WWJD with LGBTQ?

[shepherdsword]

I'm not promoting fornication or rape.
Just hoping to educate ignorant Christians about the realities of human sexuality.

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

I'm still trying to help Christians understand this COMPLEX issue that they have reduced to a knee-jerk reaction. Notice the term "LGBTQ humans" in the topic title. I need to remind Christians that these people are human. - Sigh. :( Because they are typically treated by Christians as subhuman...

www.christianityboard.com

Birth Sex: The sex/gender you were born with.
Determined by the presence of male or female genitalia.
A small percentage are born with dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities.
See "Gender Assigned at Birth" below.

Gender Assigned at Birth: Now part of the paperwork doctors are required to fill out.
Allowing for parents to assign Non-Binary gender on the birth certificate.
Previously this was reserved for doctors and parents (hopefully) in cases of
dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities. (this subject is new to me)

Gender Identity: In most cases gender is determined by birth sex.
But as we have all seen, hormonal imbalances can give us a broad range of maleness and femaleness.
There are very masculine females and very feminine males. and everything in between.
See Gender Roles and Gender Dysphoria below.

Gender Roles: We see early signs of children gravitating toward gender specific interests.
Typically girls play with dolls and boys prefer trucks. But not always. Happens as early as 3 to 5 years.
We have seen a lot of evening out in this area. Opportunities for women in typically male roles.
Things have gone in the other direction as well. With more and more stay-at-home Dads.

Gender Dysphoria: The situation where a birth sex male feels that they are a female in a male body.
Or a birth sex female feels that they are a male in a female body. Usually realized in adolescence.
However, some children as young as 3 to 5 years old are acting on strong urges to opposite gender behavior.
Unfortunate, this has been OVER-STRESSED in recent years to epidemic proportions.
Gender identity is being pushed on anyone with a hormonal balance in either direction.
And has become popular in teen culture to pursue gender identity opposite their birth sex.

Transgender: A range of reactions to gender dysphoria. Manifesting in anything from
clothing and hair style preferences and name change to gender reassignment surgery.

Sexual Orientation: Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.
Note: Transgenderism does NOT automatically effect a change in sexual orientation.

Monogamous Relationships:
A couple in a lifetime commitment to each other regardless of sexual orientation.

I like the classic biblical definitions that supersedes all of this LGTB+ woke nonsense. We don't need an Orwellian rewrite of the classic roles by the powers of darkness.

 

[Taken]

WWJD with LGBTQ?

Educate and Warn.

Rom 1: 18-32 is a good start.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

I like the classic biblical definitions that supersedes all of this LGTB+ woke nonsense. We don't need an Orwellian rewrite of the classic roles by the powers of darkness.

Here's the problem.
Let's say there's a wonderful Christian family in your church.
At some point in adolescence one of their children realizes they are different.
Since an early age they have been attracted to same sex relationships.
Social pressures are pushing them toward opposite sex relationships.
This causes a crisis in the child and in the family.
The church is unsupportive, so they leave the church.
What good were the classic definitions?

 

[Pierac]

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage

Let's Start from the beginning... Sin is Sin.... So if you like to pack fudge... Like your confessing to do so... It is no different than if... I like to look at your little sister! YET... We Both would be sinning out side of marrage! STILL.... I feel Jesus would think different about you packing fudge than me looking at your 28 year old sister and wanting what I was created for! Not the same dude!!! Not by a long shot!!!

 

[shepherdsword]

Here's the problem.
Let's say there's a wonderful Christian family in your church.
At some point in adolescence one of their children realizes they are different.
Since an early age they have been attracted to same sex relationships.
Social pressures are pushing them toward opposite sex relationships.
This causes a crisis in the child and in the family.
The church is unsupportive, so they leave the church.
What good were the classic definitions?

What do you mean by "support"? Same sex relationships should not be "supported". We are not here to make people feel comfortable in their sin.

 

[St. SteVen]

Let's Start from the beginning... Sin is Sin.... So if you like to pack fudge... Like your confessing to do so... It is no different than if... I like to look at your little sister! YET... We Both would be sinning out side of marrage! STILL.... I feel Jesus would think different about you packing fudge than me looking at your 28 year old sister and wanting what I was created for! Not the same dude!!! Not by a long shot!!!

Are you accusing me of being gay? I'm not.
I'm addressing the church's poor response to the subject.

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you mean by "support"? Same sex relationships should not be "supported". We are not here to make people feel comfortable in their sin.

I said "unsupportive". Meaning the church would not be understanding. only condemnatory.
Like you are being.

How would you counsel that family?

 

[Grailhunter]

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. John 15:6

 

[Pierac]

Are you accusing me of being gay? I'm not.
I'm addressing the church's poor response to the subject.

Sorry, did mot mean it to be personal as in you

 

[Marvelloustime]

if one cannot even BELIEVE the gospel
there is N O LIGHT IN THEM .
And one cannot love BELEIF IN HIM and UNBELEIF , they will cling to UNBELEIF .
as we clearly see in ecumenicism . EITHER we BELEIVE HIS WORDS
or we have only decieved ourselves .
Because IF JESUS said it , LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR .
and we both know JESUS WAS NOT MERE MAN . HIS WORDS are SPIRIT
and THEY ARE LIFE .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

Here's the problem.
Let's say there's a wonderful Christian family in your church.
At some point in adolescence one of their children realizes they are different.
Since an early age they have been attracted to same sex relationships.
Social pressures are pushing them toward opposite sex relationships.
This causes a crisis in the child and in the family.
The church is unsupportive, so they leave the church.
What good were the classic definitions?

At some point in adolescence one of their children realizes they are different
AND WHO YA THINK is lying to that child . SATAN is and is making them believe they are different
Steven you pave the way FOR LEAVEN to increase .
Correction time .
So by your defintion
If ones own child began beleiving they are a thief and since early in childhood
have had desires to be a thief that for us to warn and correct such a child
is what again .
Guess if a child beleives he is a murderer
we ought to see the gray in that TOO .
You my friend are being decieved . In order for leaven to increase and take over an dleaven the lump
ALL one has to do IS NOT correct , say nothing and IT SURE WILL do just that .
NO . ALL sin , ALL error must be corrected . Folks are terrified of this sin .
AS IF the child KNOWS what is best for them . AS IF A CHILD knows that is best for them .
NO sir , The church must always identify sin and expose it and do so for the good of their peoples .
Or prepare to watch leaven take over .

 

[St. SteVen]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 78667

How many times have I asked you politely not to troll my topics with your unrelated content?
Yet you persist.

 

[shepherdsword]

I said "unsupportive". Meaning the church would not be understanding. only condemnatory.
Like you are being.

How would you counsel that family?

I am not the one that condemns this sin. The Bible does that. You see, your problem is that you don't think there is any lasting consequences for sin. Therefore, you seek to appease them and make people feel comfortable in sin. That's not what the scripture teaches. What would you say to the scripture "them than sin rebuke before all" How does that fit into your user friendly safe zone church? I would counsel the family to seek deliverance from this sin and encourage them to repent.

 

[St. SteVen]

I am not the one that condemns this sin. The Bible does that. You see, your problem is that you don't think there is any lasting consequences for sin. Therefore, you seek to appease them and make people feel comfortable in sin. That's not what the scripture teaches. What would you say to the scripture "them than sin rebuke before all" How does that fit into your user friendly safe zone church? I would counsel the family to seek deliverance from this sin and encourage them to repent.

What you fail to understand is that there was no sin in the example I provided.
(except perhaps in the way the church treated them)

St. SteVen said:
Here's the problem.
Let's say there's a wonderful Christian family in your church.
At some point in adolescence one of their children realizes they are different.
Since an early age they have been attracted to same sex relationships.
Social pressures are pushing them toward opposite sex relationships.
This causes a crisis in the child and in the family.
The church is unsupportive, so they leave the church.
What good were the classic definitions? #963

 

[shepherdsword]

What you fail to understand is that there was no sin in the example I provided.
(except perhaps in the way the church treated them)

St. SteVen said:
Here's the problem.
Let's say there's a wonderful Christian family in your church.
At some point in adolescence one of their children realizes they are different.
Since an early age they have been attracted to same sex relationships.
Social pressures are pushing them toward opposite sex relationships.
This causes a crisis in the child and in the family.
The church is unsupportive, so they leave the church.
What good were the classic definitions? #963

The key point is "Social pressures are pushing them toward opposite sex relationships"
The "pressure" isn't coming from this woke society. It's coming from the scriptures that condemn same sex attraction.

"This causes a crisis in the child and in the family"

The crisis is caused by the child's inordinate affection. I would encourage the family to seek deliverance and repentance for the child.

"What good were the classic definitions?"
The classic definitions are the scriptural molds we must all conform to if we want Godly relationships.

How exactly would you expect the church to offer support?

 

[amigo de christo]

How many times have I asked you politely not to troll my topics with your unrelated content?
Yet you persist.

Only a soldier of deconstruction would have such rage against scriptures .
For the scriptures always expose the carnal thoughts of men .
Very sad st steven . Very very sad for you .

 

[TLHKAJ]

He wouldn't tolerate their sin I can tell you that.

I don't think that was the question. Jesus doesn't tolerate your sin either ....nor mine, or anyone else's sin. So what's the point? How did He deal with your sin? How did He deal with the sin of the woman at the well... or the woman caught in adultery? How did He deal with Peter after Peter denied Him 3 times? That's exactly the same way He deals with someone who comes to Him out of the LGBTQ community.

Whatever we give to Him, He is able to cleanse us from. We all have had sin and we all have needed cleansing and sanctification.

 

[shepherdsword]

Whatever we give to Him, He is able to cleanse us from.

and that's the key...we must give it to him.

 

[St. SteVen]

How exactly would you expect the church to offer support?

To help the family work through the very REAL issues instead of condemning them as you do.
The child's same-sex preference may never go away. It's not a sin unless acted upon sexually.
They were born that way. (testosterone/estrogen imbalance) Medical assistance would help.

Sending them to "deliverance ministry" infers that the child is possessed by a demon.
That is potentially more damaging than their decision to leave the church.

 

[shepherdsword]

To help the family work through the very REAL issues instead of condemning them as you do.

I am not condemning anyone. I merely presented the scriptural position on same sex attraction. Please describe how you would instruct the family to work through these issues

The child's same-sex preference may never go away. It's not a sin unless acted upon sexually.

I agree and that would be part of my counsel. To not act upon such desires.

They were born that way. (testosterone/estrogen imbalance) Medical assistance would help.

Hogwash. Stop presenting the woke lie that they were "born this way" as if that absolves moral culpability. I am single and my desire for the opposite sex doesn't absolve me of my guilt if I act upon it.

Sending them to "deliverance ministry" infers that the child is possessed by a demon.
That is potentially more damaging than their decision to leave the church.

How much experience have you had in deliverance? I have seen homosexuals spirits manifest with my own eyes. I have seen people delivered who went on to have normal marriages.