How many former Catholics are here?

[JesusFan]

That doesn't impress me. It is how you use God's book that's more important than having one on the shelf that you refer to every now and again to cherry pick that which bolsters your arguments.

She was absolutely anointed to teach. Her visions and prophetic word demanded she share those with the church.

How come she was only then sent to be a prophetess to sda, would not God had sent her forth with his revelations to all churches?

 

[JesusFan]

Yeah, only those that really love the Lord are impressed by what He has to say.




She was most definitely anointed to teach... just not by good spirits that are from the Lord Jesus View attachment 80422

her angle that spoke to her was demonic, same type who spoke to smith

 

[JesusFan]

You have no credibility in judging whether God was right or wrong in using Ellen White as His messenger. God can and does use whosoever He wishes. Ellen White was never an administrative leader in the church, nor was she ordained as a church pastor or elder, not even a deaconess.
If what you claim is anywhere near the truth, she being, according to you, a false prophet and false teacher, then you need to explain why Satan would use her to exalt Christ and direct people to the Scriptures, not just here and there, or on occasion, but as the underlying principle to everything she wrote and spoke about. You guys have no idea who she was because you refuse to enquire. And by throwing doubt and accusation against her without any investigation as to the veracity of your argument, it is you who has become the false teacher,

Why is it then that NO Sda minister can stay in good standing if they disagree with ANY of her teachings regarding scriptures, does that not elevate her to be final authority?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Do the SDA people claim one cannot go to Heaven unless they follow the teachings of Ellen White?

 

[Brakelite]

How come she was only then sent to be a prophetess to sda, would not God had sent her forth with his revelations to all churches?

The initial revelation that sparked the great awakening did go to all the churches through Miller but they rejected it. Put of 50,000 people who did await the second coming, who were convinced that 22nd October 1844 was the real deal, proved from scripture and which no man could argue against notwithstanding the error of the event, only 50 of that original number got together to pay and ask answers. Correct date, but where did they go wrong? The cleansing of the sanctuary... Daniel 8:14. They believed the sanctuary in that context was the earth. Maybe... maybe something else was going on... so they continued to pray and study their Bibles. The Holy Spirit led them to Leviticus. And they found their answer in the sanctuary of the OT. THE CLEANSING OF THE SANCTUARY IS A BIBLICALLY SOUND EVENT... THE BEAST OF YOM KIPPUR. THE DAY OF ATONEMENT. and the movement of the High Priest as he officiated in the sanctuary from the holy place to the most holy. 2300 days, years, from 457bc to 1844. It all began to make sense. Ellen White wasn't among those who studied. She was only 17, and sickly. It was others who built on the biblical texts.
Line upon line here a little they're an little. Daniel 8:14, Daniel 7, Leviticus 16.

 

[Brakelite]

How come she was only then sent to be a prophetess to sda, would not God had sent her forth with his revelations to all churches?

The other churches at the time rejected William Miller, and kicked out those who followed him. But they e were rejecting a genuine message. Torrent and prepare for the second coming. This came message was simultaneously being preached in euros, Asia and South America. The Lord was waking up the world to the prophetic signs of the time. And the churches weren't purpose and didn't want to be. They posed the message. And as a result history sports that are 1844 those churches that declined the invitation went into serious declension. While the Adventists grew., becoming a distinct church in the 1860s.

 

[Brakelite]

Why is it then that NO Sda minister can stay in good standing if they disagree with ANY of her teachings regarding scriptures, does that not elevate her to be final authority?

Ellen White did not initiate one single doctrine in the church. All came from the Bible. And we depend solely on the Bible to this day. We don't need her writings to prove doctrine. That wasn't her role. You will not find one example any where in her writings that offers a doctrinal dissertation.

You'll will probably not even bother to read this, or accept it as genuine, but Ellen White wrote the following:

But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority—not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain “Thus saith the Lord” in its support.
Satan is constantly endeavoring to attract attention to man in the place of God. He leads the people to look to bishops, to pastors, to professors of theology, as their guides, instead of searching the Scriptures to learn their duty for themselves. Then, by controlling the minds of these leaders, he can influence the multitudes according to his will. GC 595.1 - GC 595.2

 

[Brakelite]

Why is it then that NO Sda minister can stay in good standing if they disagree with ANY of her teachings regarding scriptures, does that not elevate her to be final authority?

No. And your premise is wrong.

 

[JesusFan]

No. And your premise is wrong.

Ask Desmond Ford, as he rejected her Investigative Judgement theology and got defrocked

 

[JesusFan]

Do the SDA people claim one cannot go to Heaven unless they follow the teachings of Ellen White? View attachment 80456

They must keep Jewish Sabbath and dietary laws, must see Sda as remnant church, and must see EW as having gift of being a prophetess

 

[JesusFan]

The initial revelation that sparked the great awakening did go to all the churches through Miller but they rejected it. Put of 50,000 people who did await the second coming, who were convinced that 22nd October 1844 was the real deal, proved from scripture and which no man could argue against notwithstanding the error of the event, only 50 of that original number got together to pay and ask answers. Correct date, but where did they go wrong? The cleansing of the sanctuary... Daniel 8:14. They believed the sanctuary in that context was the earth. Maybe... maybe something else was going on... so they continued to pray and study their Bibles. The Holy Spirit led them to Leviticus. And they found their answer in the sanctuary of the OT. THE CLEANSING OF THE SANCTUARY IS A BIBLICALLY SOUND EVENT... THE BEAST OF YOM KIPPUR. THE DAY OF ATONEMENT. and the movement of the High Priest as he officiated in the sanctuary from the holy place to the most holy. 2300 days, years, from 457bc to 1844. It all began to make sense. Ellen White wasn't among those who studied. She was only 17, and sickly. It was others who built on the biblical texts.
Line upon line here a little they're an little. Daniel 8:14, Daniel 7, Leviticus 16.

Miller to his credit stated that he was wrong and stayed a Baptist

 

[JesusFan]

The other churches at the time rejected William Miller, and kicked out those who followed him. But they e were rejecting a genuine message. Torrent and prepare for the second coming. This came message was simultaneously being preached in euros, Asia and South America. The Lord was waking up the world to the prophetic signs of the time. And the churches weren't purpose and didn't want to be. They posed the message. And as a result history sports that are 1844 those churches that declined the invitation went into serious declension. While the Adventists grew., becoming a distinct church in the 1860s.

All of the Sda theology regarding IJ came about due to misunderstanding the times and dates in Daniel prophecy

 

[JesusFan]

Ellen White did not initiate one single doctrine in the church. All came from the Bible. And we depend solely on the Bible to this day. We don't need her writings to prove doctrine. That wasn't her role. You will not find one example any where in her writings that offers a doctrinal dissertation.

You'll will probably not even bother to read this, or accept it as genuine, but Ellen White wrote the following:

But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority—not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain “Thus saith the Lord” in its support.
Satan is constantly endeavoring to attract attention to man in the place of God. He leads the people to look to bishops, to pastors, to professors of theology, as their guides, instead of searching the Scriptures to learn their duty for themselves. Then, by controlling the minds of these leaders, he can influence the multitudes according to his will. GC 595.1 - GC 595.2

Ellen G. White was a false prophetess. Her promotion of Sabbath-keeping as a primary doctrine in the church goes against the clear teaching of the New Testament on the matter (Romans 14:5). Her “revelation” that hell is not eternal contradicts Jesus’ words concerning “eternal punishment” in Matthew 25:46. Her teaching that the sins of believers will be placed on Satan, the “scapegoat” (The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485), is the opposite of what the Bible says about who bore our sins (see 1 Peter 2:24). Her identification of Jesus as Michael the archangel (Jude 1:9, Clear Word Bible, published by Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1994) is a denial of the true nature of Christ. Her repudiation of the verbal inspiration of the Bible (Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 21 Manuscript 24, 1886) is at variance with passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16 and Psalm 12:6.

More basically, followers of Ellen G. White face a very real question concerning the sufficiency of Scripture. Is the Bible sufficient for our faith and practice, or do we need further revelation in the form of 2,000 visions from a self-proclaimed prophetess? Seventh-Day Adventists’ official stance is that “the Holy Scriptures are the supreme, authoritative, and the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the definitive revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history” (https://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/god/holy-scriptures/, accessed June 2, 2016). Yet, at the same time, most Seventh-Day Adventists accept the works of Ellen G. White as authoritative and binding. From the same official website: “Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church” (https://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/church/the-gift-of-prophecy/, accessed June 2, 2016). What is “prophetic authority” if not the right to mandate belief based on divine words given through a human? How do the utterances of Ellen G. White differ from the Bible’s declarations of truth?

Who was Ellen G. White? | GotQuestions.org

Who was Ellen G. White? Was Ellen G. White the founder of Seventh Day Adventism? Were Ellen G. White’s visions biblical?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Miller to his credit stated that he was wrong and stayed a Baptist

I grew up in a town where their were lots of baptists.

They all believed in once saved always saved so they smoked dope, got drunk, fornicated just like all the rest of us hetherns
(this was back before I had gotten born again)

Consequently I was never a big fan of the baptists as over the years I've seen quite a few of them living openly in sinful behavior claiming to be saved and get really mad when they are told they are tares.

 

[Brakelite]

Ask Desmond Ford, as he rejected her Investigative Judgement theology and got defrocked

You really think that was all there was to it?

 

[JesusFan]

I grew up in a town where their were lots of baptists.

They all believed in once saved always saved so they smoked dope, got drunk, fornicated just like all the rest of us hetherns
(this was back before I had gotten born again)

Consequently I was never a big fan of the baptists as over the years I've seen quite a few of them living openly in sinful behavior claiming to be saved and get really mad when they are told they are tares.

They were those who were professing Jesus saved them, but were not really showing forth godly fruit

 

[JesusFan]

You really think that was all there was to it?

I do know that the Sda had a meeting with all of their big name theologians and while many supported him, more supported ellen White heresy on that doctrine

 

[Brakelite]

Ellen G. White was a false prophetess. Her promotion of Sabbath-keeping as a primary doctrine in the church goes against the clear teaching of the New Testament on the matter (Romans 14:5).

Her promotion? The early Adventists were first made aware of the true Sabbath by Seventh Day Baptists, who themselves became aware of the true Sabbath from other Sabbath keepers throughout Christian history, such as Malencthon, all of whom were able to confirm the veracity of the doctrine from scripture, as Adventists do to this day. Ellen White invented it? You are showing desperation in your maligning of someone you know nothing of.

Her “revelation” that hell is not eternal contradicts Jesus’ words concerning “eternal punishment” in Matthew 25:46.

She didn't invent that either. Martin Luther and numerous others held to that. Would you like a list?

Her teaching that the sins of believers will be placed on Satan, the “scapegoat” (The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485), is the opposite of what the Bible says about who bore our sins (see 1 Peter 2:24).

Now you are showing your abject ignorance of Adventists' understanding of the atonement, and your ignorance is blinding you to the possibility you may need to relearn scripture truth. Jesus indeed bore our sins. 2 questions. Where did He bear them to? And what happened to those sins after?

Her identification of Jesus as Michael the archangel (Jude 1:9, Clear Word Bible, published by Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1994) is a denial of the true nature of Christ. Her repudiation of the verbal inspiration of the Bible (Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 21 Manuscript 24, 1886) is at variance with passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16 and Psalm 12:6.

Even ancient scholars of Israel recognise Michael the archangel as someone much greater than an angel.

More basically, followers of Ellen G. White face a very real question concerning the sufficiency of Scripture. Is the Bible sufficient for our faith and practice, or do we need further revelation in the form of 2,000 visions from a self-proclaimed prophetess? Seventh-Day Adventists’ official stance is that “the Holy Scriptures are the supreme, authoritative, and the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the definitive revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history” (https://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/god/holy-scriptures/, accessed June 2, 2016). Yet, at the same time, most Seventh-Day Adventists accept the works of Ellen G. White as authoritative and binding. From the same official website: “Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church”

Israel had the Torah, yet God sent them Elijah. Israel needed to be warned of the coming of Messiah, so He sent them John the Baptist. Jesus is returning soon, and the church needs to be prepared. The NT promised teachers, apostles, prophets, for the perfecting of the saints. Are the saints perfect?

 

[Brakelite]

Further to the above, SDA church has held to 1844 despite yours and numerous others objections. For 160 years. Many of Ellen White's visions were 'open' , in other words in the middle of meetings and in the company of others, including skeptics. Doctors present verified she didn't breathe, and her eyes unblinking, and she had thy strength to hold at arms length a large full sized family Bible and quote from pages facing away from her. For over an hour. Adventism was established in the open for all to witness. Not in the secret chambers such as Mormons and JWs. Of you are going to criticize, do your own investigation and not leave it to others and then quote their ignorance.

 

[JesusFan]

Her promotion? The early Adventists were first made aware of the true Sabbath by Seventh Day Baptists, who themselves became aware of the true Sabbath from other Sabbath keepers throughout Christian history, such as Malencthon, all of whom were able to confirm the veracity of the doctrine from scripture, as Adventists do to this day. Ellen White invented it? You are showing desperation in your maligning of someone you know nothing of.

She didn't invent that either. Martin Luther and numerous others held to that. Would you like a list?

Now you are showing your abject ignorance of Adventists' understanding of the atonement, and your ignorance is blinding you to the possibility you may need to relearn scripture truth. Jesus indeed bore our sins. 2 questions. Where did He bear them to? And what happened to those sins after?

Even ancient scholars of Israel recognise Michael the archangel as someone much greater than an angel.

Israel had the Torah, yet God sent them Elijah. Israel needed to be warned of the coming of Messiah, so He sent them John the Baptist. Jesus is returning soon, and the church needs to be prepared. The NT promised teachers, apostles, prophets, for the perfecting of the saints. Are the saints perfect?

Michael was and is a created arch angel, while Jesus was and is eternally God, and EW did indeed see Sabbath keeping required for salvation, and that none can ever know for sure are saved, as God will judge us based upon how well kept the law and Sabbath, so salvations by efforts and good works