Should we as Christians support the State of Israel ?

[Wrangler]

1) We are “in the world”....and we have no choice about that.....but Christ told us to be “no part” of it. (John 18:36)

And I have pointed out repeatedly that your claim of what Jesus said is false. John 18:36

36 Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”​

Nothing in that verse like have no part of the world! And your claim is absurd on its face. IF what you said was true:

1. there’d be no reason for Jesus to come into a world we are to have no part of.
2. he would not tell us to love one enemies - who are in this world!
3. he wouldn’t tell us to baptize nations of the world if we are to have noting to do with it
4. And certainly God would NOT have sent his son, why? To save the world he loves!

Nothing says love like not having anything to do with that which you love. You‘re basically saying God had his son die horribly for that which we should have no part in. Your claim is monumentally ridiculous on its face.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Your claim is monumentally ridiculous on its face.

...
That is where the discussion should begin.....”on the face of it” you have been persuaded to become “part of the world” that is alienated from God....indoctrination with patriotic sentiments and an apparent love of war, you have not adopted Christ’s view of violence. What was the most violent thing Jesus ever did on earth? He evicted the money changers out of the Temple saying that these men, intent on unjust profit, were “making God’s house into a den of thieves”.

What part of the world did God NOT hand over to the devil?
If “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one”.....what nation does that leave out?

Luke 4:5-7....this is Jesus being tempted by Satan....
“So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. 6  Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7  If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.”

How much of “all the kingdom’s of the inhabited earth” does satan not rule?
And how could this possibly be a temptation if satan was not in possession of all these kingdoms? How could he give Jesus what was not his to give? Wouldn’t Jesus have corrected him?

And I have pointed out repeatedly that your claim of what Jesus said is false. John 18:36

36 Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”​

Nothing in that verse like have no part of the world! And your claim is absurd on its face.

Read those words in context and with discernment....and from a more accurate translation......
John 17:16 Jesus said of his disciples.....”They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world”.

Did Jesus meddle in the politics of his day? Did he plot to overthrow Rome as the oppressors of his people? Many of the Jews were plotting such a revolt, but it ended in tragedy at Masada.

Now think back....what had Jesus reprimanded Peter for just hours earlier? What does that mean in the context of what Jesus said at John 18:36?
God’s Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom.....otherwise his disciples would have fought to keep him from being arrested.....the point of the swords that they were in possession of, was to demonstrate that even though they were armed, they would not fight....Peter didn’t get that memo apparently....but we know that he was an impetuous man by nature. Jesus healed the man he wounded.

And two swords against an angry mob and armed soldiers would have been pointless....it would have been an invitation to a massacre.

IF what you said was true:

Let’s take that apart.....

1. there’d be no reason for Jesus to come into a world we are to have no part of.

You have no idea what his redemption meant.....nor do you understand the implications of a world ruled by God’s adversary......why did God give the devil what he wanted? Why is he the ruler of this world?

1. he would not tell us to love one enemies - who are in this world!

Sorry.....what? How do you love your enemies with weapons of mass destruction? Are you serious?

1. he wouldn’t tell us to baptize nations of the world if we are to have noting to do with it

He sent his disciples out into that world to rescue the worthy ones from the ruler who, in their ignorance, had power over their choices.....Jesus gave them new choices....and a whole different perspective on the world they lived in. They learned how to “turn their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning shears” and not to “learn war anymore”. (Isa 2:2-4)

1. And certainly God would NOT have sent his son, why? To save the world he loves!

He loves his own creation which is why it pains him to see what the devil is doing to mankind....and to this earth....but he has the ability to undo the works of the devil....whilst at the same time testing us all out to see where our loyalties lie....you seem determined to hold onto your patriotism......that is entirely your problem. You cannot have a foot in both camps....there is no dual citizenship.

Nothing says love like not having anything to do with that which you love. You‘re basically saying God had his son die horribly for that which we should have no part in.

You have a way of twisting things to suit your own ideas.....I have tried to show you how reasonable God’s expectations are of his people.....God sent his son to die for obedient ones....the ones who can simply do as they are told......the disobedient ones will soon see the error of their ways in trying to prop up man’s ever failing rulership in the hands of world leaders who are the devil’s puppets. If you side with the world, you side with its god......you are slaving for the wrong master.

 

[Triumph1300]

Jerusalem Post:​

Iran hits Israel in retaliation for the killing of top security chief​

Just make sure you don't watch the fake US news.
The following would make you wake up while things are really getting out of hand:

 

[doctrox]

Apostle Paul himself said he was a Jew (Ioudaois) of the tribe of Benjamin, so what really is the distinction with that title Jew?

He was tailoring his speech to his audience (it's a good thing).

So a Jew can also simply mean someone of another country that moves to an area, and takes the name of the people that live there,

...as the imposters have been doing for centuries, like the fake Jews currently wreaking havoc in the fake State of Israel.

 

[Triumph1300]

The sewer trickle from the White House:[/b

 

[Nancy]

I guess Fox is your choice.
--------------------------
This guy has brains.
Maybe watch more of him:

That was an excellent analysis of what is happening to the US right now. Thanks for sharing @Triumph1300

 

[Wrangler]

That is where the discussion should begin.....”on the face of it” you have been persuaded to become “part of the world” that is alienated from God....indoctrination with patriotic sentiments and an apparent love of war

So much of what you write in this opening sentence, it reveals so much of your JW indoctrination. No acknowledgement the verse you cite doesn’t say what you claim.

Reality: we ARE apart of the world. No one has to persuade me. Regarding the world being alienated from God, that is not totally true. Was the world alienated from God when he sent his own son? There is no way God could save the world IF we were fully alienated.

you have not adopted Christ’s view of violence.

When he returns, the first thing he‘ll do is violence, wage war against his enemies. Fully adopted.

 

[Davy]

He was tailoring his speech to his audience (it's a good thing).

Tailoring implies Paul was exaggerating. He was not. All those of the three tribe "house of Judah" that went captive to Babylon, and then returned, used the title of Jew for themselves. Likewise did the foreigners that went captive with them and returned to Jerusalem with them after their Babylon captivity.

...as the imposters have been doing for centuries, like the fake Jews currently wreaking havoc in the fake State of Israel.

Not a fake state, it was ordained by GOD Himself. Because in 1 Kings 11, God said He would always leave "one tribe" in Jerusalem for His servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the place where He said He has put His Name there. Now He did not say in that 1 Kings 11 Chapter just who would be in control over that "one tribe" (Judah) at the end of this world, but elsewhere He does hint, like in Jeremiah 24 about the evil basket of figs that was joined with Judah at Jerusalem.

 

[Wrangler]

Did Jesus meddle in the politics of his day?

Yes! He was executed for treason, claiming to be the King of the Jews. What do you think flipping the tables was all about; non-interference of revenue collection.

Did Jesus go on the internet in his day?

Jesus drank alcohol. John did not. What some are called to do is not what all are called to do.

 

[Wrangler]

Sorry.....what? How do you love your enemies with weapons of mass destruction? Are you serious?

You keep confusing personal with corporate responsibility. There is a difference between my enemies and the enemies Of my State.

 

[Jesussaves150]

If rockets and drone were fired into the USA action would have to be taken its no different for Israel.The USA would hit back as hard as Israel has.Should they let the rockets and drones just come in without responding?

 

[Nancy]

If rockets and drone were fired into the USA action would have to be taken its no different for Israel.The USA would hit back as hard as Israel has.Should they let the rockets and drones just come in without responding?

"Should they let the rockets and drones just come in with out responding?"

Should Iran??

 

[doctrox]

Tailoring implies Paul was exaggerating. He was not.

Rather, tailoring = customizing content and delivery.

Not a fake state, it was ordained by GOD Himself...

That's a quantum leap. There is much confusion, sown by the father of lies, over who and/or what is "Israel."

The present geographical so-called State of Israel (and the UN, the IMF and the World Bank) was funded into existence in the 40's by a satanist for his cabal's diabolical purposes.

Now He did not say in that 1 Kings 11 Chapter just who would be in control over that "one tribe" (Judah) at the end of this world,

True. Yet Jerusalem will be the world capital. Jerusalem is the power of antichrist, ala the UN world government.

To further illustrate, the former Prime Minister of Israel, Shimon Peres, shocked the entire world when he proposed that Jerusalem be selected as the "World Capital" of the emerging one world government. The Peres press release stated that the competing claims on the various holy sites in Jerusalem that are desired by Islamic, Christian, and Jewish interests could be satisfied if a larger governing body were to assume jurisdiction of the city.

Although the proposal is calculated to resolve the seething religious tension in Israel, there was no mistaking the central idea that is implied in the proposed internationalization of Jerusalem. For example, the news bureau World Net Daily reacted to the proposal by publishing the following headline: Jerusalem Touted As World's Capital.

As it that wasn't enough, the Israeli newspaper Maariv stated that as part of Shimon Peres' proposal for the internationalization of Jerusalem, the UN would be the political body that is to be placed in charge. Incredibly, Peres wants the Secretary-General of the United Nations to act as the "Mayor" of Jerusalem.

It should be obvious that in any city in the world, the Mayor of that city lives there - thus, this political proposal is subtly suggesting that the Secretary-General of the United Nations should move to Jerusalem. This would make the ancient metropolis the de facto world headquarters of the UN.

There is much more.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

[Jesussaves150]

Any country will respond to being attached if they can respond name one that won't?

 

[Aunty Jane]

So much of what you write in this opening sentence, it reveals so much of your JW indoctrination.

And can I ask what indoctrination was provided to you in a nation that has children from a very young age reciting the oath of allegiance? You do understand that the notion of “for God and country” is declaring opposite loyalties. Christians have no nationality spiritually speaking.....we are God’s Nation, totally separate from the nations of the world as we obtain citizenship in a place that is not part of the world ruled by the devil....

Go back to ancient Israel and see the separateness required of them….God’s people had no beliefs in common with the nations around them, unless they disobeyed God and adopted them. Then they were punished for that.

No acknowledgement the verse you cite doesn’t say what you claim.

I did acknowledge it and added the words of Jesus to confirm it. Did you not read John 17:16?
Short attention span again Wrangler?

Reality: we ARE apart of the world. No one has to persuade me. Regarding the world being alienated from God, that is not totally true. Was the world alienated from God when he sent his own son? There is no way God could save the world IF we were fully alienated.

Do you understand anything in the Bible? The whole world descended from Adam are alienated from God by the very sin born in us. The Father sent his son into the world to grant forgiveness to those who can admit their sinful condition, and humbly apologise for wrong doing.....turning from what God condemns and accepting the teachngs of his son...you were taught very early to divide your loyalties, but loyalty to your nation comes before loyalty to God and his son. Obedience to God comes first.

Christians cannot be a part of the world and its conflicts...we look to God’s kingdom for the solution to man’s woes….humans just keep contributing to them….none of them ever make things better and what little peace is achieved is short lived…..was it worth all the lives sacrificed for national pride?

When he returns, the first thing he‘ll do is violence, wage war against his enemies. Fully adopted.

And with what army will he come? He will not have humans to fight this battle. No human has fought a battle for God since the days of ancient Israel.
Do you understand that sanctioned executions are not on a par with man’s political violence? We have no sanction from God to join the world in its wars. Neither did Israel .(Isa 1:15)

if you want to be ‘a friend of the world, you make yourself an enemy of God’. (James 4:4)

The world will do whatever its ‘god’ dictates…..and that god can “blind” people to the truth….but only if they are “unbelievers”. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

 

[Aunty Jane]

You keep confusing personal with corporate responsibility. There is a difference between my enemies and the enemies Of my State.

I’m glad that you acknowledge the difference, because Christian principles preclude any involvement in bloodshed…..even Israel were precluded from conflicts that were not sanctioned by God…if they solicited military help from another nation, God abandoned them to their enemies. (Isa 1:15)

God sanctioned bloodshed only when Israel’s borders were threatened. And when Israel disobeyed as they often did, he allowed the other nation to conquer them…..and destroy their city and its Temple….that is how strongly Jehovah feels about obedience.

The world will do whatever it wishes….and it can shed blood by the bucketload, but it will still answer to God for the life it destroys…
Gen 9: 5-6…To Noah after his exit from the ark, Jehovah said….
“Besides that, I will demand an accounting for your lifeblood. I will demand an accounting from every living creature; and from each man I will demand an accounting for the life of his brother. 6  Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image He made man.”

You don’t have to answer to me…..but everyone will answer to Jehovah….you can count on that.

 

[n2thelight]

Should we support the state of Israel or not as Christians? Thank you

Not

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes! He was executed for treason, claiming to be the King of the Jews.

No, actually he claimed to be “the son of God”...which he was. (John 10:36)
They claimed it was blasphemy because they wanted an excuse to have him executed. (John 5:18)

You are not a Bible student are you Wrangler....you just fish for what others tell you, and fill in the blanks for yourself....not a smart thing to do, when research is so easy to do these days.
Educate yourself....and you wont have to post such lame excuses.

What do you think flipping the tables was all about; non-interference of revenue collection.

It was exactly what Jesus said it was....they were ripping off their own brothers by charging them excessively for sacrificial animals right there in the Temple.....sacrifices were part of their worship. Coming from far away lands, it was difficult to bring the animal with them, so they sought a suitable animal there in Jerusalem, at the Temple where the merchants were waiting to exploit their need, and their own greed for money. They made God’s House into “a den of thieves”....I presume you know what righteous indignation is....?

Did Jesus go on the internet in his day?

Again with things plucked out of thin air....what has the internet got to do with Jesus?
You try to apply things that are ridiculous. Jesus didn’t eat chocolate bars....so what?

Jesus drank alcohol. John did not.

Do you know why Jesus drank wine but John did not? Again what does that have to do with anything?
You appear to be grasping at straws......or creating strawmen?

What some are called to do is not what all are called to do.

What some are called to do is clearly stated in the Bible, and what they are not called to is also clearly stated....
No Christian can serve in the military, or to be involved with the governance of their country because of who is running this show.....clearly stated by the apostle John....”the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one”.....are you in any doubt about who that “wicked one” (singular) is?

 

[Christian Soldier]

For the 3rd time
I didn't say what you claimed
You are proving to be a liar
Satan is the father of lies

You need to either repent of the evil thig you said or own it. You can't wiggle you way out of the charge against you. You lied about Israel, (Satan is the father of liars and you just proved yourself to be one of His children).

You never defended the charges I bought against you, I quoted you and you still deny it. Your Father didn't tell you that you need a good memory, if you're going to be a convincing liar.

What evidence do you have that "Israel is as bad as the Islamic nations"?????? answer Zero evidence, you're just foolish liar.

What evidence do you have that Israel is "always bombing or attacking someone"??????????????? answer Zero.......... your just a foolish liar.

You haven't fooled anyone, except for yourself.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Ouch!

Well, I provided Scripture to support my position. You didn't. If that doesn't move you, bless your heart!

We agree on the OP question; we should support Israel. @Aunty Jane doesn't agree for reasons she provided ... make a blessed day.

Sorry I didn't know you were Biblically illiterate, and require scriptures to prove every single thing I say. I'm not a false professing believer, I never deny or contradict anything God has said. You try to be pragmatic and defend those who accuse God of being a liar, but it won't help them or your own testimony.

1 Cor 5:12-13 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Paul defines the church's responsibility to judge those inside, urging them to "purge the evil person". This as a duty to hold believers accountable for unrepentant sin.
Matt 18:15-17 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
This establishes the multi-step process for handling sin: private confrontation, involving witnesses, and finally bringing it to the church.

I'm not going to list a truck load of verses to prove a Bible doctrine that anyone claiming to be a Christian should already know. I don't have the time to teach you, so I suggest you go and join a bible class for beginners then come back when you learn the basics.