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Ok, that's commonly known as mid-trib rapture. The bible presents a rapture after the trib (or whatever other name) is over, common;y known as post-trib.
Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders
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Ok, that's commonly known as mid-trib rapture. The bible presents a rapture after the trib (or whatever other name) is over, common;y known as post-trib.
It's not the same as pretrib and I know what post trib is but, imo, neither of those are correct for a variety of reasons. The main one is that the 70th week doesn't end w/ Armageddon, there will still be 45-75 days left and I'm not talking about the 1290 or 1335 day prophecies.
In the 'tribulation' salvation is lost and also not attainable if you take the 'mark', plus Matt 25v35-41 teaches loss also.
There are no verses applicable for today that teach a saved believer can lose their salvation.
Point ? The 'tribulation' happens after 1 Cor15v51-51, 1 Thess 4v14-17,
Can a believer "lose" their free gift of salvation? No, however they can give it back! Christ tells us in Matt. 7:21-23 before he says "I never knew you", "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Only believers could have done these things. This is also what Paul is speaking of in 2 Thess. when he speaks of the 'falling away", the apostacy, "before" the rapture. For one to become apostate, their faith had to be real and genuine in the first place. Imo, it will happen when the church is going through the GT and yes that means many will receive the mark because as Rev. 12:11 implies there will be some who do love their lives and aren't willing to die for Christ. This is also called "separating the wheat from the chaff" and seeing what seeds fell on 'stoney places". The doctrine of OSAS is a false one.
give it back - Is that also a teaching from Paul, if so what verses support it ?
Can you list the errors in this OSAS teaching ?
Assurance of Salvation - doctrine.org
Salvation is a work of God.1 More than that, salvation is solely a work of God. Assurance of salvation is possible only if salvation is a work of God alone. If salvation depended upon man’s ability, assurance of salvation would require answering…
Calvinism gets it wrong and way over exaggerates the miniscule part we are involved. Hearing, listening, believing, accepting all that is just one single little thought. It sure isn't anything to boast about.give it back - Is that also a teaching from Paul, if so what verses support it ?
Can you list the errors in this OSAS teaching ?
Assurance of Salvation - doctrine.org
Salvation is a work of God.1 More than that, salvation is solely a work of God. Assurance of salvation is possible only if salvation is a work of God alone. If salvation depended upon man’s ability, assurance of salvation would require answering…doctrine.org
is GIVE IT BACK a teaching of Paul ?
What do you believe are the errors of OSAS as taught here
Assurance of Salvation - doctrine.org
Salvation is a work of God.1 More than that, salvation is solely a work of God. Assurance of salvation is possible only if salvation is a work of God alone. If salvation depended upon man’s ability, assurance of salvation would require answering…
It's not about works, it's about faith. Our little part, as in the words of a song, "I'll say yes, Lord yes, to your will and to your way." That is our part. Salvation is a gift but God doesn't force it on anyone and like any gift, it can be returned or left unopened. A person could say something like, "I tried your way God but it didn't work for me, I'm going down a different path, maybe Buddhism has what I seek".is GIVE IT BACK a teaching of Paul ?
What do you believe are the errors of OSAS as taught here
Assurance of Salvation - doctrine.org
Salvation is a work of God.1 More than that, salvation is solely a work of God. Assurance of salvation is possible only if salvation is a work of God alone. If salvation depended upon man’s ability, assurance of salvation would require answering…
Since it's FAITH that saves then it makes logical sense that FAITH must be continuing.
If salvation is lost by no longer believing then you have a case against OSAS.
Are there any verses that you are aware of where Paul teaches salvation can be lost.
ps I'm aware of Gal 5v4 "fall from grace" where Paul was addressing the "circumcised"
Matt. 24:10-13, Heb. 3:12, 6:4-6, Rev. 12:11 implies some won't be willing to lay down there lives and the warning of the great apostasy of 2 Thess. 2:2.
Thanx again Trek.
Matt, Heb , Rev are not from Paul
I would like to know verses from Paul that teach salvation can be lost, can you quote any ?
Justin Martyr: Dialogue with Trypho:
Trypho : "Do you really admit that this place Jerusalem shall be rebuilt? And do you expect your people to be gathered together, and made joyful with Christ and the Patriarchs...?"
Justin: "I and many others are of that opinion, and believe that this will take place, as you are assuredly aware; but on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith think otherwise. Moreover I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical and foolish. . . . I choose to follow not men or men’s teachings, but God and the doctrines delivered by Him. For if you have fallen with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit the truth of the resurrection . . . who say that there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls when they die are taken to heaven, do not imagine that they are Christians . . . But I and others who are right-minded Christians on all points are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel, Isaiah and others declare. . . . We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The Day of the Lord,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the Apostles of Christ, who prophesied by a revelation that was made to him that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general and the eternal resurrection of all men would take place."
Paul explaines the rapture... and when it occures
2Ti 2:18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
Trypho : "Do you really admit that this place Jerusalem shall be rebuilt? And do you expect your people to be gathered together, and made joyful with Christ and the Patriarchs...?"
Justin: "I and many others are of that opinion, and believe that this will take place, as you are assuredly aware; but on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith think otherwise. Moreover I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical and foolish. . . . I choose to follow not men or men’s teachings, but God and the doctrines delivered by Him. For if you have fallen with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit the truth of the resurrection . . . who say that there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls when they die are taken to heaven, do not imagine that they are Christians . . . But I and others who are right-minded Christians on all points are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel, Isaiah and others declare. . . . We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The Day of the Lord,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the Apostles of Christ, who prophesied by a revelation that was made to him that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general and the eternal resurrection of all men would take place."
Paul explaines the rapture... and when it occures
2Ti 2:18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
2 Thess 2.2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
What in that verse do you believe suggests that Paul is teaching lose salvation ?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Heb 6give it back - Is that also a teaching from Paul, if so what verses support it ?
Can you list the errors in this OSAS teaching ?
Assurance of Salvation - doctrine.org
Salvation is a work of God.1 More than that, salvation is solely a work of God. Assurance of salvation is possible only if salvation is a work of God alone. If salvation depended upon man’s ability, assurance of salvation would require answering…
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I know.
You have to invoke the "hyper Pauline's Holy Spirit gamble."
(If Hebrews was not written by Paul, then the Holy Spirit has only a 50% chance of getting it correct, since Paul was sent to correct the rest of bible that the Holy Spirit got wrong.)
How convenient that a hyper Pauline's skinny bible can void every verse that offends them.
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Many who profess and do not possess are falling away. Their falseness is being brought to the surface in our day. But, they were never saved in the first place. They are phonies. They are playing at religion.
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