The Current War against Iran and Support for Israel is based on Catholic Counter Reformation Theology.

[dad]

Yes. Believers of the house of David, Judas et al among them.

Heaven bound.

Prove it. Jesus called him son of perdition.

 

[covenantee]

Prove it. Jesus called him son of perdition.

Dispens believe that the remnant, which according to Zechariah 12:10 includes the house of David, and of which Judas was a member, will be saved.

Prove that.

 

[dad]

Dispens believe that the remnant, which according to Zechariah 12:10 includes the house of David, and of which Judas was a member, will be saved.

Prove that.

He pours out on the saved. No other part of the descendants of David. It is not a physical lineage. The bloodline is Jesus! Trying to stick Judas in there shows us that you do not comprehend what you are reading. The only Israel left alive will be the remnant and they get saved. No Judas involved or any unbeliever. Israel will be holy. So He will pour out on the house of David. No unbelievers will be in the house. You should not confuse secular 'Israel' with actual Israel. (believers) Whats left of the house of David will all get saved. That is who gets the blessing. Not unbelievers dead or alive.

 

[grafted branch]

I seems possible that the sun was pictured often as joy in former times.

The sun of Zion, if it refers to it's joy, might make better sense

Again, if the sun was something like their happiness or joy, then naturally if we say their sun will not go down anymore it just means they will not be gloomy or sad anymore.

As above

Well currently there is no the joy of the Lord in Israel. If it is present tense. If talking future, then -- as above

In this context, if the sun represents the joy of Israel then it would not be sunny now. If it talked about the sun not going away, I guess that could refer to their joy not being taken away any more.


No.

Tapp is the only one who might possibly suggest that the sun represents joy, no scriptural references are given for that and it would differ from the other commentaries that suggest the sun is Messiah or Jehovah’s light. Really, I think Tapp is just saying that when the sun doesn’t go down there is joy, which I would agree with.

There are several verses that call God sun, such as Psalm 84:11 and Malachi 4:2, but I can’t find any verses that specifically call the sun joy. This appears to be speculation on your part to support your narrative. Your narrative can’t have the sun be God and God be the reason for Israel’s joy when He’s up and Israel’s calamity when He’s down.

If the sun represents God or Messiah, which I think is reasonable, then there is only one sun for everyone, Jew and Gentile. You’d have to argue that the one and only sun is currently up for the Gentiles while at the same time it’s down for Israel, so you’re avoiding that problem by trying to claim that the sun itself is joy only and nothing else. I would say that’s a likely reason as to why the commentaries also avoided saying both the sun was God and that God was the reason for their joy, although that should be fairly obvious.

I guess you can use your old stand by argument and say nothing is impossible for God.

No.

Your answer is no, it’s impossible for God to do that, ok.
You can make the Bible say anything you want by using that method of interpretation, whatever you say it’s possible for God to do but whatever I say it’s impossible for God to do.

 

[PinSeeker]

Judas was not saved. Peter repented and was restored for his denial of Jesus, and he is remembered as the rock, not primarily as the denier of Christ. But Judas never turned from his sin and bears the shame of his deed forever. Now, Judas is remorseful after the fact, changing his mind about the wisdom of his deed after seeing Jesus condemned. But, unlike Peter, Judas does not feel the “godly grief” of repentance, and so is not repentant... he does not really try to stop what he has started and will not testify of Christ’s innocence before Pilate. Were Judas repentant, justice and righteousness would have moved him to intervene on Jesus’ behalf. Godly sorrow leads people to run to God, but Judas’ despair makes him run into the arms of death. He was one of those who John talks about in 1 John 2:19... "went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

Wow. These conversations are so wide-ranging in such a short period of time. No telling how you guys got here, but okay... <smile>

Grace and peace!

 

[marks]

U.S. Troops Were Told Iran War Is for “Armageddon,” Return of Jesus

Advocacy group reports commanders giving similar messages at more than 30 installations in every branch of the military

jonathanlarsen.substack.com

No bias there . . .

"He said, “Any military members seeking to take advantage of their subordinates by advancing their blood-soaked, Christian nationalist wet dreams upon the flames of this latest non-Congressionally sanctioned attack against Iran, should be swiftly, aggressively and visibly prosecuted.”"



Compare to Hegseth . . .

"Hegseth himself also speaks at these meetings, proselytizing his personal religious beliefs. “This is … I think, exactly where we need to be as a nation, at this moment,” Hegseth reportedly said, “in prayer, on bended knee, recognizing the providence of our lord and savior Jesus Christ.”"

I sure don't have a problem with this.

Who is the person who wrote this article? Why isn't this splashed across every left wing outlet? What is the credibility?

"This morning our commander opened up the combat readiness status briefing by urging us to not be “afraid” as to what is happening with our combat operations in Iran right now. He urged us to tell our troops that this was “all part of God’s divine plan” and he specifically referenced numerous citations out of the Book of Revelation referring to Armageddon and the imminent return of Jesus Christ. He said that “President Trump has been anointed by Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran to cause Armageddon and mark his return to Earth”. He had a big grin on his face when he said all of this which made his message seem even more crazy."

Everyone has their smart phones recording everything. Not to mention, this is Muslim sort of talk, not Christian.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

He pours out on the saved. No other part of the descendants of David. It is not a physical lineage. The bloodline is Jesus! Trying to stick Judas in there shows us that you do not comprehend what you are reading. The only Israel left alive will be the remnant and they get saved. No Judas involved or any unbeliever. Israel will be holy. So He will pour out on the house of David. No unbelievers will be in the house. You should not confuse secular 'Israel' with actual Israel. (believers) Whats left of the house of David will all get saved. That is who gets the blessing. Not unbelievers dead or alive.

Glad to see that you don't toe the dispenline.

 

[PinSeeker]

The bloodline is Jesus!

Right, or... the true vine, as Jesus says in John 15: "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit." <smile> And all we in Christ are grafted in (Romans 11:17 [Gentile believers] and Romans 11:24 [Jewish believers]) ~ so one in Him ~ right?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[dad]

Tapp is the only one who might possibly suggest that the sun represents joy, no scriptural references are given for that and it would differ from the other commentaries that suggest the sun is Messiah or Jehovah’s light. Really, I think Tapp is just saying that when the sun doesn’t go down there is joy, which I would agree with.

There are several verses that call God sun, such as Psalm 84:11 and Malachi 4:2, but I can’t find any verses that specifically call the sun joy. This appears to be speculation on your part to support your narrative. Your narrative can’t have the sun be God and God be the reason for Israel’s joy when He’s up and Israel’s calamity when He’s down.

If the sun represents God or Messiah, which I think is reasonable, then there is only one sun for everyone, Jew and Gentile. You’d have to argue that the one and only sun is currently up for the Gentiles while at the same time it’s down for Israel, so you’re avoiding that problem by trying to claim that the sun itself is joy only and nothing else. I would say that’s a likely reason as to why the commentaries also avoided saying both the sun was God and that God was the reason for their joy, although that should be fairly obvious.

I guess you can use your old stand by argument and say nothing is impossible for God.

We know God will never leave or forsake us. His 'sun' will never go down. So what will go down? Sadness etc. What will not go down? The lovely joyful light of God. His blessing. Etc. Not after the remnant are saved. What we should not do is look for or try to apply some interpretation that does not fit the rest of Scripture. For example, that God's ordinances go wonky and so therefore He can go ahead and forsake believing Israel in the end.

Your answer is no, it’s impossible for God to do that, ok.

It is impossible for Him to lie. So we can relax. Get some interpretation that agrees with that fact.

You can make the Bible say anything you want by using that method of interpretation, whatever you say it’s possible for God to do but whatever I say it’s impossible for God to do.

It says all over that He is true and will never forsake us, and that He will restore those surviving remnant in the end. It is not me trying to make some opposite fantasy true here.

 

[dad]

Glad to see that you don't toe the dispenline.

Not sure is that is sarcasm or whatever. I don't much follow the religious terms like dispensation etc - and and not very familiar with what they believe or preach.

 

[dad]

Right, or... the true vine, as Jesus says in John 15: "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit." <smile> And all we in Christ are grafted in (Romans 11:17 [Gentile believers] and Romans 11:24 [Jewish believers]) ~ so one in Him ~ right?

Grace and peace to you.

We are all one big happy family. The saved remnant of the end included. In a family, one child might grow up be a dentist, another a salesman, another a stay at home parent, and another a delivery driver. It doesn't mean they all have to live in the same town or do the same thing. The saved remnant are promised a certain land. Believers in general are promised a heavenly city. I do not see How some few believers living on earth after Jesus returns and being restored as He promises is a problem for some people. After all Jesus will be ruling the nations on earth, and believers will be helping. The rule will center from Jerusalem. So how is it a bad thing to have some 'boots on the ground' of believers in the promised land? (even is they often 'furlough' to New Jerusalem and visit? Or how is is a bad thing if we live in new Jerusalem in the millennium, and commute to earth to help rule?

 

[covenantee]

Not sure is that is sarcasm or whatever. I don't much follow the religious terms like dispensation etc - and and not very familiar with what they believe or preach.

They believe and preach salvation via Jewish DNA.

Glad you don't.

 

[dad]

They believe and preach salvation via Jewish DNA.

Glad you don't.

Oh. Amen. They get saved like everyone else. God just knows that some survivors of Israel will decide to do that in the end.

 

[grafted branch]

We know God will never leave or forsake us. His 'sun' will never go down. So what will go down? Sadness etc. What will not go down? The lovely joyful light of God. His blessing. Etc. Not after the remnant are saved.

Ok, I think we are in agreement that people who currently believe, both Jew and Gentile, their Sun never goes down. Your statement about after the remnant are saved applies to everyone who becomes a believer right now and in the future, not just the future. It’s a current reality, the new covenant is eternal.

What we should not do is look for or try to apply some interpretation that does not fit the rest of Scripture. For example, that God's ordinances go wonky and so therefore He can go ahead and forsake believing Israel in the end.

Exactly, Jeremiah 31 is all about the covenants, so trying to force the old covenant ordinances of the sun and moon to remain before God so unbelieving old covenant Israel can remain a nation before God, forever, doesn’t fit the rest of scripture. Believing Israel is saved by faith under the new covenant, and Christ being our sun in the new covenant replaces the celestial sun and moon movements that were to be observed in order to obey the old covenant laws.

For example, under the old covenant they couldn’t know when to have a daily sacrifice without observing the celestial sun coming up and going down. Once the old covenant became invalid through the death of Christ the ordinances of the old covenant, including those that pertain to the celestial bodies, were no longer before God. No more daily sacrifices, the Sun never goes down under the new covenant once the one time sacrifice is made.

I don’t expect you to agree with that since you are fixated on the nation of Israel rather than Christ , at least when it comes to the verses we are looking at.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, you are saying they will not get that promised land. Be honest

I am being honest. I'm saying they will get something better than that. I'm not just making that up. That is what I believe. So, don't tell me I'm not being honest.

AFTER He comes of course. Not before. During the tribulation, even the last part is legit

Strawman argument. When He is already here and destroying enemies that is too late. 5 minutes before that - fine and dandy.

LOL! Okay, sure.

Your position is weak, confused and unsupportable

You must have my position confused with your own. Almost every single argument you make is a complete joke. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

People of all nations are saved. In the case of the pitiful survivors in Israel, they all believe. He is no respecter of persons so He saves even them!

LOL! Nice dodge. You obviously do not even know what it means to be a respecter of persons. You have God saving all people in Israel but not all people in any other nation. The epitome of being a respecter of persons.

In bringing them to the place where they finally see. He doesn't magically make them accept Him. They decide. Just like the rest of us all decide to be saved or not.

So, they would literally all make that decision all at once? Really? No.

On the contrary. Despite their crimes and rejections and sins through ages, He accepts even them when they believe. Whosoever will, let him come. No respect of persons. Try to respect the promises too!

You clearly have no idea of what being a respecter of persons means. You are just not someone I can't take seriously at all. I'm not wasting any more time on your nonsense.

 

[dad]

Ok, I think we are in agreement that people who currently believe, both Jew and Gentile, their Sun never goes down. Your statement about after the remnant are saved applies to everyone who becomes a believer right now and in the future, not just the future. It’s a current reality, the new covenant is eternal.

OK, so also to the saved remnant

Exactly, Jeremiah 31 is all about the covenants, so trying to force the old covenant ordinances of the sun and moon to remain before God so unbelieving old covenant Israel can remain a nation before God, forever, doesn’t fit the rest of scripture.

So how about the sun and moon will remain even in the new earth? (made new)

Believing Israel is saved by faith under the new covenant, and Christ being our sun in the new covenant replaces the celestial sun and moon movements that were to be observed in order to obey the old covenant laws.

Nothing replaces promises. I would go with an interpretation that has the sun and moon and ordinances still here. The fact that spiritual bodies in heaven do not need the light from the sun doesn't mean it is not still doing it's thing on earth. In the 1000 years crops grow. Sounds like the sun is there.

For example, under the old covenant they couldn’t know when to have a daily sacrifice without observing the celestial sun coming up and going down.

And maybe the Jewish brethren living in Israel in the millennium will do some things based on sunrises etc as well. No problem

Once the old covenant became invalid through the death of Christ the ordinances of the old covenant, including those that pertain to the celestial bodies, were no longer before God.

Yet the sun and moon were still here when Jesus rose from the dead. It will be here in the 1000 years and I daresay here forever in the new earth probably. The ordinances are fine, thank you very much

No more daily sacrifices, the Sun never goes down under the new covenant once the one time sacrifice is made.

Actually I seem to recall some sort of sacrifices going on in the millennium ( scholars say probably memorial sacrifices)

I don’t expect you to agree with that since you are fixated on the nation of Israel rather than Christ , at least when it comes to the verses we are looking at.

I see both. It is Jesus that save them, restores them, destroys their enemies etc etc.

 

[dad]

I am being honest. I'm saying they will get something better than that. I'm not just making that up. That is what I believe. So, don't tell me I'm not being honest.

That means they will not get that promised land, regardless of what else they get. So you are saying they won't get it. Also that we can go ahead and toss the many promises of God that say they will in the garbage

LOL! Okay, sure.


You must have my position confused with your own. Almost every single argument you make is a complete joke. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

The truth may sound foreign and funny to some.

LOL! Nice dodge. You obviously do not even know what it means to be a respecter of persons. You have God saving all people in Israel but not all people in any other nation. The epitome of being a respecter of persons.

Yes treating some different than others. All are saved by belief in Jesus. The remnant too. Where is your claimed respect of persons there?

So, they would literally all make that decision all at once? Really? No.

Yes. How long does it take to get saved? Even if we stretch it out over, say, a week, and they all finally see the light, great! Or a few days. Or a day! Not necessarily the same 1/ 1/100 o a second!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes treating some different than others. All are saved by belief in Jesus. The remnant too. Where is your claimed respect of persons there?

You believe that God will ensure that all of them will believe. There is no possibility that they would all just happen to decide to believe all at once. That isn't reasonable whatsoever. So, you have God doing something for that nation that He won't do for any other nation in relation to salvation. You have Him showing favoritism towards them during that time as it relates to salvation. That makes God out to be a respecter of persons. You are contradicting His character with your beliefs, but you just don't have enough discernment to understand that.

 

[The Light]

They believe and preach salvation via Jewish DNA.

Glad you don't.

Please. You and your DNA.

Please provide proof of this ignorance.

It's you that thinks God needs DNA to know what a Jew is.

 

[dad]

You believe that God will ensure that all of them will believe.

No. I never said that. Most will not. Only some survivors will decide to believe, God does not make them. He just knows they will

There is no possibility that they would all just happen to decide to believe all at once.

It is a certainty. Prophesy is a good as done. A nation can be born is a day with God!

That isn't reasonable whatsoever.

He is more than just reasonable.

So, you have God doing something for that nation that He won't do for any other nation in relation to salvation.

No. They are the ones dong something. They do their part and accept Jesus. He does His part and saves them

You have Him showing favoritism towards them during that time as it relates to salvation.

No. They come to Him. He does not cast them out when they do. That is the actual nature of God

That makes God out to be a respecter of persons.

Once again you are not understanding. He is not going presto chango with a selected group of people. Multitudes too big to count from every nation are saved in that period. There are also a pitiful little group of Jewish survivors that choose to believe finally. You make it sound like He tossed everyone else in hell and forced the remnant to be saved. No. In no conceivable way does God also saving some Jewish people who come to Him mean a respect of persons.

You are contradicting His character with your beliefs, but you just don't have enough discernment to understand that.

His character is mercy. His character is fulfilling His word and promises. His character is not casting away any who come to Him.