Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation

[shepherdsword]

Won't that be too late to do anything about it? (on the day of judgement)
Then what?

--- PARODY ---

OSAS person: Are you saved?
NOSAS person: What do you mean?
OSAS person: Do you have salvation in Jesus Christ?
NOSAS person: No one does.
OSAS person: Seriously?
NOSAS person: Yes. You have to persevere to the end.
OSAS person: So, you have to wait and see?
NOSAS person: I suppose so.
OSAS person: What if you don't make it?
NOSAS person: I guess I'm toast.
OSAS person: That's tragic!

What NOSAS person denies Salvation in Jesus Christ? Sounds like you are just regurgitating your typical lying banter.

 

[St. SteVen]

What NOSAS person denies Salvation in Jesus Christ? Sounds like you are just regurgitating your typical lying banter.

The NOSAS person has no assurance of salvation.
Like you said...

Many think that they are saved. ... We will all know the truth on this day:

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

 

[shepherdsword]

The NOSAS person has no assurance of salvation.
Like you said...

I didn't say that I didn't have assurance. I said my assurance is based on the scriptures.

I have the assurance that is based on the scriptures. However, like I said, many false religions have total assurance. No one that is deceived knows it.

What is your based on?
A Mormon has assurance of salvation...does that mean they really have it?

 

[Button]

Most think we are being saved by the same God that cursed us.
This isn't true. Immanuel is savior alone.

 

[St. SteVen]

What is your based on?
A Mormon has assurance of salvation...does that mean they really have it?

This is a good question.
It came up on another topic. Many people of various religions have assurance of salvation.
So how do we know for sure? (which I suppose, is what you have been saying all along here)
But now you seem to have flip-flopped on the issue.

 

[shepherdsword]

This is a good question.
It came up on another topic. Many people of various religions have assurance of salvation.
So how do we know for sure? (which I suppose, is what you have been saying all along here)

We will know for sure on the day of judgement...won't we?

But now you seem to have flip-flopped on the issue.

I think we can all have assurance of salvation BUT...does that make it true? I think that there is a subtle element of pride in assuming our election and salvation. Perhaps it is more humble to admit that we could be wrong was well.

 

[KUWN]

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation​

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty?

All the reams of Apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty.

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

NET Bible (New English Translation)
Luke 1:
1 Now many have undertaken to compile an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 like the accounts passed on to us by those who were eyewitnesses and servants of the word from the beginning. 3 So it seemed good to me as well, because I have followed all things carefully from the beginning, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know for certain the things you were taught.

Acts 2:36
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.”

Remember, According to Rom 1
17 For the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, “The righteous by faith will live.”

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness, 19 because what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles.

=====================

Here is a list of attributes of God and man, where unbelievers are CERTAIN of God's existence, some of His attributes and character, and what He expects of unbelievers is made plain to them, note this phrase: "they knew God." Some people (mostly Reformed people) believe that an unbeliever, who is spiritually dead, has no awareness of God. Rom 1 should be all that is needed to counter the Reformed theologians.

One last passage that I find interesting is Acts 17
6 From one man He made every nation of the human race to inhabit the entire earth, determining their set times and the fixed limits of the places where they would live, 27 so that they would seek after God and perhaps grope around for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Most of you have probably read where there is Rom 3:
11 there is no one who understands,
there is no one who seeks God.

Is this a blatant corruption of the text, or can you reconcile these two passages?

 

[St. SteVen]

We will know for sure on the day of judgement...won't we?

I think we can all have assurance of salvation BUT...does that make it true? I think that there is a subtle element of pride in assuming our election and salvation. Perhaps it is more humble to admit that we could be wrong was well.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I refuse to live that way. (with personal uncertainty)

 

[KUWN]

NET Bible (New English Translation)
Luke 1:
1 Now many have undertaken to compile an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 like the accounts passed on to us by those who were eyewitnesses and servants of the word from the beginning. 3 So it seemed good to me as well, because I have followed all things carefully from the beginning, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know for certain the things you were taught.

Acts 2:36
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.”

Remember, According to Rom 1
17 For the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, “The righteous by faith will live.”

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness, 19 because what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles.

=====================

Here is a list of attributes of God and man, where unbelievers are CERTAIN of God's existence, some of His attributes and character, and what He expects of unbelievers is made plain to them, note this phrase: "they knew God." Some people (mostly Reformed people) believe that an unbeliever, who is spiritually dead, has no awareness of God. Rom 1 should be all that is needed to counter the Reformed theologians.

One last passage that I find interesting is Acts 17
6 From one man He made every nation of the human race to inhabit the entire earth, determining their set times and the fixed limits of the places where they would live, 27 so that they would seek after God and perhaps grope around for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Most of you have probably read where there is Rom 3:
11 there is no one who understands,
there is no one who seeks God.

Is this a blatant corruption of the text, or can you reconcile these two passages?

The word for 'seek' in Rom 3.11 is a different word than the one used in Acts 17. They are close, but one has a preposition with it, the other does not. I have not done any serious study of this apparent contradiction. Sorry

 

[KUWN]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I refuse to live that way. (with personal uncertainty)

I seek after Truth, not certainty

 

[St. SteVen]

I seek after Truth, not certainty

Good thing.
There's no certainty in "Truth".
Who decides what truth is?

How can you find the truth when biblically supported views contradict?​

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?​

Is Truth Relevant? True and False are opinions. - True or False?​

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Many think that they are saved. In both Christianity and other religions. Many say "I know that I know that I know" and that's all well and good. Hopefully that is true. However, the only time we will be absolutely certain is on the day of judgement. Until then we can be deceived. Muslims believe they are "saved". Mormons have the "burning in the bosom" assurance. They are just as confident as we are. We will all know the truth on this day:

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

@shepherdsword, the difference is the basis of the assurance of adherents of other religions. Others rely on being "good people," whereas our assurance as Christians is the finished work--suffering, death, resurrection--of Jesus Christ, not our own good works.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Good thing.
There's no certainty in "Truth".
Who decides what truth is?

How can you find the truth when biblically supported views contradict?​

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?​

Is Truth Relevant? True and False are opinions. - True or False?​

@St. SteVen, there is certainty in the truths of the Bible. When I became a Christian at the age of 16, God convinced me that Jesus' resurrection is a historical event because of the eyewitnesses' solid testimonies that they saw Jesus alive after they knew that he had died. Those people were willing to suffer and die holding onto their testimonies. You can't get better historical eyewitnesses than they were. And the great God who could raise Jesus permanently from the dead could certainly do all the other amazing things he did in the Bible's history. Therefore, the teachings and history of the Bible have real historical basis and can be trusted as "THE TRUTH."

 

[amigo de christo]

Most think we are being saved by the same God that cursed us.
This isn't true. Immanuel is savior alone.

you surely might wanna explain this one .
JESUS didnt come to save us FROM GOD
But rather to save us . The created could not save itself
from the very death sentence and curse that the created had b rought upon themselves in the first place .
IT WOULD TAKE GOD to save HIS creation .
And thus
In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD
and the word was God .
JESUS didnt come to save us FROM GOD
HE came to simply SAVE us .
And that all who DO BELIEVE in HIM shall be sav ed .
but , and this is one big ol BUTT , excuse the double t , but i had to make a point .
SO , b ut Unto he or she who believ es not , DAMANTION awaits .
Seeing JESUS himself said that , BANK ON IT .
EVER word of CHRIST is TRUTH .
SO its just as T RUE that those who come to HIM will have eternal life
WELL its just as true that all who followed a harlots ecumeincal love that denied folks had to beleive on HIM
GONNA DAMN every last one who b elieved it and had any part in it .
SO lets get far far away from anything ecumeincal and fast . Do be encouraged my friend

 

[Angelina]

Most think we are being saved by the same God that cursed us.
This isn't true. Immanuel is savior alone.

You sound like a Gnostic believer. Is that what you are @Button?

 

[Button]

You sound like a Gnostic believer. Is that what you are @Button?

No.

 

[Angelina]

Then please explain your meaning?

 

[Button]

Then please explain your meaning?

It comes from discernment. Reading the Old Testament and the New.

 

[Angelina]

Does discernment from the Old and New Testament tell you that there were two Gods? The Old Testament God and the God of today's believers?

 

[St. SteVen]

Does discernment from the Old and New Testament tell you that there were two Gods? The Old Testament God and the God of today's believers?

I have heard a theory about "Same God, two different views."
Not sure if that is considered gnostic.