Reason for The Crusades explained

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Matthias

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You’ve acknowledged in conversation with others (post #1898) that you believe and teach “Jesus lied”. You’re fighting against the bodily resurrected Messiah, and that’s a fight that no one can win.

The concealed identity church you attend hasn’t properly taught you.

My advice to you as a retired Christian pastor concerned for your eternal well-being is this: stop your laughing, get away from the concealed identity church, repeat to yourself ”Jesus didn’t lie” until you get the false teaching of the cult out of your mind, put away your sword, and repent.
 
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NayborBear

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“The victory caused the leadership of the Church at Rome to become increasingly inebreiated with power. Tragically, when victory comes at such an excruciating cost, it can rarely be duplicated. The subsequent Crusades, lasting until the beginning of the fourteenth century, illustrated the increasing desperation of the Church, as well as the horrific consequences of attempting to use the sword to convert.“

(Christian Jihad, pp. 121-122)

As the story unfolds we will see Muslims and Christians retaliating against the brutality of the crusaders with deception and brutality of their own. The crusaders will reap what they have sown.
I don't think they were using the sword to "convert" as much as you say. But, rather lesson the pressure on the Great Commission! So that others in the area of the "more comelier" (pacifistic) Parts of the many-memebered body could carry on their "commission!" So to speak!
And a "hats off" and a hearty THANK YOU to those guys in the far distant past.
Meaning? The Christians having been recorded killed and/or slaughtered?
More than likely had it coming!
Because they couldn't LEAD!
They wouldn't FOLLOW!
And they refused to GET OUT OF THE WAY!
(which sounds like a few peoples in here doesn't it? :contemplate:)
What did you think was going to happen to 'em?
And inasmuch as the raping etc etc?
You stated such as "plenary indulgences!"
Because? During Warfare? Things get crazy, and PEOPLE get crazy!
When striving to "describe" a "War Zone" to someone who has never BEEN in a War Zone?
NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE!
When fellow Warriors talk to each other about war time conditions?
NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY! :vgood:
 

Matthias

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“News of the capture of Jerusalem quickly reached Rome. Pope Alexander III called upon Emperor Frederick I, called Barbarossa, to enter into the Crusade. His army numbered in the tens of thousands, and as an aged veteran of the Second Crusade, Frederick was an able warrior. As his forces passed through the Byzantine empire on their way to Jerusalem, Frederick formed an alliance with the Byzantine emperor, Isaac Angelos.“

(Christian Jihad, p. 127)

Now the Muslims were in trouble. Right? Well, not all is what it appears to be in the alliance of Emperor Frederick I and Byzantine Emperor Angelos. Read on.

***

”Yet there was intrigue and deceit in this confederation. Emperor Angelos had entered into a secret agreement with Saladin. He was to stall Frederick, giving Saladin time to garner a strategy to defeat Frederick. Now, even supposed Christian brothers were betraying one another.”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 127-128)

Is it any wonder that the crusaders are going to be defeated?

Returning now to the Crusades,

”Frederick discovered this deceit in a letter from Sibylla, the former Queen of the Christains in Jerusalem. …

Though Frederick would defeat the Turks at Iconium and thwart the conspiracy, he drowned in Armenia shortly thereafter. The crusaders had another leader, however, King Richard I of England, who was remembered as Richard the Lionheart.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 128)

Christian deception foiled but Frederick drowns. Enter arguably the most famous of the crusaders, Richard the Lionheart. What the author’s share with us about him goes beyond what my teachers taught me about him in school.
 

Anchorite

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And a "hats off" and a hearty THANK YOU to those guys in the far distant past.
Meaning? The Christians having been recorded killed and/or slaughtered?
More than likely had it coming!
Because they couldn't LEAD!
They wouldn't FOLLOW!
So you are trying to justify Crusaders killing fellow Christians?

The massacred Christians had it coming?

Sad to see such a disturbed mentality.
 

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Matthias

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I don't think they were using the sword to "convert" as much as you say. But, rather lesson the pressure on the Great Commission! So that others in the area of the "more comelier" (pacifistic) Parts of the many-memebered body could carry on their "commission!" So to speak!
And a "hats off" and a hearty THANK YOU to those guys in the far distant past.
Meaning? The Christians having been recorded killed and/or slaughtered?
More than likely had it coming!
Because they couldn't LEAD!
They wouldn't FOLLOW!
And they refused to GET OUT OF THE WAY!
(which sounds like a few peoples in here doesn't it? :contemplate:)
What did you think was going to happen to 'em?
And inasmuch as the raping etc etc?
You stated such as "plenary indulgences!"
Because? During Warfare? Things get crazy, and PEOPLE get crazy!
When striving to "describe" a "War Zone" to someone who has never BEEN in a War Zone?
NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE!
When fellow Warriors talk to each other about war time conditions?
NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY! :vgood:

I was saving this for later but I’ll go ahead and post it here. It contains some good observations and ends with advice (“Read and study”) that warms the heart and puts a smile on the face of a retired Church History adjunct professor.

To the reader: Knowing that modern evangelicals understand very little about the Middle Ages, the Crusades, and Just War theory, we submit this rudimentary list of books for further study. Sadly, evangelicals are highly myopic; we are so near-sighted that we only understand as much Church history as we have experienced. This is not only tragic, it is dangerous. Muslims not only know these dark eras in our history - they constantly refer to them. When we ignore this period, we do so to our great peril. Read and study.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 233)

@Wrangler thinks these “dark eras” in Christian history are light eras in Christian history and instead of being glad that they are over he is “sad“ that they are over.

Why?

Well, he believes that “Jesus lied.” Start there. That gives me insight about why he has turned most everything upside down and backwards. I hate that for him but he’s entrenched in the teaching of his cult. Cults are notorious for steering their members away from reading and studying anything not written by the cult.

@Armour of God
 
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Matthias

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“Through the winter of 1191 and the spring of 1192, Richard laid siege to Acre, a city whete the Muslims were purported to be hiding the ‘true cross of Christ.’ Finally, in July 1192, the Muslims surrendered and promised to return the True Cross, two hundred thousand gold pieces, and two thousand Christian prisoners, in return for their lives. The only problem was, they did not have any of these.

It was at this juncture, however, that the armies of God once again descended to levels unforseen by the Christian community of history.”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 128-129)

Before I tell you what Richard the Lionheart and his soldiers did, please watch this 2:43 video clip - the Malmedy massacre scene, from the movie The Battle of the Bulge.


Does this outrage you? (If your conscience isn’t seared, it should.)

@Armour of God have you seen this movie? My father took me to see it in 1966. I was around 8 years old at the time. It made quite an impression on me.

Now we’re ready for Richard the Lionheart.
 

Matthias

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“Through the winter of 1191 and the spring of 1192, Richard laid siege to Acre, a city whete the Muslims were purported to be hiding the ‘true cross of Christ.’ Finally, in July 1192, the Muslims surrendered and promised to return the True Cross, two hundred thousand gold pieces, and two thousand Christian prisoners, in return for their lives. The only problem was, they did not have any of these.

It was at this juncture, however, that the armies of God once again descended to levels unforseen by the Christian community of history.”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 128-129)

Resuming now the story (with the memory of the massacre at Malmedy in World War II fresh in our minds) -

“King Richard brought twenty-seven hundred Muslim men outside the city walls, and proceeded to have them slaughtered, one by one. A Muslim historian recorded the horror:

’The king of England, seeing all the delays interposed by the Sultan [Saladin] to the execution of the treaty, acted perfidiously as regards the Muusulinan prisoners. On their yielding the town he engaged to grant their life, adding that if the Sultan carried out the bargain he would give them freedom and [allow] them to carry off their children and wives; if the Sultan did not fulfill his engagements they were to be made slaves. Now the king broke his promises to them and made open display of what he had till now kept hidden in his heart, by carrying out what he had intended to do after he had received the money and the Frank prisoners. It is thus that people of his nation ultimately admitted.

In the afternoon of Tuesday, 27 Rajab [August 20] about four o’clock, he came out on horseback with all the Frankish army, … [King Richard] ordered all the Muslim prisoners, whose martyrdom God had decreed for this day, to be brought before him. They … were all bound with ropes. The Franks then flung themselves upon them all at once and massacred them with sword and lance in cold blood … On the morrow morning our people gathered at the spot and found Muslims stretched out upon the ground as martyrs for the faith. They even recognized some of the dead, and the sight was a great affliction to them. The enemy had only spared the prisoners of noteand such as were strong enough to work.’

Not only did the Christian forces not get to Jerusalem, but they earned the everlasting mistrust of the Muslims, who believed King Richard when he promised to allow them to live. It was becoming difficult to distinguish between Christian and non-Christian forces, as each were reaching new heights in brutality and deceit.”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 129-130)

@Wrangler has said he is sad this ended.

@Armour of God supports the crusaders. Whether or not he is sad that it ended, we don’t know. He’s silent about it.

King Richard didn’t act like a Christian. He acted like the Germans did many centuries later - in fact worse, but let’s not quibble about it - during the massacre at Malmedy.

Are you outraged by what happened at Malmedy but not at what happened at Acre?
 
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Matthias

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When it becomes “difficult to distinguish between Christian and non-Christian” behavior, it‘s not something for Christians to support and celebrate @Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear.

We should have learned this in Sunday School. We should have learned this at church.
 
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Matthias

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Should Christians massacre their enemies? (Asking for Richard the Lionheart.)

AI responds,

“No, the central teaching of Christianity, particularly in the New Testament, is to love your enemies rather than massacre them.

While the Old Testament contains accounts of God-ordained warfare and the destruction of specific groups, modern Christian ethics are primarily rooted in the life and commands of Jesus Christ. …”

I don’t trust AI but it is evident to me that AI has a better grasp of Christian ethics and the teaching of Jesus than do the supporters of the Crusades.

It’s too late for Richard the Lionheart but not for his modern-day supporters.
 
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Matthias

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“The three subsequent Crusades accomplished nothing more than the further blurring of the original purposes for which the Crusades were called and any distinction between Christian and nonbeliever. In the Fourth Crusade (1200-1204), the Roman forces actually attacked Byzantine Christians at Constantinople, rather than engage the Muslim forces.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 130)

@Wrangler and @Armour of God support this. Why?

This is far removed from what Jesus and the apostles taught the disciples to do.
 
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Matthias

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It couldn’t get any worse than that, could it?

“Yet the darkest hour in Christian history could have been 1212, when Rome allowed the launch of the Children’s Crusade.

In a small village near Vendome, France, a twelve-year-old boy named Stephen believed he received a vision. Jesus Christ was calling the children of the Christian empire to launch a Crusade. Surely, he reasoned, if the adult men were incapable of conquest, the children - the pure of heart - could achieve with faith what the men could not do with might. In Cologne, Germany, another young boy named Nicholas had the same inspiration.

Distressingly, Rome did nothing to stop the movement. Thousands of young children and teenagers from northern France and western Germany united, for what can only be called one of the darkest chapters in Christian history. Against the pleadings of their parents, these children set out en masse.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 130)

@Wrangler and @Armour of God want us to believe this is a good thing; something that Jesus Christ himself called for. Don’t believe them. This is pure evil.
 
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Matthias

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This is what you‘re defending @Wrangler and @Armour of God. Don’t look away now.

“The result was horrifying.

As many as fifty thousand were sold into slavery. More died of starvation. Still others were defeated in their vain attempts to fight. One author recorded:

’About the time of Easter and Pentecost ... many thousands of boys, ranging in age from six years to full maturity, left the plows or carts which they were driving, the flocks which they were pasturing, and anything else which they were doing. This they did despite the wishes of their parents, relatives, and friends who sought to make them draw back. Suddenly one ran after another to take the cross. Thus, by groups of twenty, or fifty, or a hundred, they put up banners and began to journey to Jerusalem. They were asked by many people on whose advice or at whose urging they had set upon this path. They were asked especially since only a few years ago many kings, a great many dukes, and innumerable people in powerful companies had gone there and had returned with the business unfinished. The present groups, moreover, were still of tender years and were neither strong enough nor powerful enough to do anything. Everyone, therefore, accounted them foolish and imprudent for trying to do this. They briefly replied that they were equal to the Divine will in this matter and that, whatever God might wish to do with them, they would accept it willingly and with humble spirit. They thus made some little progress on their journey. Some were turned back at Metz, others at Piacenza, and others even at Rome. Still others got to Marseilles, but whether they crossed to the Holy Land or what their end was is uncertain. One thing is sure: that of the many thousands who rose up, only very few returned.’”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 130-131)

This is where your lust for jihad has taken you. This is what your defense of the indefensible produced. Take a good long look at it.

This is what you’re saying Jesus wants his followers to do. It’s just not true.
 
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Matthias

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”The Crusades began with a shout of ‘God wills it!’ and ended with a whimper of defeat. The concept of converting the world by the sword and fighting as an army of Jesus Christ had led to three hundred years of strife and bloodshed. Armies were regularly gathering under the banner of Christianity and confronting the enemy with swords, rather than the gospel. More grievously, these soldiers marched to their death under the assumption that Christ had called them to kill in his Name and the promise that if they died in battle they would be admitted to heaven because of their commitment to this warfare. Christianity had fallen on the sword of jihad.

(Christian Jihad, p. 131)

Bold is mine.

I’m turning in for the night. @Wrangler and @Armour of God want what they want, and there is no talking them out of it. They shall have it.

”I am for peace, but when I speak, they are for war.“

The Messiah’s way leads to life. The crusader’s way leads to death.

Choose life.
 
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Lizbeth

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Right. Your lack of discernment is seen by ignoring other verses presented to avoid having to reconcile the soulful aspects of Scripture, which you contemptuously categorize as carnal, worldly, fleshy.

So desperate are you to show your ignorance, that you try to fit a verse against being a busybody outside the Christian community with supporting evil done to the Christian community to escape the burden OTHER SCRIPTURES put on us to judge and DO JUSTICE.
It is the job of governments to do justice in the sense that you are speaking of, as per Rom 13.....not the church's. God is not pleased with those who don't distinguish/discern/separate between the holy and the profane/common.
 

Wrangler

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It is the job of governments to do justice in the sense that you are speaking of, as per Rom 13.....not the church's.
You are speaking as if there is a separation of church and State AND speaking as if there are different senses of justice. Members of a church are also members of the State.

Scripture does not say leave this sense of justice to government but that it is our burden. Being overly-spiritualized, you allow no practical application for us to fulfill this weightier matter of God's will. Psalm 37:28 God loves justice (no qualified "sense" overly spiritualized hope to escape soulful burdens.)