Should we as Christians support the State of Israel ?

[amigo de christo]

Blessed be this pastor....Here is an exemption:

politics and religoin never does mix or bode well . Always compromise is made .

 

[Aunty Jane]

God lets us learn from our mistakes, but the point is, it wasn't God's will that they turn to Hagar to produce the promised son.

We can also learn from the mistakes of others.....God used this “mistake” to teach us something.

Isaac was the son of promise. Ishmael was the son of the sin nature flesh. Each represented a future covenant.

Yes, as Paul said.....
He spoke of these two women symbolically....Sarah and Hagar....
“It is written that Abraham acquired two sons, one by the servant girl and one by the free woman; but the one by the servant girl was actually born in the manner of flesh, the other by the free woman through a promise. These things stand as a symbolic drama; for these women mean two covenants, the one from mount Sinai, which brings forth children for slavery, and which is Hagar. . . . .she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written: ‘Be glad, you barren woman who does not bear children; break out and cry aloud, you woman who does not have childbirth pains; because the children of the desolate woman number more than those of her who has the husband.’
Now we, brothers, are children belonging to the promise the same as Isaac was. But just as then the one born in the manner of flesh began persecuting the one born in the manner of spirit, so also now. Nevertheless, what does the Scripture say? ‘Cast out the servant girl and her son, for by no means shall the son of the servant girl inherit with the son of the free woman.’ Wherefore, brothers, we are children, not of a servant girl, but of the free woman.” (Gal 4:22-31)

Each woman represented a covenant....the old representing Israel in slavery to the Law covenant, whereas the Christian disciples of Jesus were the children of the new covenant...now free of the Law.

The religious Jews (as opposed to national Israelis) of today are still in slavery to the old covenant and the Law, and just as Ishmael persecuted his younger brother, so the Jews persecuted the offspring of the free woman...the “Jerusalem above”....”heavenly Jerusalem, not the earthly Jerusalem....Jesus’ disciples.

"So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."....?
Those stuck in an earthly interpretation of “Jerusalem” have no idea what the “heavenly Jerusalem” is and what it’s role is in the fulfilment of God’s purpose. (Heb 12:22-23)

 

[amigo de christo]

The mega prosperity false preaching churches are occupied by Republicans.
Shameful.

There is no party anymore for none-left wingers to join.

seeker f riendly judge not correct not destroyed .
But boy it sure did create mega churches of b oth the right and the left .
And ecumencism will finish the job and end them all ON the day of the LORD .
the decieved false religoins
the decieved within christendom , WILL MERGE under a love that will end THEM ALL ON THE DAY of the LORD .
oh they never gonna agree on politics
but they are gonna agree on the LETS AGREE to DISA GREE and JUST GET ALONG and lovey do .
ITS ALL GONNA END THEM ALL .
we should never have altered one word in them scrips .
WE should never have altered one th ing about that pattern they left for us .
AND the moment they did , IT bEGAN to bring only MORE LEAVEN IN .
Judge not correct not
IS the religious version
OF THE VICITIM card . AND THAT DOES NOTHI NG but silence TRUTH which only gives rise FOR EVIL TO TAKE OVER .
Christen dom IS DONE , for the most part its tanked .
GET THEM IN THE BIBLE . flee any scholar , flee their hermes and etc
F LEE their koine greek . ITS ALL being used for an a genda . A BAD ONE .

 

[doctrox]

Should we support the state of Israel or not as Christians? Thank you

...or any Caesarian "state"? You're joking, right?

1) Ppl do not know who or what is Israel.

2) I’ve repeatedly encountered a particular brand of Dispensationalism (with its marketing vehicle, the “rapture”) that has formed the next phase of the ongoing synthesis between the truth of Biblical Christianity, and the “Jewish fable” (Titus 1:14) that salvation can be obtained apart from Jesus Christ. This variant is another intermediate step between the Rapture Cult and the final Antichrist religious system, and may be labeled “Stealth Dispensationalism.”

This particular error is found in numerous forms as well, but it commonly shows up in prophecy authors, speakers, and teachers that have acknowledged the impossibility of the pre-tribulation rapture, but retained some form of Jewish primacy in their end-times scenario. Teachers of this “error in truth’s clothing” routinely seek to draw away believers with a vociferous criticism of the huge Scriptural inconsistencies found in the Rapture Cult, while concealing the fact that they teach the same system of Jewish Supremacy that is the fountainhead of the rapturist error in the first place.

In effect, a Stealth Dispensationalist still separates the Jews and the Gentiles, but places them side-by-side in the tribulation via either a post-tribulational return of Jesus Christ, or the more recent variant known as “pre-wrath.” The latter is yet another spin of the much older “mid-tribulationist” position wherein the Lord “raptures” the “church” well into the Great Tribulation but just before he pours out his wrath.

Millions of Rapture Cultists are about to be devastated in the tribulation they’ve been taught they’ll never see. However, as many Cult oriented Christians are beginning to sense the danger, the Stealth Dispensationalists have built another barrier to the truth, and begun to yield on the truth of the timing -- even as they hold on to the one lie they can never release. This is related to the “chosen people” fraud, the 2,000 year-old heresy that God still prefers Jewish people based on race. Because this lie is written in cement, and poured into hearts of stone in the brick basement of the statehouse of Antichrist, we are about to see it explode in popularity -- even in a post-tribulational setting.

Most people are not aware that the pre-tribulation "rapture" theory is the marketing vehicle for the false doctrine of Dispensationalism. Most believers fail to see the Spiritual depth of terms such as "my people," or even the "chosen," or the "elect" of God; and this is largely because of a wholesale orientation to one primary, albeit false, worldview. The "state of Israel" deception is integral to the lie that the Christians are not the chosen people, and is the single most powerful stumbling block to the truth; it forms the nexus of the final Antichrist system. It is the evil that is at the core of the Cult, and they can never be delivered from it, for the Antichrist deception must come to pass. The Good News is, you don’t have to be a part of it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

politics and religoin never does mix or bode well . Always compromise is made .

We are to be “no part of the world”, (John 18:36) so any involvement with the politics of any nation is something we are not to meddle in. We are to do what Jesus and his disciples did in the first century....steer clear of becoming involved despite the oppression and subjugation of man’s rule under satan.

There is no nation on earth that the devil does not control. (1 John 5:19) The world as we can see is falling apart politically....but so is the “Christianity” attached to it....”church and state” is an unholy alliance.
Those found to be “part of the world”, will go down with it.

1 John 2:15-17....
”Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16  because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. 17  Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever.”

Be warned...

 

[Triumph1300]

There is no nation on earth that the devil does not control. (1 John 5:19) The world as we can see is falling apart politically....but so is the “Christianity” attached to it....”church and state” is an unholy alliance.
Those found to be “part of the world”, will go down with it.

Agreed......no doubt about it.

 

[soberxp]

Are you serious?
No one is having a serious discussion about the issue.
All of them expressed their opinions out of their own anger of justice.
You think you are blessing Israel.
He thinks you are cursing Israel.
So, a single statement of justice doesn't really mean anything.
It might also be the justice of a lie.

 

[soberxp]

So, imagine when the Israelites in the Old Testament were taken into exile and then rescued by Cyrus the Persian, at the time of their return—was it also like the situation they are in now?

Then who lived on the land? Did their return not cause a war?

Your question is very precise. It touches upon the very essence of that historical period. When we focus on the phrase "irreconcilable conflict," we find it is indeed a thread that connects the ancient and modern eras.

**Yes, during the era of the return initiated by Cyrus the Great, a conflict that could be described as "irreconcilable" under the conditions of that time did arise between the Jews and the Samaritans.** While this conflict cannot be compared in scale or form to the full-scale war risks faced by modern Israel, in terms of the profundity of its fundamental contradiction, it can be seen as the ancient version of an "irreconcilable" conflict.

### The Roots and Manifestations of the Ancient "Irreconcilable" Conflict

The "irreconcilable" nature of the conflict between the ancient Jews and Samaritans stemmed primarily from a fundamental clash of identity. To understand this conflict, we can look at the following comparison:

| Dimension of Comparison | The Returning Jews | The Local Samaritans |
| :--- | :--- | :--- |
| **Core Identity** | **Purity of Monotheistic Faith**. They considered themselves the sole legitimate inheritors of the "holy nation" covenanted with God, and they had to strictly separate themselves from foreign influences. | **Mixed Religion and Lineage**. They were descendants of the people who remained in the land and intermarried with foreign peoples brought in by the conquerors. While they also worshipped Yahweh, they were seen by the Jews as tainted by idolatry and thus "impure." |
| **Worship Center** | **Jerusalem**. This was considered the exclusive dwelling place designated by God. | **Mount Gerizim**. They believed this was the true divinely appointed place of worship, creating a sharp opposition to Jerusalem. |
| **Root of Conflict** | Rejecting the Samaritans' request to participate in rebuilding the Temple, as it was seen as defiling a sacred mission. | After their request to participate in the rebuilding was denied, they felt rejected and humiliated, and subsequently became the most determined opponents of the reconstruction project. |

**This "irreconcilable" conflict primarily manifested at the time as:**

* **Sustained Political Opposition**: They used their influence to repeatedly petition the Persian king, accusing the Jews of sedition, and even succeeded in halting the reconstruction work in Jerusalem for a period.
* **Social Segregation**: The two groups formed separate communities with no interaction. This schism deepened over subsequent centuries, eventually evolving into a complete religious schism.

### Essential Differences from "Modern War Risks"

Although the ancient contradiction was "irreconcilable" within its social context, it differs fundamentally from the "war risks" faced by modern Israel.

* **The Ancient Conflict: A "Struggle for Existence and Identity."** It occurred primarily within the framework of an empire (Persia), where both sides competed for religious orthodoxy, local influence, and living space. The means of conflict were political lawsuits, economic sabotage, and social segregation. The goal was to "suppress" the other within an established order, not to completely annihilate their existence.
* **Modern War Risks: A "Confrontation over Sovereignty and Survival."** It involves modern states with sovereignty, militaries, and international legal standing, facing composite military threats from other nations and non-state actors. The means of conflict is modern warfare, and its objective is to defend or destroy the state itself.

So, simply put, the ancient "irreconcilable" conflict was a **vertical, deep-seated opposition in religious identity**, while modern war risks represent a **horizontal, life-or-death struggle between sovereign states**. The ancient conflict laid a distant historical precedent for the modern opposition, but the complexity and brutality of the latter have pushed this conflict to a level unimaginable to the ancients.

**Then during the time of Jesus, the "irreconcilable conflict" between Jews and Samaritans.**

By the time of Jesus, the centuries-long conflict between Jews and Samaritans had evolved from initial political and racial confrontation into a deeply entrenched **ethnic and religious segregation** that permeated daily life. This state of "irreconcilability" is clearly reflected in multiple accounts throughout the New Testament.

### Multi-Dimensional Manifestations of the Conflict

In Jesus' era, this "irreconcilability" manifested in every aspect of daily life, which can be summarized in the following table:

| Dimension of Conflict | Specific Manifestations and Historical Background |
| :--- | :--- |
| **Social Segregation** | The Gospel of John explicitly states: "Jews have no dealings with Samaritans" (John 4:9). This segregation affected all areas of life; for instance, Jewish legal tradition even held that "the bread of a Samaritan is more unclean than swine's flesh." |
| **Verbal Insults** | "Samaritan" itself had become a term of abuse. When Jewish leaders wanted to insult Jesus, they said: "Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?" (John 8:48). |
| **Hostility and Violence** | This hatred was also accompanied by violence. According to the historian Josephus, Samaritans often attacked Galilean pilgrims traveling to Jerusalem for festivals. When Jesus was rejected by a Samaritan village, his disciples James and John wanted to call fire down from heaven to destroy them (Luke 9:51-56). |
| **Religious Opposition** | This was the core root of the conflict. The two groups had different centers of worship: Jews considered the Temple in Jerusalem the sole holy place, while Samaritans worshipped God on Mount Gerizim. Samaritans accepted only the Pentateuch and even altered its text (e.g., changing "Mount Ebal" to "Mount Gerizim" in Deuteronomy 27:4) to support their chosen place of worship. |

### Jesus: A Unique Attitude of Transcending Hatred

In such a fiercely antagonistic environment, the attitude of Jesus Christ demonstrated remarkable transcendence. He not only avoided the conflict but actively broke down this wall of partition:

* **Deliberately Passing Through Samaria**: The Gospel of John records that Jesus "had to" pass through Samaria (John 4:4). This was not a geographical necessity (Jews of the time usually took a detour) but a necessity arising from his mission.
* **Speaking with the Samaritan Woman**: At Jacob's well in Sychar, Jesus asked a Samaritan woman coming to draw water for a drink and engaged in a profound theological dialogue with her, ultimately revealing to her plainly that he was the Messiah (John 4:26). This was an astonishing act in the context of the first century.
* **Setting the Example of the "Good Samaritan"**: When questioned by a lawyer about "who is my neighbor," Jesus told a parable: In stark contrast to the priest and Levite who passed by without helping, it was a Samaritan—considered an enemy—who was moved with compassion and aided a complete stranger, a Jew (Luke 10:25-37). This parable completely overturned the racial and religious prejudices of his time.
* **Giving the Great Commission**: After his resurrection, Jesus commanded his disciples to be his witnesses "in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth" (Acts 1:8). This signified that the gospel was to break down all ethnic barriers. Subsequently, Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ, bringing about a great revival (Acts 8:4-8).

In summary, the "irreconcilability" between Jews and Samaritans in Jesus' time was the inevitable product of centuries of historical trauma and religious opposition. The words and actions of Jesus Christ, within this extremely tense social context, opened a path that transcended hatred and pointed toward **reconciliation**.

 

[Jay Ross]

Paul did not say "after that" all of Israel will be saved. No idea what translation you are reading, because this one is completely wrong. And no translation listed on biblehub says this.

Paul said "in this way" all Israel will be saved. Contextually, all the Israel are believers from both Gentiles and Jews. So, with the fullness of Gentiles all the (true, spiritual) Israel will be saved.

You can check in Greek. There is no "after that", there.

You are right, the Biblehub interlinear does not say "after that", this is just my understanding. If we look at all of the events that will occur in around 20 years' time, i.e. round 2045 AD, FACT 1, God begins His gathering of Israel to Himself, after the completion of the visitation of the fathers' iniquities of worshipping idols during the fourth age of Israel's existence from the time of Isaac's birth when He will incline His ears once more towards their pleas to save them from the hardship that they will be experiencing up and until that time and FACT 2, the time of the Gentiles trampling God Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts, i.e. Israel, over a period of 2,300 years, will have come to its completion so that both of these prophecies are completed at the same time.

I have also allowed other scripture passages to also confirm my understanding such as Hosea 6:1-3 which speaks of the restoration/redemption of Israel will only begin after the end of the sixth age which ends around the year 2044 AD.

Here is the PC Study Bible's interlinear: -



Notice that I have highlighted a number of Strong Numbers for the respective Greek words that require a deep dive into Strong's definition for the respective Greek Root word. As an example, let us consider the root word definition for just G:3779: -


Remember in times past that many people claimed that the earth was flat and that if a boat sailed to far away from land that they would fall off the edge of the earth. Since those times most people have come to accept that earth is a sphere. This is also true for Biblical translations. We have many different translations and just because they agree in some areas of their respective translations, we cannot assume that that portion of the original text has been accurately nailed down in their interpretations. A committee of like-minded people does not mean that their understanding is more correct than that of a single person who beg to disagree.

Romans 11:25-26 is just one such example based upon the evidence given above.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Blindly supporting Israel's wars is bizarre.

Who blindly supports the State of Israel in this war ? No one who supports Israel's right to defend it's self against all of the acts and intentions is blind about all such at all ! but clearly understands the reality is that, all who stand against Israles PM are clearly Evil and muckrakers 24/7 peddling nothing but nonsense !

The State of Israel was attacked fool ! and what a outright totaly gutless whay that they went about it all, from start to finish in fact !
Total morons who should never be regarded as humans but as out right mongrel Dogs !
They clearly tryed to creat a Holocaust of the Jews, once again in fact ! That was their whole intention ! can you reject that ? no one can in fact because it's a clear Fact !

Not to mention it's clearly the Socialist who support all such actions against the State of Israel in fact ! using their totaly depraved propaganda machine 24/7.
But guess what I am so suprised when I have walked about talking to anyone, as most do not swallow the MS Media dribble at all !

Oh yes the Socialist all do swallow the MS Media propagander 100% ! and start dictating nonsense about X Y or Z is Illegal !

It's ILLEGAL ! They demand !

 

[soberxp]

Who blindly supports the State of Israel in this war ? No one who supports Israel's right to defend it's self against all of the acts and intentions is blind about all such at all ! but clearly understands the reality is that, all who stand against Israles PM are clearly Evil and muckrakers 24/7 peddling nothing but nonsense !

The State of Israel was attacked fool ! and what a outright totaly gutless whay that they went about it all, from start to finish in fact !
Total morons who should never be regarded as humans but as out right mongrel Dogs !
They clearly tryed to creat a Holocaust of the Jews, once again in fact ! That was their whole intention ! can you reject that ? no one can in fact because it's a clear Fact !

Not to mention it's clearly the Socialist who support all such actions against the State of Israel in fact ! using their totaly depraved propaganda machine 24/7.
But guess what I am so suprised when I have walked about talking to anyone, as most do not swallow the MS Media dribble at all !

Oh yes the Socialist all do swallow the MS Media propagander 100% ! and start dictating nonsense about X Y or Z is Illegal !

It's ILLEGAL ! They demand !

The truth usually lies in the average value of a balanced consensus derived from the integration of all the information.
Have you read the #268

 

[Marvelloustime]

seeker f riendly judge not correct not destroyed .
But boy it sure did create mega churches of b oth the right and the left .
And ecumencism will finish the job and end them all ON the day of the LORD .
the decieved false religoins
the decieved within christendom , WILL MERGE under a love that will end THEM ALL ON THE DAY of the LORD .
oh they never gonna agree on politics
but they are gonna agree on the LETS AGREE to DISA GREE and JUST GET ALONG and lovey do .
ITS ALL GONNA END THEM ALL .
we should never have altered one word in them scrips .
WE should never have altered one th ing about that pattern they left for us .
AND the moment they did , IT bEGAN to bring only MORE LEAVEN IN .
Judge not correct not
IS the religious version
OF THE VICITIM card . AND THAT DOES NOTHI NG but silence TRUTH which only gives rise FOR EVIL TO TAKE OVER .
Christen dom IS DONE , for the most part its tanked .
GET THEM IN THE BIBLE . flee any scholar , flee their hermes and etc
F LEE their koine greek . ITS ALL being used for an a genda . A BAD ONE .

@amigo de christo

 

[Christian Soldier]

@Christian Soldier and @amigo de christo

You are both missing the point of God's prophetic words.

Sadly, the contextual accuracy of our English translations leaves a lot to be desired.

Paul wrote that when the fulness of time of the Gentiles is completed, after that all of Israel will be saved.

CS your understanding of what Paul wrote completely misses what Paul had written in his Letter to the Romans.

adc I have difficulty in understanding your post and the point you are trying to make w.r.t. Israel.

As Christians we need to know about God and His purposes as we move towards the completion of the seventh age.

If we are in error in our posts then we should humble ourselves and repent of our sins.

Yes you are in error and you should take your own advice and humble yourself and accept correction. You have made up a false narrative about national Israel. There is no seventh age, that's utter unbiblical rubbish.

Israel rejected God and it is reaping the fruits of it rebellion, they are not going to receive any special favours from God, because todays national Israel, has nothing in common with ancient Israel. The Lord Jesus caused the destruction of Israel and the religion.
There is no temple and it will never be rebuilt, because it would be an abomination in Gods sight. God would cause it's destruction immediately, if they attempt to rebuild it. God said it is a stench in His nostrils, so why would He allow such an abomination to come back into existence.

Paul said there are no Jews/Israelites or Gentiles among the elect of God. The Church has replaced Israel, so there are no Israelis or Gentiles in the Church, we are all one in Christ. This is what you fail to understand because somebody has brainwashed you into believing the doctrine of demons.

 

[Marvelloustime]

This i do beleive .
Now BELEIVE THIS
them jews by birth are NOT TRUE JEWS lest they FAITH BE IN JESUS .
For he is not a jew who is one outwardly .
if you all want to truly help israel
If we had truly loved jews and gentiles
WELL we had never heeded ecumeincal interfaith interreligious dialgoue for peace .
WE HAD RATHER PREACHED JESUS TO THEM .
Get them OUT of anything . ANYTHING that in any way remotely is connected to ecumeincalism .
DO IT NOW . the d elusion grows and all will b e damned who bought the lie .
Not some , ALL WHO B OUGHT THE LIE WILL BE DAMNED . not most
ALL who bought the lie .
NOW ITS TIME to preach JESUS and all biblical doctrine . OR prepare to wail on JESUS day cause the delusoin
IS A STRONG ONE and it comes in under guise its of GOD and is his love and is his plan for world peace.
ITS OF SATAN
iTS OF anti christ
its of all that is unholy and every dark spirit .
And we simply do not have the time to remain docile and holler judge not .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

A harlot do as a harlot do . and we do have us a mother of harlots at work .
I need you to understand that .
It would not ma tter if it were a harlot simply doing the work of a harlot
or the HARLOT and mother of all harlots . WE HEED NOT A WORD ONE outta such lips .
The time now is and has always been
GET THIS PEOPLE back into the bible and stay in it daily , being refreshed by those reminders .
I cannot wave a wand and save anyone . I cannot . BUT I CAN DARN SURE POINT to HE WHO CAN save
and HE WHO CAN keep us safe and i can by HIS GRACE be a co helper to this .
But if this people continues to heed the voice of the prophets IN THESE pulpits ,
FRIEND THEY GOING DOWN ON JESUS DAY . DOWN i say , DOWN TO PERDITION .
that is not me being mean
that is not me being judgmental
that is ME simply doing all i can to help this people . BIBLE TIME .

@amigo de christo

 

[Jay Ross]

Yes you are in error and you should take your own advice and humble yourself and accept correction. You have made up a false narrative about national Israel. There is no seventh age, that's utter unbiblical rubbish.

Israel rejected God and it is reaping the fruits of it rebellion, they are not going to receive any special favours from God, because todays national Israel, has nothing in common with ancient Israel. The Lord Jesus caused the destruction of Israel and the religion.
There is no temple and it will never be rebuilt, because it would be an abomination in Gods sight. God would cause it's destruction immediately, if they attempt to rebuild it. God said it is a stench in His nostrils, so why would He allow such an abomination to come back into existence.

Paul said there are no Jews/Israelites or Gentiles among the elect of God. The Church has replaced Israel, so there are no Israelis or Gentiles in the Church, we are all one in Christ. This is what you fail to understand because somebody has brainwashed you into believing the doctrine of demons.

Thank you for your attempt to correct me over my post from a position of ignorance with respect to how many ages will be played out between when Adam was created and the final judgement of mankind.

We know that there were four ages between the creation of Adam and the birth of Christ. We know that from the birth of Adam and the beginning of the third age started after the conclusion of the first two ages. We know that the time span from the birth of Isaac until the birth of Christ is two ages. We also know from Ex 20:4-6 that the visitation of the fathers' iniquities was to be visited upon their children and the children's children during the third and the fourth generation/age which has the same duration as a day of the lord as referenced in Hosea 6:2: - After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him.

Putting all of these ages together, we discover that there will be a seventh age, which pours cold water on your seemingly fickle statement: - "There is no seventh age, that's utter unbiblical rubbish."

Perhaps, you should apply this statement to your own understanding: - "Yes you are in error, and you should take your own advice and humble yourself and accept correction. You have made up a false narrative."

 

[HealthyShape]

You are right, the Biblehub interlinear does not say "after that", this is just my understanding. If we look at all of the events that will occur in around 20 years' time, i.e. round 2045 AD, FACT 1, God begins His gathering of Israel to Himself...

This is all teaching that is not found in the New Testament. You are inventing too much. There is nothing in the new Testament saying that unbelieving, secular Israel should be gathered by God or play any spiritual role after Christ.

If your ideas lead you to change what Paul is saying (from "in this way" to "after that"), then it should be quite a serious sign something does not work in your narrative.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yup. That refers to the Church,
The Christians, all followers of Christ.

Sorry but it doesn't. It refers to the surviving nation of Israel. Nowhere in teh bible is the church called israel.

 

[Jay Ross]

This is all teaching that is not found in the New Testament. You are inventing too much. There is nothing in the New Testament saying that unbelieving, secular Israel should be gathered by God or play any spiritual role after Christ.

If your ideas lead you to change what Paul is saying (from "in this way" to "after that"), then it should be quite a serious sign something does not work in your narrative.

There is nothing wrong with my narrative as you are suggesting.

The "New Covenant" theology which hangs off of Jer 31:31ff was never meant for the "Church" to justify that the "Church" was to replace the Nation of Israel in the End Times.

Jer 31:31ff tells us that God would make like new again the Exodus Covenant of a Kingdom of priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations which they had rebelled against while Moses was up on the Mountain Talking with God. Jeremaih was telling the Nation of Israel that God would incline His ear towards them once more and would gather them to Himself and plant them in His fertile field just like Jesus told the parable of the Sower to the Israelites during His first advent.

As for a serious sign, we have been given on where the Kings of the earth will be judged along with the Heavenly Hosts and they will be gathered together and imprisoned for many days in a pit/cistern to await the time of their punishment. This time of judgement is found in the Book of Revelation which Paul also wrote about in Romans 11:25b-26.

This teaching is found in the New Testament if we can see and hear God's words in the scriptures which cannot be separated out from each other.

There are still many OT prophecies that will be player out in the Seventh Age if we are prepared to open our eye and unclog our ears so that we can see and hear God's words for this present time.

Now if you are going to say that "New Testament" narrative does not include the Nation of Israel, then post your Biblical Proof to justify your claims otherwise your words are just empty word that have no substance.

 

[doctrox]

the surviving nation of Israel

"...nation" is people (not geography), while the OP assumes ala "State of Israel".