The Wrath of God - How is it love?

[Aunty Jane]

How is it that God's wrath is justice? Isn't revenge a sin?

Remember the difference between “vengeance” and “revenge” StS? They are not the same.

Justice demands vengeance as a recompense for evil acts committed by unrepentant ones.
It is pictured by Abel’s blood crying out to God for justice to be done and his death avenged.
God is a forgiver of even awful sins, as long as the person is repentant, and mends their ways and stays clean.
Revenge is simply getting even. This is not what God does.

The penalty fits the crime....and that penalty is clearly stated before the crime is committed.....so there are no excuses.....and there is no heaven or hell....just life or death. God has authority over both.

 

[Behold]

God is a forgiver of even awful sins, as long as the person is repentant, and mends their ways and stays clean.

If you compare your best "clean behavior" with God's Holiness, you have taken your first step towards understanding why all your good deeds and "clean behavior" is/are a "filthy rag" compared to God's Holiness.

So, understanding that, (if you are able)........ causes a person to stop playing the "im trying to behave to try to get God to save me and keep me".. carnal mindgame within themselves.

Now, God never has and never will accept anyone based on their behavior.
He only accepts a BELIEVER based on their FAITH, and their "FAITH is counted by God as (Christ's) righteousness" and there is no other righteousness that exist, and the only reason a Christian is deemed by God as "righteous" is because God has impuited His own righteousness to them.

A.) "The Gift of Righteousness".

 

[St. SteVen]

It is pictured by Abel’s blood crying out to God for justice to be done and his death avenged.

I seem to remember that God showed mercy on Cain.
Even gave him a mark for protection.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I seem to remember that God showed mercy on Cain.

Did he? Was it mercy to be excommunicated away from his whole family? Why did he complain that the penalty was too severe?

Or was it that humans were a bit short on the ground and God told the humans to populate the earth? Cain did not get what he deserved but was allowed to live at God’s discretion. He was not repentant, so he deserved death.

Even gave him a mark for protection.

Why do you think he would need that? Everyone who encountered him would want justice for Abel.
Try and envision the circumstance under which these things took place...

 

[Aunty Jane]

Now, God never has and never will accept anyone based on their behavior.

No doubt your interpretation of Scripture will lead you somewhere...but I don’t think you have any idea about where that will be...or what God requires of his free willed servants.

Our behaviour is everything.....and those who don’t believe that, forget that human behaviour was at the bottom of the very thing that alienated the human race from God in the first place. Disobedience....which is uncontrolled behaviour it involved both human and angelic behaviour.....it’s opposite is controlled behaviour ....something that the Bible teaches us how to do even in imperfect flesh. Why did God have laws? Hellooo....

He only accepts a BELIEVER based on their FAITH, and their "FAITH is counted by God as (Christ's) righteousness" and there is no other righteousness that exist, and the only reason a Christian is deemed by God as "righteous" is because God has impuited His own righteousness to them.

All the best with that....if we are not “DOING THE WILL OF GOD”...(1 John 2:17) which involves our behaviour, then we are not saved....so I believe that your theology is flawed, empty, and unsupported by God’s word.
You can believe whatever you wish. Only God can tell you that us that we are dead wrong...but by then it’s going to be a bit late.
We will all know soon enough...won’t we? No second chances. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[Wick Stick]

Remember the difference between “vengeance” and “revenge” StS? They are not the same.

Justice demands vengeance as a recompense for evil acts committed by unrepentant ones.
It is pictured by Abel’s blood crying out to God for justice to be done and his death avenged.
God is a forgiver of even awful sins, as long as the person is repentant, and mends their ways and stays clean.
Revenge is simply getting even. This is not what God does.

The penalty fits the crime....and that penalty is clearly stated before the crime is committed.....so there are no excuses.....and there is no heaven or hell....just life or death. God has authority over both.

Uh... they're the same root word. See that VENG in both words?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Uh... they're the same root word. See that VENG in both words?

“Vengeance is an act of retribution. The difference between avenge and revenge is profoundly different based on morality. Avenging an injustice is righteous, while taking revenge for being harmed is not.
It’s like the difference between a policeman rightfully shooting an armed robber and an armed robber shooting a policeman. The former is self-defense. The latter is murder...” (Quora)

“The verb "to avenge" means to seek retribution on behalf of somebody else.
It contrasts with "revenge," which is about seeking retribution for yourself.” (Grammar Monster)

The difference is important....as illustrated in 2 Thess 1:6-8....by the apostle Paul...
“This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.”

A repayment is justified from God who said “vengeance is mine, I will repay”. (Rom 12:19)
Revenge is not authorised by God if a person takes the law into their own hands.

 

[St. SteVen]

Did he? Was it mercy to be excommunicated away from his whole family? Why did he complain that the penalty was too severe?

He went on to build a whole city. Populated, I assume.

 

[Aunty Jane]

He went on to build a whole city. Populated, I assume.

That was part of the assignment originally given to the human race.....to ”fill the earth and subdue it.”
This is why God did not give Cain the death sentence he deserved...he had committed premeditated, cold blooded murder.

The humans got to fulfill the first part of their assignment....but not the second...as we saw in the repeat of God’s instructions when Noah and his family came out of the ark....

Gen 9:1...
“God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth.”
There it is again...the first part of the assignment that was given to Adam and his wife, now given to Noah after a complete reset. The Creator virtually started again, this time with 8 people.

The rest were instructions on stepping out into a world where everything was new.
Diet...and the eating of the flesh of animals were all new, as was the reaction of animals to them now. And rules about bloodshed and how they were commanded to fill an empty earth.

God went on to tell them....
“2  A fear of you and a terror of you will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that moves on the ground and upon all the fish of the sea. They are now given into your hand. 3  Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you. 4  Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat. 5  Besides that, I will demand an accounting for your lifeblood. I will demand an accounting from every living creature; and from each man I will demand an accounting for the life of his brother. 6  Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image He made man.”

And with that instruction, he again concluded by saying....
“7  As for you, be fruitful and become many, and increase abundantly on the earth and multiply.”

So God knew that working through redemption was to take priority over his original plans for mankind on planet Earth. The reset did not remove adamic sin....but simply gave the human race a new start.

We have to understand what “subduing the earth” meant in God’s plans for the future....something that would spread the paradise conditions that God planned in the garden of Eden...only it will be completed on a global scale under the rule of God’s kingdom. All that we lost in Eden will be restored for those who obey God like Adam and his wife should have.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Hey , THE creator alone has the right to do .
GO to and b ehold WHY satan fell .
IT is not SIN , EVIL , OR WRONG for GOD TO DESIRE ALL GLORY and to be exalted ABOVE ALL THAT IS .
But it dont mean IT AINT SIN for the created to desire such a thing . IT IS sin for us , NOT GOD .
SO keep that in mind
VENGEANCE IS NOT ours , WE are but wicked sinners sa ved and changed by g race .
VENGEANCE IS FOR GOD ALONE . BUT KEEP IN MIND
HE ALSO IS THE ON E WHO was whipped and beaten bloody for humanity .
IT WAS HE who did what no man could , FOR US .
STOP JUDGING GOD with your false worldy version of what YOU THINK is love .
NO MORE will i hear one word about this in clusive universalism from thine lips .
UTTER NO SUCH FALSE HOPE . EITHER preach the ONLY HOPE one has , WHICH IS FAITH IN JESUS
or prepare to hear I NEVER KNEW YOU s teven , ON the day OF THE LORD GOD all mighty and of the LAMB .
I been watching you for a long time steven . YOUR LOVE preaches REBELLION TO GOD . and you need to cease such a thing .

@amigo de christo

 

[St. SteVen]

That was part of the assignment originally given to the human race.....to ”fill the earth and subdue it.”
This is why God did not give Cain the death sentence he deserved...he had committed premeditated, cold blooded murder.

My point is that what we would consider the wrath of God was tempered considerably.

 

[Wick Stick]

A repayment is justified from God who said “vengeance is mine, I will repay”. (Rom 12:19)

Revenge is not authorised by God if a person takes the law into their own hands.

Numbers 35 suggests that God takes vengeance by appointing men to act on His behalf, in the here and now. I do not see that vengeance is deferred til the end of the world.

 

[Aunty Jane]

My point is that what we would consider the wrath of God was tempered considerably.

That is his prerogative, as he sees factors that are not obvious to us.

David’s sin with Bathsheba for example, involved adultery and murder, as he orchestrated the death of her husband to cover up her pregnancy. Both of those crimes against God demanded the death penalty. Yet Jehovah himself took on his case, and used the prophet Nathan to lead David into condemning himself out of his own mouth.
When he realised the full gravity of what he had done, his heart was shattered and his repentance was sincere. God forgave him on the basis of that repentance, and he married Bathsheba who bore him another son, Solomon, whom God endowed with wisdom beyond all others, and used him to write many proverbs and the book of Ecclesiastes, where his Godly wisdom shines to this day.

Yet David paid for his sins in many other ways...his life was plagued with troubles as his writings reveal. His God did not prevent them.
No one gets away with anything.....all will answer for their own sins one way or another. We will all “reap what we have sown”. God’s justice will be done.

The gravity of our sin is not what convicts us...it is the level of our repentance that counts with God.
Think about Manasseh. (2 Chron 33:1-10)

Conversely we can compare what happened to Korah, Dathan and Abiram....no mercy was involved in their punishment. (Numbers 26:9-10) Their rebellion was called a “struggle against Jehovah”. They questioned the authority that God had given to Moses and Aaron, which called into question God’s choice of the leaders of his people.
Compare these two accounts. God examines the heart, not just the speech or the actions.

We first have to acknowledge the sin, repent of the wrongdoing, and then live a life that demonstrates that repentance.
Manasseh was probably the best example of God’s forgiveness, as this King was said to be more wicked than any other, yet when Jehovah humbled him and brought him to his knees. In his humiliation, he repented, and God restored him to his kingship and thereafter, he lived his life making it up to his God for all the wickedness he had practiced. (2 Chron 33:11-16)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Numbers 35 suggests that God takes vengeance by appointing men to act on His behalf, in the here and now. I do not see that vengeance is deferred til the end of the world.

Yes, we are told to obey our ruling authorities, to whom God has given permission to punish crimes and keep order, without which anarchy would reign. Those governmental authorities do not all operate under the same laws or punish with the same penalties. Some crimes that require the death penalty in one nation are given prison sentences in others.

But we are to be “no part of the world” (John 18:36) so we are not to be part of that ruling authority. We are to remain separate from the politics of this world. Like Jesus, under Roman domination in his day, we obey the laws of our nation, and pay our taxes, and live a life in imitation of Christ, so that the legal system does not have to deal with us for breaking their laws. However, Christians cannot obey any law of man if it conflicts with God’s law. Only then will you find true Christians in jail....for upholding God’s laws. People would hate us for upholding God’s truth. (John 15:18-21) This is called persecution, as Jesus said would be part of our discipleship. (Matt 5:10-12)

Because we want to be citizens of God’s Kingdom, we cannot have dual citizenship. What the world does is not our business. Whatever problems there are, will be fixed when God brings in the rulership of his kingdom. God will destroy all those governmental authorities when he reinstates his rulership over mankind. (Daniel 2:44) Those who want to be “friends with the world” will find themselves on the wrong side. (James 4:4)

 

[Jack]

The Wrath of God - How is it love?​

It is love indeed! He gave us the CHOICE to repent and serve Him or burn in Hell Fire FOREVER! It's perfectly clear warnings from God that BILLIONS of humans will burn in Hell FOREVER.

 

[Jack]

Those who want to be “friends with the world” will find themselves on the wrong side. (James 4:4)

What does that mean Aunty?