Reason for The Crusades explained

[Matthias]

Ok then so what are we arguing about.
We agree on that

I’ve stated and restated my position for your benefit on numerous times and in various ways, going to great lengths to try to make it clear to you. You haven’t understood me and that has caused you to bear false witness against me. You’ve been influenced by @Wrangler egging you on. I told you what is going to happen to him. I don’t want to see that happen to you.

 

[Armour of God]

I’ve stated and restated my position for your benefit on numerous times. You haven’t understood me and that has caused you to bear false witness against me. You’ve been influenced by @Wrangler egging you on. I told you what is going to happen to him. I don’t want to see that happen to you.

We agree that we can defend ourselves.
And we agree that village pillaging, torture, rape and such is wrong. So we are in total agreement my friend.
God bless

 

[Matthias]

We agree that we can defend ourselves.
And we agree that village pillaging, torture, rape and such is wrong. So we are in total agreement my friend.
God bless

A friend doesn’t bear false witness against a friend and not make amends for it. I would very much like for us to be friends but what you have done stands in the way of that happening. You have the ability and the opportunity to change that. It is my hope that you will choose to do so but that’s up to you.

Goodnight.

 

[rvmb]

You shouldn’t. I don’t agree. You’re welcome to search my posts for those conversations that I mentioned. I’m not going to discuss it in this thread.

No need to discuss here, simply kindly list the verses that you believe teach Matthew/12 have the same authority as Paul to teach Salvation to believers today

 

[Armour of God]

A friend doesn’t bear false witness against a friend and not make amends for it. I would very much like for us to be friends but what you have done stands in the way of that happening. You have the ability and the opportunity to change that. It is my hope that you will choose to do so but that’s up to you.

Goodnight.

I never beared false witness. It was just a misunderstanding. I was simply saying that we can defend ourselves. Everything time i asked the question you would give a long statement that I could not understand and appeared to be dodging my question, instead of being straight forward like you eventually did.
Plus it's not easy debating multiple people at once like you were and I think you were mixing up what I was saying to what wrangler was saying.
A misunderstanding is all I would call it. I was just looking for a more direct response.
God bless

 

[Armour of God]

No need to discuss here, simply kindly list the verses that you believe teach Matthew/12 have the same authority as Paul to teach Salvation to believers today

People have various interpretations on the subject of salvation. It deserves its own thread for people to discuss

 

[rvmb]

People have various interpretations on the subject of salvation. It deserves its own thread for people to discuss

and that's one reason there was a crusade, people arguing about how Salvation was achieved.
The request stands :-
What verses teach that Matthew/12 Apostles have authority over Paul to teach salvation to believers today.
It's a verse request >>FROM PAUL<<
All I see is quivering, shaking, excuses, opinions but no verses.

 

[Armour of God]

and that's one reason there was a crusade, people arguing about how Salvation was achieved.
The request stands :-
What verses teach that Matthew/12 Apostles have authority over Paul to teach salvation to believers today.
It's a verse request >>FROM PAUL<<
All I see is quivering, shaking, excuses, opinions but no verses.

View attachment 81391

I already agreed with the verses you gave

 

[Matthias]

“Pacifism rarely gets taken seriously due to a widespread cultural bias: ‘everybody knows‘ that pacifism is hopelessly naive and idealistic. Meanwhile, war is accepted as normal, practical and realistic. Meanwhile, war is accepted as normal, practical and realistic. And although pacifists such as Mohandas Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. are respected for their moral strength, they are often dismissed by the dominant culture as unrealistic. However, when ‘warism’ - taking war for granted as morally acceptable - becomes recognized to be, like racism and sexism, a prejudice that distorts our better judgment, then we can try to set the bias aside and openly consider varieties of pacifism.

’Pacifism’ means ‘peaceloving’. It should not be mistaken for ‘passivism’, which means being passive, suffering acceptance, not resisting evil. Because the two words sound alike, people occasionally confuse one for the other. In fact, pacifists rarely are passivists; more often they are activists, working for peace.”

(Duane Cady, “Pacifism Is Not Passivism”)

Pacifism Is Not Passivism | Issue 105 | Philosophy Now

Duane Cady tells us why pacifism isn’t sitting back and letting the masters of war have their way.

philosophynow.org

 

[Matthias]

Mercenaries in the age of the Crusades - WarHistory.org

Mercenaries sometimes appear as the outcasts of twelfth-century society along with Jews and lepers. The Lateran Council of 1179 excommunicated them and their...

warhistory.org

Mercenary armies.

Acceptable in the days of the Crusaders. Acceptable today?

Would your church hire a mercenary army? Would you be okay with it if it did?

Would Jesus and the apostles have approved of hiring mercenaries?

 

[Matthias]

Some of my readers know that I’m currently reading New Jerusalem:The short life and terrible death of Christendom’s most defiant sect, written by Paul Ham.

Is anyone (besides me) posting in this thread familiar with this 16th century incident?

When did it become the business of the church to wage war on Christian sects? Did Jesus and the apostles say anything that could be used to sanction it?

 

[Matthias]

“These men were not the dashing, chivalrous knight of folk tale and Cervantes. They were rough-hewn, raucous, hard-drinking mercenaries and bounty hunters, nomadic guns for hire who wandered Europe looking for the next war or adventure, often dragging their families with them.“

(Paul Ham, New Jerusalem, p. 156)

Ham continues,

“Waldek’s militiamen mostly came from the diocese, but the notoriety of Munster had drawn many from the Saxon, Dutch, and Danish lands. Princes tended to hire such men at their own expense to fight local battles, usually over property or long-standing vendettas, and paid them in cash and a share of the spoils. As such, their men enlisted not out of loyalty to church or state. They were jostling to be at the kill, so they could share in the booty. They had families to support, after all, and rumors swirled of a treasure trove inside the city. Hadn’t the Anabaptists pooled their possessions, seized the church property and minted their own gold coins?”

(Ibid.)

The local Bishop (Waldek) hired them. Would your pastor?

Which Christian sect would you support your church employing mercenaries to annihilate?

 

[Matthias]

Proposition: Jesus and the apostles said, “Kill your enemies”.

Did they say that?

Proposition: Jesus and the apostles killed their enemies.

Did they do that?

 

[Matthias]

What combat roles did Jesus and the apostles perform for or against the Roman Empire?

 

[Matthias]

This is the primitive Christian way of self defense.

 

[Matthias]

What combat roles did Jesus and the apostles perform for or against the Roman Empire?

None.

 

[Matthias]

Proposition: Jesus and the apostles said, “Kill your enemies”.

Did they say that?

No.

Proposition: Jesus and the apostles killed their enemies.

Did they do that?

No.

 

[Matthias]

Mercenaries in the age of the Crusades - WarHistory.org

Mercenaries sometimes appear as the outcasts of twelfth-century society along with Jews and lepers. The Lateran Council of 1179 excommunicated them and their...

warhistory.org

Mercenary armies.

Acceptable in the days of the Crusaders. Acceptable today?

Others may say yes. I say no.

Would your church hire a mercenary army?

No.

Would you be okay with it if it did?

No.

Would Jesus and the apostles have approved of hiring mercenaries?

No.

 

[JesusFan]

Moving the Goal Posts. Is that what the Crusades were about, Christians killing fellow Christians?

No, was about stopping Militant Islam trying to take over all of Europe

 

[Matthias]

No, was about stopping Militant Islam trying to take over all of Europe

Why did they also kill Christians and Jews? Why did the Crusaders act like Muslims? Do you approve of their behavior? Do you encourage others to act toward their enemies as they acted toward theirs?

Where do you stand on the teaching of Jesus and the apostles on how to treat enemies?