The Third Woe

[Douggg]

The Gog/Magog war is post mill. The covenant the a/c makes is Not a religious one. It is a type of peace treaty that Dan. 11:22-23 affirms. The word "league" means covenant.

No, the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is followed by 7 years, the first 7 months of which the Jews in Israel will be burying the bodies, Ezekiel 39:12, cleaning up the land.

If you look at Revelation 20:8-11, there is no 7 years following the destruction of final rebellion of the nations (in red on my chart below). What Gog and Magog means in Revelation 20:8 is that it will be that same nations that took part in the Ezekiel 38-39 attack a thousand years earlier.








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You mentioned Daniel 11:22-23. Those verses have been fulfilled historically by Antiochus IV. Daniel 11 does not transition to the end times until Daniel 11:35. Daniel 11:36 picks up in the end times with the Antichrist as the beast king is in power.

 

[Marilyn C]

My diagram shows

1. Woe - at releasing of demons from the pit. (Rev. 9: 12)

2. Woe - Great army through to great Earthquake. (Rev. 11: 14)

3. Woe - The appearing of the Lord Jesus with His angelic army. (Rev. 11: 15 & 19 with 19: 11 - 21)

 

[TribulationSigns]

The symbolism of Rev. 12 is taken from Joseph's dream in Gen.37:9. Rev.1:12

That's all you have to say? What does the number twelves signify in Scripture? Explain to us about the woman in heaven in Revelation 12. What was she doing in heaven if you believe it was literal? And the meaning of sun, moon and crown of twelve stars? What "stars of heaven" did the Dragon drew with his tail? And what does a tail signifies? I can see that you really can't explain these yet like I asked.

16 explained in vs. 20.

Huh? No, you need to explain what Revelation 16 talked about and how you believe this applies to Revelation 20? Show me what the text says. Don't show me the numbers.

Rev. 13:1 explained in Rev. 17: 8-13

Literal beasts coming out of sea? What sea? Have literal heads? Seriously, explain this yourself to see if you can biblically justify literal interpretation.

. I do know what I'm talking about as I have been studying prophecy for decades.

Really? By reading the books from John Walvoord, John MacArthur, John Nelson Darby, Dave Hunt, etc.

I was also able to do what you asked and I bet you believed I couldn't do it!

But you did not answer the questions. You just give us the number without explaining what the text and the context God talked about.

 

[Trekson]

I agree. Vial 2 is an intensification of Trumpet 2. Vial 3 is an intensification of Trumpet 3.

View attachment 80750

The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, Satan cast down having great wrath knowing his time is short. His time left is the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 that he will seek to persecute the woman - Israel.

The AoD set up is in Daniel 12:11-12, to last 1335 days until Jesus returns.

View attachment 80751

That's it the third woe is satan being cast down, that's it, there is no more to it. Day 1185 has a meaning bit it's not the Aod You are missing the concept of Dan. 12:11-12. If you read it closer you will see that the 1290 days, the 2300 days and the midst of the week are all speaking of the same day and, imo, that is day 220, when the daily sacrifice is taken away. It is 1290 days from that point to the AoD being set up, so day 220 + 1290 = day 1510 (AoD set up). We are not given a time period of the AoD at all. the Apparently, a lot of people struggle w/ counting time. The 70th week contains 2520 days. The week doesn't go for 1260 days then start over on day 1 again. The 1290 days is from day 1, as is the 1335 days. After day 1260 we have 1261, 1262, 1263, etc. There no is time duration given for the GT just that Christ will shorten it for our (the church's sake). I do not believe the pre-trib theory has any merit. My believe is called post-persecution.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Douggg (he now deleted the post...)

The trumpet itself is not a woe.

Well, well, well.... who do we believe? You or God? Didn't you read the Scripture?

Rev 9:1-12
"(1) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit...
...
...
(12) One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter."

God clearly said that the fifth trumpet was the first woe. And two more woes comes afterward which clearly are the sixth and seventh trumpet. Busted!

 

[Trekson]

View attachment 80755

My diagram shows

1. Woe - at releasing of demons from the pit. (Rev. 9: 12)

2. Woe - Great army through to great Earthquake. (Rev. 11: 14)

3. Woe - The appearing of the Lord Jesus with His angelic army. (Rev. 11: 15 & 19 with 19: 11 - 21)

The bible tells us when the third woe is and that is found in Rev. 12:12. Satan coming down to earth, that's it, that ends the third woe, but that doesn't end the a/c's rule of terror upon the church and the remnant.

 

[Trekson]

Well, well, well.... who do we believe? You or God? Didn't you read the Scripture?

Rev 9:1-12
"(1) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit...
...
...
(12) One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter."

God clearly said that the fifth trumpet was the first woe. And two more woes comes afterward which clearly are the sixth and seventh trumpet. Busted!

Actually, Douggg was correct. It's not the sounding of the trumpet itself that is the first woe, it's what comes "after" the trumpet sounds that is the 1st woe and that would be the events of Rev 9:2-11. The trumpets are announcing the next thing is about to happen. The blowing of the 6th trumpet in Rev. 9:13 isn't the second woe, it's the events of Rev. 9:14-Rev. 11:13 that it announces.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The bible tells us when the third woe is and that is found in Rev. 12:12. Satan coming down to earth, that's it, that ends the third woe, but that doesn't end the a/c's rule of terror upon the church and the remnant.

Huh?

Rev 12:12
(12) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This is not the third woe. This verse is simply a woe pronounced on the inhabitants of the earth, marking the devil’s fall at the cross and his ongoing pursuit of Christians ever since. It has nothing to do with the third woe.

Here is what the third woe actually is:

Rev 11:13-17
(13) And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
(15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(16) And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
(17) Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

The third woe is the seventh trumpet—the last trumpet—when the kingdoms of this world finally become the kingdom of our Lord and Christ. This is the Second Coming of Christ, the ultimate fulfillment of God’s reign.

This is not the time of Satan’s fall to Earth with wrath against believers, as described in Revelation 12:12. That verse is a completely different woe, directed at the inhabitants of the Earth because of Satan’s ongoing rage since the cross.

You and Douggg—who conflates Revelation 12:12 with the third woe is making a major mistake. God’s Word is clear: the third woe is about Christ’s final victory, not Satan’s temporary fury on Earth.

 

[Douggg]

1. Woe - at releasing of demons from the pit. (Rev. 9: 12)

Hi Marilyn,

It does not say that the locust creatures are demons in Revelation 9:3-12. Although they could be.

2. Woe - Great army through to great Earthquake. (Rev. 11: 14)

The second woe does involve a army of 200,000,000 that will kill a third of mankind at the time. But no connection to an earthquake.

The earthquake in Revelation 11:14 is right after the 1260 days of the two witnesses of the first half of the seven years. Differently, the second woe will be near the end of the seven years, when the Euphrates river is dried up (in Revelation 16:12) to release the four angels in Revelation 9:14 bound there.

3. Woe - The appearing of the Lord Jesus with His angelic army. (Rev. 11: 15 & 19 with 19: 11 - 21)

The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is in Revelation 12:12, Satan cast down having great wrath knowing his time is short - a time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 that Satan will try to persecute the woman - Israel.

Revelation 11:15, when the seventh angel sounded his trumpet indicates that the time has come to end Satan's influence of the nations.

Revelation 11:14, John is speaking to the readers of Revelation. He stopped taking about the events involving the time of the two witnesses in Revelation 11:13.

(hey readers of Revelation, listen up)
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

What John is saying in Revelation 11:14 is that the readers of Revelation have already read what the second woe will be. And as they keep reading, it would be revealed what the third woe to the inhabiters will be. Which is in Revelation 12:12.

 

[Trekson]

No, the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is followed by 7 years, the first 7 months of which the Jews in Israel will be burying the bodies, Ezekiel 39:12, cleaning up the land.

If you look at Revelation 20:8-11, there is no 7 years following the destruction of final rebellion of the nations (in red on my chart below). What Gog and Magog means in Revelation 20:8 is that it will be that same nations that took part in the Ezekiel 38-39 attack a thousand years earlier.

View attachment 80752
View attachment 80753

View attachment 80754



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You mentioned Daniel 11:22-23. Those verses have been fulfilled historically by Antiochus IV. Daniel 11 does not transition to the end times until Daniel 11:35. Daniel 11:36 picks up in the end times with the Antichrist as the beast king is in power.

The seven years of Ez. 39 are the first seven years of the millennium, the clean-up from Armageddon. It is not unusual for the OT prophecies to go back and forth in time. This called telescoping prophecy where the prophets saw the mountain tops of events but not the valleys of time between them. So, if you're thinking that because cp. 38 is before cp. 39 that it "must" be fulfilled that way is wrong. Remember that the books were written w/o chapter or verse divisions or w/o punctuation and the translators didn't always get the divisions right. They can even go back and forth in the same chapter. No, your point about Antiochus is incorrect. His time in Dan. is limited to 11:17-20. The account of the a/c begins in 11:21 thru the end of the chapter, imo.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Actually, Douggg was correct.

Nope, both you are wrong.

It's not the sounding of the trumpet itself that is the first woe

It does! The last three trumpets are the three woes, period.

it's what comes "after" the trumpet sounds

Did God say this? Woe comes after trumpet? LOL.

that is the 1st woe and that would be the events of Rev 9:2-11.

Huh? You really don’t make any sense! You’re trying to limit the first woe only to verses 2–11 because you don’t want to acknowledge that the trumpet itself is a woe. LOL! Read carefully:

Revelation 9:1-2
(1) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
(2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Verse 1 clearly says that when the fifth angel sounded, a star was given the key to the bottomless pit. Then verse 2 says, “and he opened the bottomless pit.”

So let me get this straight—you’re claiming that the star being given the key in verse 1 is not part of the woe, and only the act of opening the pit in verse 2 counts as a woe? Even though the text literally says “AND”—linking them together? Wow. That’s reading God’s Word with blinders on.

The trumpet itself is the woe—it doesn’t start after the events happen. Stop trying to carve out pieces to fit your misunderstanding.

Beside, go and grow your backbone and answer the questions about Revelation 12 and the woman earlier. Are you afraid to answer my questions?

 

[Marilyn C]

The bible tells us when the third woe is and that is found in Rev. 12:12. Satan coming down to earth, that's it, that ends the third woe, but that doesn't end the a/c's rule of terror upon the church and the remnant.

When the Satan is cast to the earth with his fallen angels, it is referred to as woe to the inhabitants of the earth, however, that is NOT the 3rd woe. You see there is still 3 1/2 years to go of persecution. (Rev. 12: 14)

The great earthquake is the second woe which is at the end of the trib. (Rev. 11: 13, 16: 17 & 18)

The 3rd woe is when Jesus returns.

 

[Trekson]

Huh?

Rev 12:12
(12) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This is not the third woe. This verse is simply a woe pronounced on the inhabitants of the earth, marking the devil’s fall at the cross and his ongoing pursuit of Christians ever since. It has nothing to do with the third woe.

Here is what the third woe actually is:

Rev 11:13-17
(13) And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
(15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(16) And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
(17) Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

The third woe is the seventh trumpet—the last trumpet—when the kingdoms of this world finally become the kingdom of our Lord and Christ. This is the Second Coming of Christ, the ultimate fulfillment of God’s reign.

This is not the time of Satan’s fall to Earth with wrath against believers, as described in Revelation 12:12. That verse is a completely different woe, directed at the inhabitants of the Earth because of Satan’s ongoing rage since the cross.

You and Douggg—who conflates Revelation 12:12 with the third woe is making a major mistake. God’s Word is clear: the third woe is about Christ’s final victory, not Satan’s temporary fury on Earth.

The third woe is within the list of events announced by the 7th trump. The 7th trump is 'not" the last trump spoken of by Paul. The last trump is in the context of the Feast of Trumpets and it is sounded by God himself, Zech. 9:14. The events of Rev. 11:15 don't happen at that exact point in time. The angels are speaking forward in faith about that which can't happen until after Armageddon.

 

[TribulationSigns]

When the Satan is cast to the earth with his fallen angels, it is referred to as woe to the inhabitants of the earth, however, that is NOT the 3rd woe.

The 3rd woe is when Jesus returns.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

It does not say that the locust creatures are demons in Revelation 9:3-12. Although they could be.


The second woe does involve a army of 200,000,000 that will kill a third of mankind at the time. But no connection to an earthquake.

The earthquake in Revelation 11:14 is right after the 1260 days of the two witnesses of the first half of the seven years. Differently, the second woe will be near the end of the seven years, when the Euphrates river is dried up (in Revelation 16:12) to release the four angels in Revelation 9:14 bound there.


The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is in Revelation 12:12, Satan cast down having great wrath knowing his time is short - a time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 that Satan will try to persecute the woman - Israel.

Revelation 11:15, when the seventh angel sounded his trumpet indicates that the time has come to end Satan's influence of the nations.

Revelation 11:14, John is speaking to the readers of Revelation. He stopped taking about the events involving the time of the two witnesses in Revelation 11:13.

(hey readers of Revelation, listen up)
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

What John is saying in Revelation 11:14 is that the readers of Revelation have already read what the second woe will be. And as they keep reading, it would be revealed what the third woe to the inhabiters will be. Which is in Revelation 12:12.

I agree that the army is not connected to the earthquake but from the great army to the great earthquake is the time span.

I also agree that the great earthquake is after the 2 Witnesses have died then risen to heaven. I see that as at the end of the trib.

I don`t agree that the woe concerning Satan being cast out in the middle of the trib, is the 3rd woe. That would make it before the 2nd one. Jesus` return is the 3rd woe. Nothing greater than that. Look what happens to the army - their flesh comes off their face!!! (Zech. 14: 12)

 

[Trekson]

Nope, both you are wrong.


It does! The last three trumpets are the three woes, period.


Did God say this? Woe comes after trumpet? LOL.



Huh? You really don’t make any sense! You’re trying to limit the first woe only to verses 2–11 because you don’t want to acknowledge that the trumpet itself is a woe. LOL! Read carefully:

Revelation 9:1-2
(1) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
(2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Verse 1 clearly says that when the fifth angel sounded, a star was given the key to the bottomless pit. Then verse 2 says, “and he opened the bottomless pit.”

So let me get this straight—you’re claiming that the star being given the key in verse 1 is not part of the woe, and only the act of opening the pit in verse 2 counts as a woe? Even though the text literally says “AND”—linking them together? Wow. That’s reading God’s Word with blinders on.

The trumpet itself is the woe—it doesn’t start after the events happen. Stop trying to carve out pieces to fit your misunderstanding.

Beside, go and grow your backbone and answer the questions about Revelation 12 and the woman earlier. Are you afraid to answer my questions?

You must not have been at this long enough to see what these things are. Let's see if I can put this in a way you might understand. The seals, trumpets and vials are containers, nothing more and nothing less. The trumpets and bowls are fulfilled in the same way the seals were. First seal was opened, the first rider came, end of seal 1, seal 2 reveals the 2nd rider, etc. The trumpets contain the events that begin 'after" it is sounded, the vials contain the events that happens "after" they are poured. It's kind of Prophecy 101. Read how other folks see it thru google and you will see that I am correct.

 

[Marilyn C]

Thankyou.,

 

[TribulationSigns]

The third woe is within the list of events announced by the 7th trump. The 7th trump is 'not" the last trump spoken of by Paul. The last trump is in the context of the Feast of Trumpets and it is sounded by God himself, Zech. 9:14. The events of Rev. 11:15 don't happen at that exact point in time. The angels are speaking forward in faith about that which can't happen until after Armageddon.

You’re not even being consistent. You keep inventing rules about what counts as a “woe,” then jumping all over the text to make it fit your doctrine.

The problem is simple: the text already defines the woes for us in Book of Revelation 8:13. The angel clearly connects the three woes to the final three trumpets. There’s no need to redefine it, limit it, or detach parts of the trumpet to protect your broken theory.

When Scripture explains itself, we don’t get to override it with our own doctrine. If your interpretation requires rearranging clear statements to survive, that’s not careful exegesis — that’s forcing the text to cooperate with a conclusion you already decided on.

So the “woe, woe, woe” is directly connected to the last three trumpets in Revelation.

Look it up yourself with Revelation 8:13:

• “Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!”

That verse comes after the fourth trumpet. An angel announces three upcoming “woes,” and explicitly ties them to the three remaining trumpets. Period! Selah!

Here’s how Scripture itself defines it:

• 5th Trumpet = 1st Woe
  Revelation 9:12 — “One woe is past…”
• 6th Trumpet = 2nd Woe
  Revelation 11:14 — “The second woe is past…”
• 7th Trumpet = 3rd Woe
  Revelation 11:14 — “…and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.”

The text doesn’t leave this open to speculation like yours! The “woes” are not random events detached from the trumpets — they are specifically the last three trumpet judgments.

So biblically speaking:

• Trumpets 1–4 → not called woes
• Trumpets 5–7 → specifically identified as the three woes

The structure is intentional. Revelation builds in progressive intensity, and the final three trumpets are severe enough to be singled out as “woes” upon the inhabitants of the earth. And this only takes place after Satan is loosened from the Bottomless pit (fifth trumpet). Selah!

 

[Douggg]

that is day 220, when the daily sacrifice is taken away.

day 220 is when the daily sacrifices begin again. Not taken away. day 220 is around 7 months into the start of the seven years.

so day 220 + 1290 = day 1510 (AoD set up).

day 220 is the start up day of the daily sacrifices again. So you have a wrong basis for your calculations.

You are approaching when the AoD is set up from the wrong direction. Instead, subtract 1335 days from the day Jesus returns, day 2520. 2520-1335 = day 1185 of the 7 year that the AoD will be set up.

The great tribulation will last 1335 days and end when Jesus returns.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You must not have been at this long enough to see what these things are. Let's see if I can put this in a way you might understand. The seals, trumpets and vials are containers, nothing more and nothing less. The trumpets and bowls are fulfilled in the same way the seals were. First seal was opened, the first rider came, end of seal 1, seal 2 reveals the 2nd rider, etc. The trumpets contain the events that begin 'after" it is sounded, the vials contain the events that happens "after" they are poured. It's kind of Prophecy 101. Read how other folks see it thru google and you will see that I am correct.

Nonsense. I was a hardcore premillennialist myself for many years, so I’m well aware of what others in that camp believe. I once defended the same framework.

But what changed wasn’t loyalty to a doctrine — it was learning to compare Scripture with Scripture instead of forcing verses to prop up a timeline I had already assumed. When you let the Word interpret itself, some popular charts don’t survive.

So no, this isn’t coming from ignorance of premillennialism. It’s coming from having examined it closely and finding it lacking when tested against the whole counsel of God.

As I already showed from the text itself in my previous post, your position remains refuted.