Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Wrangler]

The Holy Spirit being the spirit of God would work except for the fact that He is portrayed as a He.

You don't believe that males have male spirits and females have female spirits? If not, what kind of spirit do they have?

 

[Wrangler]

You might be getting tired of it Trevor...and I'm more tired of it than you are...
but guess what?
The Trinity IS a Christian doctrine -whether YOU care to accept it or not.

And, yes sir, those that do not accept the Trinity cannot be Christian because
Christians believe that Jesus is God.

It's important for you to know that you are NOT following the Christian religion.

What's in a word? What do you call someone who follows Jesus and the way he taught us to live?

Consider this more precise rendering of what @TrevorHL might be trying to say.

You might be getting tired of it Trevor...and I'm more tired of it than you are...but guess what?

The Trinity IS a Trinitarian doctrine -whether YOU care to accept it or not.

And, yes sir, those that do not accept the Trinity cannot be Trinitarian because

Trinitarians believe that Jesus is God.

It's important for you to know that you are NOT following the Trinitarian religion.

 

[GodsGrace]

What's in a word? What do you call someone who follows Jesus and the way he taught us to live?

Thank you Wrangler,
For confirming the point I've been making the past few months...
for proving that my statements have been correct regarding the Christian religion and how some are attempting to change it.

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen:

Wrangler stated: WHAT'S IN A WORD?

IOW, The WORD Christianity has no meaning.

It has no definition.

It can mean what ANYONE wants it to mean, its meaning can be changed to adhere to whatever a person wants it to mean.

However a person understands Christianity is just fine....
it matters not that that what that person believes has nothing to do with the Christian religion.

That person has made up his own definiton of it...

And WE CHRISTIANS must go along with how that person understands it..
NOT how the Apostles taught it or how the early church taught it.

So, according to Wrangler all we need to do to be Christian is.

1. Follow Jesus.
2. Live how he says.


Now, WHY would anyone want to follow this Jesus guy?
What makes HIM any better than any other guy?
Wouldn't Buddha do just as nicely?
I have to live how HE says?
Why?

AND

Could you answer this then:
The following believe in Jesus.
Are they CHRISTIAN?

JEHOVAH WITNESSES
CHRISTIAN SCIENCE
LATTER DAY SAINTS
UNITARIANISM
BAHA'I

Consider this more precise rendering of what @TrevorHL might be trying to say.

You might be getting tired of it Trevor...and I'm more tired of it than you are...but guess what?

The Trinity IS a Trinitarian doctrine -whether YOU care to accept it or not.

And, yes sir, those that do not accept the Trinity cannot be Trinitarian because

Trinitarians believe that Jesus is God.

It's important for you to know that you are NOT following the Trinitarian religion.

Let's repeat:
If a person does NOT believe in the Trinity,,,,
he cannot be defined as Christian.

 

[Beebster]

That is a false statement.
To declare such a thing also goes against forum rules.

 

[GodsGrace]

That is a false statement.
To declare such a thing also goes against forum rules.

Are you addressnig me?
What false statement have I made?

Especially one that goes against forum rules.
Have you read the rules?
Have you read the statement of faith?
Maybe not.

Perhaps you'd care to reply to the following question of mine?:


Could you answer this then:
The following believe in Jesus.
Are they CHRISTIAN?

JEHOVAH WITNESSES
CHRISTIAN SCIENCE
LATTER DAY SAINTS
UNITARIANISM
BAHA'I

 

[Wrangler]

Thank you Wrangler,

Not really an answer to my question. I've come to expect you not to answer questions but pontificate at every opportunity.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

Why not post Psalm 110:1 and show me where I'm wrong on what the church has been teaching for 2 thousand years.

Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.:
Perhaps you are not familiar with Psalm 110:1 and its teaching even though it is possibly the most quoted OT reference in the NT, including the obvious allusion in Acts 7 which you seem to be avoiding. I suggest that unless you endorse what it clearly states and the doctrinal position that arises out of this verse and its NT exposition then it is not beneficial to continue our discussion. The One God, Yahweh, God the Father invites David's Lord and our Lord Jesus Christ to be seated at the right hand of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father in the Throne of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father.

And could you PLEASE stop telling me it's MY view on the Trinity.
The Trinity has been taught from the beginning.

There are many different perspectives (when was Jesus begotten?) and those that support the Trinity attempt to use different Scripture to support their view and perhaps from experience your so called support is rather unique, for example using Acts 7. This is the first time in many years and many discussions that I have encountered such a suggestion, and surprisingly it teaches the opposite to what you claim.

And could you please show how Daniel 7 is someone going UP TO HEAVEN?

Daniel 7:13-14 (KJV): 13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

The following believe in Jesus.
Are they CHRISTIAN?
UNITARIANISM

I consider that I am a Biblical Unitarian, "Biblical" to distinguish from many that would use the title Unitarian.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[GodsGrace]

Not really an answer to my question. I've come to expect you not to answer questions but pontificate at every opportunity.

That's because you don't like my asnwers.

They don't agree with your odd belief system.

I answered you FULLY.....

 

[Beebster]

Are you addressnig me?

I was yes.

What false statement have I made?

The following statement:

If a person does NOT believe in the Trinity,,,,
he cannot be defined as Christian.

That's false.
Had you said "cannot be defined as an orthodox Christian or as defined by this board," then you would be correct.

Not all Christians are orthodox.

Especially one that goes against forum rules.

This rule:
Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.

Perhaps you'd care to reply to the following question of mine?:

Could you answer this then:
The following believe in Jesus.
Are they CHRISTIAN?

JEHOVAH WITNESSES
CHRISTIAN SCIENCE
LATTER DAY SAINTS
UNITARIANISM
BAHA'I

You mean are they orthodox Christians right?

 

[GodsGrace]

I was yes.

The following statement:

That's false.
Had you said "cannot be defined as an orthodox Christian or as defined by this board," then you would be correct.

Not all Christians are orthodox.

Well Beepster, you gave me a like.
I thought you understood my post and agreed.

Apparently not.

You say not all Christians are orthodox.
Correct.
So WHY is someone that does not believe orthodox teaching still a Christian??

If they're not orthodox,
they're heterodox,
and thus the OPPOSITE of Christian.

And, let's be clear, there's only ONE TYPE of Christian.
The kind that believes the tenets of Christianity.

The major one is:
JESUS IS GOD.

This rule:
Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.

You mean are they orthodox Christians right?

NO.
Again.
If a person does not believe Jesus is God....
then they cannot be defined as Christian.

Read the Statement of Faith on this Forum (or on any Christian Forum).
If you can't find it, I'll be happy to post it for you.
You see Beebster...every Christian, and Christian organization, believes that Jesus is God.
Even this Forum !

And you're repeating about being orthodox.
Do you know what orthodox means??

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.:
Perhaps you are not familiar with Psalm 110:1 and its teaching even though it is possibly the most quoted OT reference in the NT, including the obvious allusion in Acts 7 which you seem to be avoiding. I suggest that unless you endorse what it clearly states and the doctrinal position that arises out of this verse and its NT exposition then it is not beneficial to continue our discussion. The One God, Yahweh, God the Father invites David's Lord and our Lord Jesus Christ to be seated at the right hand of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father in the Throne of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father.

I posted Acts 7 and explained it in detail.
Apparently you don't care to understand why Stephen was stoned to death.
Sad. Christian theologians DO understand why.

You have STILL not posted Psalm 110:1
Why you think I have to do your work for you is not understood by me.

If you want to discuss a verse, you'll have to post it and then explain what you THINK it means.

But to cut this short:
Here is what Christianity teaches.
The source is Gemini...short and to the point.
It's just not comfortable for you to see Jesus in the OT.


Psalm 110:1 declares a divine decree where Yahweh (the LORD) exalts the Messiah (David’s Lord) to the place of supreme honor, authority, and power at His right hand, promising total victory over all enemies. Used by Jesus to prove His divinity, it signifies His current reign and ultimate triumph.
Here is a breakdown of the key insights from Bible Hub commentaries:

Key Insights on Psalm 110:1

• "The LORD said to my Lord": This highlights a conversation between God the Father (Yahweh) and the Messiah (Adonai), establishing that the Messiah is greater than David. Jesus used this to affirm His messianic identity and divinity.
• "Sit at My right hand": This position signifies sharing equality, supreme power, authority, glory, and majesty with God. It is a posture of restful, everlasting kingship.
• "Until I make Your enemies a footstool": This imagery implies total subjugation and ultimate victory. It guarantees the Messiah's present rule and future triumph over all opposition.
• Prophetic Nature: Historically anchored in David's time, it is universally recognized as a messianic psalm predicting the risen Christ.

There are many different perspectives (when was Jesus begotten?)

Only ONE perspective Trevor.
And you don't know what BEGOTTEN means but I tire of explaining it.
Jesus ALWAYS existed as the 2nd Person of the Trinity..or The Son.

and those that support the Trinity attempt to use different Scripture to support their view and perhaps from experience your so called support is rather unique, for example using Acts 7. This is the first time in many years and many discussions that I have encountered such a suggestion, and surprisingly it teaches the opposite to what you claim.

But you don't show how it supports the OPPOSITE.
Making a proclamation does not make it correct.

Try to understand WHEN Stephen was stoned to death.

Does it remind you of any other time in the NT when a High Priest tore his robes due to Jesus stating a blaspheym?
What was that blasphemy?

Matthew 26:59-65
59 Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus, so that they might put Him to death.
60 They did not find any, even though many false witnesses came forward. But later on two came forward,
61 and said, "This man stated, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days.' "
62 The high priest stood up and said to Him, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"
63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."
64 Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter * you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy;
66 what do you think?" They answered, "He deserves death!"


Again, referring to Daniel 7:13-14
The bible is very consistent.

Daniel 7:13-14 (KJV): 13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

YOU said it was saying that the Son of Man was going TO heaven.
You haven't shown this to be correct.

I consider that I am a Biblical Unitarian, "Biblical" to distinguish from many that would use the title Unitarian.

Kind regards
Trevor

I do believe UNITARIAN was on my list on non-Christian organizations in post 926:

Could you answer this then:
The following believe in Jesus.
Are they CHRISTIAN?

JEHOVAH WITNESSES
CHRISTIAN SCIENCE
LATTER DAY SAINTS
UNITARIANISM
BAHA'I

So if YOU are Christian, then the others on this list are also Christian?

 

[Beebster]

You say not all Christians are orthodox.
Correct.

Correct.

So WHY is someone that does not believe orthodox teaching still a Christian??

You're kidding right?

If they're not orthodox,
they're heterodox,
and thus the OPPOSITE of Christian.

No. Opposite of orthodox.

And, let's be clear, there's only ONE TYPE of Christian.
The kind that believes the tenets of Christianity.

And who defines those tenets?

The major one is:
JESUS IS GOD.

I believe Jesus is God.

NO.
Again.
If a person does not believe Jesus is God....
then they cannot be defined as Christian.

That's not true and that wasn't you're original statement.
This was:

If a person does NOT believe in the Trinity,,,,
he cannot be defined as Christian.

I believe Jesus Christ is God but I do not subscribe to the trinity.
Am I Christian?

 

[GodsGrace]

Correct.

You're kidding right?

No Beepster.
I'm very serious about this.
If you do not accept orthodox Christianity,,,
you cannot be defined as Christian.

No. Opposite of orthodox.

No.

If you're heterodox,,,
you do NOT believe in the Christian religion.

And who defines those tenets?

Sir,
WE do not get to define them.
They were defined by the teachings of the Apostles
which were confirmed by the very early church and what it taught.

I believe Jesus is God.

Then why are we debating?

That's not true and that wasn't you're original statement.
This was:

I believe Jesus Christ is God but I do not subscribe to the trinity.
Am I Christian?

Oh.
Yes. This is STILL true.

We have some members on here who claim to be Christian but believe in Adoptionism,
Jesus became God at His baptism.
Some believe Jesus BECAME GOD at His birth.

You see, the Holy Spirit is also involved.
Father is God
Jesus is God
Holy Spirit is God

Sans the Trinity the above creates 3 Gods.
But there is only one.


You should read post 924 by another member.
THIS is what happens when we get to make up our own definiton of CHRISTIANITY.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Apostles taught that Yeshua is a God....."a God" not God.
The Apostles refereed to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord, sometime in the same verse. Example; the love of God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yeshua is Yahweh's begotten Son.
Yeshua refereed to Yahweh as His Father and His God.
Yeshua said, The Father is greater than I...
Over 50 My Father and My Father in Heaven, verses.
Yeshua said, That He did not do His will but the will of the Father. (Two wills}
Yahweh said, He is pleased with His Son. Not pleased with Himself.
Yeshua said, He did not know when the end of time was, but the Father did. (Two different minds)
Yeshua prayed to Yahweh in the garden with a request.
Yeshua said, He did not have the authority to grant John's mother's request for her sons to sit on either side of Him in Heaven.
Yeshua explained what the oneness concept meant in detail.
3 Gods in Heaven and 3 thrones in Heaven and Yeshua sits to the right of Yahweh.
Christians pray to Yeshua for forgiveness not Yahweh....Why do you think that is?
We are to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit....not baptized in the name of God. Baptized in the name of 3 Gods.
God is not a name it is a Divine position or title. So "is God" is an improper phrase.
The word Trinity is not in the scriptures....But Trinity means tri-unity not triune. I believe in the Trinity just as it shows up in the scriptures..... Yahweh and His begotten Son and the Holy Spirit.
The Trinity is not a 3 headed God.
One God with 3 aspects is strictly Pagan.
The 3 in 1 formula is a 4th century Roman Catholic Church doctrine that was forced on Christianity upon pain of excommunication or death.
The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.
Over a hundred scriptures prove the 3 in 1 God formula false. When you have over a hundred scriptures supporting your belief, you can be confident that your belief is in tune with the scriptures as a whole.
How many scriptures specifically support the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity?

 

[amigo de christo]

Since you will not clarify your belief system...it IS difficult to speak to you regarding it.

You SEEM to be a universalist.
Maybe.

Just want everyone reading along to know that we get JUDGED at the time of our death.
If universalism is correct
JUDGEMENT IS NOT NECESSARY since we will all be saved.



Yes sir.
You have a lot to learn if you think Luke 16:19-31 is a parable.



That parable has to do with what I taught you.

It does NOT refer to what you're speaking of.
No sir.

Then prepare ...........
to quickly pull up a chair .
For what i say to one i say to all . INCUSIVISM IS UNVERISALISM .
AND WHO ya think pushed that onto us through her ecumeincal call and cry .
People we are all being decieved . THE GREATEST of the falling away IS PEAKING .
THE TIME has long come that they do not endure sound doctrine any longer .
fables and false tales of a love and of a god is being sung . ONLY IT AINT THE GOD OR HIS LOVE .
WE have to do something . THIS enitity rides high ov er the world now
and she influences the nations , poltiicans bow to her
The false religoins come to her call
As have much of even all of protesetant ville .
SHE cries to any man any woman of any group and she will blend her message to suit their ears
as though she is of them . I never in all my days seen a delusion like this .
Her father is none other than he who first tempted eve in the garden
and now he tempts the woman yet again . as in the very church . And many heed this cry
of the voice of a very wise singer indeed . WHO KNOWS how to pander to the flesh of any human being alive .
WE MUST GET THEM BACK to the BIBLE NOW . GET THEM back to preaching JESUS NOW .
And all things HE and later the apostels did teach NOW .
WE have been infiltrated . AS have even the false religoins too . though they were already decieved .
SHE NOW comes to call them too and us all to merge as one under HER SHADE
and under her god and its love . AND BELIEVE ME it AINT THE GOD or HIS LOVE . This people dont even
beleive the basics anymore . the gopsel is being abandoned for false love and a broad common ground road .

 

[Beebster]

No Beepster.
I'm very serious about this.
If you do not accept orthodox Christianity,,,
you cannot be defined as Christian.

That wasn't so hard to admit was it?
When put that way, you are not in violation of board rules.
That does sound partial though and we did have a conversation about partiality earlier.

No.

If you're heterodox,,,
you do NOT believe in the Christian religion.

Not true. It means you don't believe the orthodox view.
You can say heterodox Christian you know.

Sir,
WE do not get to define them.
They were defined by the teachings of the Apostles
which were confirmed by the very early church and what it taught.

I'd like you to show me where the apostles defined the word "trinity."

Oh.
Yes. This is STILL true.

Still true that I'm not Christian?

You should read post 924 by another member.
THIS is what happens when we get to make up our own definiton of CHRISTIANITY.

924 was by you and what prompted this discussion.

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you Wrangler,
For confirming the point I've been making the past few months...
for proving that my statements have been correct regarding the Christian religion and how some are attempting to change it.

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen:

Wrangler stated: WHAT'S IN A WORD?

IOW, The WORD Christianity has no meaning.

It has no definition.

It can mean what ANYONE wants it to mean, its meaning can be changed to adhere to whatever a person wants it to mean.

However a person understands Christianity is just fine....
it matters not that that what that person believes has nothing to do with the Christian religion.

That person has made up his own definiton of it...

And WE CHRISTIANS must go along with how that person understands it..
NOT how the Apostles taught it or how the early church taught it.

So, according to Wrangler all we need to do to be Christian is.

1. Follow Jesus.
2. Live how he says.


Now, WHY would anyone want to follow this Jesus guy?
What makes HIM any better than any other guy?
Wouldn't Buddha do just as nicely?
I have to live how HE says?
Why?

AND

Could you answer this then:
The following believe in Jesus.
Are they CHRISTIAN?

JEHOVAH WITNESSES
CHRISTIAN SCIENCE
LATTER DAY SAINTS
UNITARIANISM
BAHA'I






Let's repeat:
If a person does NOT believe in the Trinity,,,,
he cannot be defined as Christian.

JEHOVAH WITNESSES
CHRISTIAN SCIENCE
LATTER DAY SAINTS
UNITARIANISM
BAHA'I
You asked a question . now prepare for the answer and prepare to weep .
NO THEY ARE NOT . this is not me condmening them , its me speaking the truth .
And that list IS longer than this one .
You are correct about what has come upon christainanity my friend .
Its now all about WHAT I believe or tony beleives or sally beleives , IT IS NOT ABOUT THE T RUTH AT ALL anymore .
GET THEM IN THE BIBLE . FOR the love of all that is holy we have to get them in the bible
and we have to warn this people of this most deadly delusion that has crept in under the guise
of tolerance , of love , of unity , of ecumeincism and all .
GUESS who the new god is , The god of the mi rror . ITS all about the person and his her beleifs .
NOT ABOUT WHAT GOD SAYS , NOT ABOUT THE TRUTH , cause doctrine, WELL that dont matter anymore .
WE got duped bad sister . real bad . the sheep must do as jude once called the church to do .
STAND UP and CONTEND for true faith NOW , while there still be time to do so .
Cause a massive amount of false ones have not only crept in , SISTER THEY LEAD THIS PEOPLE now .

 

[amigo de christo]

No Beepster.
I'm very serious about this.
If you do not accept orthodox Christianity,,,
you cannot be defined as Christian.


No.

If you're heterodox,,,
you do NOT believe in the Christian religion.

Sir,
WE do not get to define them.
They were defined by the teachings of the Apostles
which were confirmed by the very early church and what it taught.


Then why are we debating?

Oh.
Yes. This is STILL true.

We have some members on here who claim to be Christian but believe in Adoptionism,
Jesus became God at His baptism.
Some believe Jesus BECAME GOD at His birth.

You see, the Holy Spirit is also involved.
Father is God
Jesus is God
Holy Spirit is God

Sans the Trinity the above creates 3 Gods.
But there is only one.


You should read post 924 by another member.
THIS is what happens when we get to make up our own definiton of CHRISTIANITY.

The question that begs to be asked and answered is
WHO decides what the tenents are .
The answer GOD DID , CHRIST DID , the aposetles kept and taught them and delivered them unto the people .
Get them IN the bible .
And let us take note . IF it is written in the bible , THEN BELEIVE IT .
SO lets start with this .
IN the beginning was THE WORD
and the WORD was with GOD
and the WORD was ....................................not a god , BUT GOD .
IT IS WRITTEN and thus let no man woman or child say otherwise . IF Even they dont understand it , BELIEVE IT
understanding comes in time and specially the more we read that bible and Go to GOD in prayer .
But if it is already written in the scriptures . BELIEVE IT and NEVER twist it .

 

[amigo de christo]

That wasn't so hard to admit was it?
When put that way, you are not in violation of board rules.
That does sound partial though and we did have a conversation about partiality earlier.

Not true. It means you don't believe the orthodox view.
You can say heterodox Christian you know.

I'd like you to show me where the apostles defined the word "trinity."

Still true that I'm not Christian?

924 was by you and what prompted this discussion.

heres a simple question .
two apples plus two apples is ...................how many apples . FOUR right .
I bet we all agree on that .
Now if another says two apples plus two apples is five , DOES that make it five . NOPE .
So either we beleive its four or we dont . but four is the right answer . not five , n ot six , not three.
SO TELL ME beebster
HOW MANY HERE cliam to BELEIVE THE GOSPEL . i b et you would say you do .
MANY say they do in the christain realm .
THE gospel clearly s tates that TO BE SAVED one must BELIEVE that GOD rose CHRIST from the dead
and confess him by mouth . for with the heart man beleives unto rigtheousness and by confession is salvation .
SO lets see IF YOU or others HERE REALLY DO BELIEVE THIS .
DO YOU truly as a child beleive the gospel.
IF SO
How come so many now believe GOD is okay with ALL the religoins , THAT In fact
muslims , buddists , and you name it , are all coming to GOD in different ways
THAT IN FACT we all BELIEVE on the same GOD . cause THAT IS A LIE .
THEM false religions DO NOT BLEIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST , the SON OF GOD
SO let me make a a few statements and YOU SEE if YOU REALLY DO BELIEVE JESUS , HIS GOSPEL .
THEM false religoins DO NOT serve the same GOD WE DO .THEY do NOT beleive the testimony
that GOD gave of the SON . THUS they are calling GOD A LIAR .
now if that seems hateful , read JOHN padnah . HE SAID IT . and he e ven says
WHO is a liar but he who DENEIS JESUS IS THE CHRIST , HE IS ANTI CHRIST .
but today they say DONT JUDGE , DONT JUDGE them , they good people in all religoins
THEY love GOD too . OOPS i guess what they really beleive AIINT THE GOSPEL
IT IS UNBELIEF . EITHER YOU BLEIEVE IT OR ya dont , but it cant be BOTH . its unbelif .

 

[amigo de christo]

So much for this other so called gods love now . WE BEEN DUPED folks . EITHER WE BELEIVE GOD or we dont
AND IF WE BELIEVE GOD we would have BELIEVED HIS CHRIST , HIS GOSPEL , HIS WORDS . i shun the all inclusive
ecmeincal false love doctrine to the pits of darkness from whence it sprang . JESUS PREAC HING TIME .