The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

[Spiritual Israelite]

why does any of that have to be connected with Zechariah 14:8 when verse 8 is meaning during verse 11 and that verse 11 contradicts verse 2 not agrees with it?

Tell me what scripture Jesus was referencing in John 7:38, if not Zechariah 14:8?

John 7:37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Notice that Jesus said that on the last day of the feast of tabernacles. Zechariah 14 not only references living waters, but also the feast of tabernacles. If He was not referencing Zechariah 14:8, then I don't now what scripture He could have been referencing. He obviously didn't quote any scripture word for word since there are no OT scriptures which say that he who believe in Jesus "out of his heart will flow rivers of living water", but I believe He quite possibly was paraphrasing Zechariah 14:8 there.

 

[Earburner]

I see a connection between Zechariah 14:8 and John 7:38-39, also. I think it would be worth investigating and discussing what Old Testament scripture exactly was Jesus referencing in John 7:38? I believe it very well could have been Zechariah 14:8. There are no scriptures which contain the exact words "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" in relation to those who believe in Jesus, so I think it's quite possible that Jesus was paraphrasing Zechariah 14:8 there or possibly a combination of OT verses including Zechariah 14:8.

John 7:37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Jesus said this during the feast of tabernacles and the feast of tabernacles is referenced in Zechariah 14, so that makes me think even more that He likely had Zechariah 14:8 in mind there.

Amen! I agree 100%. As we both know, there is so much more in the book of Zechariah that has already been fulfilled by Jesus, that the literalists of church-ianity wouldn't be able to keep up. Zech. 2:4-5, 3:8 just for starters.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amen! I agree 100%. As we both know, there is so much more in the book of Zechariah that has already been fulfilled by Jesus, that the literalists of church-ianity wouldn't be able to keep up. Zech. 2:4-5, 3:8 just for starters.

Jesus quoted Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:7 in relation to His first coming as well. And even Premils understand that Zechariah 9:9 relates to His first coming.

 

[Davidpt]

Revelation 19 can't be revelation 20 because revelation 20 has people consumed by fire and revelation 19 has the bodies being eaten by birds

I'll have to think some more in regard to your other points. I can't really address those at this point. Yet I will try and address this point, though.

"Revelation 19 can't be revelation 20 because revelation 20 has people consumed by fire and revelation 19 has the bodies being eaten by birds"

That's a great point and should work for me as well. That Revelation 19 depicts becoming bird food, and Revelation 20 depicts being devoured by fire which could basically turn someone into literal ashes. Therefore, using imagery of feasting birds makes zero sense, since feasting birds wouldn't be feasting on ashes. It doesn't matter if the feasting birds is literal or not. You don't use imagery of feasting birds to convey someone that is devoured by fire and then turned into a pile of ashes. Thanks for bringing that point up. That was an insightful observation on your part.

Speaking of birds, let's kill 2 birds with one stone, so to speak. If during Revelation 19 the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames, as @Spiritual Israelite tends to believe, well you don't use imagery of feasting birds to convey that. There would not be any feasting birds to feast on anyone. The smoke and intense heat alone would have them dropping out of the skies left and right. And once again, it doesn't matter if the feasting birds is literal or not. You don't use imagery like that to convey that the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames since it paints a nonsensical absurdity per that scenario.

 

[Earburner]

Jesus quoted Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:7 in relation to His first coming as well. And even Premils understand that Zechariah 9:9 relates to His first coming.

Exactly! For them to perceive something as telling as Zech. 9:9, informs me that if Premils don't come to terms with the truth of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24-27, as Amillennialists basically understand it, apart from the Holy Spirit's internal Guidance, they will continue to be blinded by their false doctrine, as if in a fog, until the Lord returns from Heaven in all His Glory.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 19 can't be revelation 20 because revelation 20 has people consumed by fire and revelation 19 has the bodies being eaten by birds

I disagree. That is an argument I've only ever seen from Premills before. Revelation 19 is full of symbolism. It's not talking about birds literally eating dead bodies, just as it's not talking about Jesus slaying people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth or literally treading people in a literal winepress. The destruction that will occur when Jesus returns is described symbolically in Revelation 19:11-21 and literally in Revelation 20:9 (it will be by fire - 2 Peter 3:10-12, 2 Thess 1:7-10).

 

[amigo de christo]

I didn't read a word of this after your second paragraph. Once I saw that you once again are relying on your replacement for the Holy Spirit, I lost interest in your post.

Spot on right my friend . chatbot AI patterns itself after the writer as well .
They can keep all that stuff . The Sheep have the Spirit and we can read the bible just fine for ourselves .

 

[Davidpt]

I didn't read a word of this after your second paragraph. Once I saw that you once again are relying on your replacement for the Holy Spirit, I lost interest in your post.

I didn't rely on anyone. I simply used an an AI after the fact to validate or debunk my reasoning. And you would have known that had you read the rest of my post unless you have reading comprehension or something.

So, LOL then, you make zero sense a lot of the time. Scenario--there are 10 people all coming to 10 different conclusions about what a certain text means. They all insist they arrived at their conclusions via the Holy Spirit. Not one of them chatted with an AI first. Assuming someone is correct, well all 10 can't be correct. Therefore, which 9 of them are lying about having relied on the Holy Spirit in order to arrive at the conclusions they do? Who did they replace the Holy Spirit with per this scenario since it couldn't have been an AI?

And how can we know without a doubt which 9 are lying? Let me take a wild guess. If you are among the 10, well it can't be you, therefore, it has to be these other 9. The fact you are perfect, your theology is perfect and there is not a hole anywhere in your theology, period. Because you are infallible which makes your theology infallible as well. Who cares about sound hermeneutics when one can just use the ' the Holy Spirit led me to those conclusions' argument. Therefore, I can't be wrong since the Holy Spirit can't be wrong. At least you got part of it right--the Holy Spirit can't be wrong. But that only counts if it is indeed the Holy Spirit helping you arrive at what you end up concluding. And that presents a major problem if 10 different people are claiming the same thing but are arriving at 10 different conclusions among all 10 of them.

 

[Marty fox]

I disagree. That is an argument I've only ever seen from Premills before. Revelation 19 is full of symbolism. It's not talking about birds literally eating dead bodies, just as it's not talking about Jesus slaying people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth or literally treading people in a literal winepress. The destruction that will occur when Jesus returns is described symbolically in Revelation 19:11-21 and literally in Revelation 20:9 (it will be by fire - 2 Peter 3:10-12, 2 Thess 1:7-10).

I totally agree with you its not literal, my point was if literal (as many premils believe) which i should of specified, I believe it actually is symbolic which I have posted many times, but I was addressing a premils post. See post #250.

 

[Marty fox]

I'll have to think some more in regard to your other points. I can't really address those at this point. Yet I will try and address this point, though.

"Revelation 19 can't be revelation 20 because revelation 20 has people consumed by fire and revelation 19 has the bodies being eaten by birds"

That's a great point and should work for me as well. That Revelation 19 depicts becoming bird food, and Revelation 20 depicts being devoured by fire which could basically turn someone into literal ashes. Therefore, using imagery of feasting birds makes zero sense, since feasting birds wouldn't be feasting on ashes. It doesn't matter if the feasting birds is literal or not. You don't use imagery of feasting birds to convey someone that is devoured by fire and then turned into a pile of ashes. Thanks for bringing that point up. That was an insightful observation on your part.

Speaking of birds, let's kill 2 birds with one stone, so to speak. If during Revelation 19 the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames, as @Spiritual Israelite tends to believe, well you don't use imagery of feasting birds to convey that. There would not be any feasting birds to feast on anyone. The smoke and intense heat alone would have them dropping out of the skies left and right. And once again, it doesn't matter if the feasting birds is literal or not. You don't use imagery like that to convey that the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames since it paints a nonsensical absurdity per that scenario.

You’re welcome and I don’t believe that the birds are literal but symbolic of the curse of death as humans are supposed to eat birds not the other way around

 

[Davidpt]

Tell me what scripture Jesus was referencing in John 7:38, if not Zechariah 14:8?

John 7:37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Notice that Jesus said that on the last day of the feast of tabernacles. Zechariah 14 not only references living waters, but also the feast of tabernacles. If He was not referencing Zechariah 14:8, then I don't now what scripture He could have been referencing. He obviously didn't quote any scripture word for word since there are no OT scriptures which say that he who believe in Jesus "out of his heart will flow rivers of living water", but I believe He quite possibly was paraphrasing Zechariah 14:8 there.

We should be looking in Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22 for answers in regard to Zechariah 14:8, not in John 7 instead. Per John 7:37-38 there are better places to look than Zechariah 14:8. Such as Isaiah 55 maybe. In Zechariah 14:8 where does it even hint about anyone believing on someone in that verse? Isn't John 7:38 basically saying this---as the scripture hath said, He that believeth on me, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water?You seem to maybe want to divorce this part---He that believeth on me--from this part---as the scripture hath said--and only having this part being what Jesus is actually quoting from Scripture---out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The reason I say that, there is nowhere in all of Zechariah 14:8 that alludes to this part---He that believeth on me. So why are you insisting Jesus is quoting Zechariah 14:8?

Think about it though I seriously doubt you will. The earth is being destroyed per the trumpet and vile judgments. Bodies of water are literally being affected. Obviously, those bodies of water will need to be healed. And it's not like Ezekiel 47 has zero to do with any waters healing any bodies of water.

Ezekiel 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

Explain why living waters(plural) as opposed to living water(John 7:38), would not equal waters that can literally heal waters? Isn't that exactly what verse 8 says?

Ezekiel 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

On a side note---pretty odd isn't it, that this is meaning during the NHNE?

We can know the NHNE are meant in verse 11 simply by comparing verse 12 with Revelation 22:1-2.

Ezekiel 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.


And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed---interpretation--- and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life(Revelation 22:2)


it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.----interpretation--And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb---which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations(Revelation 22:1-2)

If you disagree, perhaps you don't grasp what is meant in Ezekiel 47 by this---whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed? It obviously doesn't mean it's not consumed because no one eats of it. Therefore, it obviously means it shall not be consumed because there is a never ending supply of it. Can't fit something never ending into an age that is finite. Therefore, Ezekiel 47:12 demands that the era of time meant is an age that has no end. And we both know what age that has to logically be referring to.

Apparently, you must believe the Bible is full of coincidences. That it is merely a coincidence that Zechariah 14:8 appears to be connected with Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22, and not that it actually is.

 

[Truth7t7]

The LORD left Bible Scripture like the following for those like myself who can easily understand that the wicked are NOT destroyed on the day of Christ's future return, which means NOT new heavens and new earth time yet.

Your Claim Above Is 100٪ "False"!

"All" The Unsaved Wicked Will Be "Destroyed" By "Fire" When The Lord Is Revealed In His Future "Second Coming"

"Destroyed Them All" Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Earburner]

We should be looking in Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22 for answers in regard to Zechariah 14:8, not in John 7 instead. Per John 7:37-38 there are better places to look than Zechariah 14:8. Such as Isaiah 55 maybe. In Zechariah 14:8 where does it even hint about anyone believing on someone in that verse? Isn't John 7:38 basically saying this---as the scripture hath said, He that believeth on me, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water?You seem to maybe want to divorce this part---He that believeth on me--from this part---as the scripture hath said--and only having this part being what Jesus is actually quoting from Scripture---out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The reason I say that, there is nowhere in all of Zechariah 14:8 that alludes to this part---He that believeth on me. So why are you insisting Jesus is quoting Zechariah 14:8?

Think about it though I seriously doubt you will. The earth is being destroyed per the trumpet and vile judgments. Bodies of water are literally being affected. Obviously, those bodies of water will need to be healed. And it's not like Ezekiel 47 has zero to do with any waters healing any bodies of water.

Ezekiel 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

Explain why living waters(plural) as opposed to living water(John 7:38), would not equal waters that can literally heal waters? Isn't that exactly what verse 8 says?

Ezekiel 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

On a side note---pretty odd isn't it, that this is meaning during the NHNE?

We can know the NHNE are meant in verse 11 simply by comparing verse 12 with Revelation 22:1-2.

Ezekiel 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.


And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed---interpretation--- and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life(Revelation 22:2)


it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.----interpretation--And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb---which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations(Revelation 22:1-2)

If you disagree, perhaps you don't grasp what is meant in Ezekiel 47 by this---whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed? It obviously doesn't mean it's not consumed because no one eats of it. Therefore, it obviously means it shall not be consumed because there is a never ending supply of it. Can't fit something never ending into an age that is finite. Therefore, Ezekiel 47:12 demands that the era of time meant is an age that has no end. And we both know what age that has to logically be referring to.

Apparently, you must believe the Bible is full of coincidences. That it is merely a coincidence that Zechariah 14:8 appears to be connected with Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22, and not that it actually is.

Your literal way of interpreting the Bible for biblical literacy, is literally taking you for a ride!!

From point of origin to a specific destination, there is this common understanding for reading "land maps": If you are one degree off at the START, you will be miles away from your goal at the END.

 

[Davy]

Your Claim Above Is 100٪ "False"!

"All" The Unsaved Wicked Will Be "Destroyed" By "Fire" When The Lord Is Revealed In His Future "Second Coming"

"Destroyed Them All" Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

Didn't I say brethren, that to believe man's false theory of Amillennialism, one must omit much Bible Scripture? Here is something the poster omits...

Zech 14:16-20
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

No mistaking that is about the time AFTER... Christ's future return, and those leftovers represent the wicked unsaved that will come up against Israel on the last day of this present world. Yet there they are, after Christ's future return, and are commanded to come up to Jerusalem from year to year (during the "thousand years" of Rev.20) and worship The KING Jesus Christ, AND... keep the Feast of Tabernacles!

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
KJV

Do you recall Jesus telling His elect in John 14 that He goes to prepare a place for them, that in His Father's house are many mansions (abodes)? That above gives us that timing being for after... Christ's 2nd coming beyond all doubt.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We should be looking in Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22 for answers in regard to Zechariah 14:8, not in John 7 instead.

LOL. I am done with you. Instead of taking an honest look at ALL of scripture, you have decided that there are only cherry picked scriptures that we can take into consideration. It is a colossal waste of time dealing with your biased nonsense. I'm not going to do it anymore.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I totally agree with you its not literal, my point was if literal (as many premils believe) which i should of specified, I believe it actually is symbolic which I have posted many times, but I was addressing a premils post. See post #250.

Okay, so you were just showing how Premils see Revelation 19 and 20 and forgot to specify that. Gotcha. I was confused at to how any Amil could see it that way.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I didn't rely on anyone. I simply used an an AI after the fact to validate or debunk my reasoning. And you would have known that had you read the rest of my post unless you have reading comprehension or something.

So, LOL then, you make zero sense a lot of the time. Scenario--there are 10 people all coming to 10 different conclusions about what a certain text means. They all insist they arrived at their conclusions via the Holy Spirit. Not one of them chatted with an AI first. Assuming someone is correct, well all 10 can't be correct. Therefore, which 9 of them are lying about having relied on the Holy Spirit in order to arrive at the conclusions they do? Who did they replace the Holy Spirit with per this scenario since it couldn't have been an AI?

And how can we know without a doubt which 9 are lying? Let me take a wild guess. If you are among the 10, well it can't be you, therefore, it has to be these other 9. The fact you are perfect, your theology is perfect and there is not a hole anywhere in your theology, period. Because you are infallible which makes your theology infallible as well. Who cares about sound hermeneutics when one can just use the ' the Holy Spirit led me to those conclusions' argument. Therefore, I can't be wrong since the Holy Spirit can't be wrong. At least you got part of it right--the Holy Spirit can't be wrong. But that only counts if it is indeed the Holy Spirit helping you arrive at what you end up concluding. And that presents a major problem if 10 different people are claiming the same thing but are arriving at 10 different conclusions among all 10 of them.

Translation: You don't think it's possible that the Holy Spirit can help you understand scripture. Which I already knew because of your reliance on AI and supposed "common sense", etc. What a joke.

 

[amigo de christo]

I disagree. That is an argument I've only ever seen from Premills before. Revelation 19 is full of symbolism. It's not talking about birds literally eating dead bodies, just as it's not talking about Jesus slaying people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth or literally treading people in a literal winepress. The destruction that will occur when Jesus returns is described symbolically in Revelation 19:11-21 and literally in Revelation 20:9 (it will be by fire - 2 Peter 3:10-12, 2 Thess 1:7-10).

you do realize why folks run to chat , run to google , run to AI .
cause lets face it , THEY have not truly read and learned the BIBLE .
Just like those who run to their pastors cheat notes every time .
People DO NOT KNOW the scriptures my friend . AND what scriptures they do know
YOU CAN BET have been twisted to fit WHO and what SO EVER THEY SAT UNDER .
As for me , THE SPIRIT IS ALL I NEED and the HOLY BOOK called the bible is all i need to read . let the haters hate .
This sheep has JESUS and shall expose the works of darkness no matter how often i get called
judgmental , a hater , one who knows not GOD or LOVE . though THEY are the ones who KNOW NOT GOD OR LOVE .
And how do i know for a fact they do not know GOD or HIS LOVE .
READY , steady ..................THEY ALLOW SIN to remain UPON THIS PEOPLE .
And now a word .
YE SHALL NOT HATE your neighbor in your heart , YOU SHALL correct HIM and not allow SIN upon him .
THEIR MOTTO IS , YE SHALL NOT HATE your neighbor in your heart , DONT SAY A WORD , JUST HUG and APPROVE OF THEM
and MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD . And to those wh oDO bring the words of GOD
they say to them , AWAY WITH THEE HATERS . but do notice i said WHO bRING THE WORDS OF WHO
OF GOD in that BIBLE .
GUESS WHO IS ON TRIAL in these lovey do churches today . IF YA SAID GOD you bang on SPOT ON RIGHT .
HIS WORDS are cast OUT as hate speech and the devils mixture is called good and loving .

 

[Davidpt]

you do realize why folks run to chat , run to google , run to AI .
cause lets face it , THEY have not truly read and learned the BIBLE .
Just like those who run to their pastors cheat notes every time .
People DO NOT KNOW the scriptures my friend . AND what scriptures they do know
YOU CAN BET have been twisted to fit WHO and what SO EVER THEY SAT UNDER .
As for me , THE SPIRIT IS ALL I NEED and the HOLY BOOK called the bible is all i need to read . let the haters hate .
This sheep has JESUS and shall expose the works of darkness no matter how often i get called
judgmental , a hater , one who knows not GOD or LOVE . though THEY are the ones who KNOW NOT GOD OR LOVE .
And how do i know for a fact they do not know GOD or HIS LOVE .
READY , steady ..................THEY ALLOW SIN to remain UPON THIS PEOPLE .
And now a word .
YE SHALL NOT HATE your neighbor in your heart , YOU SHALL correct HIM and not allow SIN upon him .
THEIR MOTTO IS , YE SHALL NOT HATE your neighbor in your heart , DONT SAY A WORD , JUST HUG and APPROVE OF THEM
and MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD . And to those wh oDO bring the words of GOD
they say to them , AWAY WITH THEE HATERS . but do notice i said WHO bRING THE WORDS OF WHO
OF GOD in that BIBLE .
GUESS WHO IS ON TRIAL in these lovey do churches today . IF YA SAID GOD you bang on SPOT ON RIGHT .
HIS WORDS are cast OUT as hate speech and the devils mixture is called good and loving .

Whatever. Just lie about why some of us are doing what we are doing at times. That's the Christian way, right? To bear false witness about someone. That doesn't mean you might not be right about some who are doing that. Just don't paint it with a broad brush is all. That's being unfair and unreasonable by doing so. That's like someone that is having a dispute with an Amil that is way out in left field at times, for example, @Truth7t7, then painting it with a broad brush that this means ALL Amils are way out in left field at times. Except that's not fair nor reasonable in regard to Amils who are not way out in left field at times. An example of an Amil way out in left field--the 70 weeks are literal weeks and they are future. No way am I going to paint that with a broad brush. At least I try and be fair to others, you apparently don't.

 

[Davidpt]

Translation: You don't think it's possible that the Holy Spirit can help you understand scripture. Which I already knew because of your reliance on AI and supposed "common sense", etc. What a joke.

Right, I don't believe the Holy Spirit can help anyone understand scripture--not. You missed the point entirely. per the scenario I submitted, 10 different ppl are coming to 10 different conclusions about the same text. All 10 insist the Holy Spirit led them to their conclusions. Assuming someone is correct, well they all can't be correct. therefore, 9 of them are mistaking help from the Holy spirit being why they conclude what they do. Otherwise, since the Holy Spirit can't lie, all 10 of them would be coming to the exact same conclusion regarding the text that the one that is correct is arriving at. Except a scenario like this, how do those looking in from the outside determine which one of the 10 is correct and which 9 aren't to begin with? II of course was being sarcastic using you as an example being among these 10. Yet you have plainly told me in the past there are no holes in your theology, everything lines up perfectly.