Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

[The Light]

According to the LORD, the first fold are the Jews/12 apostles & Pentecost as Promised:
a.)Genesis 18:1-15 and chapters 21-22
b.) Jeremiah 31:31-37
c.) Matthew chapter 1
d.) Luke chapter
e.) John 4:21-22
f.) Matt 15:21-26
g.) Acts chapters 1 thru 3
h.) Acts chapter 13
i.) Romans 1:16
j.) Romans chapters 9 thru 11

According to the Lord, they would not gather.

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

According to the Word of God the fullness of the Gentiles must come before blindness is removed from part of Israel.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

According to the Word of God the fathers of Israel were seen as the first fruits of the fig at her first time. But they served Baalpeor. The fathers of Israel would not be the first fruits of the first harvest. This is exactly why there are 144,000 first fruits of 12 tribes, after the pre great tribulation rapture of the Church.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

 

[WPM]

According to the Lord, they would not gather.

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

According to the Word of God the fullness of the Gentiles must come before blindness is removed from part of Israel.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

According to the Word of God the fathers of Israel were seen as the first fruits of the fig at her first time. But they served Baalpeor. The fathers of Israel would not be the first fruits of the first harvest. This is exactly why there are 144,000 first fruits of 12 tribes, after the pre great tribulation rapture of the Church.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The first-fruits are already in. Hello! You are trying to make them the last-fruits. This is how messed up Pretrib is.

 

[The Light]

Same event. What you are describing is in Rev 19. Is that a 3rd coming in your theology? This occurs way after the 6th and 7th seal.

The coming of Jesus with the armies of heaven is the Day of the Lord and it occurs................

Revelation 16
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[The Light]

The first-fruits are already in. Hello! You are trying to make them the last-fruits. This is how messed up Pretrib is.

The first fruits of those that sleep are in when Jesus was raised from the grave. And the first fruits of Gentiles are in. But not the first fruits of the 12 tribes. That will not happen until the 144,000 of twelve tribes are redeemed from the earth.

 

[The Light]

There is only one fold.

There are other sheep not the first fold that must be brought. They are the second fold. The two folds will be joined together and are the great multitude that are in heaven for the marriage supper during the 7th seal, one year wrath of God.

 

[David in NJ]

According to the Lord, they would not gather.

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

According to the Word of God the fullness of the Gentiles must come before blindness is removed from part of Israel.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

According to the Word of God the fathers of Israel were seen as the first fruits of the fig at her first time. But they served Baalpeor. The fathers of Israel would not be the first fruits of the first harvest. This is exactly why there are 144,000 first fruits of 12 tribes, after the pre great tribulation rapture of the Church.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

That is the nation of Israel that rejected CHRIST = they are NOT included as the 'Elect' in CHRIST

The two folds that CHRIST spoke of making them One Fold with One Shepherd is Jew & Gentile in CHRIST

 

[The Light]

That is the nation of Israel that rejected CHRIST = they are NOT included as the 'Elect' in CHRIST

The two folds that CHRIST spoke of making them One Fold with One Shepherd is Jew & Gentile in CHRIST

So you agree. Sweet. About time.

 

[David in NJ]

So you agree. Sweet. About time.

It is easy to agree with each other when we abide under Christ and His every word = Matt 4:4

 

[David in NJ]

There are other sheep not the first fold that must be brought. They are the second fold. The two folds will be joined together and are the great multitude that are in heaven for the marriage supper during the 7th seal, one year wrath of God.

Rev 10:7 - but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

 

[The Light]

Rev 10:7 - but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

Not sure of your point.

 

[Trekson]

So you agree............


The first fruits with Christ rising has happened, but the harvest of Gentiles has not happened.

There has been no spring harvest of the dead in Christ.
There has been no summer harvest of the alive that remain.
There has been no first fruits of the 12 tribes.
There has been no harvest of the 12 tribes.


As the days of Noah will occur for the Church. Noah is in the ark before the flood.

As the days of Lot is for the 12 tribes across the earth. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

Yes, destruction came, but Noah and Lot didn't leave the earth. Look at the firstfruits in the context of the parable about the workers, Matt. 20:1-16. We are told many came out of their graves at Christ's resurrection.

 

[Trekson]

Always rely on the Word of God

LORD JESUS words - Matthew 19:3-6
The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Apostle Paul's words from the HOLY SPIRIT - 1 Corinthians 6:16
Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her?
For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.”

The key word here is joined. Since we are speaking about a spiritual union, the act of sex isn't a consideration. The "one flesh" is equivalent to the "one new man" of Eph. 2:11-18.

 

[WPM]

The coming of Jesus with the armies of heaven is the Day of the Lord and it occurs................

Revelation 16
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

The sixth seal is the end of the world. It sees the change from time to eternity. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked.

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

Once again, this text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

• The sun becomes black.
• The moon becomes as blood.
• The stars of heaven fall unto the earth.
• The heaven departs like a scroll.
• Every mountain and island are moved out of their places.

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This is the end of the world. There are no survivors! This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it – men are either caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives.

Revelation 16:12-14: “And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.”

Revelation 16:15-21: “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done (or gegonen). And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.”

How can anyone survive this? This is the end of the world! When Christ returns, He shakes the hole of creation and destroys all the wicked. The universe is convulsing in this narrative as God calls time on corruption and rebellion. This is not some mere localized event. It is global! The “great earthquake” described is so colossal that “the cities of the nations fell” and “every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.” The whole earth is shaken. This corruptible earth is having seizures before it is transformed.

 

[WPM]

There are other sheep not the first fold that must be brought. They are the second fold. The two folds will be joined together and are the great multitude that are in heaven for the marriage supper during the 7th seal, one year wrath of God.

Move into the new covenant. Jesus told His Jewish disciples in John 10:14-16 that there were “other sheep … which are not of this fold” which would be brought into His fold and they would “be one fold, and one shepherd,” talking about the NT overwhelmingly Gentile Church.

 

[WPM]

The first fruits of those that sleep are in when Jesus was raised from the grave. And the first fruits of Gentiles are in. But not the first fruits of the 12 tribes. That will not happen until the 144,000 of twelve tribes are redeemed from the earth.

You are mixing subjects. That is talking about the first resurrection of Christ 2000 years ago from the dead. The other passages are talking about salvation. Different subject. Pay attention!

The 144,000 are the early church. This harvest has already occurred.

 

[The Light]

Yes, destruction came, but Noah and Lot didn't leave the earth.

Noah left the surface of the earth and was in the clouds. Lot left Sodom.

Look at the firstfruits in the context of the parable about the workers, Matt. 20:1-16. We are told many came out of their graves at Christ's resurrection.

Right, many came out of their graves............first fruits.

 

[WPM]

Noah left the surface of the earth and was in the clouds. Lot left Sodom.

Right, many came out of their graves............first fruits.

Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?

 

[WPM]

Noah left the surface of the earth and was in the clouds. Lot left Sodom.

Right, many came out of their graves............first fruits.

Is Revelation 19 your 3rd rapture?

 

[The Light]

The sixth seal is the end of the world.

The 6th seal is the end of the age. The great tribulation is over and the 7th seal wrath of God is about to begin.

It sees the change from time to eternity. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked.

The wicked do not get destroyed until the 7th seal is opened which contains Gods wrath.

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

The 7th seal is the time of Gods wrath upon the earth........not the 6th seal.

Once again, this text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

The great tribulation is when the beast is killing believers. It is over at the 6th seal.

Wrath has not yet begun until the 7th seal is opened.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

• The sun becomes black.
• The moon becomes as blood.
• The stars of heaven fall unto the earth.
• The heaven departs like a scroll.
• Every mountain and island are moved out of their places.

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This is the end of the world. There are no survivors! This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

There is a rapture at the 6th seal. The unrighteous have not experienced the wrath of God and will not until the 7th seal is opened.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it – men are either caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives.

Revelation 16:12-14: “And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.”

Revelation 16:15-21: “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done (or gegonen). And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.”

How can anyone survive this? This is the end of the world! When Christ returns, He shakes the hole of creation and destroys all the wicked. The universe is convulsing in this narrative as God calls time on corruption and rebellion. This is not some mere localized event. It is global! The “great earthquake” described is so colossal that “the cities of the nations fell” and “every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.” The whole earth is shaken. This corruptible earth is having seizures before it is transformed.

What you don't realize is what you posted is the 7th seal which is the wrath of God. Those verses in Rev 16 that you posted about Armageddon is about the Day of the Lord which occurs at the end of wrath.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the 6th seal.

 

[The Light]

Move into the new covenant. Jesus told His Jewish disciples in John 10:14-16 that there were “other sheep … which are not of this fold” which would be brought into His fold and they would “be one fold, and one shepherd,” talking about the NT overwhelmingly Gentile Church.

The first fold is the Gentiles. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will realize that Jesus is the Messiah as their blindness is removed. The second fold is the 12 tribes across the earth.

The folds will happen at different times. The Church is raptured before the great tribulation. The second fold is raptured at the 6th seal, seen here.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The two folds go to heaven for the marriage supper and are one fold........the great multitude.