ISLAM IS NOT THE REVELATION BEAST

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Luther7

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Quit hiding behind this. The Jews are the Chosen people. FACT.

There are two folds. The Church who knows Jesus currently and are known by Him will be the first fold. The second fold will be of the 12 tribes across the earth. Two folds into one-fold, just as the Word says. The one fold is the great multitude seen in Revelation 7 and Rev 19.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
No hiding. Always out in the open. The Bible teaches that there is no difference between jew and Gentile in the New Covenant. God saves individuals, not nations of people.

Romans 10:12:
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord of all is rich to all who call on Him. 13 For “whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

We have been conditioned in the last 100 years or so that this verse doesn't exist , but yet, there it is. NO DIFFERENCE. No special favor, no special kingdom either. They believe in an earthly kingdom, and that's a major reason why they rejected Jesus Christ. Christ's kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD.
 
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marks

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i don't debate, you win.

i thought perhaps here would be different but I see it's no different than any other.

I'm out, please delete my account, i'll keep looking for understanding elsewhere... though I think it does not exist.

thank our father i still have my closet.
Or you could stay and be one of the good guys with a civil tongue and a heart for Scripture, and be selective regarding with whom you might engage.

Much love!
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Quit hiding behind this. The Jews are the Chosen people. FACT.
So, you believe that Paul is referring to the Jews in the following verse?

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
 
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The Light

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No hiding. Always out in the open. The Bible teaches that there is no difference between jew and Gentile in the New Covenant. God saves individuals, not nations of people.

Romans 10:12:
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord of all is rich to all who call on Him. 13 For “whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

We have been conditioned in the last 100 years or so that this verse doesn't exist , but yet, there it is. NO DIFFERENCE. No special favor, no special kingdom either. They believe in an earthly kingdom, and that's a major reason why they rejected Jesus Christ. Christ's kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD.
That's just it. Everyone wants to jump to the one fold. The claim is there is no difference between Gentile and Jew. The facts are that the Gentile is the first fold and the Jew is the second fold. Those two fold become one fold.

It is the timing that matters. The first fold are the Gentiles. It is not until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in that blindness is removed from part of Israel.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Those two folds are two raptures.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Are you claiming that the Jews are not the Chosen People?
I asked you a question first. Can you please answer it? Then I will answer yours.

Do you believe that Paul is referring to the Jews in the following verse?

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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That's just it. Everyone wants to jump to the one fold. The claim is there is no difference between Gentile and Jew.
Do you disagree with that claim?

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

The facts are that the Gentile is the first fold and the Jew is the second fold. Those two fold become one fold.
Nonsense. Jesus referred to Jewish believers as His fold in John 10 and then referred to His other fold (Gentile believers) after that. So, you have it in the wrong order.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

The "other sheep" that were not of the first fold" are Gentile believers. The "one flock" or "one fold" is the same as the "one new man" and "one body" of Jew and Gentiles believers that Jesus brought together with His shed blood (Ephesians 2:11-22).

It is the timing that matters
Agree. And you're missing it completely.

. The first fold are the Gentiles. It is not until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in that blindness is removed from part of Israel.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Those two folds are two raptures.
That is utter nonsense that has no credibility whatsoever.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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NO WAY!!!

Christ died on the cross for the remission of the sins of ALL... who would believe. God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS, as written.

Per what Apostle Paul revealed about the 'mystery' of the majority of Jews having been spiritually blinded by God during this present world, with that blindness removed on the day of Christ's future coming, THAT... shows the 'fat lady ain't sung yet', not even when Jesus returns!
Nonsense! Today is the day and now is the time of salvation! Not tomorrow and not whenever Jesus returns and certainly not for an imaginary thousand years that takes place after He returns.

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. 2 For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

Some Jews in Paul's time had their blindness removed, so your understanding of Jews having their blindness removed only at some point in the future is completely flawed.

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

See how Paul hoped to help save some of his fellow Jews even in his time? Those who are blind in Israel are not blind the rest of their lives. They all have an opportunity to repent and have their blindness removed. The original blindness of the Jews was for the purpose of having salvation come to the Gentiles who, in turn, are "to make Israel envious" and want them to be saved as well.

Many... during this present world time have yet to have 'their'... opportunity to hear The Gospel with eyes to see, and ears to hear.
Anyone who has not heard the gospel will be judged by the standards that Paul explained in Romans 1 and 2. Your idea that if they didn't hear the gospel during this lifetime they need to have that opportunity after being resurrected in the future is utterly false. They will be judged by this standard...

Romans 2:6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

That is what Christ's future Millennium reign is mainly for.
Nonsense. Nowhere does scripture teach that anyone will get a second chance at salvation after being resurrected, as you falsely believe. Scripture is clear that when people are resurrected in the future they will either be resurrected unto eternal life or unto eternal damnation, shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29).

It will be a great time of teaching by Christ's elect. Jesus even promised His elect of the Church of Philadelphia that He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship Him at the feet of His elect! (Rev.3).
LOL. What? No, those of the synagogue of Satan will not be worshiping Christ. What in the world are you talking about? They reject Christ and will certainly not worship Him. They will be cast into the lake of fire when He returns. But, first, at the judgment, they will acknowledge who Jesus is and fall down at the feet of those who belong to Christ while acknowledging that they were wrong and those who belong to Christ were right about Jesus.

Revelation 3:9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Unfortunately for them, it will be too late because they didn't repent while they were alive on the earth when they had the chance, so they will be cast into the lake of fire.

Just because there will be many that will have fallen away and will appear spiritually naked and in shame when Jesus does return, does NOT mean they are forever lost, which is the dirty doctrine of men you are pushing. ACCOUNTABILITY TO GOD is required, and ALL must declare who their allegiance is with, regardless of what limited scope preachers like Calvin thought.
You are pushing pure nonsense here! Those that have fallen away will not get another chance to repent when Jesus returns! That's a doctrine of demons!

2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Where do you get the idea that they will not be forever lost from what Paul said here? He said they will be condemned. They will have had the chance to be saved, but they will be condemned instead because of not receiving "the love of the truth, that they might be saved".

On the day of Christ's future return, we ALL... will be changed to our "spiritual body". That "spiritual body" is able to grasp much wider spiritual concepts from God than our limited carnal minds. And in Christ's future "thousand years" reign, Satan will be locked in his pit prison unable to deceive the unsaved nations. Thus the unsaved will... HEAR with UNDERSTANDING, so they can make their choice to believe or not, WITHOUT Satan's influence! That is how ACCOUNTABILITY in that time will be achieved for the unsaved in that time.
The choice to believe or not has to happen NOW! What you're saying is not taught anywhere in scripture. You are preaching a Satanic second chance gospel and it is unacceptable! An absolute doctrine of demons! Repent of this false teaching!
 

No Pre-TB

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Those two folds are two raptures.
2 raptures? Really. Youre telling us there are 2 harapzo's?

14 occurrences of the word harpazo.
Matthew 11:12
Matthew 12:29
Matthew 13:19
John 6:15
John 10:12
John 10:28
John 10:29
Acts 8:39
Acts 23:10
2 Cor 12:2
2 Cor 12:4
1 Thess 4:17
Jude 1:23
Rev 12:5

One "rapture" is in 1 Thess 4:17. Which of these other 13 are the 2nd rapture? :gd
 
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Luther7

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NO WAY!!!

Christ died on the cross for the remission of the sins of ALL... who would believe. God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS, as written.

Per what Apostle Paul revealed about the 'mystery' of the majority of Jews having been spiritually blinded by God during this present world, with that blindness removed on the day of Christ's future coming, THAT... shows the 'fat lady ain't sung yet', not even when Jesus returns!

Many... during this present world time have yet to have 'their'... opportunity to hear The Gospel with eyes to see, and ears to hear. That is what Christ's future Millennium reign is mainly for. It will be a great time of teaching by Christ's elect. Jesus even promised His elect of the Church of Philadelphia that He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship Him at the feet of His elect! (Rev.3).

Just because there will be many that will have fallen away and will appear spiritually naked and in shame when Jesus does return, does NOT mean they are forever lost, which is the dirty doctrine of men you are pushing. ACCOUNTABILITY TO GOD is required, and ALL must declare who their allegiance is with, regardless of what limited scope preachers like Calvin thought.

On the day of Christ's future return, we ALL... will be changed to our "spiritual body". That "spiritual body" is able to grasp much wider spiritual concepts from God than our limited carnal minds. And in Christ's future "thousand years" reign, Satan will be locked in his pit prison unable to deceive the unsaved nations. Thus the unsaved will... HEAR with UNDERSTANDING, so they can make their choice to believe or not, WITHOUT Satan's influence! That is how ACCOUNTABILITY in that time will be achieved for the unsaved in that time.
You said:
Satan will be locked in his pit prison unable to deceive the unsaved nations. Thus the unsaved will... HEAR with UNDERSTANDING, so they can make their choice to believe or not, WITHOUT Satan's influence!
You are actually describing the period of time we are in now, Since the Holy Spirit was poured out.but the time is soon coming when there will
So, you believe that Paul is referring to the Jews in the following verse?

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
Oh didn't you know? Us Christians are the 2nd chosen people. We're a little lower than the "favored" chosen. You see? It's that simple.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Oh didn't you know? Us Christians are the 2nd chosen people. We're a little lower than the "favored" chosen. You see? It's that simple.
Oh, right. Silly me. I forgot. That's written in Romans 17 somewhere, right? It must be awkward for Jewish Christians to realize that they are not as favored as their fellow Jews who reject Christ. And it also must be awkward for Jewish Christians that God favors them more for being Jews than He favors them for being Christians. Because, as we all know, God cares far more about people's ethnicity and nationality than He does about people having faith and whatnot.
 
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Luther7

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Oh, right. Silly me. I forgot. That's written in Romans 17 somewhere, right? It must be awkward for Jewish Christians to realize that they are not as favored as their fellow Jews who reject Christ. And it also must be awkward for Jewish Christians that God favors them more for being Jews than He favors them for being Christians. Because, as we all know, God cares far more about people's ethnicity and nationality than He does about people having faith and whatnot.
Hilarious!....and sad at the same time.
 
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The Light

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2 raptures? Really. Youre telling us there are 2 harapzo's?

14 occurrences of the word harpazo.
Matthew 11:12
lol

Matthew 12:29
lol

Matthew 13:19
lol
John 6:15
lol

John 10:12
John 10:28
John 10:29
Acts 8:39
Acts 23:10
2 Cor 12:2
2 Cor 12:4
1 Thess 4:17
Jude 1:23
Rev 12:5

One "rapture" is in 1 Thess 4:17. Which of these other 13 are the 2nd rapture? :gd
Please. Educate yourself. I looked up the 1st four and it was a waste of time.

Yes there are two raptures. The first is the Church. After that what do you think those 144,000 first fruits mean?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I asked you a question first. Can you please answer it? Then I will answer yours.

Do you believe that Paul is referring to the Jews in the following verse?

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
@The Light Is my question too difficult for you to answer?
 

Davy

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You said:
Satan will be locked in his pit prison unable to deceive the unsaved nations. Thus the unsaved will... HEAR with UNDERSTANDING, so they can make their choice to believe or not, WITHOUT Satan's influence!
You are actually describing the period of time we are in now, Since the Holy Spirit was poured out.but the time is soon coming when there will

Oh didn't you know? Us Christians are the 2nd chosen people. We're a little lower than the "favored" chosen. You see? It's that simple.

Good that you understand that Faith from understanding The Gospel by our spirit, as influenced by The Holy Spirit, is how it happens. But you forget that not all peoples are Christians today, and don't have The Holy Spirit to show them, which this truth is about the New Testament expression of having 'eyes to see, and ears to hear'.

Moreover, per Apostle Paul in Romans 11, he revealed that the majority of Jews, which still reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ because God has put the "spirit of slumber" on them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles, will have their spiritual blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. And that won't happen until the day of Christ's future return.

What Christ's future "thousand years" reign is about is an idea in God's Word that is seldom ever covered in the Churches. Not all peoples in this present world will have their opportunity to spiritually see with eyes and to see, and ears to hear, so that they might believe. That is why in Christ's future Millennium reign with His elect, why Satan will not be allowed to deceive the 'unsaved' nations in that time. It is so the unsaved then will have eyes to see, and ears to hear, with nothing influencing their understanding in order to believe, or not believe.

But until that future time of Lord Jesus' future literal reign here on earth over the unsaved nations, many spiritual eyes and minds have been closed by God, so that they will not be held accountable for their ignorance and being deceived. Is it not like this even in our own families with children? do we punish our child when they are ignorant of what they did was wrong? Yet it is different when the child knew what they did was wrong, and did it anyway. In Christ's future Millennial reign, no one will have an excuse because of that "spirit of slumber" so as to not believe on Lord Jesus as The Christ.
 
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Davy

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Oh didn't you know? Us Christians are the 2nd chosen people. We're a little lower than the "favored" chosen. You see? It's that simple.

For your own benefit I say the following about that...

Per Old Testament and even secular history, the scattered northern ten tribes of Israel years into their captivity north of Israel to Assyria and the lands of the Medes, starting migrating westward across the Caucasus Mountains, becoming known as Caucasians, and The Gospel was preached to them and the majority of them believed. Their first Churches were in the areas of ancient Greece and Cappadocia (modern Turkey) where the Church at Antioch and Revelation seven Churches were for example. The majority of ten tribes then later migrated westward into Europe.

Lord Jesus had said that He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the "house of Israel". After God split the old kingdom of Israel into two separate peoples and nations per 1 Kings 11 forward, that title of "house of Israel" began to apply ONLY to the ten northern tribes of Israel.

Some Biblically illiterate folks try to claim that title is meant for the Jews, or for all Israel, when it is not. After the split, the southern "kingdom of Judah", also known in God's Word as the "house of Judah", meant only the JEWS of the southern three tribes Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, their capital city at Jerusalem.

God scattered the ten tribe northern "house of Israel" out of the holy land first because of their idol worship. Only the Jews of the "house of Judah" in the southern lands were left, and still were following God. About 120 years after the ten northern tribes had been removed, the "house of Judah" also fell away, and God brought the king of Babylon upon them who destroyed Jerusalem and Solomon's temple. Only a small remnant of these Jews returned to Jerusalem to build it again, and the 2nd temple that was standing in Lord Jesus' day.

The ten northern tribes of Israel once scattered to Assyria, took Gentile names and customs while captive there. They never returned to the holy land as a people, even as it still is to this day. Many Jewish scholars even believe the ten tribes are forever LOST, no more, and they use the idea that they have mixed beyond their genealogy of old Israel instead with the Gentiles (which is not completely true, since God prophesied of their eventual return under Lord Jesus).

There exists in the ancient Assyrian cuneiform clay tablet records kept by the kings of Assyria of what the Assyrians called the captive ten tribes of Israel (see Royal Correspondence of the Assyrian Empire, originally translated by University of Michigan professor Leroy Waterman in the 1930's.) From names that the Assyrians called the ten tribes in captivity, those names became links to the Cimmerian tribes which the secular science of Anthropology has studied. The problem is Anthropology has had difficulty determining just where those Cimmerian tribes originated. They know the Cimmerians migrated from the east, but you know how those in science look at religion and The Bible. They won't consider those Cimmerians represent later migrations by the ten lost tribes of Israel. Same with the group of Scythians that migrated westward into Asia Minor and Europe taking a southerly route instead of the Caucasus route.

In the Book of Hosea, God revealed what would happen to the scattered ten tribes of Israel. He said He would hedge up their paths so they wouldn't find their way back (back to the holy land). And He would let them have the full weight of their Baal idol worship they forgot Him for. He said He would lead them into the "wilderness". And eventually there, He would given them a New Covenant. That literally happened to the scattered ten tribes of Israel. In Deuteronomy 4 and 28 God had previously warned the children of Israel what He would do to them if they rebelled against Him with worshiping idols. He would scatter them among the Gentiles losing their heritage as God's people. This happened literally to the ten tribes, as they took new names, pagan names, and continued their false Baal idol worship in that "wilderness" (new lands they were scattered to). One can search European history about all the false gods and idols that its peoples used to worship before The Gospel of Jesus Christ was preached to them. Hollywood loves to still make movies about those idol worship times of old Asia Minor and Europe.

In the 13th century Declaration of Arbroath (Declaration of Independence) by the Scottish nobles, they admitted their heritage from Israel, having migrated long ago from the east to the Isles. The Scottish nobles, just as the kings of Ireland before them, would anoint their kings with oil during their inauguration. Same has been done with the Christian kings and queens in European history.
 
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Luther7

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Good that you understand that Faith from understanding The Gospel by our spirit, as influenced by The Holy Spirit, is how it happens. But you forget that not all peoples are Christians today, and don't have The Holy Spirit to show them, which this truth is about the New Testament expression of having 'eyes to see, and ears to hear'.

Moreover, per Apostle Paul in Romans 11, he revealed that the majority of Jews, which still reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ because God has put the "spirit of slumber" on them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles, will have their spiritual blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. And that won't happen until the day of Christ's future return.

What Christ's future "thousand years" reign is about is an idea in God's Word that is seldom ever covered in the Churches. Not all peoples in this present world will have their opportunity to spiritually see with eyes and to see, and ears to hear, so that they might believe. That is why in Christ's future Millennium reign with His elect, why Satan will not be allowed to deceive the 'unsaved' nations in that time. It is so the unsaved then will have eyes to see, and ears to hear, with nothing influencing their understanding in order to believe, or not believe.

But until that future time of Lord Jesus' future literal reign here on earth over the unsaved nations, many spiritual eyes and minds have been closed by God, so that they will not be held accountable for their ignorance and being deceived. Is it not like this even in our own families with children? do we punish our child when they are ignorant of what they did was wrong? Yet it is different when the child knew what they did was wrong, and did it anyway. In Christ's future Millennial reign, no one will have an excuse because of that "spirit of slumber" so as to not believe on Lord Jesus as The Christ.
You said:
"That is why in Christ's future Millennium reign with His elect, why Satan will not be allowed to deceive the 'unsaved' nations in that time. It is so the unsaved then will have eyes to see, and ears to hear, with nothing influencing their understanding in order to believe, or not believe."

I'm sorry but that is what the "day" of salvation is. Satan is currently bound (limited) in his power to prevent the working of the Holy Spirit. " NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION".

But soon God will give satan his " 15 minutes of fame" ( most likely 5 months). The rabbis want you to believe this event won't happen until "their" kingdom comes to an end after " a thousand years ". But God's Word prevails over the jews book, the talmud.

We MUST understand that Satan is currently deceiving the unsaved world and we need to trust in Jesus NOW. When He comes it will be too late.

Revelation 1:7 :
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen!

And AMEN. That's it. No more chances. We have been warned for thousands of years already.
 

No Pre-TB

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lol


lol


lol

lol


Please. Educate yourself. I looked up the 1st four and it was a waste of time.

Yes there are two raptures. The first is the Church. After that what do you think those 144,000 first fruits mean?
As an adult you laugh instead of showing me which verse contains the 2nd harpazo. If there are only 13 other occurrences of it, if a 2nd one exists..it must be one of those. But you are correct when you said you looked up the first 4 and they were a waste of time. So were the other 9. That is because a second rapture doesn't exist. You are adding to the Bible. When Paul gave us the mystery of the living also being changed at the last trumpet, he gave us the sequence.

The dead rise first.
Then....the next in sequence
those who are alive and have survived the calamity will also be changed. There is no room for a 2nd rapture. Scripture doesn't provide it, Paul doesn't provide it. Christ didn't provide it and of the 14 occurrences, its not provided there either.

Otherwise, its for you to prove it exist with the word harpazo in whatever verse you think it is with it in perfect context. Please show us.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I asked you my question first and was never answered.
No, you did not. Why are you lying? I asked my question first in post #24 and you asked your question in response to that post in post #26 without answering my question. You never answered the question I asked originally in post #24. If you answer it, then I'll answer your question. That's how this works.