Which act was greater? - Adam or Christ?
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Which act was greater? - Adam or Christ?
Did the results of the Fall of humankind supersede the results of the Atonement?
Was the act of the one man (Christ) insufficient to cover the act of the other man? (Adam)
Which act was greater? - Adam or Christ?
Clyde Pilkington - Christ's Successful Work
4,160 views Mar 28, 2014Christ - a success or a failure? What did he come to do and did he actually accomplish it?
Well, he's the Son of God, isn't he!? Don't refuse to accept the truth that is the grace of God -
if righteousness does not come from Christ's work then Christ died for nothing. www.studyshelf.com
soberxp
Well-Known Member
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Because there is only the first Adam.He has the love as a father to love all the people in the world.That's the only motive for him to be willing go on the cross.
Not only for the will of God.
There is an old saying in China.eldest brother as the father.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Adam is the reason why it was necessary for the Christ to become a human and repay the debt that Adam owed to God and to all his offspring, who inherited sin and death through no fault of their own.
God’s Law demanded equivalency....”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”.....Adam lost perfect sinless human life for himself and all who descended from him....only an equal life given could cancel the debt. Jesus came from heaven in a sinless body that God made for him, just as he did for the first Adam....that made Jesus “the last Adam”......our redeemer.
“God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son...” (John 3:16)....as part of the redemption process in Israel, if a father incurred a debt he could not pay, he could offer the service of a son or daughter to pay off the debt. A son or daughter would be willing to do that out of love for their father. Otherwise the father may be carried off to prison.
In order to die, Jesus had to be 100% human......because God is immortal and cannot die, he sent his son to pay the debt....and the son willingly did so for the love of his father, and also out of love for humanity.
It was never God’s will for humans to die.....they had the opportunity to live forever in paradise on earth, but it was contingent on their obedience. (Gen 3:22-24) Jesus came to buy back what Adam lost for us.
Or in English the saying is “like father, like son”.....God’s “firstborn” Son has spent more time with his Father than any other being in existence. He reflects his Father’s character perfectly.
That is not how the Bible applies it.....the second Adam paid for what the first Adam did....like for like.
The first Adam was responsible for the death of every human who descended from him....Jesus came to give them life again, most of whom are sleeping in death, awaiting the promised resurrection. (Eccl 9:5, 10; John 5:28-29)
A resurrection is not a continuation of life after death, but a restoration of it once God has cleansed the earth of all who disobey him. Every vestige of the devil’s world will “pass away”. (Rev 21:2-4)
When Jesus comes “to separate the sheep from the goats”....only the sheep will remain, whilst the stubborn goats, who cannot be told, continue to put their own will before that of the Father....Jesus refused to do that and was faithful to the death. We have to have that same kind of faith.....patiently waiting for God to step in once every last precious sheep is in the pen.
This why Jesus said we must “endure to the end”...(Matt 24:13)
soberxp
Well-Known Member
A shepherd manages both sheep and goats, but I don’t think there is much difference in the shepherd’s eyes.
Moreover, God can indeed resurrect a dead person—just as in the Old Testament, God showed a certain prophet ancient soldiers who had been raised from the dead.
To cite a Buddhist perspective, reincarnation means that Adam could potentially live again, and be without sin, because obeying God’s word is to be without sin.
If there is someone in this world who can deeply understand and grasp the meaning of this, then it is only him.the first Adam.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Why do you think that he needs to separate them…. and give everlasting life only to the sheep?
Why do the goats go to the same place as God has assigned to the devil and his demons? (Matt 25:31-34; 41, 46)
Do you have a reference for that?
I like to use the example of Lazarus…..read John 11:11-14 and ask where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him up? Where did he call him from? In what condition was he when he exited his tomb?
Christianity is not the foundation of Buddhism….there is no reincarnation in the Bible…only resurrection.
One is raised from the dead as the person they were before…..not as someone or something that they were not before.
The first Adam plunged the whole human race into sin and death…..he understood what it meant to break Gods law….the consequences were clearly stated.
He has no sin nature to lead him astray….his relationship with his wife did that. She had, by her disobedience, condemned herself to death, but Adam could have saved the whole human race if he had just stuck to his God, rather than joining his wife in disobedience.
It is through the man that sin entered the world, not the woman. (Rom 5:12) It was his choice that condemned us to death…..if he had not joined his wife in disobedience, we would never have known what evil was…
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Cuz sheep obey the will of shepherd.
Good shepherd uses iron rod Managing disobey goats,until......
In Ezekiel 37:1–10, the prophet sees a valley full of dry bones. God tells him to prophesy to the bones. As he speaks, the bones come together, grow tendons, flesh, and skin. Then God’s breath enters them, and they come to life, standing up as a vast army.
One is disobey word of God,one is obey word of God,but the same one.
So you think they lived for hundreds of years, and they lived in vain?
In the era of Adam and Eve, They can still communicate with God. Learning from God.
It's just that this process is not recorded in the Bible.
In other words, Jesus Christ is the foundation of this world.If God hadn't thought clearly from the beginning,When God created Adam, did he have no idea?
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Yes.....the sheep listen and obey...they follow not only the shepherd but also each other.....the goats do whatever they want. They are very independant.
In Bible times both sheep and goats were herded by Jewish shepherds. Both were “clean” animals, for food and for sacrifice, but they had very different in personality traits.
I have goats and I know that they are self serving and greedy. They are stubborn and disobedient. We see both personalities in the (Western) “Christian” world....I am not sure how it is in China for Christians, who would no doubt be in a minority.
Thank you, I am familiar with this prophesy, but it was a vision that God gave to Ezekiel to show that even though the bones were very dry, (indicating that these ones were long dead) God could clothe these dry bones with muscle, sinew and flesh, and cause the breath of life to animate them again.
Since this is a spiritual resurrection, not a literal one (no literal resurrection is ever described this way in the Bible) this is a description of the spiritually dead state of Israel whilst captive and in exile in Babylon. God foretold a revival of his people after their release under Cyrus the Persian, who conquered Babylon (a world power that was notorious for never releasing its captives.)
Like all restoration prophesies, this one had a larger fulfilment in this time of the end.
The Revelation mentions “Babylon the great”.....or “the greater Babylon”.....an entity that, as these last days approached, would have been holding the majority of God’s worshippers captive to their false doctrines and religious practices for centuries.
God would revive his spiritually dead people and give them a new spirit. He would lead a remnant out of that captivity and back to Scriptural truth. It was not going to be easy, as those who remained captives did not want that Scriptural truth to disrupt their rituals. They are happy to stay in “Babylon the great” even though God’s command to his people was to ”get out of her” (Rev 18:4-5) It is a choice to stay or to leave....the sheep obey....the goats do not.
A restoration of life is to give a person back what satan’s rebellion took away from them.
We all lost everlasting life in paradise on earth.....death has overtaken every human who has ever lived...death is the wages of sin....and sin is something we cannot eliminate on our own. Jesus came to deliver us from that death....giving each one the promise of a resurrection. (John 5:28-29)
By their disobedience, they cut themselves off from their Creator, necessitating the appointment of a mediator, who is identified as Jesus Christ. A mediator is one who facilitates communication between two estranged parties....he cannot be one of the parties. He is the one who mediates between God and mankind, (1 Tim 2:5-6) proving that Jesus is not God.
So Adam and his wife had no direct contact with God, but continued to learn about life in a world outside of paradise, eking out an existence on cursed ground, but managing to have two sons, only one of whom proved to be righteous. When Cain killed his brother, there were no righteous people left in the world until Seth was born....and the world of sinful mankind descended from him, and Adam’s other “sons and daughters”.
Adam lived to 930 years of age.....as others too lived for centuries, closer to the perfection of Adam. But we see the longevity decline after the flood....to a mere 70 or 80 years.
Yes, God knew exactly what he was doing when the rebellion took place....he did not plan it,nor did he prevent their use and abuse of the free will that he gave to those rebels....but decided to use it as a teaching exercise...to show them (and us) where their disobedience would lead them.....what have we learned?
The Bible is all we have to guide and direct our steps...if we stick closely to the teachings of Jesus Christ and encourage others to do the same, we will not be promoting the false doctrines of “Babylon the great” nor will we be found as promoters of any earthly Kingdoms.....we will be declaring God’s Kingdom as the only hope for mankind. (Matt 24:14)
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
The comparison is in Scripture.....
Jesus is called “the last Adam” (1 Cor 15:45) because he was sent to atone for what the first Adam lost for humankind.
Both were created by God, sinless and physically perfect....to balance the scales of God’s justice.
One lost life for us....and the other gained it back.
Adam was responsible for the whole human race being hijacked by the devil.....Jesus paid the ransom to free us.
The comparisons are there....
soberxp
Well-Known Member
The first and last.
1. **Revelation 1:17-18**
*“When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.’”*
2. **Revelation 2:8**
*“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.’”*
3. **Revelation 22:13**
*“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”*
And we shouldn't putThe problem is passed on to Adam and Eve.And it seems that I can't shirk this problem to the old serpent.
genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
matthew
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Stumpmaster
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He isn't. Biblical Truth is rare among certain Roman Catholic communities.
Scripture that teaches the sinlessness of Christ,
Core Scriptures on the Sinlessness of Christ
1. Hebrews 7:26 — The Perfect High Priest
Point: Jesus is uniquely qualified to be High Priest because He is morally flawless.
Allowable quote: “For such a High Priest was fitting for us—holy, harmless, undefiled…”
2. Isaiah 53:9 — The Sinless Suffering Servant
Point: Even in prophetic anticipation, the Messiah is described as completely without wrongdoing.
Allowable quote: “…because He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.”
3. John 8:46 — Jesus’ Public Challenge
Point: Jesus openly invites His enemies to prove He has sinned — and none can.
Allowable quote: “Which of you convicts Me of sin?”
4. 2 Corinthians 5:21 — Christ Knew No Sin
Point: Paul grounds the atonement in Christ’s absolute sinlessness.
Allowable quote: “For He made Him who knew no sin…”
5. 1 Peter 2:22 — Echo of Isaiah
Point: Peter affirms Jesus’ sinlessness in both action and speech.
Allowable quote: “Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth.”
6. 1 John 3:5 — In Him There Is No Sin
Point: Christ’s mission to remove sin depends on His own sinlessness.
Allowable quote: “…in Him there is no sin.”
Additional Passages:
Hebrews 4:15
Christ was tempted “in all points” yet without sin.1 Peter 1:19
Christ is the sacrificial Lamb “without blemish and without spot.”John 1:29
The Lamb of God who takes away sin must Himself be sinless.Luke 1:35
The angel calls Him “that Holy One” from conception.Matthew 3:17
The Father declares His complete approval: “in whom I am well pleased.”
soberxp
Well-Known Member
soberxp said:
The first and last.
1. **Revelation 1:17-18**
*“When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.’”*
2. **Revelation 2:8**
*“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.’”*
3. **Revelation 22:13**
*“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”*
Jesus was the first-born from the dead.
He was from the beginning as the Word (logos) of God.
Present at creation. Part of the godhead.
The first and last.
1. **Revelation 1:17-18**
*“When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.’”*
2. **Revelation 2:8**
*“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.’”*
3. **Revelation 22:13**
*“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”*
I don't think that means what you are claiming it means.
Jesus was the first-born from the dead.
He was from the beginning as the Word (logos) of God.
Present at creation. Part of the godhead.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
It means the beginning and the end.
He was there at creation, He will be there at the final judgement.
The Age of reconciliation and restoration. Full circle, the beginning and the end.
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