Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?

[ProDeo]

I hate to post this.

1. The lake of fire only mentioned in the book of Revelation, release : first century AD

2. The river of fire in Greek mythology is the Phlegethon (or Pyriphlegethon), one of the five, or sometimes four, main rivers of the Underworld. Known as a "flaming" river, it flows with fire rather than water, surrounding the deepest parts of the Underworld, specifically Tartarus.
Key Details About the Phlegethon:

• Purpose: It is a river of punishment, meant to punish the wicked and those who have committed violent crimes.
• Location: The river flows through and surrounds Tartarus, the abyss used as a prison for Titans and the condemned.
• Appearance: It is described as a boiling stream of fire, sometimes associated with volcanic eruptions.
• Mythological Role: In some myths, it is said to heal those being tortured, ensuring they can endure more pain. It is also occasionally described in later literature as having restorative, yet painful, properties.
• Alternative Names: Often referred to as Pyriphlegethon ("fiery-burning").

The Phlegethon is one of the five infernal rivers, along with the StyxLetheCocytus, and Acheron. Unlike in Dante's Inferno, where the river of blood is called Phlegethon, in classical Greek mythology, it is composed of pure fire.

Release : ~500 BC

3. Lake of Fire Egypt mythology

The Lake of Fire in Ancient Egyptian belief is a compelling and multifaceted concept, primarily depicted in funerary texts such as the Book of the Dead. This lake, known in Egyptian as the “Lake of Flames,” served as both a perilous obstacle and a source of purification for the deceased navigating the Duat, the Egyptian underworld.

....

The concept of the Lake of Fire bears a striking resemblance to notions of hell or purgatory in Abrahamic religions. In Christianity, the “lake of fire” is mentioned in the Book of Revelation as a place of eternal punishment for the wicked. Similarly, in Ancient Egyptian belief, those who failed the judgment of the heart could be cast into the Lake of Fire, leading to their annihilation. However, unlike the eternal torment described in some Christian interpretations, the Egyptian Lake of Fire could also serve as a purifying force for the righteous. It shares the fire imagery and the theme of moral trial and punishment, but unlike the Christian and Jewish notion of Purgatory/Gehenna, where the soul of the deceased would spend a painful time being cleansed of sin, the Lake of Fire did not always provide a guaranteed path to salvation, and its stakes were permanent.

“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:14–15 (King James Version)

Release ~1000 BC

 

[Lizbeth]

I think it will work the same for everyone.

Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

You're very consistent in your habit of ignoring so much..... cherry picking again.....you need to read the whole passage and context of Mark 9......it agrees with this:

1Pe 4:17
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

As believers we count the cost and lose some things in this life on the road to holiness....chastised as sons....the offering of our lives salted with fire....better to be salted because that preserves us......the alternative is to be completely burned up and destroyed in the end like those who obey not the gospel of God.

Refiner's fire, launderer's soap......His word cleanses....the washing of the water of the word.....and some needed a good scrubbing which stings....and we saw how they took it. Not well at all.

We've already been over Romans 2. Context. Jews were/are not superior to the Gentiles.....all will be judged alike without respect of persons.

 

[Lizbeth]

What do you do with that?

Isaiah 26
9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.


Do your reading glasses fog up?

Isaiah 45
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Are they cracked?

Luke 3
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Perhaps you need a new prescription.

Spiritual language............poetic and often the use of hyperbole. We need to ears to hear what the SPIRIT is saying. All flesh refers to both Jew and Gentile. I see in these passage the generous offering of salvation to all and the love of God that hopes all things, God opening His arms wide to all.........but we know that not all will come to Him receive what He so generously offers, sadly.

 

[St. SteVen]

OK, thank you for your explanation.
This "judgement" you mention; you are right.
And God is very merciful. With that in mind, when you get time read Acts 24:15... the "resurrection of judgement" for the "unrighteous", try to tie that in with Romans 6:7.

I'll come back on here tomorrow because it is too late now for me to get into this; good night.

Let's take a look. Thanks.

Acts 24:15 NIV
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have,
that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Romans 6:7 NIV
because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

 

[St. SteVen]

1Pe 4:17
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

That's good.
The same judgement for both.

 

[St. SteVen]

You're very consistent in your habit of ignoring so much..... cherry picking again.....

That saw cuts both ways.
You do it too.

 

[Lizbeth]

What did peter warn the church . JUDMENT begins at THE HOUSE OF GOD
and if it begin at us , WHAT WILL THE END BE of those who obey Not the gospel of God .
Now if memory serves me
I read about apostels who were stoned . wow that would hurt .
Backs ripped open with whips , rods and etc .
I later read ab out how nero had christains wrapped in wax oil , THEN LIT ON FIRE
and the screams and wails could be heard .
Others also t hroughout history have been b urned alive in flames .
YET PETER said , AS PAUL WOULD TOO
SOMETHING FAR WORSE , A FAR sorer punishement awaits THE Christ denyer .
Now what could b e worse a fate .
I mean even by the law one could b e stoned to death
By two or three witnesses .
And what DID JESUS say
to those who failed to beleive on HIM . WOE unto thee , , WOE unto thee
it will be far worse for YOU than ever it was for sodom on the DAY OF JUDGMENT .
And yet st steven wants to ADD IN a THIRD ressurection t ype . NEVER MENTIONED in REVELATION .
BUT THIS was mentioned in revelation
HE who adds too
HE who takes from , LAKE OF FIRE , the plagues . st steven has ab out zero idea
the wrath he is a heaping up for himself .

I just quoted Peter's verse too brother. What does the END mean? Scratching my head here, hmmmm.....thinking really hard.....I conclude it must mean just what it says......the end. One's FINAL state, not a coming back from it. It is appointed unto man but once to die, and then the judgment.....I get a sense of finality with that.

Amen....the wrath of God.....going by scripture, whatever we may think of it in the details, it sure is presented as something to be avoided at ALL costs. Since the Lord presents it in such terms, who are we or anyone to try and water it down or sugar-coat it?

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm pretty sure that everyone will have a bit of "wrath" to contend with in the judgment.

By "wrath" I mean accountability for our actions. Every nation, leader and individual.

Worth repeating. #350

 

[shepherdsword]

Here's something I find interesting.

My views on Ultimate Redemption (Universalism) are typically dismissed for not aligning with "a whole Bible view".
Seems that saw should cut both ways.

What happens if your "a whole Bible view" includes my scriptures rather than dismisses them? - Then what?

Romans 5:15-19 NIV
But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by
the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation,
but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,
how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of
the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Only those written in the lamb's book of life:

Rv 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

All will be resurrected for the final judgement

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The provision is available for all. However, only those who enter in by faith can partake.
conclusion:

"Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?"​

Because it's a satanic lie from the pit of hell.

 

[Beebster]

Spiritual language............poetic and often the use of hyperbole.

And yet all true.
Scripture is full of figurative language, and as you say:

We need to ears to hear what the SPIRIT is saying.

Yes we do. Which is none of our doing. It is Christ who heals us, not of ourselves.

All flesh refers to both Jew and Gentile.

Sure, his elect and the rest of the world.

I see in these passage the generous offering of salvation to all and the love of God that hopes all things, God opening His arms wide to all.........but we know that not all will come to Him receive what He so generously offers, sadly.

When you say "offering" you are really putting the onus of salvation on our shoulders. God molds each and every one of us for his purpose, not ours.

 

[Lizbeth]

That's good.
The same judgement for both.

?? Is it? Then please explain how receiving eternal life and perishing are the same...? And how being justified and condemned/damned are the same...? And how salvation and perdition are the same...?

 

[amigo de christo]

?? Is it? Then please explain how receiving eternal life and perishing are the same...? And how being justified and condemned/damned are the same...? And how salvation and perdition are the same...?

ts all b een of the well favored harlot
from her ecumeincal cup she has infected this world and all religoins .
What some called nohaide
what others called ecumenical
what others still called bridge building to tearing down walls
what others called love and made cliam was the love of GOD
ALL was but a delusion and deception for to prepare the world unto this last hour .
And it all boiled down to what had already b egan in even the days of the apostels
but surged with break neck speed in this last hour .
IT was always of the darkness
its father was always the dragon who did naught but preach rebellion
but did so under the guise it was OF GOD .
THEY will continue to merge
and all who sowed to the winds of the dark ones song
Gonna reap the whirlwind on the day OF GOD all mighty and THE Lamb .
Christains have bled through all ages
so marvel not if we be persecuted too .
BUT seeing judgment has always began at the HOUSE of GOD
and throughout all ages it has b een . Even wails and shrill screams could be heard
at night from the garden of nero as christains were lit on fire to be burned .
Backs laid open with stripes
BUT IF THIS CAN COME UPON those of the green tree
I SHUDDER IN TOTAL FEAR for what is to come upon those of the dry one .
WE really SHOULD have stuck to the original pattern .
WE should have LOVED JESUS WORDS , NOT TROD them under foot for mens doctrines and lies .
The sheep , WELL THEY DID and THEY DO love HIM and HIS words and THE TRUTH .
FOR g reater is HE that is in them and has given them whole new desires .
BUT woe unto the one decked in wool who cometh in by the name of JESUS
and YET leads this people to REBELLION . SHUDDER IN TERROR
SHUDDER IN FEAR for that one . cause that end is REAL HARSH indeed .
WE need to get this people back into THE BIBLE . WE NEED to focus ON CHRIST , HIS teachings
the apostels teachings and THE TRUTH . cause many aint gonna make it .

 

[amigo de christo]

?? Is it? Then please explain how receiving eternal life and perishing are the same...? And how being justified and condemned/damned are the same...? And how salvation and perdition are the same...?

the dust has been brushed sister
Men gonna do as men gonna do
sheep gonna do as JESUS bids them do .
THIS WORLD GONNA MERGE SISTER .
The peace plan , the solution , the false love that all will beleive was of GOD
will end them all on the day of the LORD . And hand will continue to join with hand
and the numbers will only swell of those who drink of a harlots cup .
Persecution and cutions WILL increase
and all who do so will believe they do the will of GOD .
THIS will be allowed to come against the sheep of HIS PASTURE
and by many who even believed THEY DO THE WILL OF GOD .
THERRE is nothing i can do or any man can to STOP IT . IT was foretold , we were warned in the pages
of that most holy book that many NOW deconstruct .
THEY believe THEY DO THE WILL OF GOD sister .
But have no idea its been the will of HE who first rebelled against THE ONE TRUE GOD .
Bible up , stay in prayer , b ut marvel not that it will only get worse with whatever time we have left .

 

[amigo de christo]

?? Is it? Then please explain how receiving eternal life and perishing are the same...? And how being justified and condemned/damned are the same...? And how salvation and perdition are the same...?

When south america was invaded the fourth country of the five was taken . ONLY IRAN remained .
NOT SO ANYMORE . THEY GOT IT TOO .
They warned about this years and years ago sister . THE PLAN of the world agenda .
And people really THINK these leaders of either side were for the people .
NOPE . IT was always an Ag enda . just like was the ecumenical transformation from within .
Devil aint been sleeping at all
HE been working though those in high places to take captive all to the lie
to b eleive the lie and to be damned .
Its fruit swells now in the vine of the earth
its inquity has risen under guise of a love of this world
and it has led all its captives into only greater hatred and greater rebellion
AGAINST THE ONLY GOD , HIS CHRIST who could have saved them
and against the sheep OF HIS PASTURE . It grows and it swells now sister . it was all foretold too .
YET again in a book MOST deconstruct twist and omit and do so unto their own destruction .

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
That's good.
The same judgement for both.

?? Is it? Then please explain how receiving eternal life and perishing are the same...? And how being justified and condemned/damned are the same...? And how salvation and perdition are the same...?

You seem to be confused about the difference between judging and sentencing.

 

[St. SteVen]

"Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?"​

Because it's a satanic lie from the pit of hell.

I expect better treatment than this from staff members.

 

[shepherdsword]

I expect better treatment than this from staff members.

No one is mistreating you. I am just calling out the doctrine of demons that you promote. Universalism is from the pit of hell and leads many astray,
Jude 3-4
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

No one is mistreating you. I am just calling out the doctrine of demons that you promote. Universalism is from the pit of hell and leads many astray,
Jude 3-4
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Slanderous lies.
You know nothing about Universalism.

 

[shepherdsword]

Slanderous lies.
You know nothing about Universalism.

I know it's a lie from Satan "You shall not surely die"

 

[Beebster]

I know it's a lie from Satan "You shall not surely die"

I believe in universal salvation. And I believe everyone must die.