Who is "the god of this world"? God or satan?

[1stCenturyLady]

Now you are on another subject = which is True, yet though these two subjects of thought seem to be saying the same, they are not.

The FATHER has His own Mind, CHRIST has His own Mind, the HOLY SPIRIT has His own Mind.

Elohim = FATHER/WORD-SON/HOLY SPIRIT are of One MIND since THEY are ECHAD

Can you SEE the difference???

You claimed I said that Jesus was the mind of the Father. I said just the opposite. The Father was the mind of Jesus.

How do you think Jesus only did what He saw the Father doing in heaven? Through His mind. It is saying this in the same sense as we who are born again of the Spirit have a new mind - the mind of Christ. What that is actually meaning is we have the nature of Christ. The old man, the sin nature - is dead.

Do you believe that? Most are taught but some somehow actually believe that born again Christians still have a sin nature. Pathetic!!! We who are born again are free from sin. The sin nature has a few names - carnal, old man, and "the flesh." We are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within us. And anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ, does not belong to Him. That is only to the born again of the Spirit.

 

[PS95]

Yes God said = Jehovah, not Jesus. There was no being named Jesus in the OT.
Through him= another did it in every language on Earth.

That's not an answer to my Q-
WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD?
Please read these passages-

2 Peter 3:5-7
5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water.
WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD?

PSALM 33
6By the word of YHWH the heavens were made,

And by the breath of His mouth all their hosts.

7He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;

He puts the depths in storehouses.

8Let all the earth fear the LORD;

Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.

9For He spoke, and it was done;

He commanded, and it stood firm.

WHO SPOKE in v 9? THE WORD--- see verse 6.


Heb 11:3
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.


Again- WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD?
John 1:1,3 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
ALL THINGS WERE MADE through Him and without HIM NOTHING was made that was made.

WHO is the Word of God? Did an angel speak all things into creation? OR did GOD create thru HIS WORD who spoke?
What say you Keiw? WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD? - What does it say?

 

[David in NJ]

In Greek the Word is not called God at John 1:1, he is called god. Catholicism put God to fit false council teachings. You best relook.
Deut 5:7=YHVH(Jehovah)

Genesis is the Foundation of All Truth that will follow.

Genesis and Hebrew is the KEY to unlocking the Riches of His Glory.

But you need the Ruach HaKodesh, which is the 2nd Promise of the FATHER

There is Only ONE WAY to receiving the Baptism in/of the Ruach HaKodesh = John 14:15-18

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Usually where the New Testament speaks about God, it just says 'ὁ θεὸς' (the God). It is strange in this verse that it qualifies it as "the god of this world." Why specify if God is the God of everything?

I think... the translation of the word 'world' is confusing. The New Testament translates three Greek words as 'world:' κόσμος, γῆ, and αἰών. Cosmos refers the order of things in the universe. Ge refers to the physical dirt beneath our feet. But it's the third word, Aion, that is used in this verse. It usually refers to a period of time, and is sometimes called an 'age' or an 'era.'

I think the meaning of the verse would be clearer if it was translated like...

4:4 ...that God, in this era, has blinded the minds of the unbelieving...

KEEP it the WAY The GOD intended:

"the god of this aionos/era has blinded the minds lest the glorious Gospel should shine into them."

We know that this passage clearly distinguishes between The God of our Lord Jesus Christ and "the god of this aionos/world"

Why is "aionos" used here? = that is what you need and @ewq1938 to discover!!! = yet you already know!!!

age
αἰῶνος (aiōnos)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 165: From the same as aei; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity; by implication, the world; specially a Messianic period.

Here is a clue = "If satan cast out satan..........."

 

[David in NJ]

You claimed I said that Jesus was the mind of the Father. I said just the opposite. The Father was the mind of Jesus.

How do you think Jesus only did what He saw the Father doing in heaven? Through His mind. It is saying this in the same sense as we who are born again of the Spirit have a new mind - the mind of Christ. What that is actually meaning is we have the nature of Christ. The old man, the sin nature - is dead.

Do you believe that? Most are taught but some somehow actually believe that born again Christians still have a sin nature. Pathetic!!! We who are born again are free from sin. The sin nature has a few names - carnal, old man, and "the flesh." We are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within us. And anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ, does not belong to Him. That is only to the born again of the Spirit.

So you cannot SEE the difference then...........OK, remain in your mind

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, heard it many times = great song!!!

Have done/obeyed the Will of the FATHER???

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the Name which is Above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
A.) of those in heaven,
B.) and of those on earth,
C.)and of those under the earth,
D.) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Have you obeyed and given GOD the GLORY???

Since you obeyed the FATHER according to His Will as Declared in Phillipians 2:5-11, which is the Gospel.

Now go Further with the FATHER in receiving His Second Promise!!!

The Lord Jesus Christ is the FIRST Promise of the FATHER, now seek with all your heart, in faith in the Word, the Second Promise

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." - John 14:15-18

There is nothing more Important!!!

 

[amigo de christo]

AMEN, for the CLEAR Evidence is Overwhelming

Even ol doubting thomas Would see and would then proclaim
what no other was ever called . They may have called king david lord
but no man e ver used the phrase MY LORD AND MY GOD to him or to any other prophet .
This generation is too busy heeding men that keep adding in words
Like a god , a word , and etc . Men heed what men heed .
Sheep heed TRUTH and what is in that bible is TRUTH . Sheep read n heed them words .
TO the trenches one and to the trenches all . This will all hit a peak .
What began even in the days of john , of paul of peter and them all
Has not been at rest , ITS been growing and now its massive . That which is of the mystery of inquity
which is of anti christ , HAS SWOLLEN and soon so too will THIS TRIBULATION against the saints .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Oh the jw and their watchtower and greek redone bible
is more than just a hiccup . As i am sure you well know that my friend .
Its a death trap meant to keep the c hidren trapped in the d arkness and far f rom THE LI GHT
by which they could have SEEN their e rror .
For what i say to one i say to all .
yes the reminder must be brought again , and even to those who know it
IT is but good refreshment to the so ul .
SO here it is for all to see .
IT is written , and no prophet, king , not moses or any other would lay cliam to this title .
I AM THE FIRST and THE LAST . TELL THEM that I AM has sent thee .
Now where do we hear these words and from WHOM do we hear them . WELL FROM GOD of course .
Now do we hear such a title and such words being spoken by another IN THE NEW TESTAMENT .
WHY YES we surely do .
AND i turned to see the voice that had spoken to me
and i seen one like unto the SON OF MAN
and What did THIS one say to john .
Fear not , I AM THE FIRST and THE LAST . And some time earlier while THIS ONE
was on earth had said , BEFORE abraham was .................I AM . and they PICKED UP STONES ....................
Actually its really something when you t hink about it .
here they were ready to STONE the very one who had created all and accused him of blasphemy
against GOD , when it was THEY WHO BLASPHEMED GOD . something else aint it . what a mystery this is
That GOD was manifested in the flesh
seen of angels , preached unto the world , recieved back up into Glory .
For in the beginning was THE WORD and the Word was with GOD and the Word was GOD . what a mystery indeed .
The FATHER revealed IN THE SON ,WHO MANIFESTED THE NAME OF GOD .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

They dont . And always remember had they not been as the pharisees WHO SAID I SEE
well their sin had not remained on them . WHO were they rejecting .
And all the while who were they claiming to know . SAME ONE .
They claimed they followed moses , G OD was their father
but had that been the case they had BELEIVED in HE WHOM GOD did send and whom MOSES had pointed too all along .
But now you say WE SEE , therefore your SIN remains .
Many do not realize they are but blind and that their sin remains upon them .
And worse , due to ecumenical interfaith who has come to shine the greater darkness unto them
They be led as one man and one heart to the pits of their own perdtion .
There is something we need to be reminded of again .
GOD will not be denied . And if one denies the SON , THEY DO DENY THE FATHER .
Just a reminder for us all to hear and to receive .

 

[amigo de christo]

AMEN, for the CLEAR Evidence is Overwhelming

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So you cannot SEE the difference then...........OK, remain in your mind

You quoted me the opposite of what I said. So, why are you being rude to me???

You could have at least answered my question, and I'll add another one. Answer me without the immature attitude this time. Do you believe you are born again? If so, do you believe you still have a sin nature? If so, why? Here is an opportunity to learn something. Don't waste it.

 

[ewq1938]

GOD gave the Jews over to blindness of the MESSIAH in the Torah/OT Prophets = "veil of Moses"

Yes and sincve it is God blinding ppl in 2Co 3:14 , it is still God doing the blinding of ppl 8 verses later when God is called the God of the Aion, a title that does not belong to satan.



2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2Co 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you believe Jesus has blinded lost people to the Gospel?

Jesus' father did that, but yes.

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[ewq1938]

No son is his Father.

No son can also be his own father. Only Oneness/Trinity deniers think something like that.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It says he created all things so he cannot have created himself because you have to exist before creating.

Wow!....you mean God created his firstborn son, so that he could have the pleasure of working along with his Father in the creation of “all things”?

You are correct...he could not have created himself. He didn’t have to....because he is the Son, he is not his Father. He is “begotten”, which means he needed a ‘begetter’. And because he is “before all things” he was “begotten” long before anything else existed.

The one we call Jesus was not created, talking about him before incarnation.

The better translation:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

He was not the first to be born so this is about importance not order of literal birth.

Again, you are correct, the man Jesus did not exist before his human birth.
The son of God was “with” his Father in heaven “in the beginning” as it says in John 1:1-3.
What “beginning” is this? The Father did not have a beginning.
The Son is his “firstborn”. He did have a beginning...as he himself admitted..

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:...” (NASB)

He is the “Amen” and “the faithful and true Witness”.....”the beginning of the creation of God”.

All things came into existence “through” the Son, but from the Father by means of his powerful spirit.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And being before all things means he was not creating himself with all the rest of creation.

Do you understand what you are reading or are you blinded by a doctrine that didn’t exist when Jesus walked the earth?

Read that verse again but in context....

“15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.”

So the human Jesus was “the image of the invisible God”.....what does the image of an invisible person look like? In what way was Jesus the image of his Father? Obviously not physically, but spiritually, possessing his qualities, which he perfectly reflected in every way. That is what an image does....it is a reflection of a reality...but not the reality itself.

“16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.”

So nothing exists apart from the Son...nothing that he didn’t have a hand in creating.....but “all things have been created through Him and for Him”...

That word “through” is used there to indicate what you are ignoring.....if something is done “through” or by means of someone else, that is called agency. We all know what an agent is as people deal with them in every real estate transactions. Movie stars and pop singers have an agent though who all things are transacted.

Agency is one party acting on behalf of another.....the Son in this Scripture and in John 1:2-3 is acting as the agency for his God...his Creator and Father.

“ 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”

He existed before anything else was made.....he spent unknown eons of time alone with his Father before the creation of “the heavens and the earth”.
He brought all the angels to spirit life, individually created, each with their own unique personalities.

But humans were not created individually....they were blessed with procreative abilities....to reproduce their own kind, like the rest of God’s earthly creatures.

We don’t exist for nothing....we have a purpose here....the earth was made for us and we were made for life on the earth....there is a much bigger picture than “life and death”...”heaven or hell”....

Do you have a big picture ewq1938? Is it the picture that Christendom has painted....or the one the Bible speaks about? They are entirely different, but unless you know what the Bible teaches as opposed to what the divided church systems teach...you will never know.

 

[ewq1938]

Usually where the New Testament speaks about God, it just says 'ὁ θεὸς' (the God). It is strange in this verse that it qualifies it as "the god of this world." Why specify if God is the God of everything?

To add clarification. Many know that God's word is not going to call satan a god/God, especially not a God of the Aion. Scripture says satan is the ruler/prince of the kosmos which is the temporary sinful world we live in now.

I think... the translation of the word 'world' is confusing. The New Testament translates three Greek words as 'world:' κόσμος, γῆ, and αἰών. Cosmos refers the order of things in the universe. Ge refers to the physical dirt beneath our feet. But it's the third word, Aion, that is used in this verse. It usually refers to a period of time, and is sometimes called an 'age' or an 'era.'

I think the meaning of the verse would be clearer if it was translated like...

4:4 ...that God, in this era, has blinded the minds of the unbelieving...

Yes, the poor translation to "world" and not capping the G has adding confusion.

 

[ewq1938]

Wow!....you mean God created his firstborn son, so that he could have the pleasure of working along with his Father in the creation of “all things”?

No. the pre-incarnate Jesus was not created because he is God the Son.

You are correct...he could not have created himself. He didn’t have to....because he is the Son, he is not his Father. He is “begotten”, which means he needed a ‘begetter’. And because he is “before all things” he was “begotten” long before anything else existed.

See above.

Again, you are correct, the man Jesus did not exist before his human birth.
The son of God was “with” his Father in heaven “in the beginning” as it says in John 1:1-3.
What “beginning” is this? The Father did not have a beginning.
The Son is his “firstborn”. He did have a beginning...as he himself admitted..

The Son has no beginning. Only the human child born to Mary had a mortal beginning and ending but the one who incarnated is God and existed before Mary was even alive. He (Jesus) is the one who created all things because his father wanted it.

He existed before anything else was made.....he spent unknown eons of time alone with his Father before the creation of “the heavens and the earth”.
He brought all the angels to spirit life, individually created, each with their own unique personalities.

Trinitarians already understand this.

Do you have a big picture ewq1938?

This thread is already the evidence of that. Do you agree that the verse addressing the "God of the world/Aion" is speaking of God and not satan?

 

[David in NJ]

You quoted me the opposite of what I said. So, why are you being rude to me???

You could at least answered my question, and I'll add another one. Answer me without the immature attitude this time. Do you believe you are born again? If so, do you believe you still have a sin nature? If so, why? Here is an opportunity to learn something. Don't waste it.

immature response to a very mature answer given you = twice

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus is God the Son so when the bible says God said something, it could have been him or another of the Trinity.

AGREE

Now, what evidence do you have from scripture to support your claim???

If you find it in 'one direct sentence/verse' you have found the Answer

@Keiw = D you know the Answer???

 

[David in NJ]

Yes and sincve it is God blinding ppl in 2Co 3:14 , it is still God doing the blinding of ppl 8 verses later when God is called the God of the Aion, a title that does not belong to satan.



2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2Co 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You combined two distinct passages as if they are speaking of the same.

God is only "blinding" TWO groups

Satan, is blinding the nations - and as such - he is ruler/god of this age = Job chs 1 & 2, Matthew 4:1-11 , 1 John 5:19 , Revelation

"who are taken captive(deception) by the devil/satan to do his will" = 2 Timothy 2:26

 

[ewq1938]

You combined two distinct passages as if they are speaking of the same.

God is only "blinding" TWO groups

And Paul is speaking about Him in those 9 verses. Not once does Paul bring up satan in those verses. It's all about God blinding people.