The "sudden destruction" from which unbelievers "will not escape" on the day of the Lord will be caused by fire coming down on the earth.

[Spiritual Israelite]

I can understand the ignorance of Pre and Post Millennialists, however
of all people, you as an Amillenialist, you should easily understand what is being performed for us born again Christians during this figurative 1000 years of God's grace.

You are the ignorant one here. No one has yet bowed before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of themselves. You are ignorantly turning something simple into something complicated because of your tendency to spiritualize everything you read. Jesus Himself made it clear that it will happen when He comes again with His angels (Matthew 25:31-46). That has not yet happened. To think otherwise requires a very high level of ignorance. You do believe that Jesus will come with His angels in the future, don't you?

 

[Earburner]

You are the ignorant one here. No one has yet bowed before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of themselves. You are ignorantly turning something simple into something complicated because of your tendency to spiritualize everything you read. Jesus Himself made it clear that it will happen when He comes again with His angels (Matthew 25:31-46). That has not yet happened. To think otherwise requires a very high level of ignorance. You do believe that Jesus will come with His angels in the future, don't you?

Lol!!! Do you realize what you are saying about yourself???
You are saying, as a professing born again Christian, that YOU yourself have NOT SUBMITTED (BOWED) yourself under the Lordship of Christ.

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not [bowed] submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lol!!! Do you realize what you are saying about yourself???

Yes, I do, but you clearly don't.

You are saying, as a professing born again Christian, that YOU yourself have NOT SUBMITTED (BOWED) yourself under the Lordship of Christ.

No, I am not saying that. I have done that. Any other lies about me that you want to tell? I have not yet appeared before Jesus to give an account of myself and neither have you. Very simple. Don't foolishly put words in my mouth. You will be very surprised when you appear before Jesus after He comes again and are asked to give an account of the life you have lived in relation to how you treated "the least of these" and such, as portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46. You do believe that Jesus will come in the future with His angels, don't you? I already asked you this and you didn't answer for some reason. Are you secretly a full preterist?

 

[Earburner]

Lol!!! Do you realize what you are saying about yourself???
You are saying, as a professing born again Christian, that YOU yourself have NOT SUBMITTED (BOWED) yourself under the Lordship of Christ.

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not [bowed] submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

By your "visible" response, it is evident that you don't really understand the words: "to bow down".

 

[Earburner]

Yes, I do, but you clearly don't.


No, I am not saying that. I have done that. Any other lies about me that you want to tell? I have not yet appeared before Jesus to give an account of myself and neither have you. Very simple. Don't foolishly put words in my mouth. You will be very surprised when you appear before Jesus after He comes again and are asked to give an account of the life you have lived in relation to how you treated "the least of these" and such, as portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46. You do believe that Jesus will come in the future with His angels, don't you? I already asked you this and you didn't answer for some reason. Are you secretly a full preterist?

Yes!!! In the day of your conversion, You DID APPEAR BEFORE Jesus and gave an account of yourself in the confession of your sinful self of who you are/were!!
The unsaved die daily and permanently. For all that do, they shall NEVER, EVER appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ. John 3:18 SAYS SO!!

I am not here to produce lies about people! So stop with the attacks.

Of course I answered you about the visible fiery return of the Lord. I quote those scriptures numerous times, whereby even you have been a recipient of them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes!!! In the day of your conversion, You DID APPEAR BEFORE Jesus and gave an account of yourself in the confession of your sinful self of who you are/were!!
The unsaved die daily and permanently. For all that do, they shall NEVER, EVER appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ. John 3:18 SAYS SO!!

Isaiah 45:22-24, which Paul references in Romans 14:11 in relation to the judgment seat of Christ, says otherwise. All people, including believers, will bow before Christ on His judgment seat and confess that He is Lord. Do you deny that unbelievers will ever bow before Him and confess that He is Lord? You better believe they will. But, not as an act of repentance. It will be as an act of shame for not acknowledging it when they had the chance to do so and be saved.

I am not here to produce lies about people! So stop with the attacks.

You said that I was saying "as a professing born again Christian, that YOU yourself have NOT SUBMITTED (BOWED) yourself under the Lordship of Christ". That is a lie. I'm not attacking you, I'm rebuking you for lying about me.

 

[Earburner]

You are the ignorant one here. No one has yet bowed before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of themselves. You are ignorantly turning something simple into something complicated because of your tendency to spiritualize everything you read. Jesus Himself made it clear that it will happen when He comes again with His angels (Matthew 25:31-46). That has not yet happened. To think otherwise requires a very high level of ignorance. You do believe that Jesus will come with His angels in the future, don't you?

As an Amillennial believer, from my perspective, it's very simple.
You and I HAVE already appeared before the Judgment Seat of Christ, as ALL MUST do. BUT we both do know that there ARE MANY that DO NOT!!
Unfortunately, Pre and Post Millennial believers are IGNORANT about WHEN ALL MUST APPEAR. As a result, they put it off into the future, robbing many of the faithful from "His peace that passes all understanding", thus causing SAVED people to DOUBT their salvation.

Isaiah 45:22-24, which Paul references in Romans 14:11 in relation to the judgment seat of Christ, says otherwise. All people, including believers, will bow before Christ on His judgment seat and confess that He is Lord. Do you deny that unbelievers will ever bow before Him and confess that He is Lord? You better believe they will. But, not as an act of repentance. It will be as an act of shame for not acknowledging it when they had the chance to do so and be saved.

I don't deny that at all!! The Judgment Seat of Christ began on the Day of Pentecost, and will be active up to the Day of His Glorious fiery return 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

You said that I was saying "as a professing born again Christian, that YOU yourself have NOT SUBMITTED (BOWED) yourself under the Lordship of Christ". That is a lie. I'm not attacking you, I'm rebuking you for lying about me.

I was challenging your thinking as being Pre/Post Millennial view instead of Amillennial view.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As an Amillennial believer, from my perspective, it's very simple.

It's very simple from my perspective as an Amillennial believer, also. Yet, we disagree on this. Obviously, Amillennialism, in and of itself, doesn't dictate how one views this particular topic.

You and I HAVE already appeared before the Judgment Seat of Christ, as ALL MUST do. BUT we both do know that there ARE MANY that DO NOT!!
Unfortunately, Pre and Post Millennial believers are IGNORANT about WHEN ALL MUST APPEAR. As a result, they put it off into the future, robbing many of the faithful from "His peace that passes all understanding", thus causing SAVED people to DOUBT their salvation.

According to Jesus Himself, all must appear before Him when He comes with His angels. That has not yet happened. Very simple.

I don't deny that at all!! The Judgment Seat of Christ began on the Day of Pentecost, and will be active up to the Day of His Glorious fiery return 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

Paul did not indicate that appearing before the judgment seat of Christ was occurring yet when he wrote about it. He wrote about it as a future event. That's how I see it and nothing you can do can change my mind about it. It's time for you and I to just agree to disagree about this.

I was challenging your thinking as being Pre/Post Millennial view instead of Amillennial view.

That's nonsense. What you claimed I was saying was 100% false. You completed misrepresented what I believe. My view of this does not contradict the Amillennial view at all. Premils deny that everyone will be judged on the day Jesus returns and they say unbelievers will be judged 1,000+ years later. Matthew 25:31-46 proves that wrong. And, with that, I have nothing more to say to you about this topic.

 

[Earburner]

It's very simple from my perspective as an Amillennial believer, also. Yet, we disagree on this. Obviously, Amillennialism, in and of itself, doesn't dictate how one views this particular topic.

Agreed! Unfortunately church-ianity has taken advantage of it, according to "the wisdom of men", and has set it into the far future, just like 70th week of Dan. 9.

According to Jesus Himself, all must appear before Him when He comes with His angels. That has not yet happened. Very simple.

According to Jesus, Luke 17:28-30 says that destruction towards all the unsaved, including those left in the graves, will be burned to a crisp by flaming fire and molten lava in that 24 hour day.

Paul did not indicate that appearing before the judgment seat of Christ was occurring yet when he wrote about it. He wrote about it as a future event. That's how I see it and nothing you can do can change my mind about it. It's time for you and I to just agree to disagree about this.

Paul did not designate it to be a future event. Church-ianity [the wisdom of men] interprets it that way.

That's nonsense. What you claimed I was saying was 100% false. You completed misrepresented what I believe. My view of this does not contradict the Amillennial view at all. Premils deny that everyone will be judged on the day Jesus returns and they say unbelievers will be judged 1,000+ years later. Matthew 25:31-46 proves that wrong. And, with that, I have nothing more to say to you about this topic.

The current view about the Judgment Seat of Christ is exactly what church-ianity DOES dictate it to be. How they view it, is after the same manner of how they view the 70th week of Dan. 9. Its being pushed out into the far future.
Ignorantly, Amillenialism has gone along for the ride.
I am opposed to "their" view. Whether you agree with what I am saying or not, Scripturally and contextually it is not sound doctrine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Agreed! Unfortunately church-ianity has taken advantage of it, according to "the wisdom of men", and has set into the far future, just like 70th week of Dan. 9.

According to Jesus, Luke 17:28-30 says that destruction towards all the unsaved, including those left in the graves, will be burned to a crisp by flaming fire and molten lava in that 24 hour day.

You really need to ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7) because you just butcher scripture sometimes. That passage is only talking about physical destruction, not destruction of "those left in the graves". Your own human wisdom (wisdom of man) is leading you astray.

Paul did not designate it to be a future event.

Yes, he absolutely did. He did not speak of it in present tense.

Church-ianity [the wisdom of men] interprets it that way.

This kind of gibberish does nothing to promote good discussion. You are relying on your own human wisdom for understanding here. That is clear. This "Church-ianity" nonsense is ridiculous. I don't get my understanding from "Churchianity".

The current view about the Judgment Seat of Christ is exactly what church-ianity DOES dictate it to be. How they view it, is after the same manner of how they view the 70th week of Dan. 9. Its being pushed out into the far future.

Get serious. I do not see the 70th week of Daniel 9 as being in the future, so my view has nothing to do with "churchianity". Good grief. Unreal.

Ignorantly, Amillenialism has gone along for the ride.

Most Amills do not believe that the 70th week of Daniel 9 will be fulfilled in the future. Are you a full preterist or something? You seem to be against the idea of anything being fulfilled in the future.

I am opposed to "their" view. Whether you agree with what I am saying or not,

I absolutely do not and it has nothing to do with "churchianity". You came up with that to hide your own flawed human wisdom.

Scripturally and contextually it is not sound doctrine.

Yet, you are completely unable to back that up with scripture, so those are empty words. Jesus very clearly indicated that the judgment where He would be on His throne/judgment seat will occur when He comes again with His angels. Unless you deny that He will come in the future with His angels, you should understand that people appearing before His judgment seat to give an account of themselves will occur when He returns in the future. But, you are so stuck on this imaginary "churchianity" nonsense, that you can't see how far off base your own view is.

 

[Earburner]

Agreed! Unfortunately church-ianity has taken advantage of it, according to "the wisdom of men", and has set it into the far future, just like 70th week of Dan. 9.

According to Jesus, Luke 17:28-30 says that destruction towards all the unsaved, including those left in the graves, will be burned to a crisp by flaming fire and molten lava in that 24 hour day.

Paul did not designate it to be a future event. Church-ianity [the wisdom of men] interprets it that way.

The current view about the Judgment Seat of Christ is exactly what church-ianity DOES dictate it to be. How they view it, is after the same manner of how they view the 70th week of Dan. 9. Its being pushed out into the far future.
Ignorantly, Amillenialism has gone along for the ride.
I am opposed to "their" view. Whether you agree with what I am saying or not, Scripturally and contextually it is not sound doctrine.

If you want equal respect from other born again Christians, STOP your insulting JUDGMENTS of others with your use of the EMOJI images.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you want equal respect from other born again Christians, STOP your insulting JUDGMENTS of others with your use of the EMOJI images.

Using emojis is not against the rules. If you don't want me to laugh at your posts, then stop talking about all that churchianity nonsense and stop saying ridiculous things such as that Luke 17:28-30 has something to do with destroying those in the graves when it instead clearly has the context of the physical destruction of living unbelievers long ago in Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Earburner]

Its very plain to see, that in every generation since Pentecost, WE ALL MUST APPEAR [show ones self] before the Judgment Seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear [come now/show ones self] before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his [own physical] body, according to that he hath DONE, whether it be GOOD or BAD.

If a person HAS accepted Jesus as their Savior, as shown in Rev. 3:14-20, then they have done GOOD.
If they HAVE NOT accepted Jesus as their Savior, even to the point of making no decision [being lukewarm], then they have done BAD.


John 3:3-18 IS THAT judgment.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth NOT is condemned ALREADY, BECAUSE he hath NOT believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Earburner]

Using emojis is not against the rules. If you don't want me to laugh at your posts, then stop talking about all that churchianity nonsense and stop saying ridiculous things such as that Luke 17:28-30 has something to do with destroying those in the graves when it instead clearly has the context of the physical destruction of living unbelievers long ago in Sodom and Gomorrah.

When Jesus returns in flaming fire, the earth and all the graves will be burned up in the Lake of fire, which is molten lava covering the surface of the earth. The bodies of the unsaved (what remains of them) will be in those graves. It will all take place within 24 hours (one DAY).
Make no mistake, every person who does not have the Gift of the Holy Spirit, the Vehicle of Eternal Life, they will not be resurrected, and neither indeed can be!!

 

[Davidpt]

Get serious. I do not see the 70th week of Daniel 9 as being in the future, so my view has nothing to do with "churchianity". Good grief. Unreal.





Yet, you are completely unable to back that up with scripture, so those are empty words. Jesus very clearly indicated that the judgment where He would be on His throne/judgment seat will occur when He comes again with His angels. Unless you deny that He will come in the future with His angels, you should understand that people appearing before His judgment seat to give an account of themselves will occur when He returns in the future. But, you are so stuck on this imaginary "churchianity" nonsense, that you can't see how far off base your own view is.

I tend to think the sheep and goats judgment and appearing before Christ's judgment seat are the same judgment. What I don't think is, that either of those is meaning the great white throne judgment. But I do at least agree that it is absurd that appearing before Christ's judgment seat pertains to the here and now rather than after He has bodily returned first.

The key to interpreting the sheep and goats judgment correctly is found within the verses preceding the sheep and goats judgment in ch 25. The end of Matthew 24 is key as well. What are those verses involving? Tell me I'm lying. Tell me they are not involving professed servants of His, profitable servants and unprofitable servants. Tell me that His unprofitable servants consist of unrepentant atheists, unrepentant satanists, unrepentant unbelieving Jews, Cain from Adam's era in the beginning, etc. That's the only way you can make the sheep and goats judgment be a judgment it isn't even involving.

But if you agree professed servants of His who are unprofitable, do not mean unrepentant atheists, unrepentant satanists, unrepentant unbelieving Jews, Cain from Adam's era in the beginning, etc., but mean those in the body of Christ, then why are you being intellectually dishonest concerning the sheep and goats judgment by concealing the truth rather than bringing the truth to light?

In Revelation 20:11-15 where do you see in any of that that everyone there are being divided into 2 groups, so to speak, and that each group answers Jesus in the same manner? Clearly, thus undeniably, per the sheep and goats judgment each group answers Jesus in the same manner collectively.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Can you not see in the text that there is first a judgment involving those in verse 12? Then after that judgment concludes, there are some more dead brought forth, verse 13, and they too were judged every man according to their works? Where do you even see in Matthew 25 anything remotely depicting something like that?

 

[soberxp]

Its very plain to see, that in every generation since Pentecost, WE ALL MUST APPEAR [come] before the Judgment Seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear [come now] before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his [own physical] body, according to that he hath DONE, whether it be GOOD or BAD.

If a person HAS accepted Jesus as their Savior, as shown in Rev. 3:14-20, then they have done GOOD.
If they HAVE NOT accepted Jesus as their Savior, even to the point of making no decision [being lukewarm], then they have done BAD.


John 3:3-18 IS THAT judgment.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth NOT is condemned ALREADY, BECAUSE he hath NOT believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I think only those who truly obey God's word can sit on the judgment seat.

I think many Christians and unbelievers will be judged by God.

 

[rvmb]

Are unbelievers referenced in the passage that Paul quotes in Romans 14:11 in relation to what he said in Romans 14:10-12? Answer this question if you want to be taken seriously, otherwise I have to conclude that you're just an non-serious person playing games.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Where is it written "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."? Here...

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

Are "all that are incensed against him" unbelievers? Clearly. So, this shows that unbelievers will bow before the judgment seat of Christ as well. If you are honest and willing to look at this objectively, then you will address this. Otherwise, if you just want to believe what you want to believe, then you won't.

And, again, Matthew 25:31-46 makes it quite clear that unbelievers will stand before the judgment seat/throne of Jesus as well. So, just keep denying the truth if you want, but it makes you look very bad and very dishonest.

The Judgement Seat of Christ taught by Paul
Are you now denying that you agreed that Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:6-10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 does not include unbelievers

 

[rvmb]

So, you are afraid to address what it says in the passage that Paul referenced in Romans 14:11 then (Isaiah 45:22-24)? Do you deny that unbelievers will bow before Christ to confess that He is Lord? Looks like context means nothing to you. You obviously just believe what you want to believe. Matthew 25:31-46 makes it very clear that unbelievers will be appearing before His judgment seat/throne as well. But, you'd rather just cherry pick scripture then look at scripture as a whole to form your conclusions.

Rom 14:11-12 Christ states that EVERYONE (saved & lost) will bow, confess, give account at >>>a<<<< judgement.
The Judgement Seat of Christ taught by Paul is
Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:6-10 is THE judgement ONLY for those SAVED by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 Gospel
**
Matt - goats/sheep, Great White Throne, etc applies to those NOT judged at Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:6-10, 1 Cor 3:10-15.

 

[rvmb]

I think only those who truly obey God's word can sit on the judgment seat.

I think many Christians and unbelievers will be judged by God.

>>>>>>"can sit on the judgment seat.
List the verses for the judgment seat you are referring to
>>>>>>" those who truly obey
Do you claim you no longer sin ?

 

[soberxp]

>>>>>>"can sit on the judgment seat.
List the verses for the judgment seat you are referring to
>>>>>>" those who truly obey
Do you claim you no longer sin ?

What I seek is God's just judgment, and I hope to be under judgment.I can learn more from god's word when I was wrong.

For this, I don't need any scripture to support my appeal.Except the last judgment of God in the Bible.