Should we as Christians support the State of Israel ?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
8,936
5,047
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Oh, no I'm not. I know Israel is a pagan nation. Christians are Christians and pagans are pagans.
This is where I believe your argument falls to pieces....
Christians are pagans if they teach pagan doctrines as Bible truth....

Ancient Israel always had a problem keeping their worship uncontaminated by pagan worship....right up until Christ came as Messiah, they were still trying to pass off pagan beliefs as Bible truth....what did Jesus tell them.....

“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9  It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9)

Since he also said that they were “from their father the devil“ and ‘wanted to do the desires of their father’, can we not see the same tactic used to contaminate Christianity?...teaching “the commands of men as doctrines.”

Unless you see why the devil has never had to resort to new tactics (because the old ones still work so well for him) he would corrupt Christianity in exactly the same manner as he corrupted Judaism.

The doctrines formulated by the early church after the death of the apostles, accepted and taught what Christ never did. They gradually corrupted the church from within, as the devil introduced a power system, knowing full well that power corrupts men like nothing else.

The whole foundation of Christendom’s doctrines are all borrowed from pagan beliefs, grafted over ambiguous Scripture to a people from whom the Bible was kept away. It was an offence punishable by death to own or to read the Bible for yourself. That is how they got away with it for so long....no one could check the Scriptures for themselves to see if what they were being taught was actually from God’s Word. (Acts 17:10-11)

The warnings are all there....Jesus’ parable of “the wheat and the weeds” (Matt 13:24-30; 36-42)....his warnings about the origins of Jewish beliefs that contradicted Scripture (Matt 15:7-9).....Paul’s warning about not adopting “unclean” pagan beliefs and practices. (2 Cor 6:14-18) Everything that Christendom believes is not Bible based, but pagan influenced.....pagan beliefs and practices covered over by a thin “Christian” veneer.....can we see it?

Jesus also warned that the majority would stay with the error, just like the Jews did in his day....(Matt 7:13-14) “Few” would be found on the difficult road to life....so that when the judgment comes, they will be shocked at their rejection. (Matt 7:21-23) Look for the hated and persecuted minority if you want Bible truth...(John 15:18-21)

It’s not too late to remove yourself from a doomed church system that is divided against itself.

Only when you do honest research can you see it very clearly.....and when you do, and you understand that Christendom is not what Jesus founded, but an imitation “weed” planted by the devil to take the majority away from the truth of God’s word....we have to take action to remove ourselves from “Babylon the great”, pictured in Revelation as a harlot.....riding a beast that she thinks will never turn on her....but she is sadly mistaken. (Rev 18:1-8)

When “Babylon the great” is destroyed, people will see that what they put their faith in was misguided....

Take action before it is too late. Those supporting Babylon the great will go down with her.
 
Last edited:

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
20,732
8,987
113
57
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
The Hebrew word translated in the above verse comes for the Hebrew Root word H:0127 which has the meaning of reddish soil.

Sadly, the translators have wrongly translated the Hebrew word "’aḏ·mā·ṯām" by using the English word, "land."

A difference without a distinction.

This conversing between us is finished.
Not sure what you are arguing about beyond shrouding anti-semitism in linguistic analysis AS IF Jack is wrong for quoting Scripture.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
15,797
5,941
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jack get yourself a good interlinear. The Hebrew word translated in the above verse comes for the Hebrew Root word H:0127 which has the meaning of reddish soil. Sadly, the translators have wrongly translated the Hebrew word "’aḏ·mā·ṯām" by using the English word, "land."

View attachment 82781

This has led to the wrong understanding that God initially intends that the nation of Israel will be returned to the Land of Canaan whereas God's first encounter with Jacob indicates that Jacob's descendants will be scattered into the four corners of the earth which when found in Amos 9:15 presents a very different picture when we see that God's intent was to plant them in His fertile field as Jesus foretold in the parable of the Sower.

People are smart enough to understand God's words and will search out the right understanding independently to what we may believe.

Goodbye Jack. This conversing between us is finished.
So, all of our Bibles are wrong and you are right? Wow!
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
9,363
3,484
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Not sure what you are arguing about beyond shrouding anti-semitism in linguistic analysis AS IF Jack is wrong for quoting Scripture.

Yes jack is quoting a translation of the Hebrew text which has glaring errors in it without understanding what he is actually reading. That is his bad, not mine.

A difference without a distinction.

There is a very big difference to God's fertile soil and land. Land can be sand, rock and very poor soil. We need to be planted into God's prepared fertile soil, not sand or rock or very poor soil.
 
Last edited:

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
6,011
7,407
113
68
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Gender
Female
Yeah, so tell us about the solution to the ecumenical movement.

You have talked about the problem, tell us about the solution now.
It's through the "foolishness of preaching"..........it's the POWER of God unto salvation, rather than being a method or formula to follow.....it is not with wise words of man. If we receive the truth and word of God when it is preached or when we read it in scripture then we have received the "solution".....the washing of the water of the word and the light unto our path.

Key passages and truths for me on this subject are these......where God's word through James says friendship with the world is enmity with God...those who are friends with the world are adulterers and adulteresses, spiritually speaking. And where Paul taught to be not unequally yoked with unbelievers but come out from among them and be separate (holy, set apart) that God might receive us.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
20,732
8,987
113
57
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
So, all of our Bibles are wrong and you are right? Wow!
It's IDOLATRY and it is something to behold.

When Scripture says Israel it doesn't mean Israel. When Scripture says land, it means fertile soil and you better know that makes all the difference in the world. Huh?

There is a very big difference to God's fertile soil and land. Land can be sand, rock and very poor soil. We need to be planted into God's prepared fertile soil, not sand or rock or very poor soil.
Not too much humility there @Jay Ross to claim MANY professional translators got it wrong but you got it right. Not sure what the doctrinal investment is for you to parse "soil" with "land."

Perhaps the royal "we" of your answer is telling. Yet another form of antisemitism, denying it is not us Gentiles but the Jews who are planted in God's prepared land - or fertile soil, if you please. I believe this is Jack's point. It's not about parsing "soil" from fertile "land;" it's parsing Jews from Gentiles.

Putting aside all your appeals to gnosticism, interlinear distinctions without a difference, what is your answer to the thread question; should we support Israel? It's a simple yes or no question and does not require mastery of ancient foreign languages.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jack

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
6,011
7,407
113
68
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Gender
Female
I'll follow God's lead. Trump is Trump ...Nebby was Nebby. God is allowing all of this because of the will of the people. When it comes to evil, I won't endorse it. I obey the laws of the land as best I can, unless and until it requires a choice between man and God. That's the example I see played out.
It's good to read and take note of all that was written concerning when God sent Nebuchadnezzar/Babylon to take over, and those faithful Israelites who like it or not found themselves living and working in "Babylon", how they lived and responded to the king, etc.
 

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
6,011
7,407
113
68
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Gender
Female
Israel is Home to STAY!

Amos 9:14-15
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.
Jesus said what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul? What matters is their spiritual condition, not physical land and geography. Physical land only determines where they will live for this short little life, but their spiritual condition determines where they will spend eternity.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
9,363
3,484
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
It's IDOLATRY and it is something to behold.

When Scripture says Israel it doesn't mean Israel. When Scripture says land, it means fertile soil and you better know that makes all the difference in the world. Huh?

Wrangler, you are making a mockery of God's original texts. The number of times that H:0127 has been mistranslated as "land" or "earth" in our respective preferred translations is not that many, but the context of this misdirected translation has many consequences.

Not too much humility there @Jay Ross to claim MANY professional translators got it wrong but you got it right. Not sure what the doctrinal investment is for you to parse "soil" with "land."

Perhaps the royal "we" of your answer is telling. Yet another form of antisemitism, denying it is not us Gentiles but the Jews who are planted in God's prepared land - or fertile soil, if you please. I believe this is Jack's point. It's not about parsing "soil" from fertile "land;" it's parsing Jews from Gentiles.

Well, Genesis 12:3 might be enlightening for you.

1775913293027.png

In this instance the same Hebrew word H:0127 has been translated as "earth" in this interlinear. This is how I would paraphrase Gen 12:3:-
1775913931576.png
The way the NKJV translate this verse leans towards a Universal Salvation in that it suggests that all of the families of the earth will be blessed, whereas the paraphrasing I have suggested is that only people who have inhabit God's fertile soil by choosing to send their roots down into God's fertile soil/field to draw from His nourishment will be blessed. There is a very big difference. Both the Israelite and the Gentile must be planted in God's fertile soil.

It is Jacks problem if he has not understood my position.

Putting aside all your appeals to gnosticism, interlinear distinctions without a difference, what is your answer to the thread question; should we support Israel? It's a simple yes or no question and does not require mastery of ancient foreign languages.

I answered this question previously by stated, "Yes, we Christian should support the state of Israel, but the question is how do we give that support and remain loyal to God's purposes for Israel.

The question that I asked myself is "What is the state of Israel at this very moment?"

Shalom
 

Attachments

  • 1775913800320.png
    1775913800320.png
    27.6 KB · Views: 0

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
20,732
8,987
113
57
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
What matters is their spiritual condition, not physical land and geography.
Again, over-spiritualized. Just because one thing is a priority does not mean other things are not important at all! If physical land and geography didn’t matter, people wouldn’t fight over it AND God would not have commanded Joshua to take land and geography in Canaan.

Consider AND rather than OR is what Jesus meant, which is why he said put your Heavenly Father first AND he’ll give you all these material things also. Matthew 6:31-33.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
20,732
8,987
113
57
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I answered this question previously by stated, "Yes, we Christian should support the state of Israel, but the question is how do we give that support and remain loyal to God's purposes for Israel.
Agh huh. Support in name only. Support in theory, not practice.

Oh, the pains you go through AS IF supporting Israel threatens our loyalty to God. Unbelievable!
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
9,363
3,484
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Agh huh. Support in name only. Support in theory, not practice.

Oh, the pains you go through AS IF supporting Israel threatens our loyalty to God. Unbelievable!

Some people are never satisfied with an honest answer.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
15,797
5,941
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus said what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul? What matters is their spiritual condition, not physical land and geography. Physical land only determines where they will live for this short little life, but their spiritual condition determines where they will spend eternity.
Do you have a Bible? It's about ISRAEL!
 

NayborBear

Active Member
Jan 21, 2020
678
226
43
73
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Perhaps your post is applicable. Yes, we should be Blessing the Nation of Israel, however at this point in time some in the Nation of Israel are trying to force God's hand into redeeming them, by reclaiming a parcel of land that was torn from them for their continual idolatrous worship around 70 AD..
Oh! I agree with ya on the some in the nation of Israel trying to force God's hand!
Just as their are also some in various parts of the world, including the U.S. of A. trying to bring about "events" BEFORE the Appointed time/s!
Yet? This we know: Right?!
That it's yet, and always been
God's will ALL should come to repentance!
But? We also know that this is ain't gonna happen during this current "slice of eternity*!"
Until? At the LAST Trump? WHEN EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH IS INDEED LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS!


But THAT? Brings us into yet ANOTHER "slice of eternity*!" RIGHT?!

*Heaven and/or earth ages/Heaven AND Earth ages.
 

NayborBear

Active Member
Jan 21, 2020
678
226
43
73
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
This is the passage which you have quoted from in Luke 1: -
View attachment 82733

Yes we should Bless the Nation of Israel but should be condoning their attempt to force God's Hand before He has said that He will redeem the Nation of Israel by gathering them to Himself in our near future.
I am in the "hopes" of you realizing that this prophecy was concerning the coming Messiah: 'Ha-ma'-'Shiech Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Right?!
Because? It is only THIS way that "Yah'-uh-'Vay" will RE-Graft Israel back into the original olive tree!
 

NayborBear

Active Member
Jan 21, 2020
678
226
43
73
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
It's God's land and He's restoring Israel as we speak

The promise land is much larger than the land occupied by modern day Israel.

Just wait until the Lord causes modern day Israel to take back more land!

You think the liberals are upset at Israel now? You ain't seen nuthin yet, and it's just around the corner.
:clp:Hnds
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
15,797
5,941
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Some people are never satisfied with an honest answer.
And some profess to be Christian and reject the Bible.

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; ...
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

Amen Jesus! All the wannabees in the world CAN'T remove Israel from the Land of the Bible!
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
20,732
8,987
113
57
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
And some profess to be Christian and reject the Bible.

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; ...
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

Amen Jesus! All the wannabees in the world CAN'T remove Israel from the Land of the Bible!
Yabut fertile soil ….