Time of the End and Knowledge shall be Increased.

[soberxp]

All these things are part of the Revelation, the revealing of the mystery/secret in the last days, which encompasses the whole New Testament era. Daniel's prophecy referred to a distant time when Christ would come and bring that Revelation. Daniel's prophesy was fulfilled in Christ going away and sending the comforter/consoler that reveals this mystery and shows us all things that are to come.

John 16:13-15

• "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
• He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
• All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

Just as we read in Revelation that the Spirit was come to show John things that were to come, and God reiterated it was to show His servants things that were to come. This is the mystery being revealed, and the knowledge of God's plans being revealed. To one revealed today, to another revealed 2 years ago, and to another revealed tomorrow. It shows us that the stars falling and the moon not giving her light is the messengers of the church (Revelation 2:5), not physical stars falling to earth. Showing us that the great city Babylon falling is the unfaithful church in captivity, not the world system. Showing us that the two witnesses of Revelation being killed are the faithful messengers establishing truth (Deuteronomy 19:15) within that church, not Elijah and Moses. Showing us that the famine is of hearing the word of God, not starvation in Africa. Or that the great harlot decked out like kingdom royalty is actually the false church who has sold herself for gain, and not worldwide economics. ...and so on and so forth. The Mystery is revealed when knowledge is increased. Israel, to whom Daniel prophesied with premature zeal, sought after self-righteousness, physical freedom from the Roman government, and signs of the predicted messiah come to set them free from the rule of the Romans, but received none of it. Because their methodology of interpretation was flawed. Like the Premillennial dispensationalism and Preterism. Daniel's prophecy remained sealed up to them (in part). Because the language of Scripture was designed so that only those who received the Spirit of truth by grace, could have this knowledge.

It seems that your viewpoint has also partially confirmed my observations and has resolved the problem that has been bothering me for a long time.
So, endure to the end.
This is the greatest tribulations.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are sadly defying the gifts of the spirit. You had better pray to God for forgiveness because you are denying Jesus sending the Holy Spirit in John 16:13-14.

Sigh... you lacks understanding what the gifts of God are really about:

Listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7–11

1. Word of Wisdom – supernatural wisdom to apply God’s truth.
2. Word of Knowledge – insight or knowledge revealed by God to know His mysteries.
3. Faith – extraordinary trust in God beyond normal faith.
4. Gifts of Healing – ability used by God to bring spiritual healing.
5. Working of Miracles – supernatural acts demonstrating God’s power.
6. Prophecy – speaking God’s message to instruct or warn.
7. Discerning of Spirits – ability to recognize whether something is from God, evil spirits, or human origin.
8. Different Kinds of Tongues – speaking in different known languages other than your own given by the Spirit.
9. Interpretation of Tongues – interprets the message of tongues with different known language.

The Word of Knowledge has nothing to do with your latest iphone. It is to know and understand the mystery of God concerning His Kingdom. Not man-made objects! Selah!

1 Corinthians 12:11

• “But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.”

The problem is you interpret the "Word of Knowledge" as human advancement in science or technology. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit does not give the gift of knowledge to improve computers, medicine, or engineering. The context of Scripture shows it is about revealing spiritual truth—especially the mysteries of God’s kingdom. You misunderstood big time! The context of Scripture shows it is about revealing spiritual truth - especially the mysteries of God's kingdom:

1 Corinthians 12:8
(8) For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

The entire chapter is about spiritual gifts used in the church, not technological discovery. The knowledge comes from the Spirit, not from human research.

Col 2:2-3
(2) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
(3) In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

So the knowledge given by God has everything to do with:

• Christ
• the gospel
• the kingdom of God
• the mystery of salvation
• prophetic truth

Not Google! Not iPhone! Not Tesla! Not AI!

Here is an example of Spiritual knowledge that Christ spoke of truths hidden from many but revealed to believers:

Mat 13:11
(11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Clearly, God did not give you this gift of knowledge because you are being brainwashed to believe your so-called gift of knowledge has to do with technological progress, scientific discovry, or human intelligence. No, The Holy Spirit give understanding the mysteries of God that Daniel was taking about. It is about insight into Scripture and the kingdom of God.

So it is YOU who are foolish to believe a lie.

 

[rwb]

Knowledge of Daniel 12:4 has NOTHING to do with technologies like many people like you think.

John 16:13-14

• "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
• He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

In other words, because Christ died, the mystery that was sealed in the Book would now be made manifest or made known. The Lamb of Judah was the only one "Qualified" (because He is without sin) to bring the Revelation of this book to us, via the Spirit. Thus the Revelation of the Book is unsealed for us. Selah! Through His death, Resurrection, and sending of the Spirit of Revealing. The word of the Book kept secret is what Paul also spoke about in Romans.

Romans 16:25-26

• "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the Revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
• But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"

A Mystery (secret) is that which was kept sealed that we not understand. Now being manifest is Christ coming and making it known by (symbolically) unsealing the Book. This is the Book that the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed [nikao], (conquered or overcome), to loose the seals and open, that the truth of this mystery is made known to us.

This Book simply illustrates the "Revelation" of the Word of God. In other words, God is now revealing things that were before not understood in scripture. As was illustrated also in the Book of Daniel

Daniel 12:4

• "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and Seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

This Book signifies the revelation of God, the prophecy of God that was kept from being understood until the time of the end, when the seal would be loosed and the servants of God would "then understand" the secret or mystery during the New Testament period. Selah!

Not about having the latest computer, electric cars or iphone.

Exactly! And many also think knowledge of God comes from world news! So, they interpret Bible prophecy according to world events.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Exactly! And many also think knowledge of God comes from world news! So, they interpret Bible prophecy according to world events.

Or from the book of Josephus. And those who insist on physical and carnal interpretations—pushing temple/city of 70 AD, literal angels, physical armies, two men spew fire out their mouths, physical frogs, or woman sitting on literal seven mountains, hails with weight of a talent, etc. They completely miss the point of the text.

Such interpretations reveal a lack of spiritual discernment, a lack of the wisdom of Christ, and a lack of true knowledge of the Scriptures. Period.

When people refuse to compare Scripture with Scripture and instead force everything into a crude literalism, they only expose their inability to understand the spiritual language God uses in prophecy.

 

[Rockerduck]

Sigh... you lacks understanding what the gifts of God are really about:

Listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7–11

1. Word of Wisdom – supernatural wisdom to apply God’s truth.
2. Word of Knowledge – insight or knowledge revealed by God to know His mysteries.
3. Faith – extraordinary trust in God beyond normal faith.
4. Gifts of Healing – ability used by God to bring spiritual healing.
5. Working of Miracles – supernatural acts demonstrating God’s power.
6. Prophecy – speaking God’s message to instruct or warn.
7. Discerning of Spirits – ability to recognize whether something is from God, evil spirits, or human origin.
8. Different Kinds of Tongues – speaking in different known languages other than your own given by the Spirit.
9. Interpretation of Tongues – interprets the message of tongues with different known language.

The Word of Knowledge has nothing to do with your latest iphone. It is to know and understand the mystery of God concerning His Kingdom. Not man-made objects! Selah!

1 Corinthians 12:11

• “But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.”

The problem is you interpret the "Word of Knowledge" as human advancement in science or technology. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit does not give the gift of knowledge to improve computers, medicine, or engineering. The context of Scripture shows it is about revealing spiritual truth—especially the mysteries of God’s kingdom. You misunderstood big time! The context of Scripture shows it is about revealing spiritual truth - especially the mysteries of God's kingdom:

1 Corinthians 12:8
(8) For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

The entire chapter is about spiritual gifts used in the church, not technological discovery. The knowledge comes from the Spirit, not from human research.

Col 2:2-3
(2) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
(3) In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

So the knowledge given by God has everything to do with:

• Christ
• the gospel
• the kingdom of God
• the mystery of salvation
• prophetic truth

Not Google! Not iPhone! Not Tesla! Not AI!

Here is an example of Spiritual knowledge that Christ spoke of truths hidden from many but revealed to believers:

Mat 13:11
(11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Clearly, God did not give you this gift of knowledge because you are being brainwashed to believe your so-called gift of knowledge has to do with technological progress, scientific discovry, or human intelligence. No, The Holy Spirit give understanding the mysteries of God that Daniel was taking about. It is about insight into Scripture and the kingdom of God.

So it is YOU who are foolish to believe a lie.

I have 7 of those gifts you listed in 1 Corinthians 12. What's your point. John 16:13-4 says the Holy Spirit will speak to you and He does. I've healed people, The Holy Spirit glorifies Christ. What your point with me. I tell my gifts and you POO POO them. You need to repent.

 

[Rockerduck]

Exactly! And many also think knowledge of God comes from world news! So, they interpret Bible prophecy according to world events.

Garbage. The gift of Knowledge give you many gifts of the Holy Spirit and knowledge of the deeper things of God. You get visions and dreams and prophesy. I don't watch TV, its a window into the god of this world.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I have 7 of those gifts you listed in 1 Corinthians 12. What's your point. John 16:13-4 says the Holy Spirit will speak to you and He does. I've healed people, The Holy Spirit glorifies Christ. What your point with me. I tell my gifts and you POO POO them. You need to repent.

Christ gave you seven gifts? And you have ability to physical heal people? I am sorry you are seriously deceived.

 

[grafted branch]

Exactly! And many also think knowledge of God comes from world news! So, they interpret Bible prophecy according to world events.

Everyone uses world news to interpret scripture except for maybe some full preterist. Your Amil, right, how else can you know when Satan will be loosed? The Bible doesn’t give you a date, you need to look at secular worldly information and compare that to what the scriptures say in order to determine where we are eschatologically.

How about trying to figure out if the great falling away has occurred or not. We have to look at current news on where the church’s stand on various issues to know. This also means interpreting scripture using secular information.

 

[Jay Ross]

The Bible doesn’t give you a date, you need to look at secular worldly information and compare that to what the scriptures say in order to determine where we are eschatologically.

Actually, the Bible does give us a date of when the end of the world, as we know, it will happen. Secular worldly historical information only confirms that the End Time prophetical prophecies have happened.

As an exercise we can start with when Adam was created and create a chronological timeline from Adam's creation that links directly with when the world as we know it will end, without even leaving the Old Testament which when divided by seven, provide us with the duration of a Generation/Age when major events will take place. The end of this present world will end by God given prophecy 4,000 years from when God's presences first filled Solomon's temple.

Around this same time that God's presence filled Solomon's temple, the solemn sign confirmation covenant of Genesis 15 occurred to confirm that in the distant future Abraham's descendants would receive their inheritance/possession of the whole earth in the distant future. Israel's possession of the prescribed land as given in Genesis 15 to confirm that they would eventually inherit the whole world in the distant future was taken from them after the death of Solomon and they were only left with the Land of Canaan which God promised to Abraham that they, Israel, would have possession of for a period of time before they would be scattered throughout all of the earth.

96 years after the lesson of the Fig tree is learned/fulfilled in 1948, God would begin gathering Israelites to Himself, once more, where they will be living scattered throughout the whole earth and that He will plant them in His fertile Soil for Israel and teach them about the religion based on what the rock that comes down out of heaven at this time states and that this religion will become the largest mountain in all of the earth. At this time God also enters into a Covenant of Peace with Israel and through the prophecy found in Isaiah 24:21-22 he will remove the kings of the earth and the heavenly host beasts from the face of the earth and imprison them for many days in a pit to await the time of their final judgement/punishment.

Now the Summer Season of the harvest of souls into God's Everlasting Kingdom will begin around the year 2045 AD and will last for 1,000 years without hindrance from Satan, the Beasts of Daniel 7 and the Little Horn plus the Judged Kings of the earth after they are all released for the Little While Period to do their worst before they are finally punished for their sins against God.

It is after this that we will see the coming of the Lord with all of the heavenly host to judge all of the peoples of the earth.

Shalom

 

[Marilyn C]

In Hebrew and Greek the word ` Day, ` refers to a period of time and a specific day. Thus context is important to know which.

1. The Day of Christ. (Phil. 1: 6 - 10) 1 Cor. 1: 7 & 8)

This period of time is not only the first in chronological order of fulfilment, but is the greatest in importance in the Divine predestinations. Each reference relates entirely and exclusively to the Church, the Body of Christ, in the specific time-slot identified with the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. It signifies completion of the highest of God`s purposes, the supreme expression of Divine revelation.

All other expressions of His ordinations are dependent on its completion.

2. The Day of the LORD. (1 Thess. 5: 2 - 9, 2 Peter 3: 10)

This has to do with Israel and the nations and is invariably connected with the wrath of God poured out in judgment on an unbelieving world. It refers to that period of time from the termination of `The Day of Christ,` through the tribulation and millennium and terminating with the creation of the new heavens and earth which precludes `The Day of God. `

3. The Day of God. (2 Peter 3: 11 & 12)

The Day when God will purge and purify the heavens and the earth by fire. Peter is the only one who uses the phrase, `The Day of God.` (It concludes `The Day of the LORD.` )

 

[Marilyn C]

 

[soberxp]

View attachment 80853

The Ascension of Christ+2000+7 almost 2008.10.10
But I think humans won't be able to survive after 2077. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Your Amil, right, how else can you know when Satan will be loosed? The Bible doesn’t give you a date.

You are correct. The Bible does not tell us exactly when the last of the elect will be sealed (Revelation 7:1–4) and when Satan will be loosed. However, Christ did teach that believers would begin to recognize the signs indicating that His return is near.

For example, He warned about the “abomination of desolation” standing where it ought not—within the Church—signaling a great apostasy. Christ also gave the parable of the fig tree in Matthew 24. When you see the fig tree and all the trees begin to put forth leaves, you know that summer is near.

In the same way, when we begin to see the things described in the Olivet Discourse—particularly the falling away and the desolation of the Church—we can understand that Christ’s return is right at the door. That is it! We do not need exact dates; the signs themselves are enough for the faithful to recognize the "little season."

you need to look at secular worldly information

No, that is not what Christ said.

and compare that to what the scriptures say in order to determine where we are eschatologically.

No, that is not what Christ said. You are looking in the wrong place. Scripture never tells us to watch geopolitical events in the Middle East, or to wait for Gog and Magog, or for some Antichrist to sign a supposed seven-year peace treaty so that the rapture can happen. That entire framework is imposed on the text.

Christ told us to watch for the signs He described—especially the apostasy and desolation connected to His Church. Those are the things believers are to discern. Wars in the Middle East and speculative peace treaties are not the indicators Christ gave. Sorry, but that scenario is simply not found in Scripture.

How about trying to figure out if the great falling away has occurred or not.

Falling away from faith in the Church where the false prophets and christs rule, yes!

We have to look at current news on where the church’s stand on various issues to know.

Is that how Christ told us to recognize the abomination of desolation in the holy place—by watching the world news? No.


Christ did not direct believers to monitor political reports or global headlines to understand His warnings. He told us to discern what is happening in the holy place, which concerns the condition of the Church. The focus is spiritual discernment, not tracking worldly events.

Looking to the news to interpret prophecy misses the very place Christ told us to watch.

This also means interpreting scripture using secular information.

False. Scripture must interpret itself. Do not let secular news or worldly reports dictate the meaning of God’s Word. Christ gave us His signs to watch within the Church, not in the headlines of this world.

 

[rwb]

Everyone uses world news to interpret scripture except for maybe some full preterist. Your Amil, right, how else can you know when Satan will be loosed? The Bible doesn’t give you a date, you need to look at secular worldly information and compare that to what the scriptures say in order to determine where we are eschatologically.

How about trying to figure out if the great falling away has occurred or not. We have to look at current news on where the church’s stand on various issues to know. This also means interpreting scripture using secular information.

Christ wasn't speaking of seeing things that are happening in this world, we know the Kingdom of God has come, and that Christ shall come again by seeing things happening within the church. The things of this world are as they have always been and shall always be to lesser and greater extant as time goes on. If you look at secular worldly things to understand and compare that with the Bible, you might as well allow the 'Left Behind' series based on fiction to give you understanding. No doubt you'll be looking for people to suddenly disappear as your imagination runs wild.

When Christ tells us to behold the fig tree and all the trees, He didn't mean that when we see them begin to bloom, we know His coming again is near and even at the door. The trees, first the fig (Israel) and then the rest (Gentiles) represent the church of Jew & Gentile believers together in the Kingdom of God. Christ tells the disciples that when they see the church beginning to blossom, Israelites being eternally saved, as well as Gentiles also being saved, then they would know the Kingdom of God was near and that preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God has come by the power of the Word preached through the Spirit sent from Christ.

Matthew 24:32 (KJV) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Matthew 24:33 (KJV) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Mark 13:28-29 (KJV) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

Luke 21:29 (KJV) And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luke 21:30-31 (KJV) When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

That's why Christ says "this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." Every generation from the first century to the generation alive when the last trumpet sounds shall know the Kingdom of God has come to mankind, and entrance for all who shall be saved have entered into the Kingdom of God that is NOW a spiritual Kingdom, "Ye must be born again."

How could the first century disciples or any disciple of Christ know the spiritual Kingdom of God that Christ came to earth with was being built as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached unto all nations, if there is no sign of spiritual life found in Her? By looking at the church, we (faithful saints) can know her health and understand through individual congregations that are and have fallen away from The True Faith. When the church on this earth becomes spiritually dead, there is no longer new life or any life, but only darkness then we, who are wise and looking, will know the time for this world is short.

 

[rwb]

You are correct. The Bible does not tell us exactly when the last of the elect will be sealed (Revelation 7:1–4) and when Satan will be loosed. However, Christ did teach that believers would begin to recognize the signs indicating that His return is near.

For example, He warned about the “abomination of desolation” standing where it ought not—within the Church—signaling a great apostasy. Christ also gave the parable of the fig tree in Matthew 24. When you see the fig tree and all the trees begin to put forth leaves, you know that summer is near.

In the same way, when we begin to see the things described in the Olivet Discourse—particularly the falling away and the desolation of the Church—we can understand that Christ’s return is right at the door. That is it! We do not need exact dates; the signs themselves are enough for the faithful to recognize the "little season."



No, that is not what Christ said.



No, that is not what Christ said. You are looking in the wrong place. Scripture never tells us to watch geopolitical events in the Middle East, or to wait for Gog and Magog, or for some Antichrist to sign a supposed seven-year peace treaty so that the rapture can happen. That entire framework is imposed on the text.

Christ told us to watch for the signs He described—especially the apostasy and desolation connected to His Church. Those are the things believers are to discern. Wars in the Middle East and speculative peace treaties are not the indicators Christ gave. Sorry, but that scenario is simply not found in Scripture.



Falling away from faith in the Church where the false prophets and christs rule, yes!


Is that how Christ told us to recognize the abomination of desolation in the holy place—by watching the world news? No.


Christ did not direct believers to monitor political reports or global headlines to understand His warnings. He told us to discern what is happening in the holy place, which concerns the condition of the Church. The focus is spiritual discernment, not tracking worldly events.

Looking to the news to interpret prophecy misses the very place Christ told us to watch.



False. Scripture must interpret itself. Do not let secular news or worldly reports dictate the meaning of God’s Word. Christ gave us His signs to watch within the Church, not in the headlines of this world.

Some believe the "abomination of desolation" is limited to the first century, and surprise, surprise, they begin to embrace the doctrine of Preterists (full or partial). The abomination that makes desolate can be, has been, and is found in every single congregation of this world that has embraced another gospel, lying doctrine, false teachers/preachers. We're repeatedly warned to WATCH what is happening within the congregations of this world, and when we understand (know) abomination that will most assuredly lead the church to desolation, we should flee from that congregation and return to the Holy place/mountain of God.

 

[grafted branch]

96 years after the lesson of the Fig tree is learned/fulfilled in 1948, God would begin gathering Israelites to Himself, once more, where they will be living scattered throughout the whole earth and that He will plant them in His fertile Soil for Israel and teach them about the religion based on what the rock that comes down out of heaven at this time states and that this religion will become the largest mountain in all of the earth. At this time God also enters into a Covenant of Peace with Israel and through the prophecy found in Isaiah 24:21-22 he will remove the kings of the earth and the heavenly host beasts from the face of the earth and imprison them for many days in a pit to await the time of their final judgement/punishment.

Do you have any evidence where someone predicted the significance of the year 1948 prior to it occurring? For example, is there any written record of someone, let’s say in the 1800’s, who used the Bible to predict exactly what took place in 1948, or is it only after the fact that people are able to come up with ways that the Bible predicted the year 1948?

 

[grafted branch]

False. Scripture must interpret itself. Do not let secular news or worldly reports dictate the meaning of God’s Word. Christ gave us His signs to watch within the Church, not in the headlines of this world.

Not true. Jesus gives us the example of how to determine if something is fulfilled or not in Luke 7:20-22, we can’t use scripture alone for this. We are to see and hear what is literally happening and compare that to the scriptures in order to determine what’s being fulfilled. Jesus didn’t tell John’s disciples to compare scripture with scripture or even His spoken words at that time with scripture, no, He said to compare what they saw and heard, the news of the events that were occurring, that is what was to be compared to scripture.

So, unless you think all has already been fulfilled, we must compare the extra Biblical events that have occurred and are occurring in our day to the scriptures, that is the example given to us by Jesus. Comparing spiritual with spiritual is used to understand what the written word means, comparing news with scripture is used to determine what’s fulfilled. A person who simply ignores a historian such as Josephus is clearly ignoring the Biblical method of determining what’s fulfilled.

That is how we are to interpret the scriptures. If scripture must interpret scripture when it comes to determining whether something is fulfilled or not then you should be able to come up with a scripture that explains why Jesus didn’t tell John’s disciples to use that method alone.



Luke 7:20 When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? 21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. 22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

 

[grafted branch]

When the church on this earth becomes spiritually dead, there is no longer new life or any life, but only darkness then we, who are wise and looking, will know the time for this world is short.

What is your source of information on the condition of what’s happening in the church today? Is it only from the Bible or is it secular? If the church has fallen away then the information from the fallen away church itself is secular.

 

[soberxp]

What is your source of information on the condition of what’s happening in the church today? Is it only from the Bible or is it secular? If the church has fallen away then the information from the fallen away church itself is secular.

Have you not noticed that worldly things have already permeated the church?

 

[grafted branch]

Have you not noticed that worldly things have already permeated the church?

Well, I haven’t physically visited very many churches so I can’t say for absolute certainty without trusting others who have. I can look at statements of faith over the internet but they don’t really tell me what’s going on. I have gone to a few churches where their statements of faith look good but when I visited them it seemed they were more lenient than what appeared online.

Again if a church has fallen away then even their statements of faith would be secular information. Do you rely on secular information to determine what has permeated the church or do you know it from firsthand experience?