Certainly thankful that I know God has saved me, and it wasn't me that saved me. I would always be wondering if I did it right, always looking over my shoulder. Was my confession of faith good enough? Was I sincere enough when "I" accepted Him? I certainly wouldn't want to lose my salvation. Ugh. Gotta keep crossing my t's and dotting my I's. You never know when God might pull the rug out from under me.
Many Say ‘Just Believe’… But What Did Jesus Actually Teach?
- Thread starter LoveYeshua
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PS95
Well-Known Member
Geez PY- I'm so sorry if you feel I was being judgmental. I never intended that at all. I'm still not quite sure why you feel that way. I reread what I wrote.. ?
We bumped heads on this way back when you first began posting and you said some rotten things to me and others. I didn't do that to you. Shall I get the thread for you? For you- it seems observing Saturday is salvational. Paul is a liar and a deceiver- correct?
I gave you scriptures and you accused Paul of being a false teacher- a deceiver. So- here I am unable to discuss the book of Hebrews with you? Paul wrote the bulk of the NT-so most of the NT is out the window too?
How can I seriously take you seriously on here knowing that pretty much ALL of us on here are disobedient to God because we may go to church on Sunday?
It's hard on this site to know who is accepting only Paul and who rejects Paul. It does matter- when I'm discussing something with them I have to decide who I can quote from. -
As to the Sabbath- it made perfect sense to me with your OP. You were speaking about the commandments- and obedience etc.. not just an empty profession and I agreed with you. I know many here don't- and call it performance or works if we say obedience is important. But to your Op- if it was not about obedience and commandments then fine- my post was off topic- but I don't believe it to be so.
If you prefer not to discuss what you say is required as obedience- maybe posting about obedience wasn't the best idea.
I didn't mean to hit a nerve. Then again- yeah it needs to be out in the open- why hide from what you believe? You believe that you are teaching others on here? We have every right to test what you are teaching. Do you deny that?
if you knew how many attacks i get every day because I speak of Christ and what he does teach, you would understand. there is quite a lot of false things in this reply also can you spot them? probably not so we will leave it at that.
If you want to discuss Hebrews no problem im all ears, give me what you think of the verse(s) and please quote the verses you want to discuss. I have no problem with that at all.
To be clear I judge No one I teach the words of Jesus because Many have forgotten OR they follow False Doctrine. I am not an expert on the thousands of denomination but I know a false Doctrine when I read it and most say different from what Jesus was teaching. To me His words are Life, he is the only one who can save us but for him to do so he gives us a choice to listen ot not, His words are not always easy to hear but they are the truth. Also we must remember God does not change, this is most important.
Luther It is God the father who decides and who he will call, he chose you and called you, from there it becomes our choice but it becomes easy if we take it one day at a time just as Jesus spoke;
Here are clear words from Jesus that fit with that idea, that God calls, and we must respond.
Jesus shows that the Father is the one who calls:
John 6:44
“No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him.”
And again:
John 6:65
“No man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.”
So it begins with God. He draws, He calls.
But Jesus also shows that once called, the person must choose to respond and continue.
Matthew 22:14
“Many are called, but few chosen.”
This shows that being called is not the same as finishing the path.
He also says:
John 5:40
“And ye will not come to me, that ye may have life.”
Here we see clearly, the invitation is there, but some refuse to come. That is a choice.
And again:
John 8:31
“If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples.”
So after coming, we must remain.
And He says:
Matthew 7:21
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom… but he that doeth the will of my Father.”
So it is not only being called or even saying the right things, but doing the will of God and not our own.
God is the one who calls and draws.
But each person must choose to come, to follow, and to remain until the end.
Jesus spoke about following Him daily and about taking life one day at a time.
Here is where He calls us to follow Him:
Matthew 16:24
“If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”
And in another place, He makes it even clearer that this is a daily walk:
Luke 9:23
“If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.”
So following Him is not just one moment, it is something we choose each day.
Then He also teaches us not to be overwhelmed by the future, but to live one day at a time:
Matthew 6:34
“Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”
Jesus shows us this:
Follow Him each day.
Carry your cross each day.
And trust God for each day.
We do not need to carry tomorrow today. We just need to walk with Him faithfully right now. this makes everything so much easier, one day at a time.
Blessings
PS95
Well-Known Member
I get them on here, as well. It is to be expected, I guess- BUT not from other believers-- tho, but it sure begs the question, doesn't it?
I am not attacking you, so I don't want you to feel that way at all. I am questioning what you teach here- that is all. That's ok isn't it?
I'm not sure of anything "false" in my reply, so If you would point those out and correct me- I'm all ears. I see no point in continuing an attempt to communicate with you if I misunderstand you. So please, correct me where I am mistaken.
I did tell you ch 4. I don't know why we would discuss that if you don't accept Paul. That is the problem I have. You are never going to see what I'm showing you about the Sabbath if you can't accept Paul (warts and all) as apostle to the Gentiles sent by the Lord. it's such a shame because it's really very beautiful. Jesus is our Sabbath- He is the whole idea behind "rest"
ok
Many do. I agree. I have never heard of half of the stuff I read on here. I'm not even sure if they were taught this stuff in a church or made it up themselves. What it is though is clearly- cherry picking verses. Paul is a prime target for people- He isn't always the easiest to understand-it takes time and allowing scripture to interpret scripture- but in no way did he teach antinomianism like they seem to preach
The cherry picking isnt only with Paul- it's done with John also- 1 john - some people here can't sin now too!
His words are life. I agree- God does not change- but His covenants do. That's a good thing for us.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Hi L-
It is a step by step Way and Order…
Simply put…
You went through the beginning to hear about God /Christ…
The curiosity, wondering, believing some, doubting, blah, blah, for however long.
You know when You decided, to choose a standing.
And You know the moment you decided to go to an altar call, or simply where-ever, that heart tug, you were ready and sure to MAKE a commitment…
Done Deal… you Are forgiven…you ARE no longer “in charge” by your own power to Remain Believing / Faithful…
Being soul Saved, spirit Born Again…
You can Never Again, doubt, deny, reject (ie. sin) Against God…by, through, of Gods power “IN” You …
Glory to God,
Taken
I have never heard of such a thing, being chosen of God to exercise your free will. It's non- sensical because those actions are diametrically opposed to one another.
I encourage others to simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It may just be that they will be chosen to salvation.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Absolutely.
All men, must make their Heartful confession… Scripturally (and obviously), while they are Alive in their natural mortal Flesh…
“Receiving” the Gift of Salvation comes AFTER the man is “Accounted” ( in God / records / Books )
“Bodily DEAD”
Because… the Soul saving, Spirit quickening (rebirth)… can not happen in the old corrupt body.
1Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Some WILL be mortally Dead.
Some (crucified with Jesus’ Body), fulfill their requirement of Bodily Dead… and receive their Salvation …BEFORE mortal/ physical Death…
They… live in Christs “holy glorious Risen Body”…
Until their own body is risen up.
Called “IN Christ”.
The “Tasters”… are following along, believing, being blessed…
But not committing… thus not saved.
The “eaters” are committing, by their Heartful word and Crucifixion with Jesus’ Body.
John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
[52] The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
[53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Tasters are Not the Saved.
Eaters become the Saved.
Commitment Before Bodily Death.
Receipt of Salvation AFTER bodily Death.
Can a saved man, come back to living, and return his salvation gift to God?
No
Does Scripture ever teach a saved man can become unsaved?
No
Does Scripture Teach a “taster” can stop believing?
Yes.
Will anyone, who is not believing when they mortally die… lose / forfeit receiving that gift?
Yes.
Hope that helps
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Everyone has FREEWILL…
It is by our own FREEWILL… we chose to hear, continue hearing, hang awhile, walk away.
Adam was presented herbs, trees to eat from, with ONE warning / Rule so to speak… yet had FREEWILL to eat wherever…and did.
Glory to God,
Taken
To be born again is to be born of the Spirit of God, which is His work completely.
Doing those things you mentioned will certainly make you feel good, but it ain't about your feelings. It's about Christ's Resurrection power applied to your soul.
The Atonement of Christ is 100% effective. He did not die in vain hoping that someone will choose His sacrifice. That's absurd.
PS95
Well-Known Member
hi Taken- it seems to me that osas is a lack of freewill. If we can no longer choose to leave the faith how is that freewill?
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you did not understand what Jesus spoke of in the verses I gave you ans quickly dismissed them as nothing. do you believe his words? don't be fooled by false doctrine there is plenty of that going around.
Do you believe this parable of Jesus that say many will hear but reject his words?
Here is one of the main parables about the seed, spoken by Jesus:
Parable of the Sower (KJV)
Matthew 13:3–9
“Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
Jesus later explains that the seed is the word of God, and the ground is the heart of people.
Some hearts are like the path. The word is heard, but it is quickly taken away. It does not stay.
Some are like rocky ground. They receive the word with joy, but it has no deep root. When trouble comes, they fall away.
Some are like thorns. They hear the word, but worries, riches, and desires of life choke it, and it does not grow.
But some are good ground. They hear the word, keep it, and live by it. Their life begins to change, and they bring fruit.
The meaning is simple: it is not only hearing the word that matters, but how we receive it and live it. The same seed is given to all, but the heart decides what it becomes.
Jesus spoke very clearly that the way to life is not wide and easy, but narrow and hard to stay on;
The narrow way (KJV)
Matthew 7:13–14
“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
Here Jesus shows two paths. One is easy and many walk on it, but it ends in destruction. The other is narrow, and few stay on it, but it leads to life. This already tells us that not all who begin will end well.
He also warned that calling Him “Lord” is not enough.
Not everyone who says “Lord” (KJV)
Matthew 7:21
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
So salvation is not just words or belief. It must be followed by doing the will of God.
Then Jesus gives a warning that shows a person can appear to belong to Him and still be rejected.
Matthew 7:22–23
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? …
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
These people thought they were safe, but they were living in sin. This shows that a person can think they are saved and still be lost in the end.
Jesus also spoke about staying in Him, like a branch in a vine.
The vine and the branches (KJV)
John 15:5–6
“I am the vine, ye are the branches…
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
A branch is already connected, but if it does not remain, it is cut off. This shows that staying matters. It is not just starting.
And again He says:
John 15:10
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love…”
So remaining in Him is tied to obedience.
Jesus also spoke about endurance to the end.
Endure to the end (KJV)
Matthew 24:13
“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
If salvation could never be lost, there would be no need to endure. But Jesus says the one who continues to the end is the one who is saved.
Jesus teaches that the way is narrow, and few walk it all the way. Many begin, many believe, many even call Him Lord, but not all remain faithful.
Salvation is like a path you walk, not just a door you pass once like many think. A person can turn away, stop obeying, or let the cares of life take over. That is why Jesus keeps calling people to continue, to remain, and to endure.
So the message is not fear, but watchfulness. Stay close to Him, listen to His words, and live them daily. Those who continue with Him to the end are the ones who enter life.
I am sorry you find the verses I gave you from Jesus to be absurd, its not the first time I see this and not the last.
Taken
Well-Known Member
The choosing is exercising one’s FREEWILL.
It is a matter of Freely Choosing Something That is not secret… it is a permanent Choice.
Then to consider…
God is all-Knowing.
Think He will give to you, something you will later complain, you do not want?
Your Warning…
2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
If you are NOT sure… do not make that calling.
Because if you are not sure and make that calling… Guess What?
You Lied to God.
And? No Salvation would be given you.
Remember…
Salvation is Decided… asked for while you are alive in your flesh…
And given you after your flesh is accounted Dead.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Many Say ‘Just Believe’… But What Did Jesus Actually Teach?
Belief is a mans FREEWILL Choice.
There is a condition…
* Belief while Mortally Alive.
* Belief… at the moment of Dying?
- shall be saved.
* Stopped believing… and at the moment of death?
- shall not be saved.
Glory to God,
Taken
Belief is a mans FREEWILL Choice.
There is a condition…
* Belief while Mortally Alive.
* Belief… at the moment of Dying?
- shall be saved.
* Stopped believing… and at the moment of death?
- shall not be saved.
Glory to God,
Taken
PS95
Well-Known Member
So in a nutshell- aside from all man's logic you wrote. I'm still asking you how we have freewill if we can't choose to leave the faith?
Did you mean to say that we only have freewill to choose Christ up until we come to Christ, but then He removes our freewill so we can't leave the faith?
I think the bible teaches that He chooses us-
No one can come to Son unless the Father calls them to Him. Jo 6:44
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. JO 6:37
And he said “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” Jo 6:35
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. Jo 10:16
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
Jo 6:39
Seems we are worlds apart on this. I see it as He chooses us- not the other way around. & He will never cast us out. The Holy Spirit helps us to abide in Him by guiding us- we can grieve the Spirit.
But my problem with your brand of OSAS Is this---
What you guys say about people who say they are saved, but after a time, they deny Christ and go on to live in all manner of sins for the rest of their lives- and die that way. ... is that person still saved? You say yes.
I say NO- That is not the work of the Spirit of God!
What you guys teach is teaching antinomianism --
That is denying far too much scripture-- including,
We will know them by their fruits!
PS
As to 2 Peter- that was a different topic-
- you are missing my point in the your thread. I gave you the entire chapter- I was addressing your thread then where you claimed you can't sin. remember?
Peter there lays out a set of helps, so that we won't stumble.
We are to grow in holiness as we abide in Him- we do stumble and sin. We stumble in many ways.
Peter is merely feeding the sheep, as Jesus told him to.
Paul is not the only one sent to the Gentiles- Peter also was and did minister to gentiles. Paul took it over for the most part, but that does not mean Peter is not for teaching Gentiles. ..as some wrongly say..
Paul had a TON to say about growing in the Lord, abiding in the Spirit and living godly lives in holiness- putting to death the the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit.
I'm gonna leave this here now for LoveYeshua to take over with you. I usually stay out of osas fights because they get too nasty and you guys are stubborn. I don't like the spirit of it all.
It appears the OP must be about osas and keeping 10 commandments.
I offered some food for thought, Taken.
But I leave it here..
I would never say the Word of God is absurd. I'm saying it to your interpretation of it.
The reason why Jesus came to redeem His chosen is because none of us has the the power to make ourselves righteous before God. If He came to redeem the whole world, the whole world would be able to stand before God.
We can believe with our minds and fall away. Bur if we believe through the faith of Christ we will always have a relationship with Him. He will never cast us away.
1) Chosen before the world began
2) The Holy Spirit draws that individual to Christ, through the hearing of the Word of God
3) With a new resurrected soul, and wit eyes to see, with a new heart that individual then believes, truly believes in Jesus Christ.
4) Now we are patiently waiting for our Lord's return.
Taken
Well-Known Member
You choose to Believe while ALIVE in your Flesh.
You RECEIVE Salvation…AFTER your Flesh is Recorded, Accounted in Gods Books…. That Body Dead.
Now… Tell me.. How a Dead Body… rejects having Salvation it Received?
And? Then What?
Does every individual Have FREEWILL to CHOSE Him?
Of course.
Gods Offering a Gift…. Doesn’t mean you HAVE to Choose Him. Doesn’t mean you have to reach out and take His Gift Offering.
Banks, offer loans to millions of people, does the Offering mean, millions HAVE to reach. Out and take the loan? No.
See the Condition…. IF….you do
… He is with, you with Him forever..
Well what … IF… you don’t?
…He is NOT with you…
…You are NOT with Him…
And if you mortally Die Without Him…
Eternally You are without Him.
OSAS is about Accepting Gods offering of Salvation… and After your death, you receive that gift offering Once and Forever.
Glory to God,
Taken
On that particular part I agree with you, when Jesus said "take up your cross" He meant it literally. One (like Him) must be ready to die for Him if the situation requires so, like Peter who denied Jesus 3 times when he felt his life was in danger. He was not ready at that time, eventually he took up his cross for Jesus and died as His Lord on a Roman cross.
Amen.
@Taken @Luther7 below some clear words of Jesus that NEGATES OSAS NO interpretations necessary.
Do you believe this parable of Jesus or reject his words? the choice is yours.
Parable of the Sower (KJV)
Matthew 13:3–9
“Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
The narrow way (KJV)
Matthew 7:13–14
“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
Not everyone who says “Lord” (KJV)
Matthew 7:21
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
Matthew 7:22–23
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? …
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
The vine and the branches (KJV)
John 15:5–6
“I am the vine, ye are the branches…
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
John 15:10
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”
Endure to the end (KJV)
Matthew 24:13
“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
Many move clear verses I can add but it is for you to search for the truth if you dare.
the Words of Jesus must be taken all together and we should not cherry pick the ones we like that fits our personal beliefs, His words are part of a whole and they must be put together to have the full picture. an analogy would be a puzzle, until you place them on the board you cannot see the full picture.
Do you believe this parable of Jesus or reject his words? the choice is yours.
Parable of the Sower (KJV)
Matthew 13:3–9
“Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
The narrow way (KJV)
Matthew 7:13–14
“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
Not everyone who says “Lord” (KJV)
Matthew 7:21
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
Matthew 7:22–23
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? …
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
The vine and the branches (KJV)
John 15:5–6
“I am the vine, ye are the branches…
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
John 15:10
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”
Endure to the end (KJV)
Matthew 24:13
“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
Many move clear verses I can add but it is for you to search for the truth if you dare.
the Words of Jesus must be taken all together and we should not cherry pick the ones we like that fits our personal beliefs, His words are part of a whole and they must be put together to have the full picture. an analogy would be a puzzle, until you place them on the board you cannot see the full picture.
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