Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[rwb]

This refers to physical darkness that is explicitly related to the night time in contrast to the physical light that is explicitly related to the day time. You have been shown this and have refused to accept the correction of your misinterpretation of this verse.

Like I've told WPM I won't be moved by your opinions unless you can prove what you allege from the Word of God.

Why do you act as if every reference to darkness in scripture is metaphorical?

I don't! This is your way of twisting or isolating what I've said to make it appear that I believe this! I understand the difference between darkness after God divided darkness from the light and called the darkness night and the light day. However, according to what is written the earth was without form and darkness (that was not yet called night) was upon the face of the deep until God spoke light into the darkness. After that division of darkness and light then we learn the light God calls day and the darkness He calls night day one. As I already said I believe this darkness in the beginning before God called it night and the light day, metaphorically represents death/evil. That's what was before God spoke light into the darkness. If you don't understand how darkness throughout the Bible is symbolic of evil and death then there is nothing more to be said.

Exodus 10:21 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, darkness which may even be felt.” 22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days. 23 They did not see one another; nor did anyone rise from his place for three days. But all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

Not only does this darkness over the land of Egypt represent literal physical darkness, but it is also symbolic of the spiritual darkness that covered the land, which is why God's wrath was poured out upon Egypt, interestingly for THREE DAYS.

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Only a doctrinally immature person would not understand this darkness for THREE HOURS was not only literal, but also spiritually symbolic for the spiritual darkness that caused Christ to be crucified.

Again, the darkness God created is contrasted with the physical light that God created. You are badly misinterpreting Genesis 1. Very badly.

You accuse me of very badly interpreting Gen 1 when you completely ignore verses 1-2 where God describes what existed before He said "Let there by light"?

 

[rwb]

You should be embarrassed for saying nonsense like this. Never has WPM indicated whatsoever that he "denies real angels of God". Ridiculous comment!

The only thing that is truly ridiculous, and even embarrassing is the belief that God created Satan an angel of God who became wicked/evil Satan! Ridiculous indeed!

 

[WPM]

I'm not interested in your opinions! If you want me to take you seriously, and you believe I've imputed something unbiblical into the narrative, prove what you allege through the Word of God.

I just did!

 

[WPM]

Like I've told WPM I won't be moved by your opinions unless you can prove what you allege from the Word of God.


I don't! This is your way of twisting or isolating what I've said to make it appear that I believe this! I understand the difference between darkness after God divided darkness from the light and called the darkness night and the light day. However, according to what is written the earth was without form and darkness (that was not yet called night) was upon the face of the deep until God spoke light into the darkness. After that division of darkness and light then we learn the light God calls day and the darkness He calls night day one. As I already said I believe this darkness in the beginning before God called it night and the light day, metaphorically represents death/evil. That's what was before God spoke light into the darkness. If you don't understand how darkness throughout the Bible is symbolic of evil and death then there is nothing more to be said.


Not only does this darkness over the land of Egypt represent literal physical darkness, but it is also symbolic of the spiritual darkness that covered the land, which is why God's wrath was poured out upon Egypt, interestingly for THREE DAYS.



Only a doctrinally immature person would not understand this darkness for THREE HOURS was not only literal, but also spiritually symbolic for the spiritual darkness that caused Christ to be crucified.



You accuse me of very badly interpreting Gen 1 when you completely ignore verses 1-2 where God describes what existed before He said "Let there by light"?

Hello! It is talking about natural darkness and natural light. Check the context. He is speaking about the natural order, He then turns to the spiritual. The natural came 1st. That is a biblical pattern.

 

[WPM]

The only thing that is truly ridiculous, and even embarrassing is the belief that God created Satan an angel of God who became wicked/evil Satan! Ridiculous indeed!

According to how TS has taught you. What solid respected man of God in history taught this? Hello! You 2 are on your own along with the heretics. Repent!

 

[rwb]

Hello! It is talking about natural darkness and natural light. Check the context. He is speaking about the natural order, He then turns to the spiritual. The natural came 1st. That is a biblical pattern.

HELLO YOURSELF! God is describing what existed prior to Him speaking light into the darkness! The darkness was there before God spoke and divided the darkness from the light. The natural light that divided the day from the night to give natural light upon the earth was NOT created until the fourth day. That's when God made two great lights, the greater one, the sun to rule the day and the lesser light the moon to rule the night. He created the stars also on day four.

Genesis 1:14-19 (KJV) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The darkness that existed before God created the sun and moon is not NATURAL darkness and light, it is metaphorically speaking of spiritual darkness/death. The light God spoke into the darkness came BEFORE natural light of the sun, moon, and stars that God created on the fourth day.

 

[rwb]

I just did!

If you're referring to in the beginning, feel free to take it and put it where there is no light!

 

[rwb]

According to how TS has taught you. What solid respected man of God in history taught this? Hello! You 2 are on your own along with the heretics. Repent!

I don't need TS or anyone else to teach me that Satan was NOT created an angel of God who became Satan! I'm not so biblically dumb that I do not understand for myself how believing Satan to be a fallen angel of God forces contradiction and confusion into the Word of God. And I have sufficient biblical knowledge to know there can be NO contradiction in the Word of God. Apparently, you have not enough biblical knowledge to realize this TRUTH, so you continue to try to deceive others by repeating the same lie that Satan is a fallen angel again and again!

 

[WPM]

HELLO YOURSELF! God is describing what existed prior to Him speaking light into the darkness! The darkness was there before God spoke and divided the darkness from the light. The natural light that divided the day from the night to give natural light upon the earth was NOT created until the fourth day. That's when God made two great lights, the greater one, the sun to rule the day and the lesser light the moon to rule the night. He created the stars also on day four.

Genesis 1:14-19 (KJV) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The darkness that existed before God created the sun and moon is not NATURAL darkness and light, it is metaphorically speaking of spiritual darkness/death. The light God spoke into the darkness came BEFORE natural light of the sun, moon, and stars that God created on the fourth day.

More nonsense!

 

[WPM]

I don't need TS or anyone else to teach me that Satan was NOT created an angel of God who became Satan! I'm not so biblically dumb that I do not understand for myself how believing Satan to be a fallen angel of God forces contradiction and confusion into the Word of God. And I have sufficient biblical knowledge to know there can be NO contradiction in the Word of God. Apparently, you have not enough biblical knowledge to realize this TRUTH, so you continue to try to deceive others by repeating the same lie that Satan is a fallen angel again and again!

What solid respected man of God in history taught this?

 

[rwb]

More nonsense!

Your intellectual prowess overwhelms! But as usual you write nothing to refute my reply. You are the one who needs to repent!

 

[rwb]

What solid respected man of God in history taught this?

This is your problem! Study the Bible and stop relying on so-called respected men to teach you! I'm beginning to understand why you constantly try to belittle me by suggesting I have been taught Satan is not a fallen angel of God from TS! You are guilty of accusing others for things you are guilty of.

 

[WPM]

Your intellectual prowess overwhelms! But as usual you write nothing to refute my reply. You are the one who needs to repent!

All you have is private opinions that I have never heard or read any other Christian espouse. That is because you have been misled.

We have watched it happen.

So sad!

 

[WPM]

This is your problem! Study the Bible and stop relying on so-called respected men to teach you! I'm beginning to understand why you constantly try to belittle me by suggesting I have been taught Satan is not a fallen angel of God from TS! You are guilty of accusing others for things you are guilty of.

You have invented your own heretical theology. TS has deceived you.

You have no answer to the Op. That is why you duck around it.

Typical Pretrib tactics when they have no Scripture.

 

[rwb]

All you have is private opinions that I have never heard or read any other Christian espouse. That is because you have been misled.

We have watched it happen.

So sad!

You have invented your own heretical theology. TS has deceived you.

You have no answer to the Op. That is why you duck around it.

Typical Pretrib tactics when they have no Scripture.

You again show your true colors! Nothing but derogatory belittling, because you cannot argue against the TRUTH!

 

[WPM]

You again show your true colors! Nothing but derogatory belittling, because you cannot argue against the TRUTH!

Yea right Mr Avoidance!!! It is a waste of time engaging with you. No scriptural support. No historic support amongst solid Bible commentators, just you and your mentor promoting this nonsense, along with the heretics. Telling!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is you & WPM reading into or even twisting/mischaracterizing what TS has said ignoring ALL that he has said.

Absolutely false! He has confirmed that he does not believe in spirit beings called angels and demons/devils several times. He says that they are not separate spirit beings from human beings, but rather are references to the spirits of human beings. That is NOT twisting what he said at all. Don't blame us for your horrible reading comprehension skills.

I don't read his post as him denying the existence of spirits of God and spirits of Satan.

How about you ask him if he believes in the existence of spirits of God and of Satan who are not the spirits of human beings? @TribulationSigns can you clarify this for rwb so that he can see what you actually believe?

What he says, and I agree is that man spiritually becomes the children of the spirit that indwells them. When we are indwelt with the Spirit of Christ we are children/sons of God. When we are indwelt with the spirit of evil we are children/sons of the evil one.

But, he does not acknowledge the existence of the evil one, Satan, as a separate spirit being from human beings. He has made the clear many times. How you miss that is beyond me.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not interested in your opinions! If you want me to take you seriously, and you believe I've imputed something unbiblical into the narrative, prove what you allege through the Word of God.

Yes, you would rather make ridiculous accusations about WPM like saying that he doesn't believe in real angels of God. No, that describes your buddy TribulationSigns. He is the one who does not believe in real angels of God. He says the references to angels are references to human messengers and not spirit beings who serve God. He has indicated that many times and you still won't even acknowledge what he believes.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

A fallen man! Symbolizing fallen humanity!

You never can seem to make up your mind about things. Do you think Ezekiel 28 describes a fallen man or that it symbolizes fallen humanity? Make up your mind. If it refers to a fallen man then explain how a fallen man could possibly be described as the anointed cherub who protects the holy mountain of God and was created perfect in his ways. If it symbolically describes fallen humanity, then explain how fallen humanity could be described as the anointed cherub who protects the holy mountain of God and was created perfect in his ways.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not interested in your opinions! If you want me to take you seriously, and you believe I've imputed something unbiblical into the narrative, prove what you allege through the Word of God.

He has been doing that all along and you ignore what he and I have been showing you from the Word of God. The Word of God teaches that everything God created was very good (Genesis 1:31). That's a fact. And you deny this fact by claiming that Satan and his demons/devils were created very bad.