I SEE TWO CHURCHES IN ACTS 15

[Doug]

One Cross for One Gospel

Please what is the one gospel?

 

[Doug]

For everyone reading, let me cut through the fog and call this what it is. What @Doug is pushing is not new light. It is an old system commonly known as hyper-dispensationalism or Acts 28 theology

Acts 28 is wrong I am mid acts

 

[amigo de christo]

The 'Death' of the serpent on the Cross represents CHRIST defeating Satan on the Cross thru HIS Own Sacrafice.

One Cross for One Gospel for One Salvation = "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile"

Romans 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,
for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

sadly many live by the faith of another and that which be of men .
Their faith leads them into another faith upon which they do enter .
interfaith leads only to the second death .
Let folks rather enter into FAITH IN CHRIST . And if a man has not Faith , trust , beleif IN HIS WORDS
well then their faith is obvsiously in an other . and that other is NOT the one that any should have trusted
nor entered into its false love covenant whic h ensured only THE SECON D death sentence .
ANY love
OH any love that contradicts TRUTH , IS NOT coming OF GOD , OF CHRIST , OF THE SPIRIT
WHO IS TRUTH . Gods love aint in the busin ess of DENYING HIM
WHICH clearly this other sin accepting , UNBELIEF accepting lovey do SURELY DO .
Remember when i said that satan can a ppear
to have only THE BEST intent for man , but indeed desires only their death and for them to remain Under death .
OH but THAT IS WHAT HE DO . and many now th ro ugh his version of love
HAVE grown only more rebellious BY his love unto the ONL Y GOD who could have saved them .
OH my f riend , has it not been said that satan is the father of lies . OH BUT HE is and sadly man y now do his work
and even believe as do a child , THEY FOLLOW GOD and HIS love , HIS plan which will rain down upon them all
PEACE N SAFETY . only ,that is NOT what will be rained down UPON THE GOD and HIS CHRIST
ON HIS DAY . IT WILL BE the very SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon them all .
And folks follow this o ther god as though his love , his big ol diverse inclusive love road WILL SAVE THEM
and lead them TO THE PROMISED LAND OF PEACE N SAFETY . oh its gonna lead them all right
BUT TO THE DAY OF THEIR OWN destruction and great wailing will be heard .
FOR THOUGH GOD did all that would ensure their salvation , THEY REJECTED IT by the love of a harlot and her father the devil .
Sounds grave , BUT BELEIVE ME how much more grave were even the apostels . WE been duped my friend .
But when i say we i speak of THIS generations ideal of what satan sold to all the kingdoms as THE LOVE OF GOD .
i never in all my days on earth seen such a delusion and seen its fast increase . OH yes
GREAT tribulation , NO DOUBT is coming and will come upon the true saints ,,, and all who support this god and its big ol inclusive ecumenial love
WILL in deed beleive they do GOD SERVICE , WHEN they round up and put to death , THE V ERY SAINTS OF GOD .

 

[bdavidc]

Please what is the one gospel?

The gospel has already been stated, plainly, from Scripture. Christ died for sins, was buried, and rose again. Salvation is by grace through faith in Him. One cross. One gospel ~1 Corinthians 15:3–4; ~Ephesians 2:8–9. That answer has not been avoided.

So why does the question keep coming back: “What is the one gospel?”

Because a simple gospel leaves no room for the system you are pushing. When the gospel is kept where Scripture keeps it, there is no place for delayed revelation, parallel churches, or hidden programs. A plain gospel destroys complicated frameworks.

Scripture describes this exact pattern. “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” ~2 Timothy 3:7. Not because truth is unclear, but because it is inconvenient. This is not confusion. It is resistance. Jesus said, “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine” ~John 7:17. Willingness comes before understanding.

The gospel is not missing. It has been given. Repeating the question does not make it deeper. It only reveals an unwillingness to accept what God has already made plain.

 

[bdavidc]

Acts 28 is wrong I am mid acts

Moving the line does not fix the error. Call it Acts 28 or mid-Acts, it is the same move. You are still pushing a delayed Body of Christ, still slicing believers into stages Scripture never names, and still implying truth was withheld and later unlocked. Shifting the start date a few chapters earlier does not make it biblical.

The Bible never says the church began mid-Acts. Luke calls it the church early and without apology ~Acts 5:11; ~Acts 9:31. Paul says he persecuted the church of God, singular ~1 Corinthians 15:9. He says Gentiles are added to the same body ~Ephesians 3:6. He says there is one body ~Ephesians 4:4. Scripture never pauses the church, reboots it, or runs two bodies side by side.

This is not new light. It is old division with a relocated starting line. “Is Christ divided?” ~1 Corinthians 1:13. One gospel. One body. One Lord. The Word of God is plain.

 

[amigo de christo]

Moving the line does not fix the error. Call it Acts 28 or mid-Acts, it is the same move. You are still pushing a delayed Body of Christ, still slicing believers into stages Scripture never names, and still implying truth was withheld and later unlocked. Shifting the start date a few chapters earlier does not make it biblical.

The Bible never says the church began mid-Acts. Luke calls it the church early and without apology ~Acts 5:11; ~Acts 9:31. Paul says he persecuted the church of God, singular ~1 Corinthians 15:9. He says Gentiles are added to the same body ~Ephesians 3:6. He says there is one body ~Ephesians 4:4. Scripture never pauses the church, reboots it, or runs two bodies side by side.

This is not new light. It is old division with a relocated starting line. “Is Christ divided?” ~1 Corinthians 1:13. One gospel. One body. One Lord. The Word of God is plain.

just like they twist the doctri ne of paul by their own pauline
so too do they twist anything to fit pauline .
Acts twenty eight , acc ording to their view CONT RADICTS JESUS , the apostels and yes even pauls doctrine .
So they can call it acts twenty eight or even mid acts or whatever they desire .
THEY do with it as they and even others do
TWIST SCRIPS unto their own destruction . THAT TOO is what EVERY false teacher has in common .
ITS NOT the doctrin e they teach cause even their false doctrines contradict the other false doctrines of other false teachers .
But what they all do is CONTRADICT ALL MIGHTY GOD and the scrips
as they twist them and have made them into what i term pretzel swiss cheese doctrine .
pretzel for its highly twisted
swiss cheese cause it always has more holes in it than do swiss cheese . just a friendly reminder to us all .
Frankly i dont care what wolf stands up and says HEY if i am elected to lead you i promise i shall be vegeterian .
FOR beleive me they do lie . a wolf can be no more vegeterian than a cheetah change its spots .

 

[Doug]

The gospel has already been stated, plainly, from Scripture. Christ died for sins, was buried, and rose again. Salvation is by grace through faith in Him. One cross. One gospel ~1 Corinthians 15:3–4; ~Ephesians 2:8–9. That answer has not been avoided.

I was asking David but since you answered I am confused as to what you believe
In post #13 you cited John 3:16 and the gospel of the kingdom but here the death and resurrection
Do you think all of it is the gospel?

 

[Doug]

Call it Acts 28 or mid-Acts, it is the same move

Just so you know Acts 28 says Paul only received the mystery while in prison and are only in the prison epistles. This negates prior epistles that spoke of the mystery and the body of Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

I was asking David but since you answered I am confused as to what you believe
In post #13 you cited John 3:16 and the gospel of the kingdom but here the death and resurrection
Do you think all of it is the gospel?

@bdavidc and @amigo de christo and myself are here for you = we are working together to help you.

 

[Doug]

@bdavidc and @amigo de christo and myself are here for you = we are working together to help you.

I still dont know what gospel you believe, please tell me

 

[Justified]

[John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd."
[John 11:51 KJV] "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;"
[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

You are reading into those texts. They do not implicitly or explicitly support your assertions.

The church began largely as Jews but also Jewish converts, meaning they were ethnic Gentiles. Then the gospel was sent out to Gentile nations and they were grafted in. There has always been one gospel for one church that is made up of all Jewish and Gentile sheep.

[Matthew 25:32 KJV] "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:"
[Matthew 25:33 KJV] "And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."
[Matthew 25:34 KJV] "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"............the sheep on his right hand are the Gentiles that will inherit the kingdom based on how they treated Israel...........[Matthew 25:40 KJV] "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me."

This doesn’t support your assertion either. You’re making a distinction where Jesus doesn’t. The only basis of the distinction between sheep and goats is how followers of Christ were treated, and, I would argue, by extension even the unbelieving poor and vulnerable. You’re reading into the context that sheep only refers to Jews, but the entire biblical context refutes that idea—a sheep is a follower of God and, more specifically in the NT, a follower of Christ.

Rev. 20:11-15 is also relevant context.

 

[amigo de christo]

You are reading into those texts. They do not implicitly or explicitly support your assertions.

The church began largely as Jews but also Jewish converts, meaning they were ethnic Gentiles. Then the gospel was sent out to Gentile nations and they were grafted in. There has always been one gospel for one church that is made up of all Jewish and Gentile sheep.



This doesn’t support your assertion either. You’re making a distinction where Jesus doesn’t. The only basis of the distinction between sheep and goats is how followers of Christ were treated, and, I would argue, by extension even the unbelieving poor and vulnerable. You’re reading into the context that sheep only refers to Jews, but the entire biblical context refutes that idea—a sheep is a follower of God and, more specifically in the NT, a follower of Christ.

Rev. 20:11-15 is also relevant context.

yes indeed there be only one true gospel
and the sheep have preached it from the beginning . From the days of pentecost and onwards
the sheep always preached the one same gospel , to the jew and to the gentile .
Wherein One peoples , one fold , one body , one tree , one faith , one Kingdom o God and of Christ ,
where each was added in by faith in JESUS the Glorious Christ . The middle wall busted down
and the two made one . Beleiving jews and gentiles . ONE GOSPEL
Never two gospels . ONLY ONE preached to the jews and then later on the rooftop
Peter would be called to begin the SAME gospel to also the gentiles .
By which later paul himself would do the same . The very gospel he once attacked
Paul would now preach to both jew and gentile , to all that had breath . ONE GOSPEL
and only ONE gospel . For there is only ONE CHURCH , ONE BODY , ONE BRIDE AND WIFE
consisting of those who beleive in the GLORIOUS KING JESUS . Wherein CHRIST IS ALL and in all .
NOW to the trenches
because that gospel is UNDER attack by means of a false love ecumenical w hore and her father the d ragon
of which many now are co workers in that kingdom of darkness . PREACH JESUS to the last and final breath .

 

[amigo de christo]

@bdavidc and @amigo de christo and myself are here for you = we are working together to help you.

= get every man woman and c hild out of anything ecumeincal and now .
JESUS preaching time in the house .

 

[bdavidc]

I was asking David but since you answered I am confused as to what you believe
In post #13 you cited John 3:16 and the gospel of the kingdom but here the death and resurrection
Do you think all of it is the gospel?

Doug, it's not that hard. The Bible has already spoken, and this has been answered.

There is not more than one gospel. There is only ONE gospel. Not a gospel for different times or different audiences. Paul explains it simply. “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” ~1 Corinthians 15:3–4. This is the gospel of salvation.

John 3:16 does not offer another message. It proclaims the same thing from a different perspective. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” To believe in the Son is to believe who He is and what He came to do on earth. Jesus did not come to earth to merely proclaim a kingdom. He came to earth to give His life. “The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many” ~Matthew 20:28.

Jesus’ message of the kingdom was pointing to the cross. After His resurrection the message is clear. “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day” ~Luke 24:46. Same message. Same salvation. Same Gospel, now revealed.

Paul puts the final nail in this debate. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel. not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. ~ Galatians 1:6-7 Mixing or dividing messages only creates confusion that Scripture itself condemns.

No there is not a menu of gospels to pick and choose from. There is ONE gospel. Centered on Christ. Perfectly completed at the cross. Demonstrated by the resurrection. And by faith ALONE we receive it. Deal with that answer whether you like it or not.

 

[bdavidc]

Just so you know Acts 28 says Paul only received the mystery while in prison and are only in the prison epistles. This negates prior epistles that spoke of the mystery and the body of Christ.

And just so you know: Acts 28 nowhere says Paul only received the mystery while in prison. Scripture clearly says otherwise.

Paul clearly says he received the mystery prior to prison, not had it hidden away from him until arriving to Rome. He himself writes, “By revelation he made known unto me the mystery; as I wrote afore in few words” ~Ephesians 3:3. Ephesians 3:3 alone debunks the whole prison epistle idea that the mystery only showed up while Paul was in prison because Paul plainly states he had already written about it previously.

He even gets more direct in Galatians which was written years before the events of Acts 28. “When it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen” ~Galatians 1:15–16. Remember this, Gentile body truth was revealed to Paul from the beginning of his commission.

Notice Paul openly teaches about the body of Christ plainly in 1 Corinthians. We know 1 Corinthians wasn’t written during or after Acts 28 because no one dates it that far.

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles” ~1 Corinthians 12:13. One body, plain and simple. Mystery revealed Jews and Gentiles are united in Christ years before Paul’s imprisonment in Rome!

Go ahead and read Colossians if you don’t believe me. Paul says “The mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints” ~Colossians 1:26. “Now” doesn’t refer to Rome. It’s referring to the time of the apostles when Christ had been revealed and was being preached.

Acts 28 speaks of Israel’s judgment (being hardheaded/blind) over their Messiah. It doesn’t say the gospel started when Paul arrived in Rome nor does it say Paul suddenly received revelation about the body of Christ while in prison.

Christ revealed to Paul he died for both Jews and Gentiles, resurrected, and we are now one in him before the events of Acts 28 took place. “I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified” ~1 Corinthians 2:2. Jesus Christ crucified holds the mystery of the Gospel; revealing Jew and Gentile are one in Him.

Acts 28 does not overthrow previous letters Paul wrote. Scripture clearly says the opposite took place. Paul received revelation from Christ about the mystery and preached it openly, consistently, and repeatedly before prison, during prison, and after prison. The Word of God is clear on this matter.

 

[Ezra]

I am willing to discuss anytjing with you
I would just wish for you to consider that what I say is supported by scripture or ask me for scripture to validate it

its not the scripture its your interpretation i am disagreeing with.. there are no such thing as 2 separate Churches one foundation built upon the rock ( THE lord Jesus Christ ) ONE Lord ONE Faith ONE baptism ONE BODY OF CHRIST AKA Ekalesia THAT HAS MANY MEMBERS . i realize your of the Pauline movement . all your scripture interpretation has been countered by other scripture that does not agree with you. for the record i have considered i am willing to look at most any teaching .. but i am not so open minded .. that i jump on board of just any 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;. i am not accusing you of depiction.

but i am saying what your trying prove does not line up with scripture

 

[Ezra]

sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

judgment goats are not of God

 

[David in NJ]

I was asking David but since you answered I am confused as to what you believe
In post #13 you cited John 3:16 and the gospel of the kingdom but here the death and resurrection
Do you think all of it is the gospel?

Doug,
The Gospel is Simple = so Simple that JESUS Said this:

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
Jesus invited a little child to stand among them.
“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Now ask yourself this question: How many times did JESUS CHRIST have to die for our sins?

Answer: ONCE = Only One Time = Hebrews 9:28
Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

One Savior Jesus Christ
One Cross
One Offering of Himself on the Cross for the sins of the world = One Gospel for all nations

Matthew 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[Lambano]

I dont remember, did I ever ask you to tell me the gospel you believe?
If so please tell me again I dont remember

I would take the position that it doesn't matter. We're not saved by believing some theological proposition about Jesus Christ; we're saved because we trust the Person of Jesus Christ.

And if a person believes BOTH that the Kingdom of God is at hand AND that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, so much the better. I don't see them as being mutually exclusive.

 

[Fred J]

I contend that Acts 15 revels that there was indeed two churches. There was the little flock Jerusalem church and the body of Christ that, for a time, existed together.

[Acts 11:19 KJV] "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.".........No Gentiles were being preached to. We have to be careful in assuming which church is being referred to in Galatians 2 and Acts 15. There were churches in Antioch before Paul was saved. Paul persecuted the little flock Jerusalem church and they were scattered as far as Antioch. These churches were not body of Christ churches, they were the little flock Jerusalem churches.

[Acts 15:1 KJV] "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.".........If they came down from Judea, chances are these men who said the Gentile believers had to be circumcised were not from the body of Christ, but from the little flock church (I will explain). ........ [Acts 15:2 KJV] "When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.".........Paul and Barnabas disputed with the men from Judea, not with the body of Christ members. It was decided that Paul and Barnabas and some of "them" from Judea should go to Jerusalem about this matter. If Paul was going to the apostles and elders, these apostles and elders were from the little flock Jerusalem church.

Paul could not have been disputing about matters within his ministry, but was dealing with stipulations being imposed on Gentile believers by some of the believing circumcision little flock..........[Galatians 1:22 KJV] "And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:".........Paul says the churches of Judea were in Christ; the Jews in the little flock who believed on the name of Christ were in Christ, not just those in the body of Christ. ........Paul was unknown to the churches of Judea who only knew he persecuted them. That is why I said that those who came down from Judea weren't in the body of Christ, the churches of Judea didn't know Paul..........[Galatians 1:23 KJV] "But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.".......It is very doubtful that those from Judea were in the body of Christ.

[Acts 15:22 KJV] "Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:".........When James says they would send men from their OWN company that precludes them from being members of the body of Christ. The apostle and elders sent chosen men of their own company which is those of the little flock, NOT of the body of Christ along with Paul and Barnabas. This wasn't done by Paul alone.
[Acts 15:23 KJV] "And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:"
[Acts 15:24 KJV] "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:".......It is certain that those who said the Gentiles had to keep the law of Moses were from the little flock churches and not the body of Christ members. The apostles and elders of the little flock did not command anybody to go to the Gentiles and say they had to keep the law.
[Acts 15:25 KJV] "It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"........They sent believing little flock members WITH Paul and Barnabas. There was the little flock and the body of Christ in view here.
No doubt there were two churches here and saying there was just one church is incorrect.

The little flock church are those who believed the preaching of Jesus and the twelve. They believed only on the name of Jesus, that he was Christ, the Son of God, and had life by his name. They were persecuted and scattered under Paul. They were still in existence during the conversion and some of the ministry of Paul. The elders and apostles from the little flock church met with Paul in the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. The dispute arose from the little flock saying that Gentiles would have to follow the law of Moses. The little flock were the ones who disputed with Paul. This question would have impacted Paul and the church who were preaching liberty in Christ and that Gentiles weren't under the law.

Apparently to your 'shortsightedness', you do see 'twain' even scripturally that there're 2 churches to you, therefore 'twain' body of Christ.

And 1 of them to you is the church of the 'little flock Jews', hence take furthermore scripture out of context weave them together to prove your wild stories.

But to Paul they're merely 'counterfeits' and 'imposters' or rather 'sneaked Jews' as 'spies', even those of the Pharisees.

Galatians 2:
4. And that because of false brethren unaware brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Apparently you come from the same little flock church of blind guides of the blind, and keep up with the bad works.