Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

[ewq1938]

Of course, the seals are prophecy of future events. When the seal is actually opened, the event will occur. It's simple.

That's not prophecy. Prophecy is when things are described but do not happen at that time but in the future. The events of the seals do not happen when the seals are opened which is how the seals are prophecy.

Could you explain what events I add to the 7th seal? I don't know of anything that I am adding.

You add the trumps and vials as part of the 7th seal. The 7th seal is only the 30 min of silence, not anything else.

 

[Trekson]

Any translation using "them" is still referring to the same people that other translations use the word "us" for. There is no change in who is being addressed. "us" is the better choice because that is what the Greek word means but "them" is fine as long as one understands the same people are being referred to.

It is still referring to the church, but it is a choir of angels that are singing about the "church" and NOT about "themselves". That's the difference it makes.

 

[Trekson]

They are elders, not angels.

I don't believe that you understand what first fruits are. First fruits are harvested first and presented to the priest, or in this case Jesus. They are before the throne of God and are redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


Correct. It does not imply that the 144,000 are singing the song of Moses. The 144,000 are singing a new song before the throne and no man can learn the song but the 144,000 that are redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Those that are singing the song of Moses, sing this song before throne in THE MAIN HARVEST. The 144,000 are first fruits of this harvest. Here is the main harvest........which is the second harvest.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Here is another view of this harvest. Again, this is the second harvest and it occurs at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The 5th seal martyrs are going to be mostly Jews. The Church will already be in heaven before any seals are opened. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. Contrary to popular belief there is only 3.5 years left in the 70th week of Daniel.

So the final week will begin when a 7-year covenant with many is made. The Church will not be raptured before the week begins as Noah was not in the ark 7 days before the flood. The day of the seven, Noah was loading the animals and we don't know what day Noah was sealed in the ark. When the Church is raptured, the fullness of the Gentiles will be come in. Then blindness will be removed from part of Israel.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The great tribulation is about the Jews. Any Gentile raptured during the great tribulation will be the poor and the stranger, meaning they have not heard the Gospel prior to the tribulation.

That must be your understanding IF pretrib was correct. Now how would you understand it if there wasn't a pretrib rapture and the church was still here?

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is a term called textual variance. The majority of the ancient texts lends itself to the fact that word "us" was changed from "them". If you look at the facts surrounding the verse. Who is singing? the four beasts and 24 elders. We know the four beasts are celestial beings w/no need of redemption and because of that that 24 elders must be celestial beings as well. It seems like it's mostly "KJ only" folks are the ones who insist that the word MUST be US, because if the word "them" is correct, then it blows their pre-trib rapture scenario to smithereens.

The Greek proves you wrong.

You need to show how the Greek is wrong.
Not how you think it should be translated.

You are attempting to void the pretrib rapture verses.
The bible does not operate that way.

 

[The Light]

That's not prophecy. Prophecy is when things are described but do not happen at that time but in the future. The events of the seals do not happen when the seals are opened which is how the seals are prophecy.

Again, I cannot comprehend your line of thought. What you are saying to me is that you do not believe what is written.

This is so simple that your line of reasoning just boggles my mind.

John had a vision. John says when each seal is opened...............the event happens.

Rev 6
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

No seals are opened. When the first seal is opened an Antichrist........the beast of the earth........will go forth conquering and to conquer.

When that seal is opened in the future, that event will happen.

You add the trumps and vials as part of the 7th seal. The 7th seal is only the 30 min of silence, not anything else.

This is like you telling me that I am adding to each seal. Then I ask, what am I adding? And you respond, the first seal is a white horse and you have added that he goes forth conquering and to conquer.

I am not adding anything to the 7th seal.

Revelation 8

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Thanks for answering my question. I think your confusion stems from Rev 6 when the Word says thy wrath is come. Wrath has not begun and will not begin until the 7th seal is opened.

 

[The Light]

Most of that is supposition about what folks "think" it is saying. It doesn't mean they are correct.

The Word is clear enough.

Jesus comes at the 6th seal. It is the second coming. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes across the earth are gathered from the earth. Those of Israel that fled to a place of protection remain on the earth during the wrath of God. After the angels gather the elect, all return to heaven for the marriage supper. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7, some of whom come out of great tribulation. After the marriage supper all follow Jesus as part of the armies of heaven for Armageddon.

 

[The Light]

That must be your understanding IF pretrib was correct. Now how would you understand it if there wasn't a pretrib rapture and the church was still here?

I used to be prewrath.

Then I realized that the fig tree has two harvests. That changes everything.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

I realized why there is the days of Noah............and also the days of Lot.

I realized that the Lord Himself comes at one coming...........and He sends His angels at another coming.

I realized He comes at the trump of God or voice of God at one coming......and He comes at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets at another coming.

I could go on and on, but I can't read scripture without seeing two harvests...........grain and fruit. I see two folds because the Word says there are two folds.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two raptures, just as the Word of God says.

 

[Trekson]

The Word is clear enough.

Jesus comes at the 6th seal. It is the second coming. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes across the earth are gathered from the earth. Those of Israel that fled to a place of protection remain on the earth during the wrath of God. After the angels gather the elect, all return to heaven for the marriage supper. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7, some of whom come out of great tribulation. After the marriage supper all follow Jesus as part of the armies of heaven for Armageddon.

The great multitude is the raptured/resurrected church and there is no wedding supper in heaven prophesied, nor is the church ever called the bride of Christ in the bible.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The great multitude is the raptured/resurrected church and there is no wedding supper in heaven prophesied, nor is the church ever called the bride of Christ in the bible.

Wrong.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

This passage makes it clear that Christ is the husband to His bride/wife, the church. The parable in Matthew 25:1-13 also illustrates this. It presents Jesus as the bridegroom and the five wise virgins represent His church as His bride that He marries when He comes again.

 

[David in NJ]

Tell me it ain't so.
Today, at this late hour, pushing aside the bible, to place men, and their error , ahead of it.

The error/falsehood of 'pre-trib' rapture pushes aside all Scripture that exposes it.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

AFTER that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The error/falsehood of 'pre-trib' rapture pushes aside all Scripture that exposes it.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

AFTER that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Agree. The pre-trib rapture theory is a big joke. It couldn't be more clear that the rapture is post-trib, as you showed using scripture (pre-trib cannot be shown using scripture in any way, shape or form). The elect, according to scripture, are those in the church. But, pre-tribs try to say that the elect refers to Israel and/or the "trib saints" or some such nonsense. No. The elect are those who belong to Christ.

Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Paul made it clear that the elect are those who God is for and no one can be against, who God the Father delivered up His own Son for, who Christ makes intercession for and who no one can bring a charge against. That's the church.

 

[David in NJ]

There are two raptures, just as the Word of God says.

You will not find, anywhere in Scripture, two raptures.

Only ONE 1st Coming of Christ = Isaiah chapter 53 , John chapter 3

Only ONE 2nd Coming of Christ = Hebrews 9:28 , Matthew chapter 24 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Revelation 1:8

 

[David in NJ]

I used to be prewrath.

Then I realized that the fig tree has two harvests. That changes everything.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

I realized why there is the days of Noah............and also the days of Lot.

I realized that the Lord Himself comes at one coming...........and He sends His angels at another coming.

I realized He comes at the trump of God or voice of God at one coming......and He comes at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets at another coming.

I could go on and on, but I can't read scripture without seeing two harvests...........grain and fruit. I see two folds because the Word says there are two folds.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two raptures, just as the Word of God says.

How many folds did JESUS Say will BE at His 2nd Coming.................two or One

 

[Trekson]

I used to be prewrath.

Then I realized that the fig tree has two harvests. That changes everything.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

I realized why there is the days of Noah............and also the days of Lot.

I realized that the Lord Himself comes at one coming...........and He sends His angels at another coming.

I realized He comes at the trump of God or voice of God at one coming......and He comes at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets at another coming.

I could go on and on, but I can't read scripture without seeing two harvests...........grain and fruit. I see two folds because the Word says there are two folds.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two raptures, just as the Word of God says.

If one is taking the feasts of the Lord into consideration

I used to be prewrath.

Then I realized that the fig tree has two harvests. That changes everything.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

I realized why there is the days of Noah............and also the days of Lot.

I realized that the Lord Himself comes at one coming...........and He sends His angels at another coming.

I realized He comes at the trump of God or voice of God at one coming......and He comes at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets at another coming.

I could go on and on, but I can't read scripture without seeing two harvests...........grain and fruit. I see two folds because the Word says there are two folds.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two raptures, just as the Word of God says.

Yes, two harvests. The first one was Christ, the firstfruits of the resurrection, so that's already been fullfilled. If one considers a typical harvest, for the season there is "one" harvest but in three timings a first harvest, middle harvest and the last harvest before things go back to seed. So, "one" harvest remains. Normally, grains are planted in the winter and harvested in the spring, but fruits normally just harvest in the fall, a fig tree is just a rare exception, so one can celebrate it's harvest twice thus it lines up as a spring harvest and a fall harvest. Again, only one harvest remains, the 'fall" harvest which is part of Sukkot, aka,the Feast of Tabernacles. Regarding Noah and Lot the passages aren't pointing out different timings of anything, just that in both examples men had become degenerate thus the "need" for judgment as will be the case for this final judgment of God of this dispensation. You'll have to provide scrip showing the difference of the comings as you described. In the case of Rev. 20:4, they are the latter fruit of the first resurrection. If you would like to discuss just the 144,000 in a little more detail, I'm open to it. I see them a little differently but maybe the truth could be a combo of the two views.

 

[WPM]

I used to be prewrath.

Then I realized that the fig tree has two harvests. That changes everything.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

I realized why there is the days of Noah............and also the days of Lot.

I realized that the Lord Himself comes at one coming...........and He sends His angels at another coming.

I realized He comes at the trump of God or voice of God at one coming......and He comes at the last trump, blown on the Feast of Trumpets at another coming.

I could go on and on, but I can't read scripture without seeing two harvests...........grain and fruit. I see two folds because the Word says there are two folds.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two raptures, just as the Word of God says.

So, Scripture means nothing to you? You take your theology from nature and make Scripture fit it. That sums up your position. It enjoys zero support in the inspired text.

 

[ewq1938]

nor is the church ever called the bride of Christ in the bible.

That's wrong.

Christians (the Church) are the bride/wife:

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Here we are told plainly that the example of a man and his wife being of one flesh is about Christ and the church.


Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God


Here again it is Christians that will marry Christ who was raised from the dead.


2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


Spoken to Christians, the church, being presented as Virgins in a spiritual sense to one Husband who is Christ.

 

[Trekson]

That's wrong.

Christians (the Church) are the bride/wife:

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Here we are told plainly that the example of a man and his wife being of one flesh is about Christ and the church.


Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God


Here again it is Christians that will marry Christ who was raised from the dead.


2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


Spoken to Christians, the church, being presented as Virgins in a spiritual sense to one Husband who is Christ.

This took a little work to tackle. The whole gist of Eph. 5 is summed up in vs. 30 where the "one flesh" isn't stressing marriage, it's a metaphor using the relationship between the man and the wife to explain the unity we already have with Christ and should have with each other and it is more accurately is explained in other texts as "being the body of Christ"! I have a resource book I use called the "Englishman's Greek Concordance of the NT. This book expands upon the Strong's by not only showing how many times a word is used but in how many different ways it is used. The word "married" as used in Rom. 7:3-4, G1096 is the only time in over 800 scriptures to be translated as "married". In most cases, it is translated as, "came to pass", "be", "fulfilled", and "was". Out of 62 translations "married" is used in 9 of them. The main way it is used is as "belonged to" or "united", or "joined". In describing the body of Christ, the word "joined" and those akin to it are the words most often used. So, No neither of those passages are actually describing marriage, they are using marriage to describe unity. The word that is normally used to describe "marry" is G1060. 2 Cor. 11 the word "espoused" is G718 which means "joint". The other two times this word is used it is G3423 as in "being betrothed". As you can see, in all three of your examples the KJ translation is misleading in its word selection. In these examples, only one thing is being spoken of and that is the word unity, not marriage.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This took a little work to tackle. The whole gist of Eph. 5 is summed up in vs. 30 where the "one flesh" isn't stressing marriage, it's a metaphor using the relationship between the man and the wife to explain the unity we already have with Christ and should have with each other and it is more accurately is explained in other texts as "being the body of Christ"! I have a resource book I use called the "Englishman's Greek Concordance of the NT. This book expands upon the Strong's by not only showing how many times a word is used but in how many different ways it is used. The word "married" as used in Rom. 7:3-4, G1096 is the only time in over 800 scriptures to be translated as "married". In most cases, it is translated as, "came to pass", "be", "fulfilled", and "was". Out of 62 translations "married" is used in 9 of them. The main way it is used is as "belonged to" or "united", or "joined". In describing the body of Christ, the word "joined" and those akin to it are the words most often used. So, No neither of those passages are actually describing marriage, they are using marriage to describe unity. The word that is normally used to describe "marry" is G1060. 2 Cor. 11 the word "espoused" is G718 which means "joint". The other two times this word is used it is G3423 as in "being betrothed". As you can see, in all three of your examples the KJ translation is misleading in its word selection. In these examples, only one thing is being spoken of and that is the word unity, not marriage.

By casting down the bride and groom dynamic of Christ and His bride, it tells me you have sat under mental teachers.

I attend a mens bible study 3 times a week.
They are all baptists...( mentalists)
I have brought the bride and Groom dynamic up several times and it goes completely over their heads.
By casting down allegory, you end up with;
1...Ruth becomes a history book with no allegorical meaning.
2...Song of Solomon...the same.
3...The virgin parable becomes a tedious fog.
4...the book of Hebrews becomes one dimensional, and nothing is gained from the deep allegory.

You are gambling away a ton of revelation.

Instead of dismissing the very heart of heaven, it might be wise to heed the deeper things of God.

BTW...The final words of the bible, are the bride and the spirit calling out to the groom.

Heaven's parting words are the bride of Christ centered
Christ's first miracle was at a wedding.
Water transformed via an impossibility into wine.
It was declared" you saved the best for last...pointing to the final harvest of the Jews.....ahem....the wayward wife.
Pointing to Gomer...and thatvis pointing to the Jews..God's wife.

If the bride of Christ is off the table, then the wayward wife, Gomer/ God's covenant Jews,must be also. (To be consistent)

 

[rebuilder 454]

That's wrong.

Christians (the Church) are the bride/wife:

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Here we are told plainly that the example of a man and his wife being of one flesh is about Christ and the church.


Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God


Here again it is Christians that will marry Christ who was raised from the dead.


2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


Spoken to Christians, the church, being presented as Virgins in a spiritual sense to one Husband who is Christ.

You did a beautiful job in that.
End times will never be understood without that dynamic.

You will not find, anywhere in Scripture, two raptures.

Only ONE 1st Coming of Christ = Isaiah chapter 53 , John chapter 3

Only ONE 2nd Coming of Christ = Hebrews 9:28 , Matthew chapter 24 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Revelation 1:8

There are 3 horses in the pasture
You went and found one of them.
And then declare the other two don't exist because you didn't find them.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You will not find, anywhere in Scripture, two raptures.

Only ONE 1st Coming of Christ = Isaiah chapter 53 , John chapter 3

Only ONE 2nd Coming of Christ = Hebrews 9:28 , Matthew chapter 24 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Revelation 1:8

Pretend Rev 14:14 is something other than what it is.
Just do that.
...and keep doing it.