Many Say ‘Just Believe’… But What Did Jesus Actually Teach?

[mailmandan]

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation?

Again, Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely required for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

If you don't believe in the existence of Jesus Christ (atheist) then you won't be water baptized yet there have been numerous people over the years (especially those in various false religions and cults) who have been water baptized but did not truly believe in Jesus unto salvation and reject faith without even realizing it. Now such people may have believed "mental assent" in the existence of Jesus Christ and in certain historical facts about Jesus Christ, but they did not believe in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation but instead were trusting in the work of water baptism for salvation.

Now such people go on to be water baptized anyway because they are trusting in water baptism for salvation. I know first-hand because I used to be one of them. Upon coming to believe the gospel later on, many people have been re-baptized (including myself) and this time it was "believers" baptism. If you can believe that EVERYONE who has ever been water baptized and "claims" to be a Christian truly was a born again Christian when they received water baptism, then you can believe anything and are extremely naive.

And it don't say he who believes is saved!

It don't say whoever is not baptized will not be saved. If he who believes will be saved (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well. However, it's the lack of belief which causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism.

So don’t negate the word of God or the eternal words of Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

I'm not deleting anything. I am properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine in order to avoid contradictions. You seem to be okay with contradictions as long as your pet doctrine is upheld.

the faith required by the words: "he does not believe is condemned" are the very words of Christ! he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

While Mark 16:16 tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would be necessary, “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

By one Spirit and not by H20.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by “faith alone”! Rom 13:11

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (apart from additions or modifications, hence, faith alone) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, (apart from additions or modifications, hence, faith alone) and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

*The opposite of faith alone would be justified and saved by/through faith and works, but that is NOT what Paul said. Simple!

 

[amigo de christo]

God does not need proof my friend.

God knows.. as a believer, I would think you understiid this..

God indeed knows all things .
But believe me when i say , the fruits produced are proof of who one follows .
And the sheep shall know them by such fruits . Its for our own welfare and benefit we beware
the lips of the many whose hearts be far far from HIM .
Cause i see me a big ol CHOO CHOO train of an anti christ ecumeincal intefaith interreligious train .
And the cry and call is , TOOT TOOT , all aboard the love train and let us attain peace n safety .
ONLY what they do not realize is
MR CHOO CHOO gonna be smashed flat with all its passengers ON THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST .
And we sure dont desire their death and destruction .
SO , TIME to warn all that breathes my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

Are these men infallible? Are their writings inspired by God? Are the writings of the Council of Trent inspired Scripture?

Why my near and dear friend
I can answer your questions , all three of them . NO .
Nor is ecumeincal intefaith . Ecumenical interfaith has simply come
to merge the deceived of all tribes with the decieved of christendom
to a big ol love ride to what they think gonna usher peace n safety upon them .
Now for what it really is going to bring down upon them
take a peek at the preview by reading chapter five of first thessalonians
And you see exactly what they shall find when they were chanting such two words .
A hint , NOT GOOD at all .
So when you hear the cry of the CHOO CHOO train of many diverse carts
and its all inclusive cry , WARN THE PASSENGERS ON THAT TRAIN to GET OFF quickly
And let not yourself enter that train either .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God indeed knows all things .
But believe me when i say , the fruits produced are proof of who one follows .
And the sheep shall know them by such fruits . Its for our own welfare and benefit we beware
the lips of the many whose hearts be far far from HIM .
Cause i see me a big ol CHOO CHOO train of an anti christ ecumeincal intefaith interreligious train .
And the cry and call is , TOOT TOOT , all aboard the love train and let us attain peace n safety .
ONLY what they do not realize is
MR CHOO CHOO gonna be smashed flat with all its passengers ON THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST .
And we sure dont desire their death and destruction .
SO , TIME to warn all that breathes my friend .

You focus to much on works my friend. Focus on God and works will follow..

There will be many peopl ein heaven who we questioned if they were saved or not. and there will be many in hell which we thought were on fire for God.

We are told to do service in secret. and we will be blessed from God. those do it in the open. look for praise from men.. God will humble them

 

[MatthewG]

You focus to much on works my friend. Focus on God and works will follow..

There will be many peopl ein heaven who we questioned if they were saved or not. and there will be many in hell which we thought were on fire for God.

We are told to do service in secret. and we will be blessed from God. those do it in the open. look for praise from men.. God will humble them

I agree there is so many people that performative based it's not funny. It has nothing to do with performance.

I wanted to share this with the Original Title:

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

It's the only thing that remotely exist that I believe overall applies to all of those who are believers in the Lord Jesus.

Now, can we be able to love everyone appropriately always sometimes? Not always but still mercy, kindness, even teaching boundaries between you know what is good for you or not good for you cause some people are just disrespectful and those people while you can love them you can also love them from a distant and let God work on them.

 

[amigo de christo]

You focus to much on works my friend. Focus on God and works will follow..

There will be many peopl ein heaven who we questioned if they were saved or not. and there will be many in hell which we thought were on fire for God.

We are told to do service in secret. and we will be blessed from God. those do it in the open. look for praise from men.. God will humble them

really . me focusing on works did you say .
WHY its not me joining up with an ecumeincal interfaith interreligious dialgoue love train .
whose motto is , HEY ALL RELGOINS SERVE THE SAME GOD . screech the brakes and say what .
THAT SOUNDS LIKE WORKS TO ME , LIKE false LOVE T OME .
JESUS has been denied , and yet its ME focusing on works . WOW .
NO my friend its you all focusing on the wrong love t rain . Taking that ecumeincal interfaith lets be one train ride
and we shall have us peace n safety . That is a works train buddy and oh boy its love be false .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree there is so many people that performative based it's not funny. It has nothing to do with performance.

I wanted to share this with the Original Title:

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

It's the only thing that remotely exist that I believe overall applies to all of those who are believers in the Lord Jesus.

Now, can we be able to love everyone appropriately always sometimes? Not always but still mercy, kindness, even teaching boundaries between you know what is good for you or not good for you cause some people are just disrespectful and those people while you can love them you can also love them from a distant and let God work on them.

I see it this way., we love because God first loved us.. Not because we have any ability to love with in us.. it is all the work of God..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

really . me focusing on works did you say .
WHY its not me joining up with an ecumeincal interfaith interreligious dialgoue love train .
whose motto is , HEY ALL RELGOINS SERVE THE SAME GOD . screech the brakes and say what .
THAT SOUNDS LIKE WORKS TO ME , LIKE false LOVE T OME .
JESUS has been denied , and yet its ME focusing on works . WOW .
NO my friend its you all focusing on the wrong love t rain . Taking that ecumeincal interfaith lets be one train ride
and we shall have us peace n safety . That is a works train buddy and oh boy its love be false .

No my friend.

We focus on God. and his work in us. Not on us and our works.

God has raised us up and sat is in heavenly places based on his work. Our works of love come out of him, He is the one who perfected us. he is the one who is sanctifying us.

Turn to God turn away from religion and self praise..

 

[Nancy]

be converted implies a full change of behavior from the works of the flesh to the works of righteousness or the works of the Spirit!

"the way of righteousness"

ps 23:3 leads in right paths

mt 7:14 narrow road

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

all imply works

Jn 15:4 abide in Christ & bear fruit
Lk 3:9 bear fruit
Lk 1:75 acts 10:35 deeds of righteousness
phil 1:11 fruits of righteousness
mt 26:41 watch and pray
mk 24:48 watch and pray
Lk 21:36 Watch and pray, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
mt 7:7 ask and you shall receive
Lk 9:23 phil 1:29 daily, deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me.
ps 23:3 leads in paths (deeds) of righteousness acts 10:35
mt 7:14 narrow road that leads to life
2 pet 3:18 grow in grace
heb 6:12 faith & patience
rev 2:19 faith, patience, & works
rev 14:12 commandments, patience, & faith
mt 19:17 Jn 14:21 1 cor 7:19 1Jn 3:24 1 Jn 5:2-3 rev 12:17 keep the commandments
mt 10:22 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 endure to the end in patient suffering
rev 2:10 he who overcomes I shall give the crown of life!

all imply works

grace enables good works
2 cor 12:9

law implies works

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

thks

Here's another easily understood verse:

2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here's another easily understood verse:

2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

I like this.. Let make sure we do not just focus on the good. we will also be judged as believers for when we were not good.. and be rewarded appropriately for what kind of work it was.

No everyone will be a Paul or Peter. sadly there will be many who stand in front of God and watch all their rewards turned to ash.. Yet they will be saved even as through fire.

I like to take the foundation of seeking after the things of the spirit and serving and loving others. while letting God work through me.. Anythign I do of self always fails.. If we are others focused. the good works will flow..

 

[Nancy]

I like this.. Let make sure we do not just focus on the good. we will also be judged as believers for when we were not good.. and be rewarded appropriately for what kind of work it was.

No everyone will be a Paul or Peter. sadly there will be many who stand in front of God and watch all their rewards turned to ash.. Yet they will be saved even as through fire.

I like to take the foundation of seeking after the things of the spirit and serving and loving others. while letting God work through me.. Anythign I do of self always fails.. If we are others focused. the good works will flow..

Thank you brother, this brings to mind the "many and few stripes". Yes, it is all according to what we have done while on this earth.

 

[faithhopecharity]

I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. Don't confuse Spirit baptism (1 Corinthians 12:13) with water baptism.

In regard to faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) which is not to be confused with a bare profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone/barren of works (James 2:14),
the Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now you don't need to "add" the word "alone" or "not baptized" next to "belief/faith" in each of those passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone.

1 cor 13:13
faith hope and charity is not hyperbole

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

thks

 

[mailmandan]

1 cor 13:13
faith hope and charity is not hyperbole

I did not say they were hyperbole. Do you not listen? Again, Paul is using hyperbole about having faith that can move mountains yet having no love in order to express the importance of love. Paul is not suggesting that there are Christians who have faith that can move mountains but have no love or hope at all and won't be saved. If we have faith, then it would be impossible to not have hope. Hebrews 11:6 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. If we have faith, then it would be impossible to have no love and love demonstrates that we have been born of God. (1 John 4:7-8)

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

thks

Notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope in 1 Thessalonians 1:3. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work "followed" as a result or consequence "of" their faith.

 

[faithhopecharity]

So then why are so many walking after the flesh these days .
WHY are so many so fast to accept sin and so fast to condemn those who correct sin in those churches .
I sees me a skittles rainbow jesus getting sold .
I seems me a very strange and diverse koran kissing , budda statue accepting jesus g etting sold .
THE ONLY problem is , JESUS IS NOT the MINSTIR OF SIN and UNBELEIF . so yeah
we do have us a major problem with the wicked harlots ecumeincal interfaith flow .

grace is resistable!

faithful christians don't pray for sinners!

mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

thks

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you brother, this brings to mind the "many and few stripes". Yes, it is all according to what we have done while on this earth.

Therfore knowing the terror of GOD we persaude men . any guesses on what paul meant by persaude men .
TO BELEIVE ON JESUS . the lambs aint gonna be beaten with s tripes
IN this life we will be chastened . Sure for our own good too .
But all will appear before the JUDGMENT seat of CHRIST . both goats and sheep .
ONLY sheep gonna be singing glory hallelujah to the ONE who saved them .
The goats , the only singing from them will be a choir of weeping . JESUS IS NOT going to BE DENIED .
As i am sure YOU KNOW that well sister .
And any mercy , any grace , any love , any acts of kindness
THAT allowed Or t aught UNBELEIF , IT CAME OF SATAN not GOD . it came of anti christ not CHRIST .
THE MERCY OF GOD would NEVER ONCE have made the road broad and included UNBELIEF .
T he grace of GOD had never done that . But a harlot sure will .

 

[amigo de christo]

grace is resistable!

faithful christians don't pray for sinners!

mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

thks

do faithful christains weep for them . paul did . even weeping that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ .
But dont let that fool ya for one second or milli second
that meant paul walked the road of an anti christ ecumeincal non correcting harlot . OH HE REBUKED ,
OH HOW he corrected . Why a man went blind as a bat for doing what todays ECUMIENC AL WHORE DOES .
T RYING TO LEAD the deputy AWAY from the faith
AS THAT WHORE does all to lead folks to a lie and far from the one true faith that could have actually have saved them .

 

[amigo de christo]

grace is resistable!

faithful christians don't pray for sinners!

mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

thks

very strait is the gate , and narrow is the way .
We know not where you go so how can we know the way .
I AM THE WAY , The TRUTH and THE LIFE and no man cometh to the FATHER , but by ME .
the problem is many follow a BROAD path jesus at best . one that wont correct sin , one that e ven accepts sin
and calls evil good and good evil . a jesus that calls the words of GOD hate speech .
That ecmeincal harlot is gonna pay for her rebellious false love snare she set upon this entire world and much of christendom .
AND as with the whore so too with all her jo ined hands with her and sat under her all inclusive love
and peace plan of an anti christ .

 

[faithhopecharity]

You continue to "add" baptism to verses that do not mention baptism. You also confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism. Instead of carpet bombing me with verses why don't we discuss these verses 9ne or two at a time. I will discuss two verses with you now.

In Acts 22:16, the cleansing happens as he calls on Christ, not by the water itself. The water is symbolic; the appeal to Christ’s name is the saving act. Romans 10:13 - For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The remission of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18 3. Figuratively, by water baptism - Acts 22:16

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

In regard to Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration is not accomplished by water baptism. The word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used *metaphorically of the Word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing,* (Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5), of the "washing of regeneration."

Washing refers to spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the word of God through the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

so water baptism is meaningless?

thks

 

[amigo de christo]

so water baptism is meaningless?

thks

nope . Oh it holds meaning all right .
BUT its FAITH ALONE IN JESUS that saved one .
And by meaning i say , HEY if the early church did it , AND THEY DID . THEN WE DO IT TOO .

 

[faithhopecharity]

You continue to "add" baptism to verses that do not mention baptism. You also confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism. Instead of carpet bombing me with verses why don't we discuss these verses 9ne or two at a time. I will discuss two verses with you now.

In Acts 22:16, the cleansing happens as he calls on Christ, not by the water itself. The water is symbolic; the appeal to Christ’s name is the saving act. Romans 10:13 - For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The remission of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18 3. Figuratively, by water baptism - Acts 22:16

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

In regard to Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration is not accomplished by water baptism. The word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used *metaphorically of the Word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing,* (Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5), of the "washing of regeneration."

Washing refers to spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the word of God through the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

it is not required to mention baptism if it implies baptism just as Jn 3:5 does not mention faith but implies faith

why do the leaders always mention baptism if baptism is unnecessary and meaningless?

Acts 8:36-39

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

should say: "what prevents me from being saved"?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart thou mayest

don't say public profession of the faith that already saved him cos there are only these two, there is no public!

acts 22:16

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

should say: "call on the name of the Lord and you have eternal salvation"!

why was paul baptized?

Notice: it says "be baptized", not experience the new spiritual birth, Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom 2 peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
we cannot do it ourselves by faith alone! baptism is done to us, administerd!

Eph 4:5

One Lord, one faith, one baptism

should say: "one Lord one faith"!

thks

the early church fathers all say baptism is necessary for salvation and the rogue fundamentalist preachers who reject anything but a spiritual born again experience!

thks