The Law of Moses : Can't Define a CHRISTian. #1

[Ziggy]

KJV
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

NLT
Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.

AMP
So then, my dear ones, just as you have always obeyed [my instructions with enthusiasm], not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation [that is, cultivate it, bring it to full effect, actively pursue spiritual maturity] with awe-inspired fear and trembling [using serious caution and critical self-evaluation to avoid anything that might offend God or discredit the name of Christ].

Phl 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

How does one "work out" their own salvation?

Eph 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Jhn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:8
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Working out your own salvation is to walk the walk not just talk the talk.

Jas 1:21
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23
For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

There some people that go to church every week, sing their halleluiahs, greet the assembly with smiles and shaking hands.
And the very next day go out and curse the very same people whether by gossiping, (did you see what sally was wearing? )
(That guy Joe, I heard he's a real slacker) .

You have to actually tend that garden in your heart by pulling out the weeds and the thorns that choke the word trying to flourish within you.
What does Jesus call them? The ones who who are sown ...

Mar 4:18
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
Mar 4:19
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

There is that fruit again. But in this case the thorny heart or stubborn or angry heart, holding grudges and such, these become unfruitful.
That list above in Galatians Chapter 5.

 

[Ziggy]

This is the work that we must do, remove the thorns and the weeds in our hearts that choke the word from bearing good fruit.

God put man in the garden to tend it.
The Holy Spirit is in your heart working to tend it.
The problem is when we make it harder for the Spirit than it has to be.
The woman was given to help.
The church works together with the Spirit to tend the garden of your heart.

But when the church goes sideways and begins tending the garden their own way, planting their own seeds, then the Spirit will eventually leave and be replaced by another spirit. God calls this the spirit of rebellion or Sin.

There is a parable.

Mat 12:43
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Mat 12:44
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

These other spirits are the thorns and weeds that begin to grow again after they had been removed.
Gal 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Our work is to make sure these thorns don't get a foothold and begin to take root again in our hearts.
That is where temptations come in.

But we are not alone to overcome temptations, or weeding out the garden, If you have the Spirit of God in you.
1Co 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Prayer is the means by which man escapes temptations.
So when you find yourself not bearing good fruit, pray for help.

Rom 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

This is the marriage of the Lamb and the church working together to bring forth much fruit.
This is Adam and Eve in the garden before they rebelled against God and brought forth works of the flesh.
Hugs

 

[Wrangler]

See ..
that's one of your main issues..... you are only wanting to post and repost about ""YOUR position""..when the Siubject is regarding = GOD's Salvation through Christ......, and you are not yet able to realize this about yourself, but we already have.

-see you there next time.. @Wrangler

Neither God nor Christ is having this conversation. It's just your position and my position. Get over yourself!

No one ever said it's not God's salvation through Christ. You're just in denial that when the captain sends the ship to rescue the drowning man at see, the ensign who throws the drowning man a life preserver still relies on the drowning man to grab hold of it. No reasonable person would construe that as "saving yourself."

 

[Behold]

Today, I wanted to share a fresh word with you reader, as i can tell that some who found my Thread are seeing the Light.

So, let me show you more from Paul's Doctrine regarding the effect of Moses Law on you, if you chase it to try to be SAVED... or to stay saved.

Romans 7:7-8​

​

7: What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.​

​

8 : But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.​

​

Reader, ​

Notice that Paul teaches that (vs 7) the reason that He understood His sin, was because MOSES Law revealed it.​

Paul teaches that the reason that He knew His own sin, is because of MOSES LAW.​

​

And vs 8.... Paul explains that if the Law is not there, then sin is dead..... In other words......"Where there is no Law, there is no Sin (Transgression) found.""""​

​

Now, notice what Paul Teaches.... as the final solution for this situation that everyone faces... before they are Born again.​

​

A.) """Christ is the END OF THE LAW.......for Righteousness, to/for everyone who BELIEVES""".​

​

The Born again """"are NOT UNDER THE LAW, but Under Grace""""..​

​

So, how does God's Grace = deal eternally with our sin, that is uncovered by MOSES Law?​

​

AA.) """Where sin abounds...(where its found)... (God's) GRACE, MORE Abounds""".... and this means that the Blood of Jesus removes all sin , by forgiving you your sin, forever.​

See that?​

So, when a Evangelist like me tells a group of born again Believers....= "ALL your sin is gone"..... What im teaching is : "Christ is the End of the Law", and "where there is no LAW, there is no SIN"......found.​

​

Now.... where is this place where there is no law and no sin found?​

​

AAA.) God's GRACE​

​

And What is God's Grace? ​

God's Grace is Jesus on The Cross...... So, when you come to The Beautiful Lord Jesus for Eternal Forgiveness, then you receive God's Grace, and that means your sin is instantly dealt with by the"" one time Eternal Sacrifice"""= of Christ on The Cross.​

​

AAAA.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME.... ETERNAL Sacrifice for Sin"...and this is Because Jesus's sacrifice is God's eternal Forgiveness of all sin, and that is God's Grace which is eternally applied to every BELIEVER.​

So then, where is our sin?.....Where is the sin of a born again Christian now found?...?​

​

Now learn this... Reader​

= """GOD.. has made JESUS...to be SIN for us""".....and there goes your sin., because Jesus has been sacrificed for all of your sin, and God has accepted His Holy Sacrifice on your behalf,= for eternity.​

​

This is "God's Grace"... ​

​

This is "The Gift of Salvation".​

​

This is why we teach that : JESUS is Salvation...... John 14:6​

​

​

​

​

​

 

[Soyeong]

Is repentance necessary for salvation or only belief in Jesus?

Repentance is the way to believe in Jesus.

 

[Soyeong]

My Pastor taught that the Law of Moses never applied to us; it only applied to the Jews.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on the Law of Moses (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23), so what people be the point of spreading a Gospel that calls for repentance from our disobedience to the Law of Moses as a light to Gentiles if it only applied to Jews?

 

[RepentingChristian]

Repentance is the way to believe in Jesus.

It seems that repentance is a consequence of faith. A lack of repentance indicates a lack of faith, apparently.

 

[Soyeong]

It seems that repentance is a consequence of faith. A lack of repentance indicates a lack of faith, apparently.

Repentance is going from leaning on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes to trusting in God with all of our heart to make our way straight by correctly dividing between right and wrong through His law (Proverbs 3:1-7), which is what it means to have faith.

 

[RepentingChristian]

Repentance is going from leaning on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes to trusting in God with all of our heart to make our way straight by correctly dividing between right and wrong through His law (Proverbs 3:1-7), which is what it means to have faith.

You're wrong. I'm right.

 

[Linda]

Quick Lesson On : The LAW of MOSES

1.) Its MOSES Law that defines a person as a sinner, because its Moses 613 Laws and Commandments that are broken which define you, until you become a born again CHRISTian.

So, when a person is born again, they are born again "NOT under the law, but UNDER GRACE">., and that is an eternal change, not a temporary change, and its based on THE CROSS OF CHRIST and not on our behavior.

Now Reader, what is the main purpose of... The Moses 613 Laws and Moses 10 Commandments? ??

A.) """" That the entire world is shown to be guilty before God."" Paul teaches in Romans., as that is the effect of the Law and 10 Commandments AGAINST us all.
Reader, the Law is not for you, its against you......Its designed to REVEAL what you are before God so that you will turn to Christ for eternal help, for eternal forgiveness, and for eternal Salvation.

So, this issue with MOSES Law..... has to be resolved or we "die in our sins" and we go to hell.

Now, Notice this verse carefully.

A.) = """""Jesus is the END of THE LAW....for Righteousness, to/for everyone who BELIEVES""". .. Paul teaches us.

So, if you are a born again Christian then you are no longer under the law, and you are no longer being judged by the law and 10 commandments.

You are : ""NOT under the LAW, but Under Grace"".

Now why does this blow the minds of most Christians.....to the point that they can't believe it and want to resist this truth?
Its because the carnal nature and the Devil are always working together to try to wipe out the revelation knowledge regarding = "who we have become IN CHRIST".
And what we have to do, is get the right mind about this, .. recognizing every day of our lives = our eternal Status "in Christ".." not under the law"...= having become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

So, if a believer is to "walk in the Spirit" in the "renewed mind", as Paul teaches, then you have to get the revelation that a born again Christian is "not under the law", and they exit as "made free from sin"... .having become .. "THE Righteousness of God, in Christ".

That is GOD's eternal perspective of every Born Again Christian, and we must get the same MIND , and keep it.

Reader this revelation knowledge is SPIRITUAL...= SPIRITUAL only, and it wont fit the belief system of a carnal minded believer, or a religious fakir who both believe that they are a sinner, sinning, and need to confess sin and "behavior modify"... to try to stay saved.

Nope I never said they can do no wrong. I said they can not sin.

People make mistakes, that's how we learn.
A mistake is not sin.

Sin in and of itself is having NO belief that God is.
Sin is and of itself is having NO faith that God is able to keep us from sinning.

Sin in the OT are things that are done in the flesh, they are carnal in nature.
SIN in the NT are things that are done in the spirit. They are spiritual.

The OT is all about living in a carnal world.
The NT is all about living in the Spirit.

You cannot live in the Spirit without God.
Therefore if you are walking in the Spirit you cannot sin.
You cannot deny God.

Jhn 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified. )

Jhn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Sin is denying God.

Jhn 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

You have to believe what God says and what he promises otherwise it is of none effect.

1Jo 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jo 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Hugs

So, when a person is born again, they are born again "NOT under the law, but UNDER GRACE">., and that is an eternal change, not a temporary change, and its based on THE CROSS OF CHRIST and not on our behavior.

Nope I never said they can do no wrong. I said they can not sin.

People make mistakes, that's how we learn.
A mistake is not sin.

Sin in and of itself is having NO belief that God is.
Sin is and of itself is having NO faith that God is able to keep us from sinning.

Sin in the OT are things that are done in the flesh, they are carnal in nature.
SIN in the NT are things that are done in the spirit. They are spiritual.

The OT is all about living in a carnal world.
The NT is all about living in the Spirit.

You cannot live in the Spirit without God.
Therefore if you are walking in the Spirit you cannot sin.
You cannot deny God.

Jhn 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified. )

Jhn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Sin is denying God.

Jhn 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

You have to believe what God says and what he promises otherwise it is of none effect.

1Jo 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jo 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Hugs

Sin in and of itself is having NO belief that God is.
Sin is and of itself is having NO faith that God is able to keep us from sinning.

Yes, if we are living in the Spirit we cant sin
Since we cant serve two masters, but God
Does Not keep us from sinning, where do
You find that in the written word?

God can only go so far as we abide in Him,
And if we sin, thats on our record.

Our free will was a gift from God and that
Gift was to be used Wisely to choose
Him not our own flesh or mind that might
Otherwise go against Him.

God cannot keep us from our free will, He
Cannot retract what He gave us, but we
Will have to bare the penalty in so doing
If or when we dont abide in Him.

 

[Linda]

Nope I never said they can do no wrong. I said they can not sin.

People make mistakes, that's how we learn.
A mistake is not sin.

Sin in and of itself is having NO belief that God is.
Sin is and of itself is having NO faith that God is able to keep us from sinning.

Sin in the OT are things that are done in the flesh, they are carnal in nature.
SIN in the NT are things that are done in the spirit. They are spiritual.

The OT is all about living in a carnal world.
The NT is all about living in the Spirit.

You cannot live in the Spirit without God.
Therefore if you are walking in the Spirit you cannot sin.
You cannot deny God.

Jhn 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified. )

Jhn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Sin is denying God.

Jhn 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

You have to believe what God says and what he promises otherwise it is of none effect.

1Jo 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jo 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Hugs

Thats an unfair statement to make:

The OT is all about living in a carnal world.

There were righteous jews at the time
Jesus walked the earth, as well as before
He walked the earth, and those Jews didnt
Live in the NT, and followed the old, but
Heres the reason why they werent righteous
And why they were considered righteous
By God.

First off, it wasnt because they followed
The 613 laws of the old Covenant, rather,
It was a direct result of their living a life
That God wrote on the tablets in stone,
Whereby, they loved their neighbor as
Themselves, loved God with all their
Heart, did not murder, nor steal, nor tell
Lies against another or at all.
They kept aside the Lords Day, respected
And revered the Sabbath, honored mother
And father, and God called that righteous.

When Jesus came and told us He didnt
Come to destroy the law but to fulfill it,
Is Proof that the OT was spiritual and not
Having any benefit to ones faith in God.

So many Christians today do not consider
The ten commandments as to apply to
Them, but it has been shown that when Jesus
Said He came to fulfill the law, it was the
Spirit of the law that was meant to save people,
Not what they ate as unclean, but the filth
That came from their mouths, as we learn
In these Moral Truths of God as well as Jesus telling us all, “ my father and i are one”, and
If you see the father you see me, meaning
They are inseparable, and no covenant
Can remove what makes someone righteous
Or not in what they believe in, Rather, in
How they abide in the Moral Laws that God
Gave to our Forefather, Moses.

What God wrote in those tablets of stone
Is the very reason Jesus came to fulfill
The law, Not To Remove It, but to match
That of what His Father wrote in Stone,
As why Jesus and His Father are one in
The same being, not because Of the
Old Covenant vs the New Covenant..

 

[Angelina]

Quick Lesson On : The LAW of MOSES

1.) Its MOSES Law that defines a person as a sinner, because its Moses 613 Laws and Commandments that are broken which define you, until you become a born again CHRISTian.

So, when a person is born again, they are born again "NOT under the law, but UNDER GRACE">., and that is an eternal change, not a temporary change, and its based on THE CROSS OF CHRIST and not on our behavior.

Now Reader, what is the main purpose of... The Moses 613 Laws and Moses 10 Commandments? ??

A.) """" That the entire world is shown to be guilty before God."" Paul teaches in Romans., as that is the effect of the Law and 10 Commandments AGAINST us all.
Reader, the Law is not for you, its against you......Its designed to REVEAL what you are before God so that you will turn to Christ for eternal help, for eternal forgiveness, and for eternal Salvation.

So, this issue with MOSES Law..... has to be resolved or we "die in our sins" and we go to hell.

Now, Notice this verse carefully.

A.) = """""Jesus is the END of THE LAW....for Righteousness, to/for everyone who BELIEVES""". .. Paul teaches us.

So, if you are a born again Christian then you are no longer under the law, and you are no longer being judged by the law and 10 commandments.

You are : ""NOT under the LAW, but Under Grace"".

Now why does this blow the minds of most Christians.....to the point that they can't believe it and want to resist this truth?
Its because the carnal nature and the Devil are always working together to try to wipe out the revelation knowledge regarding = "who we have become IN CHRIST".
And what we have to do, is get the right mind about this, .. recognizing every day of our lives = our eternal Status "in Christ".." not under the law"...= having become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

So, if a believer is to "walk in the Spirit" in the "renewed mind", as Paul teaches, then you have to get the revelation that a born again Christian is "not under the law", and they exit as "made free from sin"... .having become .. "THE Righteousness of God, in Christ".

That is GOD's eternal perspective of every Born Again Christian, and we must get the same MIND , and keep it.

Reader this revelation knowledge is SPIRITUAL...= SPIRITUAL only, and it wont fit the belief system of a carnal minded believer, or a religious fakir who both believe that they are a sinner, sinning, and need to confess sin and "behavior modify"... to try to stay saved.

I agree with the emphasis that salvation is by grace through Christ and not by works of the law, which is clearly taught in Scripture (Eph. 2:8–9). The Law does expose sin and cannot justify us.
Where I think this has gone off track is in saying the law is simply “against” believers or no longer relevant in any meaningful sense. Paul also says the Law is holy and good (Rom. 7:12) and that it serves a purpose in revealing sin and pointing us to Christ (Gal. 3:24).

Also, while we are not under the Law as a covenant of condemnation, the New Testament still calls believers to repentance, confession, and holiness in walking with the Spirit. Grace doesn’t remove that, it empowers it without condemnation.

So I think both truths need to be held together: justified by grace alone, but also transformed into holiness by the Spirit.

 

[Behold]

So, when a person is born again, they are born again "NOT under the law, but UNDER GRACE">., and that is an eternal change, not a temporary change, and its based on THE CROSS OF CHRIST and not on our behavior.

Exactly.

"Our faith is counted (by God) as (Christ's) Imputed righteousness"..

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD< and it I(his faith) was counted (by God) as Righteousness"..

"Justification by FAITH, without works and without the law"..

"Its not by our works that God saved us, but its according to God's MERCY that He saved us"

"Grace THROUGH FAITH.....without works or deeds of the Law"....

"to ALL who worketh not but BELIEVE on GOD who JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY....= our FAITH is counted (by God) as RIGHTEOUSNESS"...... eternally imputed to us.

Sin in and of itself is having NO belief that God is.

Sin is transgression of Moses's Law and 10 Commandments.

The heart of sin is a rebellious heart.

Sin is and of itself is having NO faith that God is able to keep us from sinning.

Is it a sin to believe that God does not keep us saved the same way He saved us to begin with? ???????????

Paul does not refer to this type of unbelief in a Christian's heart as sin..

He instead defines them as "bewitched" "in the flesh" and "fallen from Grace"..

See Galatians chapters 3 & 5.

Yes, if we are living in the Spirit we cant sin

"living in the Spirit".......is to exist "in Christ" as "one with God", having received God's Imputed righteousness.
So, there is no sin found here because we are not "under the law" ......we are "under Grace".

Does this means you can't commit works of the flesh.......carnality?
No, it means that your deeds can't be judged by the Law, ever again.

"Where there is no LAW, there is no TRANSGRESSION (sin).. found"....

Does Not keep us from sinning,

God does not keep us from sinning.

Christ's blood and death ATONEMENT keeps us from being Judged by the Law...... so, when the Law can't judge us, then there is no sin found...

See, the LAW.....is a curse to us, because it defines us as a SINNER.....therefore, when we are "under Grace" and "not under the Law"....then there is no longer the LAW that can define us as anything.= no more curse of the Law.

"Jesus has redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW"........ means.......He has removed the Law from us, therefore it can't define us as a sinner, ever again.

So, when we read that we are "made free from sin".......this means we are made free from the curse of the Law so that it can't define us as a sinner, ever again.

God can only go so far as we abide in Him,
And if we sin, thats on our record.

Our sin is on Christ, who die for them all 2000 yrs ago, on The Cross.
So, there is no "record" of our sin, as our record has been washed clean by the BLOOD OF JESUS = The Blood Atonment... 2000 yrs ago.

Our free will was a gift from God and that
Gift was to be used Wisely to choose

True.

God cannot keep us from our free will, He
Cannot retract what He gave us, but we
Will have to bare the penalty in so doing
If or when we dont abide in Him.

The born again "abide in Christ" not be tryng to be good.......but only because we are BORN AGAIN SPIRITUALLY "in Christ'.
We are IN HIM..........by Spiritual birth, we are become born again spiritually as = "ONE WITH GOD">. who is "A SPIRIT">... which is how and why we remain there........eternally.

 

[Soyeong]

I agree with the emphasis that salvation is by grace through Christ and not by works of the law, which is clearly taught in Scripture (Eph. 2:8–9). The Law does expose sin and cannot justify us.
Where I think this has gone off track is in saying the law is simply “against” believers or no longer relevant in any meaningful sense. Paul also says the Law is holy and good (Rom. 7:12) and that it serves a purpose in revealing sin and pointing us to Christ (Gal. 3:24).

Also, while we are not under the Law as a covenant of condemnation, the New Testament still calls believers to repentance, confession, and holiness in walking with the Spirit. Grace doesn’t remove that, it empowers it without condemnation.

So I think both truths need to be held together: justified by grace alone, but also transformed into holiness by the Spirit.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith alone. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we can't earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of good works in obedience to His law is nevertheless a central part of His gift of salvation.

 

[Angelina]

Hi @Soyeong.
I agree that those who are saved by grace through faith will be transformed and will increasingly walk in obedience to God. Ephesians 2:10 clearly teaches that we are created in Christ Jesus for good works.

My only clarification would be that obedience is the fruit of salvation, not the basis of it. God does not save us because we become doers of the law; rather, because He has saved us through Christ, He gives us His Spirit and begins conforming us to His will.

The Law remains valuable in revealing God's character, exposing sin, and pointing us to Christ. But our righteousness before God rests entirely in Christ's finished work, not in our law-keeping. As believers, we obey not to obtain acceptance from God, but because we have already been accepted in Christ.

So I think we are largely in agreement: salvation is by grace through faith alone, and that same grace produces a life that increasingly reflects God's holiness.