One Baptism. - What is it?

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Wick Stick

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I'm pretty sure what 'I think' and posted (#20), trumps your 'opinion' here. That's my opinion. You asked me to point you 'back' to any opinion I had on this thread. Did you read post #20?
I read it. I even liked it. I re-read it this morning when Steven bumped the thread, and this stuck out to me.

Why would we not think that 'baptisms' refers to many people being baptized? Why would we prefer a reading that implies multiple kinds of baptism? Those questions aren't answered in your post #20 that I can see.

At any rate, Hebrews 6 isn't about baptism. It's about backsliding. Baptisms get mentioned as part of a list of basic teachings, which Paul doesn't elaborate on.
 

St. SteVen

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I read it. I even liked it. I re-read it this morning when Steven bumped the thread, and this stuck out to me.

Why would we not think that 'baptisms' refers to many people being baptized? Why would we prefer a reading that implies multiple kinds of baptism? Those questions aren't answered in your post #20 that I can see.

At any rate, Hebrews 6 isn't about baptism. It's about backsliding. Baptisms get mentioned as part of a list of basic teachings, which Paul doesn't elaborate on.
I think it refers to different kinds of baptisms.
Have you seen this?

1 Corinthians 15:29 NIV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
 

Wick Stick

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Even then, seems to be the question, "As opposed to what?"
- One Lord, opposed to all others.
- One faith, opposed to all others.
- One baptism, opposed to all others. WHAT OTHERS?
I'll give you my understanding, but most people don't seem to think like me...

I view water baptism as being an adoption ceremony - a covenant of water.

The original covenant of water happens when we are born. We all are born "through water" when mom's water breaks, and a baby is born shortly after.

Being submerged is a figure of death. By dying, a person's old covenants are terminated, including that original covenant of water. The baptizee is cut off from their original parents. Compare Luke 14:26

Emerging from the water is a figure of new birth. Being born again creates a new covenant of water. The baptizee is attached to a new parent. That new parent is God (in the name of the Father, etc).
- One baptism, opposed to all others. WHAT OTHERS?
It's more a question of WHO than WHAT. If baptism works as an adoption, as I've suggested, then a man could be adopted to just about anyone, provided that both the adoptor and adoptee are willing.

The ONE baptism, makes you a child of God.

Every other baptism, makes you someone else's kid. The devil is also a willing parent...
 

Wick Stick

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Have you seen this?

1 Corinthians 15:29 NIV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
Seen what?

1770310429663.png
 

Hillsage

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If that's what you mean, God said in the last days I will pour out my spirit on all flesh.
I explained in post #30 about your comment

#30 "Getting back to that "all flesh" verse you quote from Acts 2:14 above; It really didn't indicate that 'that baptism' was 'their choice' on the day of Pentecost. The whole body of Christ received that baptism in a sovereign move of God. And that was the same pattern used at the house of the Gentile Roman Cornelius, when Peter preached the gospel, for the first time, to Gentiles, and they also spoke in tongues.

I'd like to share a teaching one time years ago, which said that the Greek words "pas sarx" were translated as "all flesh". Then he said those 2 words could have, just as correctly, been translated as "whole body". And on the day of Pentecost it was the "whole body" of believers, that the supernatural power from the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them, and supernatural tongues was spoken out of them."
"If a person does not want to be baptized by water, it means he is not obedient, then how can he be baptized by the Holy Spirit."
Like I shared earlier. It happened on the day of Pentecost and it happened at the house of Cornelius and it happened to me. We all received the baptism from/of the Holy Spirit of God, before being water baptized which is a baptism that accomplishes what?
1PE 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


If you think this is a contradiction in terms.
Not sure I understand this comment.
I always feel that as a follower of God, why do we always take ourself to compare with unbelievers? As we boast how good we are?

God wishes all men to be saved, then we should wish all men to be saved.
KJV 1TI 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God doesn't "wish" or "desire" in that verse in 1Tim 2:4. Those are simply bad bible interpretations of the Gr. word 2309 THELO explained below. He "wills" or determines salvation of all. That's why I said earlier I believe in "predestination" from God concerning when someone gets "called" "drawn" or "chosen" by God to even hear the gospel for the first time. He gives you the "ears to hear" His will

2309 thelo: to determine (as an act option from subj impulse; whereas 1014 prop denotes rather a passive acquiescence in obj considerations), ie choose or prefer (lit or fig); by impl to wish, ie be inclined to (sometimes adv gladly); impers. for the fut tense, to be about to; by Heb. to delight in
No matter what whether a man believes in Christ,only God can make a man believes in him.

Cuz God said no one seek him.
Agreed as shown above'

Sorry this post is so late @soberxp . I was on too many threads, and I just found this thread again. I am also done with those others which I can't keep up with either. As to your post above;

I agree they are in disobedience. But show me any body here who isn't in disobedience somewhere in their life. If you commit 1 sin after being born-again, you are in disobedience.
 

soberxp

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KJV 1TI 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God doesn't "wish" or "desire" in that verse in 1Tim 2:4. Those are simply bad bible interpretations of the Gr. word 2309 THELO explained below. He "wills" or determines salvation of all. That's why I said earlier I believe in "predestination" from God concerning when someone gets "called" "drawn" or "chosen" by God to even hear the gospel for the first time. He gives you the "ears to hear" His will
The chosen or the elect shows God could let anyone to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

So God will have all men to be saved.and pour out his spirit on all flesh.not the whole body of Christ.
 

St. SteVen

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I'll give you my understanding, but most people don't seem to think like me...

I view water baptism as being an adoption ceremony - a covenant of water.

The original covenant of water happens when we are born. We all are born "through water" when mom's water breaks, and a baby is born shortly after.

Being submerged is a figure of death. By dying, a person's old covenants are terminated, including that original covenant of water. The baptizee is cut off from their original parents. Compare Luke 14:26

Emerging from the water is a figure of new birth. Being born again creates a new covenant of water. The baptizee is attached to a new parent. That new parent is God (in the name of the Father, etc).

It's more a question of WHO than WHAT. If baptism works as an adoption, as I've suggested, then a man could be adopted to just about anyone, provided that both the adoptor and adoptee are willing.

The ONE baptism, makes you a child of God.

Every other baptism, makes you someone else's kid. The devil is also a willing parent...
Good post.
Where does the Baptism with the Holy Spirit fit?

Acts 1:5 NIV
For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”
 

St. SteVen

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Seen what?
Seen this scripture.
It refers to baptisms for the dead. ???

1 Corinthians 15:29 NIV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
 

Wick Stick

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Good post.
Where does the Baptism with the Holy Spirit fit?
In John 3 where I quoted earlier, it's part and parcel of the one baptism.
Acts 1:5 NIV
For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”
It doesn't seem to be part and parcel in this verse, though, does it?

Curious. John is earlier than Acts, isn't it?
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Acts 1:5 NIV
For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”
It doesn't seem to be part and parcel in this verse, though, does it?
Yes.
The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is in reference to the outpourings of the Holy Spirit beginning at Pentecost.
 
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Wick Stick

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The writing date for the Acts of the Apostles (70-90AD) is earlier than the Gospel of John. (90-100AD)
Yes, but the events in John 3 are earlier than those in Acts. Why is Jesus talking about baptism with the spirit in the present tense if that didn't start til after His death?
 

Wick Stick

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Seen this scripture.
It refers to baptisms for the dead. ???

1 Corinthians 15:29 NIV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
Nope, can't see it. I think that it might be one of those verses that becomes invisible when you're ordained. :sweatsmile:
 

Hillsage

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It can't be right if it requires ten paragraphs to explain.
And it certainly isn't clear in the scripture in question.
A lot of Kingdom "treasure" gets missed with that very attitude.

I just googled how long the church has fought over this 'one baptism' doctrine.. Answer was 2,000 years. And you want me to settle that argument in what? One paragraph!!!

PRO 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
I simply agree with this verse. :Broadly:
 

Hillsage

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Posting again with a slightly revised and shortened post #20.

According to Heb 6:1,2 there are multiple “baptisms”vs 2 pertaining to our faith (and our “going on to perfection vs 1). So what “one baptism” might scripture be speaking of, as we read Eph. 4:5?


LUK 12:50 But I (Jesus) have... a baptism ONEto be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! hasn't happened yet in chapter 12. But he already had his water baptism 1 and Holy Spirit baptism 2 with John.

The baptism spoken of here is the
baptism into deathwhich Jesus still had laying ahead of Him, "to be accomplished" on the cross.

THIS POINT ABOVE IS BACKED BY THIS SCRIPTURE BELOW.

ROM 6:3-5 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by HIS baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a symbolic death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

This verse above speaks of the “one baptism” in Luke 12:50 which Jesus still had not received. And scripture says we identify with Jesus in this baptism of death when we participate in ‘one’ of those ‘foundational baptisms in Hebrews 6. Baptisms, which scripture says, we should experience in laying down the very foundation of our faith’ before we can even go on to “perfection/maturity”. Ephesians is the only baptism necessary for us to ALL believe in concerning the “one hope” of “your call” in Christ. It is the only baptism (“one baptism”) we must cling to, which will determine whether we maintain “the unity of the Spirit” or not. In the context, ‘the unity of the Spirit is what Eph 4:3 is talking about. It is not referencing the ‘unity of the Church’ based upon 'a conformity of theology'. That's an application of understanding' that even Paul refutes.

I have added a strike through because the translators capitalized spirit when they never should have. Because this verse is talking about the spirit in Christ. The AV of 1611 had "s" lower case. in Eph 4:3, 4.
Even the JW's got both lower case s right in their "The Kingdom Interlinear translation of the Greek Scriptures".
 
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Hillsage

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The chosen or the elect shows God could let anyone to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

So God will have all men to be saved.and pour out his spirit on all flesh.not the whole body of Christ.
I'm not talking, or believing , any of these verses suggest GOD COULD allow anyone born again salvation, These verses confirm he DECIDES, He DETERMINES who will get saved.

IOW you aren't refuting the definition of the Greek word which is falsely translated as "wishes" or "desires". And you aren't proving with scripture that those coming to Jesus must be "called" "chosen" "drawn" by the Father

In context of vs 12 this verse is talking about being BORN AGAIN

JOH 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man,
but (of the will) of God.

JOH 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me DRAWS him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

JOH 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

JOH 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life
to as many as thou hast given him.


ACT 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath GOD also to the
Gentiles GRANTED REPENTANCE unto life.


ACT 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were
ORDAINED to eternal life believed.


ROM 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. 30* And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified;
 

soberxp

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I'm not talking, or believing , any of these verses suggest GOD COULD allow anyone born again salvation, These verses confirm he DECIDES, He DETERMINES who will get saved.

IOW you aren't refuting the definition of the Greek word which is falsely translated as "wishes" or "desires". And you aren't proving with scripture that those coming to Jesus must be "called" "chosen" "drawn" by the Father

In context of vs 12 this verse is talking about being BORN AGAIN

JOH 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man,
but (of the will) of God.

JOH 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me DRAWS him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

JOH 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

JOH 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life
to as many as thou hast given him.


ACT 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath GOD also to the
Gentiles GRANTED REPENTANCE unto life.


ACT 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were
ORDAINED to eternal life believed.


ROM 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. 30* And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified;
What's the difference between "God could let anyone to come unto the knowledge of the truth" and "who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but (of the will) of God."?
 

St. SteVen

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Yes, but the events in John 3 are earlier than those in Acts. Why is Jesus talking about baptism with the spirit in the present tense if that didn't start til after His death?
It was in the time period of the 40 days after his resurrection and just prior to His ascension that He told them this.
 

St. SteVen

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Nope, can't see it. I think that it might be one of those verses that becomes invisible when you're ordained. :sweatsmile:
Yes! - LOL
I've never heard anyone preach on it.
In fact, it was pointed out to me by an LDS Elder.
Which seems to explain their genealogical libraries.
 

St. SteVen

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LUK 12:50 But I (Jesus) have... a baptism ONEto be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! hasn't happened yet in chapter 12. But he already had his water baptism 1 and Holy Spirit baptism 2 with John.

The baptism spoken of here is the
baptism into deathwhich Jesus still had laying ahead of Him, "to be accomplished" on the cross.
Okay, but that is not OUR baptism nor does it seem to be the ONE baptism FOR US.
It is ONLY for Him. Why would that be the ONE baptism? Not one we can attain to.