you now.
And you'll keep posting so to insist your opposition to scripture isn't obvious due to the tactics you employ.

But,they are.

 

[saved by grace 101]

That is lame. Don't put your deficit upon me.

That's exactly what you said earlier. You just don't understand it.Theres a reason for this.

You think to contradict scripture by interpreting it through the corrupt twisted ideology of your invention. Which shows those saved by grace exactly what you are.

Keep talking. And keep proving that.

I'll be ignoring you now.
And you'll keep posting so to insist your opposition to scripture isn't obvious due to the tactics you employ.

But,they are.

Oh no, you just dont understand the message. Why with coveting did you stop at material goods? It includes anything of your neighbours, not just material goods, includes a member of their household. And to obey the tenth commandment requires fully obeying the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break. Covers lust/sexual desire(unless its your spouse) impure thoughts. At least you know now

 

[Button]

I think something needs to be said here about the topic of paramount importance to each and every Christian here.

I'm fairly new still. And yet,it is impossible to ignore a poison that is actively present.

It arrives as those who oppose the Gospel of Christ.

Only they imagine they're asking if any parts of it still apply,hides the fact they themselves do not believe so.

Matthew 5 tells us Jesus did not come to abolish the laws, but to fulfill them. Not one jot or tittle will disappear from the law,his law,until all is fulfilled.

And until his second coming arrives,all is not fulfilled.

The ten commandments are the moral law of God.
It is a given those reborn in Christ do not steal,lie,commit adultery,and so forth.


What you have in this community are proponents of the adversary.

Anyone who insists the ten commands of Jesus no longer matter is a liar.

That's because Jesus said they are when he reiterated them as we read in Matthew 5.

If we take the bait of unbelievers opposed to the teachings of Christ,who think themselves clever in asking us in varying thread titles what amounts to,do you Christians still believe what Jesus taught,we play their game.

No wonder the adversaries of Christ mock eternal salvation. When they know their fate they prefer to think all are as lost as they are.

Jesus died on a maybe? Maybe you'll be saved eternally. Act right and see?
No.

Eternal security really upsets the Devil.

We won't change their minds,the adversaries that deny the Gospel, by participating in their ruse. Instead,we look like we're trying to convince ourselves we need to defend God! How silly.

 

[saved by grace 101]

I think something needs to be said here about the topic of paramount importance to each and every Christian here.

I'm fairly new still. And yet,it is impossible to ignore a poison that is actively present.

It arrives as those who oppose the Gospel of Christ.

Only they imagine they're asking if any parts of it still apply,hides the fact they themselves do not believe so.



Anyone who insists the ten commands of Jesus no longer matter is a liar.

What is written in nine of those commands(the spiritual intent of the other one is now upheld seven days a week) is now in the hearts and minds of believers, some sadly still look to an external law though, and an external law will never convict of trespass anywhere near as much as an internal law will. Which is why I imagine, those who keep insisting you must obey the TC appear to have only a shallow understanding of what obedience entails, hence Ive always found the most flagrant transgressors of those laws are those who keep repeating ''you must obey the TC'' So your post is a long way off in its assumptions

 

[saved by grace 101]

Why even use the words TC these days? That was for an external law, not internal
All christians should instinctively know in their minds God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, covet, murder, Take the Lord's name in vain, bear false witness. And in their hearts they should say they do not want to do those things.
All of the above should be in their most inward parts. So why use the words Ten Commandments?
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts

That's part of the covenant!!

 

[Button]

As an aside. God tells us he wrote his laws on our hearts.

This is why the born again do not steal,murder,lie,and so forth.

We're morally aligned with God's will.
I would suggest we beware of those who tell us morality isn't a factor now for those in Christ.

Which is what those who insist God's moral law no longer applies are telling us.

They try to hide their opposition to righteousness by disguising that inent as a question to be considered.

As in, Is salvation eternal? (Not in their mind)
Is the moral laws of God still applicable? (Not to them)

Picture Jesus when he was in the Desert during his 40 day fast.
Satan challenged him,his identity,his authority,his teachings,constantly. If you are the son of God,do this,do that.

He's still at it.
Is God's Sabbath still alive in the Christian life when God made it for us?

Is Salvation really eternal security as Jesus said it is?

Do the moral laws of God still live written in the heart of the faithful?

 

[saved by grace 101]

As an aside. God tells us he wrote his laws on our hearts.

This is why the born again do not steal,murder,lie,and so forth.

Don't stop there! Impure thoughts/sexual desire(unless its your spouse)/lust, desiring anything of your neighbours whether material goods or a member of their household.
There is no watered down version of the TC in the bible, only the true version. Don't ignore morality in those commands!!

 

[saved by grace 101]

I would suggest we beware of those who tell us morality isn't a factor now for those in Christ.

Indeed, I went to a church on a Saturday for a while to please a friend. A woman turned up for church each week immaculately dressed with a bible tucked under her arm. She kept repeating ''You must obey the TC'' A while later I found out she was having multiple affairs, some overlapping. I said to her one day:
''How can you do that, your transgressing the TC''
She shrugged her shoulders and replied:
'No ones perfect and all sin is equal''
Good grief, I couldnt go to a church if I was having one affair, let alone multiple affairs

 

[Brakelite]

A bit too painful to face what obeying the TC demands for obedience I imagine, the law you say the righteous will obey

The whole purpose of the gospel was to create in God's people hearts to obey.
“2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ”
Romans 8:2-4 KJV

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What you must reconcile is that right there is the promise that people will obey., after all, if they are walking in the Spirit the righteousness of the law is met, and that would be preposterous to contemplate God accomplishing such a thing in His children if it didn't include obedience.

I understand full well what the law stands for. I know full well that alone, I can't meet the requirements of that law, because "without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. ”
Hebrews 11:6 KJV

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“And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. ”
Mark 10:27 KJV

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Just pointing out people are guilty of not practicing what they preach/insist of others, in line with Jesus words of Luke12:1

Except you sound like a Jesuit practising the role of an inquisitor.

Is it possible for you now to obey all the commands?

Absolutely. All things are possible for God. The Holy Spirit is mightier than the flesh which is already dead in Christ. You cannot bother a dead man.
“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in me will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ”
Philippians 1:6 KJV

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[Brakelite]

How many people understand, in order to obey the TC you have to obey the law relating to the inner man, the law no one but you and God need know you break. People say they have the law in their heart and mind, so why do they not understand the tenth commandment?

You are assuming they don't understand. Why?

 

[Brakelite]

you just make empty statements and demands neither you or anyone else can live up to,

Yet in the following post, you claim to have lived up them. Are you the only one then on this entire forum what had managed to overcome sin? Are you saying that the promise made by scripture that Jesus came to save us from our sins only applies to you? Why are you so intent on boasting of your own success and all the while advising others you don't know of constant failure?

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14

I wrote on this week's ago on this very thread. Righteousness by faith. But you not once recognised this, and now claim it as your own? Well that's great, I'm glad for you. But what took you so long? And why aren't you willing to recognise that others have been through the same trials and tribulations as you, and came out victorious just like you?
On what evidence do you base your allegations Mr Jesuit?

 

[Brakelite]

Gentile-Christians were worshipping on Sunday before the end of the first century.

I don't doubt that. And every other day of the week. But they were still honouring the Sabbath as well.

Paul had prophesied that apostasy would take place soon after his departure. He said there would be a falling away from the truth. One doesn’t have to read very far in early church history to see just how that prophecy was fulfilled. Gnosticism began to rise up under the influence of philosophers who sought to reconcile Christianity with Paganism. At the same time, a strong anti-Jewish sentiment became more widespread. Very speculative interpretations began to appear regarding some of the great doctrines of Christ and the apostles.
You will notice as a historian yourself how anti Sabbath laws increase of the centuries and penalties became heavier as time went forward. There were Sabbath keepers in every century. There would have been more no doubt had the establishment not interfered with persecution and coercion to honour Sunday.

2nd Century Historical Highlights

Gnostic 8th Day Origins
They affirm that man was formed on the eighth day, for sometimes they will have him to have been made on the sixth day, and sometimes on the eighth, unless, perchance, they mean that his earthly part was formed on the sixth day, but his fleshly part on the eighth, for these two things are distinguished by them.

- Irenaeus of Lyons, c. 2nd Century

Theophilus, Bishop of Antioch (120 - 190 A.D.)
And on the sixth day God finished His works which He made, and rested on the seventh day from all His works which He made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because in it He rested from all His works which God began to create.... Moreover, [they spoke] concerning the seventh day, which all men acknowledge; but the most know not that what among the Hebrews is called the "Sabbath," is translated into Greek the "Seventh" (ebdomas), a name which is adopted by every nation, although they know not the reason of the appellation.

Justinian I Enforces Sabbath Prohibition 2nd century.
If any Samaritan, after having proved himself worthy to receive baptism, should return to his former error and be detected in observing the Sabbath, or in doing anything else which proves that he was only baptized through simulated conversion, We order that he shall be proscribed, and sentenced to exile for life.

- Novellae 144, Novellae Constitvtiones Dn. Jvustiniani Sacratissimi Principis, 1717

Council of Laodicea 4th century.
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

The 4th century Apostolic Constitutions
. . . Do make the following constitutions. Let the slaves work five days; but on the Sabbath day and the Lord’s day, let them have leisure to go to church for instruction in Piety. We have said that the sabbath is on account of the creation, and the Lord’s day of the resurrection.

- Apostolicarum Constitutionum & Catholicae Doctrinae Clementis Romani libri 8. Francisco Turriano Societatis Iesu Interprete è Graeco, 1578

Sidonius (5th Century)
It is a fact that it was formerly the custom in the East to keep the Sabbath in the same manner as the Lord's day, and to hold sacred assemblies: wherefore Asterius calls Sabbath and Sunday a beautiful span, and Gregory of Nyssa calls these days brethren, and therefore censures the luxury and the Sabbatarian pleasures; while on the other hand, the people of the West, contending for the Lord's day, have neglected the celebration of the Sabbath, as being peculiar to the Jews.

So also Tertullian in his apology: 'We are only next to those who set apart the day of Saturn for rest and luxury.' It is therefore possible for the Goths to have thought, as the foster-sons of the discipline of the Greeks, that they would keep the Sabbath after the manner of the Greeks." "I would also not refrain from telling about that Sabbatarian luxury, for how is it possible to conceal that in public characters?

No man free born or slave, Goth, Roman, Syrian, Greek, or Jew shall do any kind of work on the Lord's day nor shall they yoke up cattle excepting in case of necessity but if any one should presume to do it the free born shall pay the magistrate six solidi and the slave shall receive one hundred stripes

- Council of Narbonne, Canon 4, 589AD


8th Century Historical Highlights

Attempts to Forge and Coerce
Unless ye observe Sunday saith the Lord within its proper boundaries there shall come great tempests and many fiery lightnings and thunder and sulphurous fire which shall burn tribes and nations and heavy stony hail storms and flying serpents and heathens shall come to you from Me saith God Himself even a race of Pagans who will carry you into bondage from your own lands and will offer you up to their own gods. There are moreover five huge beasts and hideous in the depths of hell seeking to come on earth to men to avenge the transgression of Sunday unless God's mercy should hold them back.

-Cain Domnaig c. 8th century, Allegedly found by Conall son of Ceolnian on the altar of St Peter and claimed to have been written by Christ Himself

 

[saved by grace 101]

You are assuming they don't understand. Why?

See my last post

 

[saved by grace 101]

Yet in the following post, you claim to have lived up them. Are you the only one then on this entire forum what had managed to overcome sin? Are you saying that the promise made by scripture that Jesus came to save us from our sins only applies to you? Why are you so intent on boasting of your own success and all the while advising others you don't know of constant failure?

I wrote on this week's ago on this very thread. Righteousness by faith. But you not once recognised this, and now claim it as your own? Well that's great, I'm glad for you. But what took you so long? And why aren't you willing to recognise that others have been through the same trials and tribulations as you, and came out victorious just like you?
On what evidence do you base your allegations Mr Jesuit?

Unfortunately, many can only read the letter of scripture, and take it strictly according to the letter, they have little discernment of the message the letter contains. Sin not being your master does not mean you fully obey applicable law. So I will accept your claiming I am boasting, as ignorance and not deliberate bearing false witness
If you are a slave to sin as Paul uses the word, you are living a wilfulll lifestyle of sin, sin dominates your life. You should know that anyway, as Paul said to born again christians in the present tense the letter of the TC kills, it is the ministry of death and condemnation, he wasn't expecting a person wouldn't commit any sin was he!
And BTW, I have nothing whatsoever to boast of in my life, all the glory really does go to God
I only now claim righteousness by faith? Im afraid your posts are veering further and further away from the truth, probably for you do not have much room to maneuverer. Since I was 19 I knew my righteousness was faith in Christ, so Im afraid you cannot take the credit
You need discernment, you say a persons righteousness is faith in Christ, but the righteous will obey the TC. And if you did have discernment, you would know, such a statement would lead anyone to live under righteousness of obeying the law
And as to your previous post, why do I assume people do not understand what obeying the TC entails. Anyone who judges the righteous as obeying law the bible terms the letter that kills the ministry of death and condemnation, is either in ignorance of what is entailed in obedience to that law, or, they are wilfully and deliberately insisting of others what they do not insist of themselves to prove they are righteous before God
Interesting people like you never mention Jesus commands in the gospels, no chance of being in ignorance concerning what they state is there!

 

[saved by grace 101]

The whole purpose of the gospel was to create in God's people hearts to obey.
“2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ”
Romans 8:2-4 KJV

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What you must reconcile is that right there is the promise that people will obey., after all, if they are walking in the Spirit the righteousness of the law is met, and that would be preposterous to contemplate God accomplishing such a thing in His children if it didn't include obedience.

I understand full well what the law stands for. I know full well that alone, I can't meet the requirements of that law, because "without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. ”
Hebrews 11:6 KJV

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“And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. ”
Mark 10:27 KJV

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Except you sound like a Jesuit practising the role of an inquisitor.

Absolutely. All things are possible for God. The Holy Spirit is mightier than the flesh which is already dead in Christ. You cannot bother a dead man.
“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in me will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ”
Philippians 1:6 KJV

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Is it possible for you NOW to obey all the commands?

'''''Absolutely. All things are possible for God. The Holy Spirit is mightier than the flesh which is already dead in Christ. You cannot bother a dead man.'''''

So you never dwell on any impure thought, you never have sexual desire unless it is for your spouse, you never lust, you never desire anything of your neighbours whether material goods or a member of their household. You fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break.
You say: ''The righteous will obey the TC!''
I wonder how many people in your church pass your test to prove they are righteous before God, and how many just make pat statements

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't doubt that. And every other day of the week. But they were still honouring the Sabbath as well.

No real reason to debate this, it is a matter of history. The Gentile-Christians were not allowed in the Temple. After the destruction of the Temple the Jewish-Christians had pretty much died out by the end of the first century. No Jewish-Christians writings after the first century.

There is probably more Christians today than back then, that have a fetish for mixing Judaism and Christianity. and worship on the Jewish Saturday Sabbath.

The Roman siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple put the Jews and Jewish-Christians in disarray. Physically and emotionally. How could God allow for the destruction of the Temple????was on the minds of Jews and Jewish-Christians. And the Roman siege had caused a hatred between the Jews, Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians. They fought within the walls of Jerusalem during the siege....starvation and cannibalism. A few rows of Crucifixes circled the five mile walls of Jerusalem and it was not just women, men, and children being nailed to the crucifixes naked.....it was much worse than that......I will save you the description .....you can look it up for yourselves.

Crucify Him!!! Crucify Him!!! Let His blood be on us and our children!!! The Jews were thought to be the killers of Christ and the Jewish-Christians took some of the fallout of that. Plus the Roman persecution of Jews and Jewish-Christians ramped up. Jews could no longer gather at synagogues so Jews and Christians worship in hiding. Of course Gentile-Christians were persecuted too, but with the persecution of the Gentile-Christians the Romans could find themselves persecuting Roman citizens and relatives. The Jewish-Christians were pretty much exterminated, and the Jews were on the run but as history moved on they were kicked out of Christian countries.

Of all the Early Christian writers Justin Martr was the only one that noted Sunday worship and that in itself is telling because there was no indication of struggles on the day of worship. When the Gospel of John came out it was very popular and John emphasized on the Godship of Yeshua. In the New Testament (mostly in John's writings) Yeshua is elevated to position of Creator God with all authority and God the Father was effectively demoted.

Of course this course this some division for some who thought that Yahweh was senior to Yeshua. This was one of the debates during the Ecumenical Councils that could not be agreed upon. But Emperor Constantine insisted on an agreement so the false doctrine of 3 in 1 Trinity was forced upon Christianity up pain of excommunication or death if they resisted.

With the 3 in 1 Trinity God the Father was on officially demoted because they were all one and so they all did everything. Tripped and fell into a blender?

With the Apostle Paul stipulating that it did not matter what day you choose to worship the Lord it was not a big deal.
"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. Romans" 14:5-6

 

[GodsGrace]

First off Jesus cannot be mentioned because no one knows where this name came from and there are no J's in the scriptures and Yeshua is not mentioned by name or action in the Old Testament....nothing directly.

Is your name Grailhuner?
What if I called you The Grail....
would you still be Grailhunter?

You would stil lbe you no matter what name anyone gave to you.

Jesus is found throughout the Old Testament.

Genesis 18:1-2 LSB
18 1Then Yahweh appeared to him by the [a]oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.
2 And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing nearby; he saw, and he ran from the tent door to meet them, and he bowed himself to the earth,

The above states that Yahweh appeared to Abraham.
Has anyone ever seen the face of God?
No.

Exodus 33:20 God said to Moses
20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”


John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time;


1 Timothy 6:16
16 who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.


So who did Abraham see?
Who did Moses see?

 

[GodsGrace]

If we believe God wrote his laws,commandments,on our hearts so that we would never be far from them,what laws,commands,are these?

Right.
I've asked this many times.
If Jesus says we are to obey Him and His commandments...
it means that there are commandments that are to be obeyed...
and behavior which is to be followed.

Great point !

Jesus said to love the Lord God with all our heart and mind,and our neighbor as ourselves. Upon those two commands hang all the laws,which would include the moral ten commandments,and the prophets.

Therefore,and especially given the text,directives,of the ten commandments, which are moral instructions,I don't believe we can say the ten commandments no longer are in effect.

In fact, I don't know how a claim that moral instruction no longer applies in the Christian persons life could ever be argued as correct and righteous truth.

It's just the opposite.

 

[GodsGrace]

No real reason to debate this, it is a matter of history. The Gentile-Christians were not allowed in the Temple. After the destruction of the Temple the Jewish-Christians had pretty much died out by the end of the first century. No Jewish-Christians writings after the first century.

There is probably more Christians today than back then, that have a fetish for mixing Judaism and Christianity. and worship on the Jewish Saturday Sabbath.

The Roman siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple put the Jews and Jewish-Christians in disarray. Physically and emotionally. How could God allow for the destruction of the Temple????was on the minds of Jews and Jewish-Christians. And the Roman siege had caused a hatred between the Jews, Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians. They fought within the walls of Jerusalem during the siege....starvation and cannibalism. A few rows of Crucifixes circled the five mile walls of Jerusalem and it was not just women, men, and children being nailed to the crucifixes naked.....it was much worse than that......I will save you the description .....you can look it up for yourselves.

Crucify Him!!! Crucify Him!!! Let His blood be on us and our children!!! The Jews were thought to be the killers of Christ and the Jewish-Christians took some of the fallout of that. Plus the Roman persecution of Jews and Jewish-Christians ramped up. Jews could no longer gather at synagogues so Jews and Christians worship in hiding. Of course Gentile-Christians were persecuted too, but with the persecution of the Gentile-Christians the Romans could find themselves persecuting Roman citizens and relatives. The Jewish-Christians were pretty much exterminated, and the Jews were on the run but as history moved on they were kicked out of Christian countries.

Of all the Early Christian writers Justin Martr was the only one that noted Sunday worship and that in itself is telling because there was no indication of struggles on the day of worship. When the Gospel of John came out it was very popular and John emphasized on the Godship of Yeshua. In the New Testament (mostly in John's writings) Yeshua is elevated to position of Creator God with all authority and God the Father was effectively demoted.

Of course this course this some division for some who thought that Yahweh was senior to Yeshua. This was one of the debates during the Ecumenical Councils that could not be agreed upon. But Emperor Constantine insisted on an agreement so the false doctrine of 3 in 1 Trinity was forced upon Christianity up pain of excommunication or death if they resisted.

With the 3 in 1 Trinity God the Father was on officially demoted because they were all one and so they all did everything. Tripped and fell into a blender?

With the Apostle Paul stipulating that it did not matter what day you choose to worship the Lord it was not a big deal.
"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. Romans" 14:5-6

GH
God Father was never demoted.
The Son and the Holy Spirit both are begotten of the Father....
they "come forth" from the Father.
There is, in a manner of speaking, a heirarchy in the Godhead...
Father is at the top.

There is no demotion.
I'm sure you know about the problem of the Filoque.
The problem created by the CC is that it makes it seem that Father and Son were sharing something that Holy Spirt did not participate in. I do believe the Orthodox Church got this doctrine right.