Should we as Christians support the State of Israel ?

[Wrangler]

The lesson about the tent peg ....is not carnal.

Then you are drawing the wrong lesson. It's as carnal as it gets.

 

[NayborBear]

Agreed. I see that idolatry with @Aunty Jane where she claims only military action explicitly commanded by God - as in the OT -is permissible despite NT verse saying where there is freedom, there is the spirit of the Lord, etc.

She just scoffs when I point out Scripture does not say to use the internet but she does. Scripture doesn’t say to brush her teeth, but she does. This shows she picks and chooses how rigidly to only do what God explicitly commands. What is especially vexing for a group that calls themselves Jehovah Witnesses, deny modern day saints who witness and testify to God’s Providence and direction in modern times. That’s extreme idolatry, to hold parchment over the living God!

To compare to my own testimony; the Spirit of God commanded me to give a warning to my doctor ahead of his missionary trip to Haiti. I could restrain myself in rationalizing nothing like this is stated in Scripture. Instead, I obeyed the Living God even though doing this is not in Scripture.

Yes! True! So Very True Wrangler!
And she ain't the only one either!
They may quote chapter and verse. And to them? This is the only place where God lives!
Because the many in this verse is lost to 'em!:
John 14:2&3
In my Father's house are many mansions*: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
* mansions = areas/places and levels of relationship/s! Meaning: Not just WITH the Messiah? But eventually (or not), WITH the WHOLE "Government of GOD" that Jesus Christ of Nazareth "bares" on His shoulders. Meaning UPHOLDS!
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1 Peter 2:
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
And HERE is where people like these STAY ie cease or refuse to grow.
And, as stated here in verse 5? QUIT BUILDING!
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
So? The result of NO "efforts/works" constructing this Spiritual House (temple: aka Bethel/House of GOD) built without hands?
Is THIS!:
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto ALSO they were appointed.

And people like you or I and others don't mind offending 'em!

God BLESS Israel!
I myself? Don't find much joy in offending 'em. But, rather frustration and perhaps more than a little righteous indignation (at times) caused by their stiff-neckedness (stubbornness) and more times than not? Glaring stupidity! (willingly ignorant)

 

[Dan Clarkston]

If we are to support the nation of Israel, we need to convey this above truth to them.

Sadly not too many Christians are willing to tell the Truth to Jewish people and I'm talking about the Christians that support the Jews.

Many of these Christians seem to think the Jews are saved just because they are descendants of Abraham and won't tell them in order to not to to hell they must accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and get born again:

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God

 

[Aunty Jane]

Then you are drawing the wrong lesson. It's as carnal as it gets.

It couldn’t be you that is doing exactly what you accuse others of doing….could it?

You are arguing with God’s word, and twisting it to justify your carnal bloodlust. Are you “drawing the wrong lesson?” Jael’s response to Sisera was motivated by God as a demonstration of what happens when a defeated leader tries to hide from his justice. A prophetic pattern that illustrated the fact that no military power could defeat God’s people. Who are God’s people today? Not the political nation of Israel.

The Jews of today still hate Christians, but will use them in their battles just as apostate Israel did in the past….when they relied on foreign nations to go into battle with them, God allowed their enemies to defeat them. It was a slap in the face to a God who was Almighty. Even when they were hopelessly outnumbered, their God gave them the victory…..who are you supporting today? Why does Israel need foreign military and their weapons to defeat their enemies? Clearly God is not with them, otherwise they would need no one.

The OT is full of such examples where God used his servants to mete out justice to those who fought against him and his covenant people and who threatened to take their God-given land……that all changed when the Messiah came and introduced the new covenant, not made with literal Israel, (who by that time were completely powerless under Roman domination)….but with spiritual Israel.

“The Israel of God“ (Gal 6:16) is not natural Israel, but “the church” founded by Jesus Christ, and it came to welcome people from all nations as part of that church. (Acts 10:34-35) Literal Israel as a political nation today are just as much a “part of the world” as any other warmonger….all are going to be eliminated from existence when God brings the rulership of his Kingdom to this earth.
Daniel tells us the results of that final confrontation…..

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever”.

We are living in “the days of those kings”…..and soon we will see the justice of God meted out to the world that relies on its weapons and its military….they will account to God for their bloodshed and so will all who support the wrong kingdom….

You will never be able to say that you were not warned….

 

[Lizbeth]

Then you are drawing the wrong lesson. It's as carnal as it gets.

Yes, it was......for those not under grace. Don't you want to be under grace?

And do you remember why King David was not permitted by God to build Him a temple? There is a lesson there for the church too.

 

[Jack]

It couldn’t be you that is doing exactly what you accuse others of doing….could it?

Nah, that's what JW's are trained to do. All JW's 'know' is what their WatchTower masters tell them.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, it was......for those not under grace. Don't you want to be under grace?

Not sure why you’re trying to make this personal. The Bible is one of the most violent books ever written, violence commanded by God, violence not condemned by God as I cited, violence done by Jesus in his life, violence Jesus implied by taking out our own eye and buying a sword, and the violence he’ll do in his 2nd Coming.

 

[Aunty Jane]

They may quote chapter and verse. And to them? This is the only place where God lives!

Jesus told us where God lives…..”Our Father who art in Heaven”…..seems pretty clear to me.
Why would he want to live here on this earth when he gave rulership of mankind over to the god and ruler that they chose? (Luke 4:5-7)

Because the many in this verse is lost to 'em!:
John 14:2&3
In my Father's house are many mansions*: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
* mansions = areas/places and levels of relationship/s! Meaning: Not just WITH the Messiah? But eventually (or not), WITH the WHOLE "Government of GOD" that Jesus Christ of Nazareth "bares" on His shoulders. Meaning UPHOLDS!
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Who was Jesus talking to? He was talking to those who were chosen to rule with him in that government…the Kingdom that he taught us to pray for….the only government that will rule this earth under Christ as King and with those chosen by God to assist him in its administration.

As for the “mansions”….that description conjures up an abode for the rich, but that is not what Jesus promised to those called “saints” or”holy ones”. Theirs was a role of service as” kings and priests” (Rev 20:6) An “abode” or “dwelling place” is what he promised them.
They will rule with Jesus in heaven for the thousand years it will take to undo all the damage that satan did in Eden. God will restore his first purpose for the human race by removing all traces of sin and giving the redeemed human race a fresh start to inherit all that God offered to the first humans who rejected him.

He was never going to take all the faithful to heaven, because he already had a large family of sons there…He chose all the rulers in his Kingdom because they alone know what it’s like to live in sinful flesh…..they will be compassionate kings and priests for the redeemed human race.

Humans were designed for life on earth and the earth was designed to accommodate them here forever. God’s first purpose for the human race will be achieved. (Isa 55:11; Rev 21-2-4)
Their Paradise was entirely earthly. Living forever under those conditions would have been eternally joyous. Only the elect are chosen for life in heaven….and God is the one who chooses them….it doesn’t automatically come with conversion. So be careful who you assume to be included in “we” and “our”….when life in heaven is mentioned.
The Christian Scriptures were written by the elect, for the elect, and by extension, for those of us who will benefit from their rulership. We all belong to “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”….when we are first convinced of the Bible’s truth.

And people like you or I and others don't mind offending 'em!

What if you are offending God by acting like the unfaithful nation that he has long rejected? (Matt 23:37-39)
That nation will never see a restoration of literal Jerusalem because Jesus said that no geographical location on earth would be the seat of this government (John 4:19-22)…..it would rule from heaven over the whole world.

Christianity is not a Middle Eastern religion…..it is a global family who love one another and do not need to resort to weapons to fight God’s battles at this juncture…..we can “stand still and see the salvation of Jehovah“ in behalf of his people.

When a great army came against Israel, their plea was…..

“O our God, will you not execute judgment on them? For we are powerless before this large crowd that is coming against us; and we do not know what we should do, but our eyes are toward you.”

13  Meanwhile, all those of Judah were standing before Jehovah, along with their little ones, their wives, and their children. . . .
“Pay attention, all Judah and you inhabitants of Jerusalem and King Je·hoshʹa·phat! Here is what Jehovah says to you, ‘Do not be afraid or be terrified because of this large crowd, for the battle is not yours but God’s. 16  Tomorrow go down against them. . . . 17  You will not need to fight this battle. Take your position, stand still, and see the salvation of Jehovah in your behalf. O Judah and Jerusalem, do not be afraid or be terrified. Tomorrow go out against them, and Jehovah will be with you.’” (2 Chron 20:12-13; 15-17; 23-24)

When Israel went out, all they saw was dead bodies….Jehovah had fulfilled his promise.
If Jehovah was for the modern day nation of Israel, they would not need any one’s help to defeat their enemies….if God is for you, who can be against you? (Rom 8:31)

God BLESS Israel!

He will…..just not the “Israel” that you are supporting….no bombs or missiles required.

 

[Jay Ross]

It's not consistent with Mary Had A Little Lamb either but if you look FOR Scriptural support, you might just find it.

I do not need to look for more Scriptural support as I have already found it hidden in plain sight throughout the OT and NT.

Amos 9:14-15 (NKJV)
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

All the Israel wannabees on Earth CAN'T remove them!

Jack this is how people want Amos 9:14-15 to be understood but the context of what God was stating has been lost in the idol of their "Promised Land."

Attached is a PDF of the chapter, Amos 9 for those who want to know the real meaning of the History of Israel and its future which is how I would paraphrase this chapter.

I have pasted Amos 9:13-15 written as I understand these two verses.

Amos 9:13-15: - 13 "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord,​

"When the ploughman shall overtake the reaper,​

And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;​

The mountain[1] shall drip with sweet wine,​

And all the hills[2] shall melt and disappear. ​

14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;​

They shall repair the devasted and desolated places and inhabit them;​

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;​

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. ​

15 I will plant them in My fertile soil/field,​

And no longer shall they be pulled up​

From the fertile soil/field that I have given them,"​

Says the Lord your God.​

I formed this understanding after considering the Hebrew text and other Biblical text from both the OT and NT.

Footnotes

---

[1] The reference to “mountain” here is a metaphor for the religion which is based upon the Daniel 2 passage which tells us that in the day of those kings, i.e. during the kings of today, that the foundation stone, untouched by human hands will come down out of heaven, based upon this understanding that “Jesus is the Son of God” and that this foundation stone/rock will become the largest ‘mountain’ in all of the earth.

[2] The reference to “hills” here is a metaphor for all of the other ‘religions’ or religious cults and practices.

 

[Jack]

He will…..just not the “Israel” that you are supporting….no bombs or missiles required.

IOW, not Israel of the Bible! Typical JW comment, 'not the Bible'!

 

[Jack]

I do not need to look for more Scriptural support as I have already found it hidden in plain sight throughout the OT and NT.



Jack this is how people want Amos 9:14-15 to be understood but the context of what God was stating has been lost in the idol of their "Promised Land."

Attached is a PDF of the chapter, Amos 9 for those who want to know the real meaning of the History of Israel and its future which is how I would paraphrase this chapter.

I have pasted Amos 9:13-15 written as I understand these two verses.

Amos 9:13-15: - 13 "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord,​

"When the ploughman shall overtake the reaper,​

And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;​

The mountain[1] shall drip with sweet wine,​

And all the hills[2] shall melt and disappear. ​

14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;​

They shall repair the devasted and desolated places and inhabit them;​

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;​

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. ​

15 I will plant them in My fertile soil/field,​

And no longer shall they be pulled up​

From the fertile soil/field that I have given them,"​

Says the Lord your God.​

I formed this understanding after considering the Hebrew text and other Biblical text from both the OT and NT.

Footnotes

---

[1] The reference to “mountain” here is a metaphor for the religion which is based upon the Daniel 2 passage which tells us that in the day of those kings, i.e. during the kings of today, that the foundation stone, untouched by human hands will come down out of heaven, based upon this understanding that “Jesus is the Son of God” and that this foundation stone/rock will become the largest ‘mountain’ in all of the earth.

[2] The reference to “hills” here is a metaphor for all of the other ‘religions’ or religious cults and practices.

Ain't NOBODY gonna remove Israel from THEIR LAND of the Bible!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Not sure why you’re trying to make this personal. The Bible is one of the most violent books ever written, violence commanded by God, violence not condemned by God as I cited, violence done by Jesus in his life, violence Jesus implied by taking out our own eye and buying a sword, and the violence he’ll do in his 2nd Coming.

Your apparent love of violence is alarming Wrangler….Jesus was not a man of violence….but he will mete out Jehovah’s justice as his commissioned judge and executioner…..no human is needed to fight God’s battles in the NT era. Christianity is a peaceful religion…those who love violence do not belong in it.

Psalm 11:5…written by a battle hardened warrior, King David plainly stated….
“Jehovah examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one;
He hates anyone who loves violence.”

It is not natural for any human to love violence….it was to have no place in our lives, but came with a knowledge of evil…..no one who loves violence will remain as a citizen of God’s Kingdom.
”Happy are the Peacemakers”…..not the Peacekeepers who use the fear of violence to simply create an absence of war, (fear of annihilation) whilst the hatred still festers beneath the surface, waiting for another opportunity to surface once again. We are sick of the violence and want it to end….but God’s way…not man’s way.

Christians harbor no hatred for anyone…and are therefore “no part” of the world’s conflicts.

 

[Jack]

Your apparent love of violence is alarming Wrangler…

IOW, Aunty doesn't have a clue what the Bible says! Have you heard of the Genesis Flood where God drowned all but 8, "making them an example"? Did the WatchTower chop that out of the Bible too? You should have took heed Aunty, STV,! PAYDAY is dead ahead!

 

[Jay Ross]

Then you are drawing the wrong lesson. It's as carnal as it gets.

How wrong can you get in your confusion with respect to God's prophetic words:-



IS CHRIST YOUR PEG UPON WHICH YOU HOLD FAST TOO OR DO YOU CONSIDER THAT CHRIST IS A CARNAL CONCEPT?

 

[Jay Ross]

Ain't NOBODY gonna remove Israel from THEIR LAND of the Bible!

Well, you certainly do not understand God's purposes for Israel then, do you?

 

[Aunty Jane]

IOW, Aunty doesn't have a clue what the Bible says! Have you heard of the Genesis Flood where God drowned all but 8, "making them an example"?

LOL….You ignorance is an absolute joke….you know nothing about anything biblical except what you want it to say……well, “the proof of the pudding” as they say, “is in the eating”….
I wonder how many will be eating “crow” as their last meal?

You do realize that the flood was brought by God alone….Noah had no part in that….his job was to save lives…his own family worked with him tirelessly for many decades building the means of their salvation and that of the animal kingdom. He did exactly what he was told to do, and he saved himself and his family….why did no one else survive Jack? Because he was a lone voice in a wicked world…..the humans had adopted the wickedness around them as their normal way of life…..Noah was the exception. He didn’t want to be part of that world.…a world that God had no choice but to eliminate them from existence and start fresh.

Are you part of the world Jack? Are you supporting earthly kingdoms or are you a neutral supporter of God’s Kingdom? Do you even know what God’s Kingdom is? Please tell us….

Do you relish the thought of God torturing souls in “hellfire”…for all eternity? That is not who God is…he has no reason or desire to torture anyone, in fact when his ancient people fell to sacrificing their children in a fire to a false god, he was repulsed at the mere thought of it. (Jer 7:31) Why then would he do that to his own children?

I ask these questions, not expecting a scriptural answer because you know nothing about Scripture…you just parrot off what others say that appeals to you…..you demonstrate your ignorance with every post….childish to an alarming degree for an adult….let alone a Christian.

Jesus will soon tell us all if we have it right, or whether we are just kidding ourselves….that condition seem to be epidemic in today’s completely divided world…..and it remains undiagnosed until death is immanent. (Matt 7:21-23) There are no second chances here….Jesus’ rejection is permanent. Imagine if it’s you on the wrong side of the issue of God’s Universal Sovereighty?

Did the WatchTower chop that out of the Bible too? You should have took heed Aunty, STV,! PAYDAY is dead ahead!

“Payday” is coming Jack….but it has no resemblance to the picture you have in your mind…..watch out for what is “dead ahead”….yourself.…that is the Bible’s warning. (1 Cor 10:12)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Well, we really shouldn't be surprised at this world being a wicked and evil place (and will remain so til the end of time when Jesus returns and it all burns up)......but the Lord is sovereignly ruling over it all. We're not wrestling with flesh and blood but with powers and principalities in high places. Therefore our weapons are not carnal. The church of Jesus Christ doesn't belong to this world, our citizenship is in heaven and this world is not our business, it is God's business. We're supposed to consider ourselves as foreigners passing through this world....ambassadors of another kingdom - a heavenly kingdom. Our business is just the gospel, though of course we may pray concerning circumstances in the world. We need to be distanced from this world and keep our eyes looking up, otherwise we will be distracted from the Lord and the gospel through being snared and entangled with earthly things. Cares of this world chokes the FRUIT....that is a real problem and temptation. We're seeing it with the church in spades these days. And big name ministries use it all to keep the people stirred up in the flesh and interested so their donations and book purchases will keep coming in.

Here is another danger......if we are too invested in this world we may find ourselves fighting against God. His will. When Israel was being taken over and captive by Babylon as God's judgment......the Lord told His people not to fight, but to submit to their new rulers. Many of those who fought died and those who submitted themselves to the will of God and His judgment lived. Selah.

Not so evil or wicked in fact ! fool ! or did you grow up under Communist Russia ?
So thank God that one had the good of what our forefathers sowed. not to mention that such has been eroded over the last 30 years by Carnal and Carnal religious jerks who lack the Grace of Christ Jesus, for a pansy type of adopted Carnal one, that such think is Jesus the flower power type of such types of nonsense.

Yes Christ Jesus did come ! Carnal seek for him ! because they are not Saved.
Only the fools can not fathom such truly that he gave us all we need, but that they seek another ? Why because they are clearly Lost !

The Church is The body of Christ Jesus and he is the head their of ! period ! such are as it is in Heaven ? Not in Heaven ?
This world is our buisness in fact or such a one is not worthy ! When one is truly Saved, Behold I send you out amoung the Wolves ? Remember Paul ? why you think he do ! ey !

Carnal Religious is what you are peddling on boasting about such of this world.

When the Jews were not worthy of God ! That is when they were not worthy of Israel in fact !

Only the Saved are worthy of Israel in fact !

Jesus went to get the OT Saints, because they were worthy of being an Israel !

 

[Jay Ross]

Ain't NOBODY gonna remove Israel from THEIR LAND of the Bible!

It is not about where the land is that Israel is living on, rather it is about where Israel is drawing their nourishment from and that fertile field of God's can be wherever they are presently living.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It is not about where the land is that Israel is living on, rather it is about where Israel is drawing their nourishment from and that fertile field of God's can be wherever they are presently living.

And yet it IS about the Land which belongs to God Who said nobody is going to remove the descendants of Abraham from it.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

fool !

Jesus said when you call someone a fool you are in danger of hell fire.

Did you get fitted for that fire suit yet? Not that it's going to do you any good.

When the Jews were not worthy of God ! That is when they were not worthy of Israel in fact !

And in these so called modern enlightened time most claiming to be Christians are following heresy and as such are not worthy of the Lord or to be in the Body of Christ.