IF YOU ONLY FOLLOW JESUS THEN YOU MUST KEEP THE LAW

[Soyeong]

Sure,

Do ecumenical creeds, Christian Church since early times and the New Testament take the position that Jesus was correct in Matthew 4:4 that Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God? If so, then why do you think that Jesus should be interpreted as speaking against living by every word that comes from the mouth of God? If Jesus had done as you suggest, then he would have been sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 and disqualified himself as being our Savior.

for example when He left go the woman caught in adultery who would have to be stoned to death according to the Law of Moses

The Law of Moses requires both the man and the woman accused of adultery be brought before a judge in order to do a thorough investigation, that the witnesses are to those the first stone, and that no one is to be put to death without at least two or three witnesses, so if Jesus had stoned her, then he would have sinned in violation of the Law of Mose.

or when He taught to not apply the "an eye for an eye" from the Law of Moses

In Matthew 4, Jesus consistently preceded a quote from what was written by saying "it is written...", but in Matthew 5, he preceded a quote from what the people had heard being said by saying "you have heard that it was said...", so his emphasis on the different from of communication is important. Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by making changes to what was written, but rather he was fulfilling the law by correcting what people had herd being said and by teaching how to correctly obey the Law of Moses as it was originally intended.

or when He cancelled the "hate your enemy" from the Law of Moses, just like that.

The Law of Moses does not instruct to hate our enemies, but rather loving our enemies is in accordance with verses like Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, and Proverbs 25:21-22.

Or when He cleaned all food and basically all external causes of uncleanness from the Law of Moses

Jesus was speaking in regard to a tradition of the elders about whether we are permitted to eat bread with unwashed hands, which has nothing to do with which animals we permitted to eat.

or when He cancelled the rules for divorce from the Law of Moses...

What he taught about divorce was in accordance with the Law of Moses.

Your teachings are quite absurd. You should join a church and listen to them instead of inventing things.

It is not absurd to believe that Jesus was correct in Matthew 4:4, but rather what is absurd is interpreting Jesus in contradicting himself the Father. The position that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has commanded is fundamentally basic to Christianity.

 

[Soyeong]

Then why do you reject it when it says we are no longer under the law?

Being under God's Word made flesh does not remove our obligation to obey God's Word.

No, you are misreading the passage. It states that the righteousness of faith is DIFFERENT than the righteousness of the law.. also...you missed verse four that clearly states:

In Romans 3:21-22, the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law of and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe, so there are not two different types of righteousness. For example, it is righteous to be a doer of charity through faith.

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be graciously to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life.

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works instead of pursuing it as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Law of God is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are committing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for salvation, so nothing in this passage has anything to do with ending the Law of God, but just the opposite. It doesn't even make sense to think that God's Word flesh ended God's Word.

The law was a yoke that the Jews could not bear:

That Is denying what Paul said is the word of faith that we proclaim and is in direct disagreement with God's Word. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying the Law of God, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved the Law of God and delighted in obeying it, so you are also expressing a view that is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture.

Gal 4:21-5:1
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

If God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to His law, then it would be for bondage that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against. It should not even make sense to you to interpret a servant of God as speaking against obeying what He has commanded. In Psalms 119:142, the Law of God is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Law of God that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free. Moreover, the Law of God came through the line of the free woman, not the line of the slave woman.

To obey the law of the spirit...not the letter of the law

2 Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Again, I quoted many verses that say that the New Covenant involves following the Law of God, that the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it, and that obedience to it brings life, so 2 Corinthians 3:6 should be interpreted in a way that is in accordance with the rest of the Bible rather than a way that overturns the rest of the Bible.

 

[Brakelite]

Do ecumenical creeds, Christian Church since early times and the New Testament take the position that Jesus was correct in Matthew 4:4 that Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God? If so, then why do you think that Jesus should be interpreted as speaking against living by every word that comes from the mouth of God? If Jesus had done as you suggest, then he would have been sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 and disqualified himself as being our Savior.


The Law of Moses requires both the man and the woman accused of adultery be brought before a judge in order to do a thorough investigation, that the witnesses are to those the first stone, and that no one is to be put to death without at least two or three witnesses, so if Jesus had stoned her, then he would have sinned in violation of the Law of Mose.


In Matthew 4, Jesus consistently preceded a quote from what was written by saying "it is written...", but in Matthew 5, he preceded a quote from what the people had heard being said by saying "you have heard that it was said...", so his emphasis on the different from of communication is important. Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by making changes to what was written, but rather he was fulfilling the law by correcting what people had herd being said and by teaching how to correctly obey the Law of Moses as it was originally intended.


The Law of Moses does not instruct to hate our enemies, but rather loving our enemies is in accordance with verses like Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, and Proverbs 25:21-22.


Jesus was speaking in regard to a tradition of the elders about whether we are permitted to eat bread with unwashed hands, which has nothing to do with which animals we permitted to eat.


What he taught about divorce was in accordance with the Law of Moses.


It is not absurd to believe that Jesus was correct in Matthew 4:4, but rather what is absurd is interpreting Jesus in contradicting himself the Father. The position that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has commanded is fundamentally basic to Christianity.

I was about to respond in similar fashion, but you've said everything that needed to be said. Excellent response.

 

[Brakelite]

I hear/read on Christian forums far too frequently, that we cannot overcome sin. That we will sin every day. Till we die.
If we live in the age of grace, and we do, then grace reigns. This being the case, then it is easier to do right than it is to do wrong. When sin reigned, it reigned against grace. Until the power of sin was broken, then grace reigned.

The power of sin was broken at Calvary. But do we have the faith to believe that? Do we have the faith to believe we can overcome sin? Surely it is literally true that when grace reigns it is as easy to do right as it is easy to do wrong when under the reign of sin. It can never be repeated too often that under the reign of grace it is just as easy to do right as under the reign of sin it is easy to do wrong. This must be so, for if there is not more power in grace than there is in sin, then there can be no salvation from sin. And that is precisely what Jesus came to accomplish, to save us from our sin.

Do we believe that? That is the question we must each answer for ourselves. Do we truly have faith that God can accomplish this for us? Can He? Will He? Is this what we want? We must each decide this for ourselves.

Are you beginning to get the picture? The gospel isn't about the law, it's about relationship. As several here have said, we have the Spirit of Christ abiding within, which leads us into all truth. Not just about God, about His law, but about us..
It isn't just that we believe in God. As James says, the devils believe in God. Big deal.
it's what we believe that matters. It's about whether we believe Jesus can accomplish what He came to do, in and through us. It's all by faith. Trusting in God to finish the work He's begun.

No ditch on the left of easy grace where we can continue in sin and still be saved... no ditch on the right where our self help, self discipline, hard work, determination, new years resolutions, and obedience to the law in our own strength, can make us holy and righteous. Holiness, righteousness, are gifts. We just need to believe God wants us to have them. And we must want them enough to plead for them. This is true repentance. Hating what we are, and yearning for better. "Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. " Matthew 5:6.

And the claim i read above that what the holy Spirit does in us through faith is different from the law of God, (the Term Commandments) is incorrect.

“15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. ”
Romans 5:15-21 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

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“3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. ”
Romans 8:3-10 KJV

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“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. ”
Romans 3:31 KJV

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[Brakelite]

Gal 3:24-26
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

You think Christ teaches different from the schoolmaster, the very law Christ Himself established and is a transcript of God's character?
Christ is now working among His people to create in them a mindset that reflects the righteousness of the law. A mindset of love. He doesn't need to remove the law to accomplish this.

 

[Button]

You think Christ teaches different from the schoolmaster, the very law Christ Himself established and is a transcript of God's character?
Christ is now working among His people to create in them a mindset that reflects the righteousness of the law. A mindset of love. He doesn't need to remove the law to accomplish this.

If you've spent time on different Christian forums and read various Bible topic threads,have you arrived at the opinion , some who post In them don't actually read or understand the Bible?

Which is what Jesus forewarned us about.

 

[amigo de christo]

Did Paul teach circumcision? Yes.
Animal sacrifice is a red herring.
Jesus was the unblemished lamb sacrificed once for the sins of the world.

Sabbath was made for man,not man for the Sabbath.

Something many Christians don't know,and I think our churches are partly responsible for this,is that the Tanakh does not say Jews work to attain salvation by obeying Torah.

Theirs is a covenant of faithfulness. Their salvation is not earned.They are already in a covenant with God.
Keeping God's laws is showing reverance for what is already their existing Salvation .

Why was GOD displeased with many of them . Yet he called abraham friend .
Any jew that beleives not GOD is only in unbelief .
SO allow a reminder to be said .
ANY JEW that rejects JESUS IS the CHRIST , IS NOT in covenant with GOD . In fact
as a jew well said , named john , if one believes not the TESTIMONY that GOD gave of the SON
they call GOD a liar .
There are many anti christs my friend . and believe me when i say that many of them are not just gentile but jewish .
ME THINKS , yea rather , ME KNOWS its about high time we point both jew and gentile TO JESUS THE CHRIST .
WHO had this to say to the unbelieving jews in his day
HAD YOU LOVED GOD you would have LOVED ME for i came forth of GOD .
HAD you beleived MOSES you would have BELEIVED ME , for MOSES wrote of me .
And This said HE to those jews who beleived not , YET CLIAMED GOD IS OUR FATHER .
Ready
steady
YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL . SO my advice to all is IF JESUS said it BELEIVE ME GOD SAID it .
And hence forth WE BETTER BELEIVE IT .

 

[amigo de christo]

Did Paul teach circumcision? Yes.
Animal sacrifice is a red herring.
Jesus was the unblemished lamb sacrificed once for the sins of the world.

Sabbath was made for man,not man for the Sabbath.

Something many Christians don't know,and I think our churches are partly responsible for this,is that the Tanakh does not say Jews work to attain salvation by obeying Torah.

Theirs is a covenant of faithfulness. Their salvation is not earned.They are already in a covenant with God.
Keeping God's laws is showing reverance for what is already their existing Salvation .

and now a word
B oth the law and prophets
pointed to CHRIST JESUS . Even MOSES wrote of him .
SO if they HEAR not the law , its no wonder they also c annot hear one , THOUGH HE DID RISE from the dead .
If they hear not the law and the prophets they will not be persauded though one rose f rom the dead .
WE needs to keep in mind , Failure to BELEIVE ON JESUS
IS FAILURE TO BELEIVE GOD ALL MIGHTY HIMSELF who testified OF THE SON .
YE have not the LOVE of GOD in you , said JESUS , for HE whom GOD has sent , HIM you believe not .
YEAH , so much for this false love ecumeical pile of dung
it cliams which says peoples in all religoins love God . NOPE they dont .
FOR Had the LOVE OF GOD been in them , HAD they LOVED GOD
they had NOT denied HIS CHRIST . we be tter bible up and real real fast . Cause i have to be honest
WE got leaders leading this people right to peridtion and they all think is love and of GOD . the devil IS A LIAR .
And he sure do desire the death of all .

 

[Soyeong]

Why was GOD displeased with many of them . Yet he called abraham friend .
Any jew that beleives not GOD is only in unbelief .
SO allow a reminder to be said .
ANY JEW that rejects JESUS IS the CHRIST , IS NOT in covenant with GOD . In fact
as a jew well said , named john , if one believes not the TESTIMONY that GOD gave of the SON
they call GOD a liar .
There are many anti christs my friend . and believe me when i say that many of them are not just gentile but jewish .
ME THINKS , yea rather , ME KNOWS its about high time we point both jew and gentile TO JESUS THE CHRIST .
WHO had this to say to the unbelieving jews in his day
HAD YOU LOVED GOD you would have LOVED ME for i came forth of GOD .
HAD you beleived MOSES you would have BELEIVED ME , for MOSES wrote of me .
And This said HE to those jews who beleived not , YET CLIAMED GOD IS OUR FATHER .
Ready
steady
YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL . SO my advice to all is IF JESUS said it BELEIVE ME GOD SAID it .
And hence forth WE BETTER BELEIVE IT .

In Hebrews 11, it lists people who had saving faith in spite of having never read the NT, so that is not a requirement for salvation. Likewise, Jesus affirmed in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus that listening to Moses and the Prophets was enough. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

Many Jews believe in the Messiah, but don't know his name. Jesus can be falsely misrepresented, so what is wrong is Christians misrepresenting Jesus, not Jews rejecting a misrepresentation of Jesus. For example, Jews have been persecuted in the name of Jesus over the course of the past two thousand years, so there is nothing wrong with Jews rejecting that Jesus. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speak against obeying the Torah, so if Jesus had done that as Christian commonly teach that he did, then Jews who rejected that Jesus would be correctly doing what God commanded them to do out of love for Him, so again there is nothing wrong with rejecting that Jesus. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and many Jews embody God's character traits in obedience to the Torah, so they have not rejected that Jesus.

 

[Button]

In Hebrews 11, it lists people who had saving faith in spite of having never read the NT, so that is not a requirement for salvation.

Great point. Very few in first century Palestine were literate
Theirs was an oral tradition. So,the teachings would have spread by word of mouth. Not the written NT word.

The NT first appeared in writing decades after Jesus. Between 50 and 60 CE.
The first being from Paul and his epistle of , 1st Thessalonians.

Likewise, Jesus affirmed in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus that listening to Moses and the Prophets was enough. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

Many Jews believe in the Messiah, but don't know his name. Jesus can be falsely misrepresented, so what is wrong is Christians misrepresenting Jesus, not Jews rejecting a misrepresentation of Jesus. For example, Jews have been persecuted in the name of Jesus over the course of the past two thousand years, so there is nothing wrong with Jews rejecting that Jesus. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speak against obeying the Torah, so if Jesus had done that as Christian commonly teach that he did, then Jews who rejected that Jesus would be correctly doing what God commanded them to do out of love for Him, so again there is nothing wrong with rejecting that Jesus. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and many Jews embody God's character traits in obedience to the Torah, so they have not rejected that Jesus.

 

[amigo de christo]

you all are selling JESUS out . but none of this suprises me anymore .
THEY prepared you all for this last hour .
WHEREIN the peoples and religoins of earth will all beleive they Follow GOD , HIS LOVE
and his plan for world peace .
ONLY ITS ANTI CHRIST . my goodness you people have no idea what you are doing .
PREACH JESUS and stop giving out anti christ false hope . you think is love , N O IT AINT .
IT wont save ANY of them .

 

[Soyeong]

you all are selling JESUS out . but none of this suprises me anymore .
THEY prepared you all for this last hour .
WHEREIN the peoples and religoins of earth will all beleive they Follow GOD , HIS LOVE
and his plan for world peace .
ONLY ITS ANTI CHRIST . my goodness you people have no idea what you are doing .
PREACH JESUS and stop giving out anti christ false hope . you think is love , N O IT AINT .
IT wont save ANY of them .

How am I selling Jesus out? Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example, so he is the man of lawfulness, which is in contrast with the Antichrist, who is the man of lawlessness (2 Thessalonians 2:3). I am much more concerned for Christians than for Jews considering the fact that there are many Jews who embody God's character traits in obedience to the Torah and the fact that many Christians who fight tooth and nail against following Christ's example of obedience to the Torah.

 

[shepherdsword]

You think Christ teaches different from the schoolmaster, the very law Christ Himself established and is a transcript of God's character?
Christ is now working among His people to create in them a mindset that reflects the righteousness of the law. A mindset of love. He doesn't need to remove the law to accomplish this.

Can't you read what Paul said? Are you saying he didn't know what he was talking about?

 

[shepherdsword]

Being under God's Word made flesh does not remove our obligation to obey God's Word.

The Mosiac law is part of the old covenant

In Romans 3:21-22, the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law of and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe, so there are not two different types of righteousness. For example, it is righteous to be a doer of charity through faith.

The only way to true righteousness is through faith in Christ. There IS another type...it's called self righteousness that comes from trying to keep the law.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be graciously to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life.

Moses himself failed to keep God's command and as a result, died before entering the land. Those that have faith in Christ obey him by a walk in the Spirit...not by an adherence to the letter of the law.

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works instead of pursuing it as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Law of God is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are committing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for salvation, so nothing in this passage has anything to do with ending the Law of God, but just the opposite. It doesn't even make sense to think that God's Word flesh ended God's Word.

Let's look at what the scripture actually says and not what you imagine it does:

Ro 10:3-4
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

They rejected Jesus and sought to be justified by keeping the law

That Is denying what Paul said is the word of faith that we proclaim and is in direct disagreement with God's Word. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying the Law of God, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved the Law of God and delighted in obeying it, so you are also expressing a view that is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture.

It is YOUR adherence to the old testament law that denies justification by faith. Do you read the New Testament?

If God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to His law, then it would be for bondage that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against. It should not even make sense to you to interpret a servant of God as speaking against obeying what He has commanded. In Psalms 119:142, the Law of God is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Law of God that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free. Moreover, the Law of God came through the line of the free woman, not the line of the slave woman.

This is why the law was given:

Gal 3:18-19 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come(Jesus) to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Again, I quoted many verses that say that the New Covenant involves following the Law of God, that the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it, and that obedience to it brings life, so 2 Corinthians 3:6 should be interpreted in a way that is in accordance with the rest of the Bible rather than a way that overturns the rest of the Bible.

I have presented numerous verses that show that the will of God is kept and a fulfilling of the law is kept by a walk in the Spirit and not by a self righteous adherence to the letter of the law. They show your misunderstanding of the gospel with an attempt to establish one's own self righteousness.

 

[Soyeong]

The Mosiac law is part of the old covenant

Indeed, though it is also part of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27).

The only way to true righteousness is through faith in Christ. There IS another type...it's called self righteousness that comes from trying to keep the law.

God did not give His law as a way of establishing our own righteousness, but in order to teach us how to embody His righteousness. The one and only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to be righteous is to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God (1 John 3:4-7), so it would be contradictory to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31). We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of doing that in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was given in order to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it describes the life of Christ, so it is what we are becoming a doer of by being given the gift of righteousness, not something that we are required to have done first in order to become righteous.

Moses himself failed to keep God's command and as a result, died before entering the land. Those that have faith in Christ obey him by a walk in the Spirit...not by an adherence to the letter of the law.

God has not commanded anything that is not in accordance with walking in the Spirit, but rather the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God, which is why Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God (Romans 8:4-7).

Let's look at what the scripture actually says and not what you imagine it does:

Ro 10:3-4
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

They rejected Jesus and sought to be justified by keeping the law

What I said is in accordance with what Scripture says. The context is speaking about them failing to acting righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law.

It is YOUR adherence to the old testament law that denies justification by faith. Do you read the New Testament?

I do read the NT. I have not said anything to deny that justification is by faith, but even if it were true that I had, it wouldn't change the fact that your claim that the law was a yoke that the Jews could not bear denies what Paul said is the word of faith that we proclaim, it is in direct disagreement with God's Word, and it is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture.

This is why the law was given:

Gal 3:18-19 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come(Jesus) to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

That doesn't counter anything that I said about Galatians 4-5:1.

I have presented numerous verses that show that the will of God is kept and a fulfilling of the law is kept by a walk in the Spirit and not by a self righteous adherence to the letter of the law. They show your misunderstanding of the gospel with an attempt to establish one's own self righteousness.

No, you just quoted 2 Corinthians 3:6 again while ignoring everything that I said in regard to that verse and the many verses that I quoted that show that the New Covenant still involves following the Law of God, that the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it, and that obedience to it brings life.

If God had given His law in order to teach us how to become self-righteous and God does not want us to become self-righteous, then it would follow that God therefore wants to be disobeyed, which is absurd, so it was not given as instructions for how to become self-righteous, but rather it was given as instructions for how to embody His righteousness.

 

[shepherdsword]

Indeed, though it is also part of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27).

No it's not..according to Acts, Romans and Galatians. The law that is written on our hearts is not the letter of the OT. It;s the law of life in Christ Jesus. You need to study the New Testament

Ro 8:1-4
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God did not give His law as a way of establishing our own righteousness, but in order to teach us how to embody His righteousness. The one and only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to be righteous is to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God (1 John 3:4-7), so it would be contradictory to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31). We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of doing that in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was given in order to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it describes the life of Christ, so it is what we are becoming a doer of by being given the gift of righteousness, not something that we are required to have done first in order to become righteous.

The law was given because of transgression.

Gal 3:18-19 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

God has not commanded anything that is not in accordance with walking in the Spirit, but rather the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God, which is why Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God (Romans 8:4-7).

Romans 8:4-7 is speaking about the law of life in Christ Jesus...not the law of Moses

Ro 8:4-7 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law....not the letter

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

We need to keep our mind on heavenly things and not things on the earth (Col 3:1-4)

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

We can only find peace when we surrender to the will of God. The best way to accomplish this is to be thankful in all things (1 Th 5:18)

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

We need to seek after the endless life of Jesus and forget carnal commandments (Heb 7:16)

What I said is in accordance with what Scripture says. The context is speaking about them failing to acting righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law.

They failed because they attempted to fulfill the law which no man can do...this is why Christ was sent:

I do read the NT. I have not said anything to deny that justification is by faith, but even if it were true that I had, it wouldn't change the fact that your claim that the law was a yoke that the Jews could not bear denies what Paul said is the word of faith that we proclaim, it is in direct disagreement with God's Word, and it is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture.

If you believe that you are justified by keeping the sabbath then your righteousness is not based on faith. The letters of Paul clarify the Psalms but you do not understand either one.

That doesn't counter anything that I said about Galatians 4-5:1.

Galatians 4 hinges on this:

Gal 4:9-11
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days,(SABBATH) and months, and times, and years. am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Paul was concerned because false teachers were claiming they had to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses

Ac 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

The apostles clarified it here:

Ac 15:6-10
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

They saw the law of Moses as a YOKE that they could not bear. Therefor this was all they required of the gentiles in regard to the law of Moses:

Ac 15:19-21
Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

No, you just quoted 2 Corinthians 3:6 again while ignoring everything that I said in regard to that verse and the many verses that I quoted that show that the New Covenant still involves following the Law of God, that the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it, and that obedience to it brings life.

Everything you said was a mixed up convolution of keeping the letter of law mixed with faith. 2Cor 3:6 is a perfect rebuttal for that...which you have yet to counter

If God had given His law in order to teach us how to become self-righteous and God does not want us to become self-righteous, then it would follow that God therefore wants to be disobeyed, which is absurd, so it was not given as instructions for how to become self-righteous, but rather it was given as instructions for how to embody His righteousness.

God gave us the law to show how utterly depraved we are and for us to recognize the need for a savior to impart true righteousness to us. Our self efforts cannot save and that was the lesson the schoolmaster of the law was sent to teach.

 

[Brakelite]

Gal 3:24-26
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

It's our relationship to the law that has changed. Nowhere in scripture is they any suggestion that the law is gone. But let me make something clear. The laws in relation to the sanctuary service are no longer Spokane to those in Christ. Those laws were fulfilled throughout His ministry, including today as He served as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. But the Ten Commandments. They are eternal, infallible, and sacred. They are not to be touched. Sadly, the bulk of the Christian Church has established a tradition that directly impacts worship which is dealt with in the first 4 commandments...our relationship with God. You know the verse..."in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. "

 

[HealthyShape]

The position that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has commanded is fundamentally basic to Christianity.

What church are you from to speak about what is fundamentally basic to Christianity or to even interpret Scriptures here? So far it seems you do not understand even basics.

 

[shepherdsword]

It's our relationship to the law that has changed. Nowhere in scripture is they any suggestion that the law is gone. But let me make something clear. The laws in relation to the sanctuary service are no longer Spokane to those in Christ. Those laws were fulfilled throughout His ministry, including today as He served as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. But the Ten Commandments. They are eternal, infallible, and sacred. They are not to be touched. Sadly, the bulk of the Christian Church has established a tradition that directly impacts worship which is dealt with in the first 4 commandments...our relationship with God. You know the verse..."in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. "

If the sabbath was as critical as your sect claims we would see it being commanded in the new testament. Can you name a single place where it is? Instead we find verses like this:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Gal 4:9-11
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

If the saturday sabbath (even the name of the day is pagan)was as critical as you claim we would see it excluded in any of the above mention places. We would also expect a direct command to keep it. We don't.

 

[amigo de christo]

How am I selling Jesus out? Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example, so he is the man of lawfulness, which is in contrast with the Antichrist, who is the man of lawlessness (2 Thessalonians 2:3). I am much more concerned for Christians than for Jews considering the fact that there are many Jews who embody God's character traits in obedience to the Torah and the fact that many Christians who fight tooth and nail against following Christ's example of obedience to the Torah.

it is by faith in JESUS that one is saved . You made it seem as though its not necessary . reread what you wrote .
Now i already know t here were examples of faith seen in the OT . the same OT that also pointed to CHRIST .
but after HE has come the gospel from thence would be spread . Everything in the old would point to the new , to CHRIST .
and many died having faith in THIS coming savoir of Israel . You cannot try and make it seem
LIKE its not necessary for folks TO have to BELEIVE on JESUS . ITS TIME we sound like The true men did . We got their letters
They all went about PREACHING CHRIST and unto any jew or gentile that denied Christ
they did shake off the dust against them as a war ning , as a reminder .
No more of this ecumenical choo choo train . That harlot and her doctrine , WHICH saves none but damns all , must
be booted out of any place that names the NAME of JESUS . T ime we do as the t rue ones did .
PREACH JESUS and all biblical sound doctrine .