Do you admit that the gospel cannot change the world?

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soberxp

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Because the issue of faith is simply believing.
If those who claim to believe do something contrary to what they claim to believe,
For example, Israel, in the past, at present, and in the future.
 

lforrest

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Because the issue of faith is simply believing.
If those who claim to believe do something contrary to what they claim to believe,
For example, Israel, in the past, at present, and in the future.
The gospel changes people. Be it one, ten, or a multitude it will accomplish what God set out to do with it. God's word does not return to him void.
 

soberxp

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The gospel changes people. Be it one, ten, or a multitude it will accomplish what God set out to do with it. God's word does not return to him void.
So this is a probability and statistics problem. The larger the base number, the more people are likely to achieve success.
 
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Bob

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Thank you for your post.

Are you despairing because the problem of persuading everyone to turn to God seems insurmountable? Do not give up hope!

God loves you and asks that you carry out His work, no matter insignificant it might appear. Think of all the ordinary people in the Bible who had a major impact on events because they were in the right place, at the right time, and did the right thing.

God is in charge of the future of the world. His purposes will not be thwarted although it might seem we are going backwards in our own lifetimes.

Peace be with you!
 

Aunty Jane

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The gospel changes people. Could the people change the world?
Since “the world” is the people who occupy it...the world (planet) cannot change itself, but we can change our attitudes and conduct if we want to. We are all free moral agents.

The Earth was designed to be our permanent home....with everything we would ever need provided abundantly and in perpetuity...never ending. But we lost it due to the abuse of that free will. This turned the gift into a curse.

Who is robbing us of a better world.....? Wicked and greedy humans are.
Could we change the world? Yes we could, if everyone implemented just one command of God...to “treat others as you would like them to treat you”....that would eliminate wars and domestic troubles....and crime and violence, which is often driven by the opposites of wealth and poverty.....the rich always want more and the poor want what the rich have. Greed is never satisfied no matter which side of that fense we sit.

It would mean that those with much, shared with those who have little...and it would mean patience and self control with those who do not think the way we do about anything that causes conflict.

Could that ever happen? Yes!...but not unless you eliminate all those who cannot or will not implement that principle. In the end, that is what God will do....he will weed out those who have no interest in anyone but themselves, and bless those who want to bless others. He will reward the faithful who stick to his laws and standards no matter what “the world” is doing.

Ready or not, we are about to face the final curtain coming down on this satanic world.....only those on God’s side will remain standing, once the war is over. They will already be found “doing the will” of the Father. (Matt 7:21-23)
 

ScottA

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But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”​

That is the change.
 

lforrest

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So this is a probability and statistics problem. The larger the base number, the more people are likely to achieve success.
If it were about numbers Jesus' ministry would never have survived the first century. The quality of the message is proven true in the hearts of those who will come to believe. Likewise the testimony of the messengers is proven true when they are obedient to Jesus Christ in forsaking the world even unto death.
 

lforrest

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The gospel changes people. Could the people change the world?
The world publicly presented to you by those in power is not friendly to Christianity. I'm convinced the real warriors of the faith are unknown to most except to the powers of heaven and hell. They don't gain recognition in this life, and they are changing the world.
 
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soberxp

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I could make an argument that people who believed the gospel and acted accordingly have changed the world over the last 2000 years.
Really? In China, we were taught from a young age that people in ancient times had lives far worse than ours, as if they lived like they were in hell, while we are living in paradise by comparison.

Is that the kind of change you're referring to?
 

soberxp

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Thank you for your post.

Are you despairing because the problem of persuading everyone to turn to God seems insurmountable? Do not give up hope!
I believe the role of the wolf among the sheep has significantly misled the world, causing people to deviate greatly in their understanding of God's word. The so-called Christian nations appear more like wolves in the eyes of others, which is a tremendous blasphemy against the Christian community.

And this damage shows no signs of healing.


God loves you and asks that you carry out His work, no matter insignificant it might appear. Think of all the ordinary people in the Bible who had a major impact on events because they were in the right place, at the right time, and did the right thing.
Of course, God already shows his love to me,
But how about me and others.


God is in charge of the future of the world. His purposes will not be thwarted although it might seem we are going backwards in our own lifetimes.

Peace be with you!
God only is in the charge of his will and his word,
Human beings is in charge of the future of the world.
 

Lambano

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Really? In China, we were taught from a young age that people in ancient times had lives far worse than ours, as if they lived like they were in hell, while we are living in paradise by comparison.

Is that the kind of change you're referring to?
5279012-Thomas-Hobbes-Quote-Life-in-the-state-of-nature-is-solitary-poor.jpg
 

Lambano

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I believe the role of the wolf among the sheep has significantly misled the world, causing people to deviate greatly in their understanding of God's word. The so-called Christian nations appear more like wolves in the eyes of others, which is a tremendous blasphemy against the Christian community.

And this damage shows no signs of healing.
I can't disagree with that.
 

Bob

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I believe the role of the wolf among the sheep has significantly misled the world, causing people to deviate greatly in their understanding of God's word. The so-called Christian nations appear more like wolves in the eyes of others, which is a tremendous blasphemy against the Christian community.

And this damage shows no signs of healing.



Of course, God already shows his love to me,
But how about me and others.



God only is in the charge of his will and his word,
Human beings is in charge of the future of the world.
Thank you for responding.

Psalm 2:
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lordshall have them in derision.

The Book of Esther also tells that ultimately God is in charge of the world, and human affairs, although there are times when it appears otherwise.

Peace.
 
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Aunty Jane

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I believe the role of the wolf among the sheep has significantly misled the world, causing people to deviate greatly in their understanding of God's word. The so-called Christian nations appear more like wolves in the eyes of others, which is a tremendous blasphemy against the Christian community.

And this damage shows no signs of healing.
When I see the way “Christianity” is practiced in the world; in the wide range of denominations that have arisen over the centuries, it is good to see how the so called “Christian nations” conduct themselves, especially from the viewpoint of those nations who are not “Christian”. What “witness” is being given?
How are they any better than the pagans? And how can they go to war with fellow “Christians” of another nation? (1 John 4:20-21)

And when you also understand who is the controlling influence behind all nations, it is not difficult to see who is in control of the world, which is so clearly out of control.

Can the true God be found in all that disunity and chaos? Is he proud of those so called “Christian nations”?
In what way do they demonstrate their Christianity by their conduct? After all, talk is cheap...anyone can claim to be anything they like, but the proof is in what they do....not what they say.

Realising who is ruling the world, gives us choices that misinformation cannot overreach.
Who does the Bible say is ruling mankind...?
1 John 5:19...
“We know we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.”
This identifies out one single entity....satan the devil.

How did the devil get to be the ruler of this world? God gave him rulership of the human race so that we could experience first hand the folly of rejecting the Creator as our ruler, in favour of a lying pretender....

Luke 4:5-7...
“And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”

The devil could not offer Jesus what was not in his possession...and Jesus did not dispute his claim.

So what conditions can we expect in a world ruled by God’s adversary? Look back at our history on this planet and see that our advances in technology, whilst providing a measure of improvement in the standard of living for many, still operates on the backs of those who live in poverty. All technology that is used for good, is also harnessed for purely evil purposes. In fact much of the evil is masked by appearances of good.
The devil lives up to his reputation of appearing to be “an angel of light”.

Why has the human race suffered for so long under this evil rulership? God is proving a point, not just to us in Earth time, but to the devil and his angels in Universal time. What seems to be taking too long from a human perspective, is not long at all in the realm where the most dangerous rebels reside.

It is they who are the prime targets of God’s patience. We were taken captive by Satan right from the beginning through deception, and by rights, God could have simply eliminated those rebels and started again with new specimens.....but issues were raised that could not be so easily dismissed.

Satan did not challenge God’s power.....he challenged his Sovereignty...the right to set limits to the freedom he gave them. Freedom without limits is a dangerous thing, so from the outset, God set reasonable limits and in his wisdom, withheld certain knowledge from his human children, for their own good. A knowledge of evil would not benefit them in any way, and if they did not know evil, they would not ever think to practice it.

Imagine living in a world where no evil exists! ?

Satan saw an opening to drive a wedge between the Creator and his human children. He lied to the woman about the penalty for breaking God’s law; stealing something that God had claimed as his exclusive property.
By causing a separation from God’s direct rulership, the death penalty placed them on death row (so to speak) so that in their sinful state, they were now alienated from direct contact with him. A mediator was appointed to facilitate communication with him. That mediator is identified as Jesus Christ. (1 Tim 2:5-6)
What a wonderful provision that was for those who sought the true God....to keep in close contact with him.

So even though humans were now at the mercy of the one they chose to obey, God did not abandon the human race, but chose rather to use the rebellion as an object lesson for all of his children...both humans and angels.

By means of his mediator, human representatives, along with angelic messengers, God would direct matters for those who were not confined to the influence of the devil....those who sought the true God in spite of the conduct of those around them. The first of these was Abel....the only righteous man in existence at the time, who was cruelly murdered by his own brother out of jealousy. But he set an example for others to follow. And follow, they did.....men like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua and many more noted in Hebrews 11.

This proves that the devil cannot deceive all mankind....that some, out of their own hearts would reject the evil around them...and seek to serve the interests of the true God in righteousness, amid much unrighteousness.

The upshot of all of that is that God will finally eliminate those who chose to side with the devil, emulating his desire for war, violence, immortality and bloodshed....but to “save” those who chose to side with Him, by rejecting what the world around them was treating as “normal” behavior.

What do we see down through history that the devil has made “normal” behavior?
Support for their nation’s sovereignty rather than God’s.....acceptance of heinous weaponry (especially since the 20th century) used in national conflicts that result in mass destruction of property, and the deaths of innocent people as mere collateral damage, over issues of national superiority. Whose side does God take when all are breaking his commands.

Humans are proving every day which “god” they serve, by their own choices.
Jesus said we are to be “no part of the world” (John 18:36)...for obvious reasons.....we cannot support its evil rulership, it’s ungodly conduct, or its nationalistic pride. Selfishness governs everything they do. Imposing their will on others to carry out evil.

We will all be caught in the act of being ourselves...the person God sees, not the persons we imagine ourselves to be, by accepting the devil’s faulty reasoning on what is acceptable behavior for a disciple of Christ...the “Prince of Peace”.

The devil’s counterfeit “Christianity” floods the world, with false disciples supporting bloodshed and immorality....and watering down God’s word to suit themselves.

Life on earth for redeemed mankind will be a return to the conditions that God provided for the first humans in Eden....only God can change the world, and return us to Paradise, by eliminating those who want to perpetuate the conditions that they have come to accept as “normal”......they never were normal, and never will be again. Thank God!
 

Gottservant

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Because the issue of faith is simply believing.
If those who claim to believe do something contrary to what they claim to believe,
For example, Israel, in the past, at present, and in the future.
I don't get this question.

The Gospel converts souls, while they are in the world. So while it is not the priority that the world change, by extension (of those who are in the world) the Gospel does change it.

The thing to be on guard against, is changing the Gospel to suit the world - agree?
 
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soberxp

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I don't get this question.

The Gospel converts souls, while they are in the world. So while it is not the priority that the world change, by extension (of those who are in the world) the Gospel does change it.

The thing to be on guard against, is changing the Gospel to suit the world - agree?
The gospel should change us, but we cannot change the world. Therefore, the gospel cannot change the world. Even those who have heard the gospel might be changed by the world, and then they might go on to change the true meaning of the gospel.
 

Jericho

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Do you admit that the gospel cannot change the world?

Hasn't it already done just that, and for the better? Contrast the world before and after Christianity. It was a much more violent world prior to Christianity, with little room for compassion. Compare and contrast Christian nations (at least culturally) to non-Christian nations. They have fewer freedoms, less prosperity, more chaos, etc. The world is still in a fallen state, granted, but Christianity has been a light to the world.
 
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