I obviously agree and can't comprehend how anyone could disagree. A judgment seat and judgment throne (as Matthew 25:31 mentions) are clearly the same thing.
Obviously, you can't think that or else you'd be an amill. Yet, how is it possible that Matthew 25:41 is referring to something different than Revelation 20:15? Do you believe that the "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" is the same as the lake of fire?
That's not even an argument that can be taken seriously at all. All of the passages that speak of the day of judgment make it clear that it will occur in the future and is not a current, ongoing thing.
That's what you think, but that is not true. Each passage brings up different aspects of the judgment, but Matthew 25:31-46 clearly portrays literally all people being gathered before Christ to be judged, just as passages like Romans 14:10-12 say will happen. Passages like John 5:28-29 have all of the dead being resurrected at the same hour/time to be judged, so Matthew 25:31-46 must include all of the resurrected dead without exception. The only ones who will not have died at that point are believers who are alive when Jesus returns and they too will appear before Him after their bodies are changed to put on bodily immortality.
Where does Matthew 25:31-46 mention profitable and unprofitable servants? Nowhere. It talks about those who served Christ and those who didn't. Matthew 25:41 portrays the goats as being cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels". That is clearly a reference to the same thing called "the lake of fire". Or what Jesus called "the furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:42,50). Where do you get the idea that people will be cast into the lake of fire on multiple occasions? Scripture never teaches that. Revelation 20:15 makes it clear that all whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire at the same time.
The following passage also makes it clear that all people will be judged at the same time.
Matthew 13:47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
In this parable, Jesus figuratively represents all people with sea creatures "of every kind" who are gathered into a net until "it was full". So, He is clearly talking about all people here without exception both "good" and "bad" being gathered at the same time with "the just" being separated from "the wicked" and the wicked being cast into the furnace of fire.
Just because some passages focus on the fate of believers while differentiating between true, committed believers and uncommitted believers does not mean that is the case in every passage that talks about the judgment. Passages like Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 25:31-46 refer to the judgment of all people at the same time. Passages like John 5:28-29 refer to the judgment of all of the dead after they are resurrected at the same time. You can't just cherry pick these other passages and form conclusions from them while ignoring other passages like these that I mentioned.
I'm not. What basis is there for insisting that Matthew 25:31-46 has to have the exact same context as the passage about profitable and unprofitable servants? None. That's just based on your doctrinal bias. What evidence do you have in scripture to suggest that people will be cast into the lake of fire on more than one occasion? Jesus said in Matthew 12:30 that anyone who is not with Him is against Him. So, why act as if Jesus never spoke of two groups consisting of all those who are saved and all those who are lost?
This is an argument from silence. Each judgment passage focuses on different aspects of the judgment and doesn't contain every detail related to it.
Do you claim that Revelation 20:15 is somehow a different event than this...
Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
And this...
Matthew 13:49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Are you serious? Matthew 25:31-46 clearly depicts are judgment according to each person's works because Jesus talks about what each person did or did not do for "the least of these".
i choose to address your post like such. But if it's not satisfactory, sue me, I guess. Be warned though, it ended up being somewhat lengthy, unfortunately. And when you type with one finger only like I do, it's not like I typed all of that out in a minute or 2 like you typically might if you made a post just as lengthy, for example.
Prove you are being consistent here. If your view is that the goats represent all of the lost from the beginning of time through the end of time, this would mean you need to treat the following in the same manner, for example.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Do you then take all of these meant here, who Jesus says He never knew them, to be meaning all of the lost from the beginning of time through the end of time? Probably not, would be my guess. But then again, you never know when it comes to you and how you tend to discern and reason things at times?
Take note what these in Matthew 7 have in common with the goats in Matthew 25. They are both addressing Jesus as Lord, as in having a professed relationship with. Everyone knows, including you, what is meant by Lord, Lord in Matthew 7. I would be baffled big time if you didn't. Therefore, like I said, including you. It is meaning a professed relationship with, thus isn't meaning in general that Jesus is Lord. Clearly, Jesus is Lord, yet not everyone acknowledges Him as such. Atheists, for example, certainly don't. Nor do unbelieving Jews, another example. Yet the goats per Matthew 25 undeniably acknowledge Him as Lord, as in a personal relationship with.
And the ironic thing about it, you fully agree that NOSAS is Biblical. Then when a passage is clearly supporting it, the sheep and goats judgment in this case, you refuse to use that passage to support it, even though it is one of the clearer passages in the NT that support NOSAS.
The following alone proves it---Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Compare that with James 2:14-20, for example. Surely, you possess enough discernment to see the connection. Which then begs the question, what in the world does--Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these and James 2:14-20 have to do with all of the lost from the beginning of time through the end of time? Which would have to include Cain, unrepentant atheists, unrepentant unbelieving Jews, IOW, anybody but unprofitable professed servants of his in the body of Christ?
God forbid that it can be meaning any of them. Or that it does include them, but not only them, all of the lost from the beginning of time through the end of time. As if it makes sense, that atheists, for example, that faith and works and believing mean anything to them one way or the other(something James 2:14-20 is pertaining to and that Jesus is telling the goats they neglected to do)
My goal here is to at least get you to think, except I'm not convinced you even actually take the time to think things through further before deciding that you are correct about all these things. The fact your answers are always quick and are always from within the theological box you have placed everything, thus anything outside of that box of yours must be speedily rejected, tends to prove it.
I don't know how you can be as intelligent as you are, then think there is nothing else to figure out, that you have figured out everything there is to figure out, and that what you have figured out, none of it is in error, none of it can be understood in a different manner instead? That doesn't mean you're not wrong about some things. But not wrong about everything, though?
