The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

[Truth7t7]

Have you ever examined the six works of God, in Dan. 9:24, that He gave Jesus to finish?

Seventy weeks [490 years] are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1. to finish the transgression, and
2. to make an end of sins, and
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6. to anoint the most Holy.

Other than Jesus, do you know of any other person or persons who has the authority and ability to "finish the work" that God has "determined" to be completed?
If so, how and by whom will Dan. 9:24 be performed, if the 70th week has been cutoff and pushed out to take place at the end of time, as you and many others say?

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Anchorite]

I never said that the Holy Spirit wasn't a unique personality of the Trinity.
Do not misunderstand me. I DO understand Who the Gift of the Holy Spirit is.
I simply do not agree with visible church- ianity's view and how they have framed Him.

Upon the baptism of Jesus, I understand the Trinity to be God the Father dwelling within God the Son as One, and TOGETHER spiritually they ARE the Holy Spirit.

You are very confused. The Holy Spirit is a distinct person in the Trinity. He is not God the Father and the Son of God combined together spiritually.

At the baptism of Jesus, God the Father uttered His voice and the Holy Spirit came down like a dove. 3 different persons acting in unity of purpose.

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Earburner]

You are very confused. The Holy Spirit is a distinct person in the Trinity. He is not God the Father and the Son of God combined together spiritually.

At the baptism of Jesus, God the Father uttered His voice and the Holy Spirit came down like a dove. 3 different persons acting in unity of purpose.

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You do realize that God the Father never could permanently dwell/live within man, except only temporarily. In other words, all who died, who lived "under the altar" of the OC., never had the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God Himself within them.
Did you forget that God the Father is a Spirit ONLY?
This is what the purpose of "the book of Remembrance" was for. Malachi 3:16-18.
See also Rev. 6:9-11. Maybe His Holy Spirit within you now, will help you to discern the connection.

I never said anything different than what scripture literally says, of which I have posted: "Upon the baptism of Jesus, I understand the Trinity to be God the Father dwelling within God the Son as One, and TOGETHER spiritually they ARE the Holy Spirit within us." Now, by their presence within us, we ALSO are made to be holy!! Does that offend you? If you understand Dan. 9:24, it shouldn't!!

It was a REALITY that had never been before. It was the very First time that the Holy Spirit of God Himself could permanently dwell within the flesh of man! And that He did on the day of God the Son's baptism!! That is really what the Feast of Tabernacles is all about. It wasn't about the Jews, but rather it was for God Himself. No longer would he dwell within man temporarily, but now PERMANENTLY. HALLELUJAH!!

However, in your post, you did share the religious assumption of church- ianity: "At the baptism of Jesus, God the Father uttered His voice and the Holy Spirit came down like a dove. 3 different persons acting in unity of purpose.

The concept of "The Trinity" is a religious understanding of Religion, that was manufactured by "the wisdom of men".
For belief or unbelief in it, has no value whatsoever to save or condemn anyone by it, so says the testimony of the repentant "thief on the cross".
BUT....that "man" did say something very telling about his belief and time period. He said: "Remember me when you come into your kingdom". And that is exactly what happened on that day!
Again, please review Rev. 6:9-11. You just might receive the truthful understanding of what actually happened on the very day of Jesus' crucifixion. Mat. 27:50-54

Please read and study all of 1 Cor. Ch. 2.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Observing the feast of tabernacles will be Without animal sacrifice, no place in Zechariah 14 do you see animal sacrifice, it's your thought adding to scripture, I agree that Jesus is the perfect Lamb of God sacrificed for the world, abolishing animal sacrifice for sin

I'm asking you how exactly you think the feast of tabernacles will be observed in the new heavens and new earth. What is your answer to that question?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

You have an interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 all to yourself. So, you think God revealed the meaning of that prophecy only to you and no one else in the world? I thought you were an amillennialist? But, here you seem to be talking about the Millennium starting in the future in the middle of the 70th week.

What is this covenant that you think this fake Jewish Messiah will make exactly?

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

How exactly do you think the six things listed in this verse will be fulfilled? For example, don't you think that Jesus already made reconciliation for iniquity with His death on the cross?

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm asking you how exactly you think the feast of tabernacles will be observed in the new heavens and new earth. What is your answer to that question?

I'm asking you what it will look like in the new heaven and earth, you don't have an answer because it's a mystery that no man knows, same applies to observance of the feast of tabernacles in the new heaven and earth

 

[Truth7t7]

You have an interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 all to yourself. So, you think God revealed the meaning of that prophecy only to you and no one else in the world? I thought you were an amillennialist? But, here you seem to be talking about the Millennium starting in the future in the middle of the 70th week.

100% false claim and misrepresentation of my written words

A future Millennium is non-existant in scripture, when the future beast is revealed as God on earth this will be pushed as the "False Christ" starting a Millennium on earth that is presently taught by false teachers of this non-existant Millennium

What is this covenant that you think this fake Jewish Messiah will make exactly?

Scripture below strongly suggest that the covenant of peace which he will brake, the "League" negotiated peace with others included

Daniel 11:21-23KJV
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

How exactly do you think the six things listed in this verse will be fulfilled? For example, don't you think that Jesus already made reconciliation for iniquity with His death on the cross?

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Earburner]

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I must say, you are phenomenal in quoting scripture but your ability for math and history is terribly lacking.
Dan. 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that FROM the going forth of the COMMANDMENT [in approx. 450 BC.by the kings Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes- Ezra 6:14] to restore and to build Jerusalem UNTO the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [69 weeks] (69x7=483 years upto the baptisim of Jesus, and His ministry of confirming the NEW Covenant, which was for a period of 3.5 years later, upto His Crucifixion): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

EDIT: Please pay attention to the words: "The going forth of the commandment to restore and to build", is WHEN to begin counting time for the 70 weeks.

Who was Artaxerxes in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Who was Artaxerxes in the Bible? What can we learn from what the Bible says about Artaxerxes?

www.gotquestions.org

After Jesus' resurrection, He then, by His Holy Spirit, continued confirming the NEW Covenant to the early church for an additional 3.5 years, whereby Paul the Apostle (on the road to Damascus) became a witness to.
All of that LITERAL time totals to 490 years, of which IS THE PROPHETIC TIME LINE OF ALL OF THE 70 WEEKS OF Dan. 9:24-27.

 

[Davidpt]

Yes. I mean
Zechariah 14:11
And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

I am looking to find out which Jerusalem is it, that shall be safely inhabited.

It's obvious to me which one it is meaning. It is meaning the new Jerusalem that comes down from God out of heaven. Except it hasn't arrived yet. Maybe spiritually it has in some sense, but not in the sense Revelation 21-22 is meaning, though.

Therefore, in Zechariah 14, verses 6-11, 16-21, are meaning after the NJ comes down from God out of heaven during the 2nd coming. But some of you are trying to make nonsense out the chronology throughout chapter 14 by insisting, for example, verse 8 was fulfilled during Pentecost 2000 years ago. Except that flat out ignores that verse 8 can't even get fulfilled until after this in verse 5 is fulfilled first--and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Then compare that with 1 Thessalonians 3:13 & Jude 1:14, for example.

It is absurd to apply Zechariah 14:5 to something Thessalonians 3:13 & Jude 1:14 is not involving, though it is crystal clear all 3 passages are involving the same events, the 2nd coming.

And I'm not even an Amil, yet I can easily discern which Jerusalem is meant in verse 11. And that verse 11 is not fulfilled until Christ returns first. And that verse 6-11, 16-19 are meaning post His return. And that there is no way everything in verses 6-11, 16-19, are meaning throughout all eternity. Yet they are meaning post His return. Which tells any thinking person that this requires a time period with a beginning and an end post the 2nd coming in order to fulfill these verses I just mentioned.

Some Amils then spew absurd nonsense, that if we make verses 6-11, 16-21 be meaning post the 2nd coming, this indicates literal animal sacrificing resumes. No matter how you look at it, none of these verses, 6-11, 16-19, are meaning before Christ went to the cross. Yet, if we apply these verses to this age this means literal animal sacrificing isn't meant. But if we apply these verses post the 2nd coming this means literal animal sacrificing is meant. Total nonsense. Animal sacrificing is never resuming again, period. How then can it mean literal animal sacrificing resumes if we interpret these verses to be meaning post the 2nd coming based on chronology of events throughout ch 14?

If one disagrees that there is sensible chronology throughout ch 14, is one going to argue, for example, that verse 11 is fulfilled before verse 2 is? That verses 16-19 are fulfilled before verse 2 is? That verse 12 is fulfilled before verse 2 is? So on and so on. Therefore, it makes zero sense to argue that chronology is irrelevant in ch 14, then argue that verses 11-12, nor verses 16-19, can be meaning before verse 2 is fulfilled first. Why is that chronology relevant all of a sudden but elsewhere it isn't? If that's not a perfect example of cherry picking, then what is?

It doesn't matter in what sense these things get fulfilled. What matters is, for example, verses 11-12, 16-19, can't get fulfilled, in any sense, until verse 2 is fulfilled first.

BTW, even if one applied Zechariah 14:11 to the here and now involving the church, it still doesn't agree with verse 11. The church must face the 42 month reign of the beast and great tribulation. No way does that equal safely inhabited, in any sense. Not to mention, verse 11 says---from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. How can there be a south of the NT church? Clearly, the literal middle east region is meant. Which means that is where the NJ comes down to. It has to come down somewhere on the earth, does it not?

 

[Earburner]

100% false claim and misrepresentation of my written words

A future Millennium is non-existant in scripture, when the future beast is revealed as God on earth this will be pushed as the "False Christ" starting a Millennium on earth that is presently taught by false teachers of this non-existant Millennium

Scripture below strongly suggest that the covenant of peace which he will brake, the "League" negotiated peace with others included

Daniel 11:21-23KJV
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:21-23 KJV is about king Antiochus 4 Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire of Macedonia, which was one of the four kingdoms that were divided up, thus becoming an extension of the Grecian Empire, after the death ofAlexander the Great.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You can read the full account of that history by the Jews in 1&2 Maccabees.

Again, you are seeking to have the prophecy of the "70 weeks" fulfilled by the wrong "he", and therefore you cannot help but to fabricate lies and make up fictitious stories.

 

[Earburner]

It's obvious to me which one it is meaning. It is meaning the new Jerusalem that comes down from God out of heaven. Except it hasn't arrived yet. Maybe spiritually it has in some sense, but not in the sense Revelation 21-22 is meaning, though.

Therefore, in Zechariah 14, verses 6-11, 16-21, are meaning after the NJ comes down from God out of heaven during the 2nd coming. But some of you are trying to make nonsense out the chronology throughout chapter 14 by insisting, for example, verse 8 was fulfilled during Pentecost 2000 years ago. Except that flat out ignores that verse 8 can't even get fulfilled until after this in verse 5 is fulfilled first--and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Then compare that with 1 Thessalonians 3:13 & Jude 1:14, for example.

It is absurd to apply Zechariah 14:5 to something Thessalonians 3:13 & Jude 1:14 is not involving, though it is crystal clear all 3 passages are involving the same events, the 2nd coming.

And I'm not even an Amil, yet I can easily discern which Jerusalem is meant in verse 11. And that verse 11 is not fulfilled until Christ returns first. And that verse 6-11, 16-19 are meaning post His return. And that there is no way everything in verses 6-11, 16-19, are meaning throughout all eternity. Yet they are meaning post His return. Which tells any thinking person that this requires a time period with a beginning and an end post the 2nd coming in order to fulfill these verses I just mentioned.

Some Amils then spew absurd nonsense, that if we make verses 6-11, 16-21 be meaning post the 2nd coming, this indicates literal animal sacrificing resumes. No matter how you look at it, none of these verses, 6-11, 16-19, are meaning before Christ went to the cross. Yet, if we apply these verses to this age this means literal animal sacrificing isn't meant. But if we apply these verses post the 2nd coming this means literal animal sacrificing is meant. Total nonsense. Animal sacrificing is never resuming again, period. How then can it mean literal animal sacrificing resumes if we interpret these verses to be meaning post the 2nd coming based on chronology of events throughout ch 14?

If one disagrees that there is sensible chronology throughout ch 14, is one going to argue, for example, that verse 11 is fulfilled before verse 2 is? That verses 16-19 are fulfilled before verse 2 is? That verse 12 is fulfilled before verse 2 is? So on and so on. Therefore, it makes zero sense to argue that chronology is irrelevant in ch 14, then argue that verses 11-12, nor verses 16-19, can be meaning before verse 2 is fulfilled first. Why is that chronology relevant all of a sudden but elsewhere it isn't? If that's not a perfect example of cherry picking, then what is?

It doesn't matter in what sense these things get fulfilled. What matters is, for example, verses 11-12, 16-19, can't get fulfilled, in any sense, until verse 2 is fulfilled first.

BTW, even if one applied Zechariah 14:11 to the here and now involving the church, it still doesn't agree with verse 11. The church must face the 42 month reign of the beast and great tribulation. No way does that equal safely inhabited, in any sense. Not to mention, verse 11 says---from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. How can there be a south of the NT church? Clearly, the literal middle east region is meant. Which means that is where the NJ comes down to. It has to come down somewhere on the earth, does it not?

Concerning the three manifestations of Jesus, NO ONE is understanding that NONE OF THE PROPHETS were allowed to write the words that God spoke through them to be CHRONOLOGICAL in order!!!

 

[Davidpt]

It can't be talking about earthly Jerusalem because earthly Jerusalem will be burned up along with the rest of the earth when Jesus comes as a thief in the night (2 Peter 3:10-12). So, it would have to be talking about the heavenly Jerusalem instead. Only the heavenly Jerusalem will never be destroyed.

But it has to come down from God out of heaven first, which clearly hasn't happened yet. Which then means, verses 6-10, which are undeniably meaning when verse 11 is meaning, can't even get fulfilled unto the NJ comes down from heaven first. Yet some of you would have us believe absurd nonsense that verse 8 was already fulfilled 2000 years ago in spite of that verse 11 is yet to be fulfilled. It is absurd to divorce verse 8 from verse 11. It is when Jerusalem is safely inhabited that verse 8 is meaning.

I don't know where some of you got your teachings of Zechariah 14 from? But man they were some confused teachers if they insist verse 8 was fulfilled 2000 years ago, when verse 8 is meaning during verse 11, but that verse 11 is yet to be fulfilled.

Why can't you figure out of any of these things on your own? Why should I have to tell you that verse 8 can't be meaning 2000 years ago when it is meaning during verse 11, but that verse 11 hasn't been fulfilled yet? It obviously defies common sense, that if verse 8 is meaning during verse 11, but that verse 11 is future still, that this means verse 8 was fulfilled 2000 years ago.

Nor can you logically apply verse 11 to the here and now in any sense, since the church has to face the 42 month reign of the beast and great tribulation. Where neither equal what verse 11 records, that being a Jerusalem that is safely inhabited. As if being persecuted, and in some cases martyred, equals being safely inhabited. No reasonable person would insist being persecuted, and in some cases martyred, equals safely inhabited. Therefore, there is nothing per the past 2000 years that explain verse 11. Which means verse 11 is future still. Which means verses 6-10 are also future still, since they are undeniably meaning when verse 11 is meaning. And I haven't even brought up that verses 16-19 have to fit somewhere as well. Obviously, during when verses 6-11 is meaning.

You of course argue that Scripture interprets Scripture, then have disputes with Scripture doing exactly that. Clearly, this in Revelation 11:15---The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever--is the interpretation of this in Zechariah 14:9--And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.. Where it is then plainly obvious that Revelation 11:15 is meaning after 2 Thessalonians 2:4 has been fulfilled, which then makes sense of Zechariah 14:9, because now all that remains is just 1 Lord, not two lords. IOW, Zechariah 14:9 cannot be true until 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is no longer true. Because, while 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is still true does not equal there shall be one LORD, and his name one

Are you going to argue that the one meant in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is not trying to make itself the lord over anyone? Yet, Zechariah 14:9 records, that when it is meaning, there shall be one LORD, and his name one. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 clearly contradicts that if Zechariah 14:9 is meaning when 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is meaning.

 

[Davidpt]

Concerning the three manifestations of Jesus, NO ONE is understanding that NONE OF THE PROPHETS were allowed to write the words of God spoken through them CHRONOLOGICALLY!!!

1st coming and 2nd coming equal 2 manifestations. What then is this 3rd manifestation that you are referring to?

 

[Earburner]

But it has to come down from God out of heaven first, which clearly hasn't happened yet. Which then means, verses 6-10, which are undeniably meaning when verse 11 is meaning, can't even get fulfilled unto the NJ comes down from heaven first. Yet some of you would have us believe absurd nonsense that verse 8 was already fulfilled 2000 years ago in spite of that verse 11 is yet to be fulfilled. It is absurd to divorce verse 8 from verse 11. It is when Jerusalem is safely inhabited that verse 8 is meaning.

I don't know where some of you got your teachings of Zechariah 14 from? But man they were some confused teachers if they insist verse 8 was fulfilled 2000 years ago, when verse 8 is meaning during verse 11, but that verse 11 is yet to be fulfilled.

Why can't you figure out of any of these things on your own? Why should I have to tell you that verse 8 can't be meaning 2000 years ago when it is meaning during verse 11, but that verse 11 hasn't been fulfilled yet? It obviously defies common sense, that if verse 8 is meaning during verse 11, but that verse 11 is future still, that this means verse 8 was fulfilled 2000 years ago.

Nor can you logically apply verse 11 to the here and now in any sense, since the church has to face the 42 month reign of the beast and great tribulation. Where neither equal what verse 11 records, that being a Jerusalem that is safely inhabited. As if being persecuted, and in some cases martyred, equals being safely inhabited. No reasonable person would insist being persecuted, and in some cases martyred, equals safely inhabited. Therefore, there is nothing per the past 2000 years that explain verse 11. Which means verse 11 is future still. Which means verses 6-10 are also future still, since they are undeniably meaning when verse 11 is meaning. And I haven't even brought up that verses 16-19 have to fit somewhere as well. Obviously, during when verses 6-11 is meaning.

You of course argue that Scripture interprets Scripture, then have disputes with Scripture doing exactly that. Clearly, this in Revelation 11:15---The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever--is the interpretation of this in Zechariah 14:9--And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.. Where it is then plainly obvious that Revelation 11:15 is meaning after 2 Thessalonians 2:4 has been fulfilled, which then makes sense of Zechariah 14:9, because now all that remains is just 1 Lord, not two lords. IOW, Zechariah 14:9 cannot be true until 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is no longer true. Because, while 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is still true does not equal there shall be one LORD, and his name one

Are you going to argue that the one meant in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is not trying to make itself the lord over anyone? Yet, Zechariah 14:9 records, that when it is meaning, there shall be one LORD, and his name one. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 clearly contradicts that if Zechariah 14:9 is meaning when 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is meaning.

You don't listen very well!
Concerning the three manifestations of Jesus, NO ONE is understanding that NONE OF THE PROPHETS were allowed to write the words that God spoke through them to be CHRONOLOGICAL in order!!!

 

[Davy]

Unfortunately, in the KJV Dan. 9:26-27, you have chosen the wrong "he" for verse 27. Therefore you have attributed all of your interpretation towards "the prince of the people that shall come" in verse 26 and not the Messiah, who was cutoff (crucified) in the midst of the 70th week. There is no justification whatsoever to push the 70th week out into the far future!!

Nope, that's just a ploy Christ's enemies have used to fool brethren like you. That because 'any' Christian who believes on Jesus Christ should know by The Holy Spirit that Lord Jesus would NEVER place an IDOL inside a temple in Jerusalem for false worship. That should... be your basis, and then make you want to actually figure out what the Daniel 9 prophecy truly says, and I use the KJV.

Dan 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

"Messiah" in the RED above only is about Lord Jesus Christ.

In verse 27, the "he" MUST pick up the subject of "the prince that shall come" (that destroyed the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (2nd temple). That was the Roman general Titus and his Roman army in 70 A.D.)

Per Daniel 11:21-45, that is the "vile person" that shall come who ends sacrifices in Jerusalem and instead places the "abomination of desolation" idol in false worship. Simple. It's the "little horn" of Dan.8:9-14. That is NOT Jesus.

 

[Davy]

I am saying such things because God the Father spoke through Zechariah about ALL Three of the manifestations of Christ:
1. in His mortal flesh,
2. in His Holy Spirit, and
3. in His Immortal Glory.

Do you believe in Voodoo magic? Lot of that goes on in the South, in places like New Orleans and South Carolina?

 

[Earburner]

1st coming and 2nd coming equal 2 manifestations. What then is this 3rd manifestation that you are referring to?

The 2nd manifestation of Jesus, is through His Holy Spirit ministry to us through the Holy Spirit. John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.

The (blind) wisdom of men through visible church- ianity have altogether NEGLECTED to understand or teach the most wonderful fact of all from God's perspective. Which is since Pentecost, for the FIRST time God the Father COULD NOW PERMANENTLY dwell/ live within man THROUGH His Son Jesus.

For those of us who ARE born again of His Holy Spirit, we are NOW living in the reality of The Feast of Tabernacles aka (booths-temporary shelter). NO! Not for us or for the Jews to do, but rather for God the Father Himself to do, which is what He worked for and "longsuffered" over for thousands of years, ever since the situation of man's fall into sin, in The Garden. See 2 Peter 3:9

 

[Earburner]

Nope, that's just a ploy Christ's enemies have used to fool brethren like you. That because 'any' Christian who believes on Jesus Christ should know by The Holy Spirit that Lord Jesus would NEVER place an IDOL inside a temple in Jerusalem for false worship. That should... be your basis, and then make you want to actually figure out what the Daniel 9 prophecy truly says, and I use the KJV.

Dan 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

"Messiah" in the RED above only is about Lord Jesus Christ.

In verse 27, the "he" MUST pick up the subject of "the prince that shall come" (that destroyed the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (2nd temple). That was the Roman general Titus and his Roman army in 70 A.D.)

Per Daniel 11:21-45, that is the "vile person" that shall come who ends sacrifices in Jerusalem and instead places the "abomination of desolation" idol in false worship. Simple. It's the "little horn" of Dan.8:9-14. That is NOT Jesus.

It is apparent to me that you have no idea of how it is that I am NOT speaking through the mind of my flesh, but rather through the Mind of Christ within me.
1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

Daniel 11:21-23 KJV is about king Antiochus 4 Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire of Macedonia, which was one of the four kingdoms that were divided up, thus becoming an extension of the Grecian Empire, after the death ofAlexander the Great.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You can read the full account of that history by the Jews in 1&2 Maccabees.

Again, you are seeking to have the prophecy of the "70 weeks" fulfilled by the wrong "he", and therefore you cannot help but to fabricate lies and make up fictitious stories.

I Disagree, the events are future unfulfilled

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm asking you what it will look like in the new heaven and earth, you don't have an answer because it's a mystery that no man knows, same applies to observance of the feast of tabernacles in the new heaven and earth

So, you're basically saying that we should just assume that the feast of tabernacles will be observed in some unknowable way in the new heavens and new earth. And you think this is supposed to be a convincing explanation for what Zechariah 14:16-21 is about?