Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

[rebuilder 454]

Eph. 6:13, "the evil day". The bible tells us we won't be surprised at Christ's coming, only the unbelieving world will. Why? Because we know the signs given us in Matt. 24 which parallel the seals quite accurately and no, that doesn't help us calculate any timing. Gathered? no, kept in a safe place while enduring it, yes.

Not even close.
The Bible says you either take the mark or die.
The Bible says that every man, woman, and child, on the planet that are not written in the book, take the mark .
so the only way you're gonna make it through the tribulation period is to take the mark, because there is no such thing as being "kept safe", with a christian, during the 7 yr tribulation period.

The bible says that power is given the antichrist to overcome the saints

The Bible says that the believers over came the Antichrist by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death.
In other words, they all died as martyrs

Clearly clearly postrib doctrine is flat out ridiculous.
It is so poorly thought out, and then when shown what the Bible says, you guys get mad and start the name calling.

 

[Trekson]

Are you now saying the parables are not symbolic ?

Imo, they mostly tell a true story the Christ utilizes to make a point. It would be like the modern day idiom, 'don't count your chickens before they hatch". A wise move that can be used in all kinds of scenarios. When Christ immediately explains how they should be considered it can't be considered veiled symbolism.

 

[Trekson]

Not really. The problem begins, really, when people try to separate the Old Testament from the New.


Tribulation of all kinds in this life knows no time barriers. <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Trekson.

If there wasn't a difference we'd still be under the law.

 

[Trekson]

The rapture verses setting is opposite of when your doctrine places the rapture.
Scripture is against your doctrine.

I would say not. The only eschatology not backed by any scripture is the false pretrib doctrine.

 

[Trekson]

SMH.
We can see that is 100% false.
Things don't even come close to lining up with your model.
No contest

You can't even see the parable of a wedding is the groom gathering His bride.

Wow
Bizarre

LOL, show me where is says that!!

 

[PinSeeker]

If there wasn't a difference we'd still be under the law.

Not necessarily disagreeing, Trekson, but not really sure what you mean here.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Trekson]

Not even close.
The Bible says you either take the mark or die.
The Bible says that every man, woman, and child, on the planet that are not written in the book, take the mark .
so the only way you're gonna make it through the tribulation period is to take the mark, because there is no such thing as being "kept safe", with a christian, during the 7 yr tribulation period.

The bible says that power is given the antichrist to overcome the saints

The Bible says that the believers over came the Antichrist by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death.
In other words, they all died as martyrs

Clearly clearly postrib doctrine is flat out ridiculous.
It is so poorly thought out, and then when shown what the Bible says, you guys get mad and start the name calling.

It's amazing how you make up scriptures, show me some. Noah was kept safe in the midst of the storm, The three Hebrew lads were kept safe in the midst of the fire, Daniel was kept safe in the lions' den. The apostles were kept safe in their boat in the midst of the storm. Paul was kept safe when he was bit by a poisonous snake. I guess it might boil down to how much faith one has. Dying isn't then end, it's the beginning.

 

[Trekson]

Not necessarily disagreeing, Trekson, but not really sure what you mean here.

Grace and peace to you.

The OT and NT are not the same and they do need to be properly divided between the age of law and the age of grace.

 

[PinSeeker]

The OT and NT are not the same and they do need to be properly divided between the age of law and the age of grace.

Absolutely disagree. The first proclamation ~ by God, of course ~ of the Covenant of grace is Genesis 3:15. The mediator of the covenant of works was Adam, and he failed in Genesis 3. From that point on, the God's covenant of grace was in effect, and Jesus is depicted in the form of types and shadows ~ one of the most obvious being the lamb without blemish of Leviticus ~ throughout the Old Testament. Even Jesus said the whole Old Testament was about Him, in John 5:46 and indirectly in Luke 24 to the two men He spoke to after His resurrection on the road to Emmaus. The law, Trekson, was a lesser iteration of the covenant of Grace, along with the covenant of life with Adam and later Noah, and the covenant of a people and a land with Abraham, and the covenant of a king over Israel with David. Jesus is the full iteration of all those lesser covenants. And... since Adam, we have all been saved the same way, by grace through faith, as Paul puts it in Ephesians 2:8. The writer of Hebrews makes that clear in Hebrews 11. So, you see a difference where there is none in substance, my friend.

 

[The Light]

QUOTE

In your model, you have a huge problem with what Jesus said.
He said " such as the world has never seen, and never will see again"
You seem to think the trib part is worse than the wrath, because you have the worst part of the 7 yr trib as before the wrath.

Where do you dream up these non-existent problems?
The great tribulation is on believers.
The wrath of God is on unbelievers.
Simple.

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal.........marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.
The wrath of God begins when the 7th seal is opened.
Simple.

So no, we can see that with Noah and Lot there is no separation whatsoever in those 2 models by Jesus.
Jesus used those 2 examples and they are both judgements.

There are two raptures.

The first rapture will be the Church. It will be like days of Noah. When the great tribulation begins the Church will already be in heaven as the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.

The second rapture will be the Jews, the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth. It will be like the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. So will it be when the Jews are raptured at the 6th seal, destruction will come in the day of vengeance.

The woman, Israel, those that flee to a place of protection will remain on the earth during the wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath. Scriptural fact, not what someone chooses to think.

Both brides will be in heaven at the marriage supper.

Indicating the 7 yr trib is exactly what Jesus

Please produce one single solitary verse that says that there is a 7 year tribulation. This should be no problem, if it is true.

I can show you a bible study where trib and wrath are interchangeable.
So that point is way off.

I can show you where the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal and the wrath of God begins at the 7th seal. That settles the issue.

We have scriptural fact. But you don't want to believe what the scripture says. You want to believe what you THINK.

we know for a fact it is 7 years.
Daniel SAID A WEEK.
Daniel said IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK.

There is a week that will begin when a 7 year covenant with many is made. Is there a 7 year tribulation? No. Is Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood? No.

Things will not heat up until the Church is raptured. The Church has to be raptured before the great tribulation, not before the week begins.

Further, you can not admit that the white horse rider is tge AC "that kicks off" the 7 yr trib.

What are you talking about. Of course the rider on the white horse is AN Antichrist. This is the 7th king, and the beast of the earth.

BUT The rider on the white horse does not kick off the final week. The week kicks off when a covenant with many is made. That does not mean the seals have been opened. The seals will not be opened until the Church is raptured. The Church WILL NOT be raptured before the 7 year period begins. Is Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood. No.

You also deny that the bow in his hand represents covenant.

The false Christ carries a bow because he is Horus..........who is Tammuz. Look on the back of the dollar bill and you will see the eye of Horus. The world awaits their false Messiah.

And cover your tracks by insisting he "confirms" a covenant midway , so you can show a non 7 yr period of his menacing.

Again. The final 7 years begins when a covenant with many is made. Things will begin building up but do not explode until the Church is raptured before the great tribulation. When the Antichrist confirms the covenant with many you will know that he is the Secretary General of the United Nations and will be given the Stephanos crown the sign of the UN.

I showed you several places in history where a treaty was made and ratified "confirmed" almost simultaneously.

Which proves absolutely nothing. Show me a scripture that shows there is a 7 year tribulation. Show me a scripture that says that the covenant with many is made and then immediately confirmed.

They are not there and will not be there because Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood.

Here it is :
Dan 9
And he shall confirm the
covenant with many for one
week: and in the midst of
the week he shall cause the
sacrifice and the oblation to
cease, and for the
overspreading of
abominations he shall make
[it] desolate, even until the
consummation, and that
determined shall be poured
upon the desolate.

Ahem....7 yr trib with the temple descecrated after 3.5 years of the 7 yr trib.

Way way plain and simple.
Impossible to miss

Can a 7 year covenant be made in 2023 and confirmed in 2026?

There absolutely is no 7 year tribulation. There only remains 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel. That 3.5 years will begin when the AOD is set up in the midst of the week. The Church will already be in heaven before the great tribulation.

 

[PinSeeker]

There is... are... no... "raptures." Jesus will come back, the final judgment will occur, and the unsaved will be sent away. The time of tribulation is now, just as Jesus said in John 16:33. There will be, though, a great ramping up of this tribulation near the end as His return approaches, "great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now," as He said in Matthew 24.21. God never says He will remove anyone from tribulation, but rather walk with His people through it, as in Psalm 23.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[The Light]

There is... are... no... "raptures."

Yet.

Jesus will come back, the final judgment will occur, and the unsaved will be sent away.

That's true. It's the when that matters.

The time of tribulation is now, just as Jesus said in John 16:33. There will be, though, a great ramping up of this tribulation near the end as His return approaches, "great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now," as He said in Matthew 24.21

The great tribulation has not begun and will not begin until the Church is raptured.

. God never says He will remove anyone from tribulation, but rather walk with His people through it, as in Psalm 23.

Grace and peace to all.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

You never understand the context of scripture.

Luke 21:32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”.

What Jesus is talking about escaping is the day that heaven and earth pass away and destruction comes "on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth". He's talking about the "sudden destruction" that Paul said unbelievers "shall not escape" when the day of the Lord comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

So, all believers will escape that "sudden destruction" that will come unexpectedly on the entire earth and no unbelievers will.

Jesus was saying to pray to be worthy to escape the day that heaven and earth will pass away unexpectedly. Just like Peter wrote about here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

Nowhere does scripture teach that believers will be taken off of the earth years before Jesus returns. No, we will be taken off of the earth the day He returns. That day when "sudden destruction" by fire will come upon all those who dwell on the face of the earth who are not taken off of the earth.

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

This verse has nothing to do with the rapture. Jesus was talking about being protected from temptation while on the earth, not being taken off of the earth to avoid it. Just like He did here...

John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

Why would you think that Jesus talked about keeping His people from the hour of temptation in the world has anything to do with taken His people out of the world when He specifically prayed for them not to be taken out of the world but instead to be kept/protected from evil while in the world?

 

[PinSeeker]

Yet.


That's true. It's the when that matters.

The great tribulation has not begun and will not begin until the Church is raptured.


Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

It seems you misunderstand the 'escape' in Luke 21:36. You can escape something in the sense of not falling victim to that thing, of being sustained from it.

It seems also that you misunderstand, in the same sense, the 'keeping' that Christ speaks of in Revelation 3:10. We will be kept, again, in the sense of not falling victim to that thing, of being protected from and sustained through it.

Again and again throughout Scripture, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) protects us and delivers us through these things. As David sings in Psalm 18, the Lord is our rock and our fortress and our deliverer, our God, our rock, in whom we take refuge, our shield, and the horn of our salvation, our stronghold. And again, in this tribulation, as David sings in Psalm 23, even though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, we will fear no evil, for He is with us, His rod and staff they comfort us, He prepares a table before us even in the presence of our enemies, and He anoint our heads with oil. So it will be even to Jesus's return.

Grace and peace to you, The Light.

 

[The Light]

It seems you misunderstand the 'escape' in Luke 21:36. You can escape something in the sense of not falling victim to that thing, of being sustained from it.

It seems you misunderstand that we can escape ALL THESE THINGS, and stand before the Son of man. That would be at the throne of God.

It seems also that you misunderstand, in the same sense, the 'keeping' that Christ speaks of in Revelation 3:10. We will be kept, again, in the sense of not falling victim to that thing, of being protected from and sustained through it.

It seems you do not understand that the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That is how we escape the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world. Also note that the next verse He says He is coming.

Revelation 3
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Again and again throughout Scripture, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) protects us and delivers us through these things. As David sings in Psalm 18, the Lord is our rock and our fortress and our deliverer, our God, our rock, in whom we take refuge, our shield, and the horn of our salvation, our stronghold. And again, in this tribulation, as David sings in Psalm 23, even though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, we will fear no evil, for He is with us, His rod and staff they comfort us, He prepares a table before us even in the presence of our enemies, and He anoint our heads with oil. So it will be even to Jesus's return.

Again and again and again we see God remove the righteous before destruction. Noah was in the ark before the flood. Lot was led out of Sodom by angels. He opened the Red Sea for His people to escape the coming destruction. This is what God does. His people are not appointed to wrath.

Grace and peace to you, The Light.

Thank you Pinseeker. May you watch for the Lord as He comes for the Church.

 

[The Light]

You never understand the context of scripture.

Luke 21:32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”.

What Jesus is talking about escaping is the day that heaven and earth pass away and destruction comes "on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth". He's talking about the "sudden destruction" that Paul said unbelievers "shall not escape" when the day of the Lord comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

So, all believers will escape that "sudden destruction" that will come unexpectedly on the entire earth and no unbelievers will.

Jesus was saying to pray to be worthy to escape the day that heaven and earth will pass away unexpectedly. Just like Peter wrote about here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

The reason that you do not understand these things is because you think the 6th seal is the same thing as the 7th trumpet.

Nowhere does scripture teach that believers will be taken off of the earth years before Jesus returns. No, we will be taken off of the earth the day He returns. That day when "sudden destruction" by fire will come upon all those who dwell on the face of the earth who are not taken off of the earth.

There are several verses that say the Lord is coming for His Church and His people. We see the great multitude in heaven at the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God. We are raptured to heaven and are not on the earth during the wrath of God as we are not appointed to wrath.

This verse has nothing to do with the rapture. Jesus was talking about being protected from temptation while on the earth, not being taken off of the earth to avoid it. Just like He did here...

John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

Why would you think that Jesus talked about keeping His people from the hour of temptation in the world has anything to do with taken His people out of the world when He specifically prayed for them not to be taken out of the world but instead to be kept/protected from evil while in the world?

The verse you are quoting is out of context. The plan was for the Apostles to spread the Gospel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The reason that you do not understand these things is because you think the 6th seal is the same thing as the 7th trumpet.

No, I think the 6th seal is right before the 7th trumpet and then the 7th seal is at the same time as the 7th trumpet.

There are several verses that say the Lord is coming for His Church and His people. We see the great multitude in heaven at the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God.

No, we don't see the great multitude in heaven at the marriage supper during the supposed one year wrath of God. That's all in your imagination. The bride/wife is not even ready for the marriage supper until the day Jesus returns (see Revelation 19), so there is no marriage supper in heaven.

We are raptured to heaven and are not on the earth during the wrath of God as we are not appointed to wrath.

I showed you, using scripture (1 Thess 5:2-4, 2 Peter 3:10-12), what we will escape that unbelievers won't escape and it's the wrath that will come on the day Jesus comes as a thief in the night. That wrath will result in the destruction of all unbelievers because it will burn up the earth. As Paul said in relation to unbelievers on that day: "they shall not escape". But, we will escape God's wrath that will occur on the day Christ returns. There's no reason whatsoever for us to be raptured any time before that day.

The verse you are quoting is out of context. The plan was for the Apostles to spread the Gospel.

LOL! This argument is as weak as it gets. That verse (John 17:15) shows that being kept from evil does not require being taken off of the earth. Yet, that is how you interpret Revelation 3:10, as if being kept from temptation and evil requires being taken off of the earth. No, it does not. And, notice that the verse isn't talking about God's wrath. Your argument is that we need to be taken off of the earth to avoid God's wrath, right? So, YOU are the one taking a verse (Revelation 3:10) out of context.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It seems you misunderstand that we can escape ALL THESE THINGS, and stand before the Son of man. That would be at the throne of God.

What are "all these things" that you think we will escape exactly?

Do you understand that we will escape the things that Paul said unbelievers in spiritual darkness "shall not escape"?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where do you dream up these non-existent problems?
The great tribulation is on believers.
The wrath of God is on unbelievers.
Simple.

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal.........marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.
The wrath of God begins when the 7th seal is opened.
Simple.


There are two raptures.

The first rapture will be the Church. It will be like days of Noah. When the great tribulation begins the Church will already be in heaven as the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.

The second rapture will be the Jews, the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth. It will be like the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. So will it be when the Jews are raptured at the 6th seal, destruction will come in the day of vengeance.

The woman, Israel, those that flee to a place of protection will remain on the earth during the wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath. Scriptural fact, not what someone chooses to think.

Both brides will be in heaven at the marriage supper.


Please produce one single solitary verse that says that there is a 7 year tribulation. This should be no problem, if it is true.

I can show you where the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal and the wrath of God begins at the 7th seal. That settles the issue.

We have scriptural fact. But you don't want to believe what the scripture says. You want to believe what you THINK.


There is a week that will begin when a 7 year covenant with many is made. Is there a 7 year tribulation? No. Is Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood? No.

Things will not heat up until the Church is raptured. The Church has to be raptured before the great tribulation, not before the week begins.


What are you talking about. Of course the rider on the white horse is AN Antichrist. This is the 7th king, and the beast of the earth.

BUT The rider on the white horse does not kick off the final week. The week kicks off when a covenant with many is made. That does not mean the seals have been opened. The seals will not be opened until the Church is raptured. The Church WILL NOT be raptured before the 7 year period begins. Is Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood. No.


The false Christ carries a bow because he is Horus..........who is Tammuz. Look on the back of the dollar bill and you will see the eye of Horus. The world awaits their false Messiah.

Again. The final 7 years begins when a covenant with many is made. Things will begin building up but do not explode until the Church is raptured before the great tribulation. When the Antichrist confirms the covenant with many you will know that he is the Secretary General of the United Nations and will be given the Stephanos crown the sign of the UN.

Which proves absolutely nothing. Show me a scripture that shows there is a 7 year tribulation. Show me a scripture that says that the covenant with many is made and then immediately confirmed.

They are not there and will not be there because Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood.


Can a 7 year covenant be made in 2023 and confirmed in 2026?

There absolutely is no 7 year tribulation. There only remains 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel. That 3.5 years will begin when the AOD is set up in the midst of the week. The Church will already be in heaven before the great tribulation.

None of that adds up.
When did the first 3.5 years start ?

Or maybe there is no 7 yr anything ?

If the AC sets up his kingdom( as you seem to imply) in the middle....the middle of what?
3.5 + 3.5 equals 7.

" the middle of the "week" ", is 3.5 yrs.

So all the events before the rapture of the Jews( Rev 14, pre wrath) are what in your doctrine? A few days?

Some preterist interpretation ?
How can the wrath be your "short period interpretation", when the AC is descecrating the temple in the middle of Daniel's 7 years?

Daniel's 7 years is chopped into what timeframe?
Or maybe the 7 years is also reframed into some other number?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where do you dream up these non-existent problems?
The great tribulation is on believers.
The wrath of God is on unbelievers.
Simple.

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal.........marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.
The wrath of God begins when the 7th seal is opened.
Simple.


There are two raptures.

The first rapture will be the Church. It will be like days of Noah. When the great tribulation begins the Church will already be in heaven as the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.

The second rapture will be the Jews, the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth. It will be like the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. So will it be when the Jews are raptured at the 6th seal, destruction will come in the day of vengeance.

The woman, Israel, those that flee to a place of protection will remain on the earth during the wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath. Scriptural fact, not what someone chooses to think.

Both brides will be in heaven at the marriage supper.


Please produce one single solitary verse that says that there is a 7 year tribulation. This should be no problem, if it is true.

I can show you where the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal and the wrath of God begins at the 7th seal. That settles the issue.

We have scriptural fact. But you don't want to believe what the scripture says. You want to believe what you THINK.


There is a week that will begin when a 7 year covenant with many is made. Is there a 7 year tribulation? No. Is Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood? No.

Things will not heat up until the Church is raptured. The Church has to be raptured before the great tribulation, not before the week begins.


What are you talking about. Of course the rider on the white horse is AN Antichrist. This is the 7th king, and the beast of the earth.

BUT The rider on the white horse does not kick off the final week. The week kicks off when a covenant with many is made. That does not mean the seals have been opened. The seals will not be opened until the Church is raptured. The Church WILL NOT be raptured before the 7 year period begins. Is Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood. No.


The false Christ carries a bow because he is Horus..........who is Tammuz. Look on the back of the dollar bill and you will see the eye of Horus. The world awaits their false Messiah.

Again. The final 7 years begins when a covenant with many is made. Things will begin building up but do not explode until the Church is raptured before the great tribulation. When the Antichrist confirms the covenant with many you will know that he is the Secretary General of the United Nations and will be given the Stephanos crown the sign of the UN.

Which proves absolutely nothing. Show me a scripture that shows there is a 7 year tribulation. Show me a scripture that says that the covenant with many is made and then immediately confirmed.

They are not there and will not be there because Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood.


Can a 7 year covenant be made in 2023 and confirmed in 2026?

There absolutely is no 7 year tribulation. There only remains 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel. That 3.5 years will begin when the AOD is set up in the midst of the week. The Church will already be in heaven before the great tribulation.

QUOTE
"BUT The rider on the white horse does not kick off the final week. The week kicks off when a covenant with many is made. That does not mean the seals have been opened. The seals will not be opened until the Church is raptured. The Church WILL NOT be raptured before the 7 year period begins. Is Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood. No."

the flood Is a period of judgement.
The 7 yr trib is represented in the flood, with Noah gathered BEFORE THE FLOOD.
The point you are trying make is nonsense.
There is no separation bracketing of your 3.5 years with Noah or lot.
I do not need Noah in the ark 7 days for any reason.
Rabbit trail big time.
Both TIME FRAMES of Noah, and Lot, DO NOT have any of your separation of 3.5 years.
Both examples, by Jesus, are a gathering, THEN JUDGEMENT.
7 yr period follows the rapture of the bride.