The Law of Moses : Can't Define a CHRISTian. #1

[seer]

Love God with all your heart mind and soul.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Yes and according to the good Samaritan event spoken of in Luke, who is your neighbor ?
There's a point, bear with me

 

[Ziggy]

The one that gave of himself for another.

Luk 10:30
And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
Luk 10:31
And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:32
And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:33
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luk 10:34
And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luk 10:35
And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Luk 10:36
Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luk 10:37
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

What about the priest and the levite? the ones that didn't show mercy?

There is this argument that America should treat people who broke into our house, stole our money, eat our food, and disrespect our laws, rape our women, and throw people in front of moving trains, and attack them with machetes, that we should be responsible for treating these people as neighbors.

Would you consider them "good" neighbors?
Should we have mercy on the thieves or the ones being abused by them?

Hugs

 

[RepentingChristian]

Is repentance necessary for salvation or only belief in Jesus?

 

[seer]

Is repentance necessary for salvation or only belief in Jesus?

Faith alone or faith plus, welcome to the debate, myself I'm yet to be convinced it's anything but faith alone.

 

[Ziggy]

To repent means to turn from your old ways and turn to the Lord.
If you continue to walk in sin knowing that Jesus died to remove your sins, then your belief itself is in question.
Because if you believe Jesus died for your sins, you won't walk in them anymore.

Paul wrote a letter to the Corinthians concerning a man that was committing fornication in the church.
1 Corinthians chapter 5.

1Co 5:1
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

In 2 Corinthians chapter 7, Paul goes on to say.. After they put the man out of the church...
2Co 7:8
For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
2Co 7:9
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

What was that that they needed to repent of?

1. to be puffed up, to bear one's self loftily, be proud

1Co 5:6
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

The man who committed the physical sin of fornication is no more worthy of having a repentant heart than those who also condoned it.
They were both equally guilty, one physically and the other spiritually.
I guess they thought because they were "saved" that there would be no consequences for either their actions or acceptance of sinning in the church.

So Paul called them out and said, Hey, what your doing isn't good. You should be sorrowful that this is happening and you should have called it out and nipped it in the bud.
The more you allow this behavior the larger it will grow.

Is repentance necessary for salvation or only belief in Jesus?

Yes, both.
But first you have to believe. If you don't believe, why would you repent and turn from your ways?
If I say I am saved and still go out and steal or lie or deliberately hurt people, then truly I am not saved.

This is what repentance looks like:
Eph 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness."

How can you repent if you don't first believe who you are repenting to?

Hugs

 

[seer]

To repent means to turn from your old ways and turn to the Lord.
If you continue to walk in sin knowing that Jesus died to remove your sins, then your belief itself is in question.
Because if you believe Jesus died for your sins, you won't walk in them anymore.

Paul wrote a letter to the Corinthians concerning a man that was committing fornication in the church.
1 Corinthians chapter 5.

1Co 5:1
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

In 2 Corinthians chapter 7, Paul goes on to say.. After they put the man out of the church...
2Co 7:8
For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
2Co 7:9
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

What was that that they needed to repent of?

1. to be puffed up, to bear one's self loftily, be proud

1Co 5:6
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

The man who committed the physical sin of fornication is no more worthy of having a repentant heart than those who also condoned it.
They were both equally guilty, one physically and the other spiritually.
I guess they thought because they were "saved" that there would be no consequences for either their actions or acceptance of sinning in the church.

So Paul called them out and said, Hey, what your doing isn't good. You should be sorrowful that this is happening and you should have called it out and nipped it in the bud.
The more you allow this behavior the larger it will grow.


Yes, both.
But first you have to believe. If you don't believe, why would you repent and turn from your ways?
If I say I am saved and still go out and steal or lie or deliberately hurt people, then truly I am not saved.

This is what repentance looks like:
Eph 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness."

How can you repent if you don't first believe who you are repenting to?

Hugs

Curious to discuss, not to argue, your quote was all Paul, do you believe that he is the one assigned to teach how we are saved

 

[Ziggy]

Curious to discuss, not to argue, your quote was all Paul, do you believe that he is the one assigned to teach how we are saved

Jhn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Mat 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I quote from Peter also, and Timothy and Titus and Jude and John.
The point I was trying to get across just happened to be in Paul's Epistles.
I do believe that Paul was sent to preach to the Gentile nations. And if he ran across Jews at the same time then sobeit.
God is not a respecter of persons. I'm sure he would have Paul speak to whomever would listen or needed to hear the gospel.

They were sent on a mission.

Act 26:14
And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 26:15
And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
Act 26:16
But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17
Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

[soberxp]

Define Sin

Sin is not to obey the word of God.

 

[Ziggy]

Mat 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

 

[Behold]

Moving the goal post. Sin. Sin not charged. Not the same thing. IF OSAS were true many Bible verses wouldn’t exit, like Jesus talking about salt THAT HAS LOST ITS FLAVOR will be thrown away. Do you think he was referring to seasoning?

NT 101 ...


@Wrangler .....WHEN you find a verse in the NT that shows Jesus talking to THE JEWS.....as He only came for the "house of Israel" during His MINISTRY.......then you can't take those verses and try to doctrinally apply them to the body of Christ because they were created before JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS.
In other words, they were given by Jesus before CHRISTianity was even begun by Jesus's Death and Resurrection.
And you dont know any of this because the idiot heretic or the cult church that spawned your devout Legalism, has kept you theologically hardened and will continue to do so......which is obvious.
And, you dont know this or recognized any of this....., because you are not a real bible student, yet.
You are just one more cult led Legalist who can't explain "imputed righteousness", nor can you even understand what it means to be "born again". "IN CHRIST">

Now, it will be very difficult for your self righteousness to even begin to want to know what this following verse means.
We understand.

Romans 6:14

.. And @Wrangler ... you cannot understand what it means to become "made righteous" because you can't understand what you have not experienced.
-

For (God) hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.
ASV
Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.
AMP
(God) made Christ who knew no sin to [judicially] be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we would become the righteousness of God [that is, we would be made acceptable to Him and placed in a right relationship with Him by His gracious lovingkindness].
AMPC
For our sake He made Christ [virtually] to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become [endued with, viewed as being in, and examples of] the righteousness of God [what we ought to be, approved and acceptable and in right relationship with Him, by His goodness].
BRG
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
CSB
(God) made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
CSBA
He made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
CEB
God caused the one who didn’t know sin to be sin for our sake so that through him we could become the righteousness of God.
CJB
God made this sinless man be a sin offering on our behalf, so that in union with him we might fully share in God’s righteousness.”
CEV
Christ never sinned! But God treated him as a sinner, so Christ could make us acceptable to God.
DARBY
Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that *we* might become God's righteousness in him.
DLNT
He made the One not having known sin to be sin for us, in order that we might become the righteousness of God in Him”...
DRA
Him, who knew no sin, he hath made sin for us, that we might be made the justice of God in him.
ERV
Christ had no sin, but God made him become sin so that in Christ we could be right with God.
EASY
Christ never did any wrong thing, but God punished him as if he had. He died as punishment for our sins. As a result, we become right with God when we belong to Christ. We become right, because he is right.
EHV
God made him, who did not know sin, to become sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him.
ESV
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
ESVUK
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
EXB
God made ·Christ [L the one] who ·had no sin [or never sinned; L did not know sin] to become sin for us, so that in ·Christ [L him] we could become ·right with [L the righteousness of] God.
GNV
For he hath made him to be sin for us, which knew no sin, that we should be made the righteousness of God in him.
GW
God had Christ, who was sinless, take our sin so that we might receive God’s approval through him.
GNT
Christ was without sin, but for our sake God made him share our sin in order that in union with him we might share the righteousness of God.
HCSB
He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
ICB
Christ had no sin. But God made him become sin. God did this for us so that in Christ we could become right with God.
ISV

 

[Wrangler]

Moving the goal post. Sin. Sin not charged. Not the same thing. IF OSAS were true many Bible verses wouldn’t exit, like Jesus talking about salt THAT HAS LOST ITS FLAVOR will be thrown away. Do you think he was referring to seasoning?

NT 101 ...

That you won't answer the question reveals you know your OSAS IDOL can't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[Wrangler]

They way you live free from sin, is to live no longer being judged by MOSES Law., as its the Law OF MOSES that defines you as a sinner and your deeds that break Moses Law as Transgressions. (SIN).

My Pastor taught that the Law of Moses never applied to us; it only applied to the Jews.

 

[Wrangler]

your ignorant Legalism

Putting aside your ignorant Hyper-grace ...

You are just one more cult led Legalist

... and personal attacks, I'll start a thread on how grace is established, its foundation and how it can be undone despite your theologically charged IDOLATROUS words.

imputed righteousness

born again

IN CHRIST

 

[Behold]

. and personal attacks, I'll start a thread on how grace is established, its foundation and how it can be undone

God's "Grace" is Jesus on The Cross.

You dont know this , because you've not encountered it according to what you POST........and that is why you keep trying to replace The Cross with Moses law and your own self effort to try to stay saved.
So, that is your "religion" and God is not in it. @Wrangler .

God will never accept you or keep you based on what YOU do, or what you try to do., and until you understand this, then you have not trusted in Christ.
And once you do, you'll stop talking about what you feel you = have to DO and DO and KEEP to try to save yourself and most of all, you'll begin to trust in Christ to keep you saved, and you're not there yet.

""""well behold, you have to understand that i know that Jesus started my salvation, but now i have to do the rest......""

See that?
That is a person who does not Trust in Christ and pretends they are a Christian.
Forums are filled with these water baptized religious fakiers, as are many PULPITS in the USA and worldwide.

 

[Wrangler]

God's "Grace" is Jesus on The Cross.

and that is why you keep trying to replace The Cross with Moses law and your own self effort to try to stay saved.

You're even denying the role Scripture places on our burden to have faith in Jesus to receive God's Grace.

The power of "yes" is the power of "no," which we retain at every moment with every subsequent choice we make. Do I follow the prompting of the HS in this moment, or do I backslide and give in to worldly temptations and act contrary to God's will?

Being saved doesn't mean we no longer have the capacity for choice. We remain moral agents who can choose sinfully. You be like:

 

[Behold]

View attachment 83278

"its not by our works (trying to keep Moses Law & the 10 Commandments) that we are saved, or kept saved....) but its only by God's Mercy".

A.) God's Mercy is Jesus on The Cross.

Jesus is : God's Salvation.

Salvation is all of God, and none of us..
All we can do, is RECEIVE by Faith, what God has offered on THe Cross, as our "Salvation".

Now "heretics" can't HEAR this Gospel of GRACE, and in fact they dont want it........as they have "moses law, and their self effort" which they Trust..
Hell is filled with these, and more of these water baptized religious fakirs will be going there today........in fact by the thousands.
They'll find out that trying to be good and trying to keep Moses Law and the 10 commandments, didnt keep them out of eternal judgement.

 

[Wrangler]

"its not by our works (trying to keep Moses Law & the 10 Commandments) that we are saved, or kept saved....) but its only by God's Mercy".

We agree with the part not in red. You are denying human's role in their own salvation. Why else would Paul write at Phil 2:12 work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?

And why else is universal salvation not proper doctrine? Because God's mercy has limits and it's not all about his mercy but our faith in God. A gift is of no use unless we receive it. I need a new car. My sister gives me a new car but I just ignore it and am no better off. Your IDOLATRY ignores this practical matter.

 

[Behold]

You are denying human's role in their own salvation.

The Cross of Christ is God' role in our Salvaiton.
Philip 1:6
So, its the self righteous heretic who claims on Television, and on Forums and from Pulpits, and inside YOUTUBE Videos.... that they are necessary in that situation.

And a Heretic then says...

"""""God look down here at my water baptism, and all my good works and my statues of Mary.... And look carefully at how im always trying my best to keep those 10 Commandments.......so see GOD, im helping you save me""".

There you are @Wrangler.........and im not just talking to you...

So, This type of self righteous person, is an offense to God's Grace and the NT proclaims in Heb. Chpts 6 & 10.....that they are a person who "trods" on The Blood of Jesus"" and in '2026 we find that they are too deceived to even realize it., as such is the power of the Devil to blind a mind... as Paul teaches.

So, reader how do you offend God's Grace and spit on The Cross?

You simply refuse to Give Jesus all the credit due Him for saving you and keeping you saved.

So, listen carefully..
= There is no other SALVATION......., tho you keep trying to hang from the Cross of your own Self righteousness... @Wrangler and you certainly are showing us how much you are enjoying it.

- See you there next time.... in your next 500 posts... and all your Threads...

 

[Wrangler]

There is no other SALVATION......., tho you keep trying to hang from the Cross of your own Self righteousness

Wrong again. My position is every moment we must maintain the humility of acting as one who needs a Lord and Savior. You imply once done, we can sin with impunity - or worse, deny it is possible for us to even sin after being saved, despite the evidence, invoking Ex post facto.

 

[Behold]

Wrong again. My position

See ..
that's one of your main issues..... you are only wanting to post and repost about ""YOUR position""..when the Siubject is regarding = GOD's Salvation through Christ......, and you are not yet able to realize this about yourself, but we already have.

-see you there next time.. @Wrangler