Reason for The Crusades explained

[Wrangler]

One might even consider it being willfully ignorant with those "blinders" he keeps on!
Even to the point saying: "Well?" Jesus didn't kill anyone when He ran the money changers from the Temple."

Willfully ignorant blinders on:

Matthias: But didn't kill on that Tuesday at lunch time.
Us: Just because the killer didn't kill on that Tuesday at lunch time doesn't mean he's not a killer.
Matthias: But didn't kill on that Tuesday at lunch time!

 

[Matthias]

Willfully ignorant blinders on:

Matthias: But didn't kill on that Tuesday at lunch time.
Us: Just because the killer didn't kill on that Tuesday at lunch time doesn't mean he's not a killer.
Matthias: But didn't kill on that Tuesday at lunch time!

That’s a straw man.

Follow Jesus and the apostles and you will love your enemies and do good to them.

Why didn’t you learn that from your teachers?

 

[Matthias]

Going ONTO the Father?
I DO believe you would find yourself not "acting" like Jesus nor His Apostles!

This is the most important thing that you’ve said to me. It is in fact the one thing you’ve said that has stayed with me.

You know I‘m acting like Jesus and the apostles. @Wrangler doesn’t.

You want me to stop acting like Jesus and the apostles. You say that I would find myself acting differently if I do. You’re right.

 

[Matthias]

@NayborBear what would it look like if I stopped acting like Jesus and the apostles?



It would look like that. That would be me. Right?

 

[Matthias]

“If possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all men.”

(Romans 12:18)

Jesus and the apostles: Did they tell with their words and show with their actions how to live peaceably with all men when not all men were willing to live peaceably with them?

@Wrangler @Armour of God

No answer from them so I’ll answer -

Yes. They did.

That’s why my enemies didn’t answer. That answer is what my enemies are fighting against.

 

[Matthias]

Does Matthias advocate for the Father on Christianity Board?

My favorite psalm -> musical advocacy for my heavenly Father.

Anyone can allege that I’m not an advocate for the Father. The right response on my part is a peaceable demonstration.

 

[NayborBear]

View attachment 85229

Wally? I figured you would have known this already! But? Seeings you must have forgotten? I'll refresh your memory!
There are "SOME THINGS" Wally (aside from man's stupidity and ego) "LIKE RELIGIONS" that (how can I say Wally) that TRY AS MAN MAY WANT? Were NEVER MEANT to, or be COMPROMISED!
And these "ATTEMPTS" down through the "SLICES OF ETERNITY" HAS PROVEN THAT?
EVERY TIME AND THROUGH EVERY "SLICE?"
HAS ALWAYS ENDED BEING TO THE "DETRIMENT" OF BOTH!
To which NEITHER side ends up with:
a) What they wanted!
b) Are unable to "BE at PEACE" WITH the COMPROMISE!

 

[Matthias]

Wally? I figured you would have known this already! But? Seeings you must have forgotten? I'll refresh your memory!
There are "SOME THINGS" Wally (aside from man's stupidity and ego) "LIKE RELIGIONS" that (how can I say Wally) that TRY AS MAN MAY WANT? Were NEVER MEANT to, or be COMPROMISED!
And these "ATTEMPTS" down through the "SLICES OF ETERNITY" HAS PROVEN THAT?
EVERY TIME AND THROUGH EVERY "SLICE?"
HAS ALWAYS ENDED BEING TO THE "DETRIMENT" OF BOTH!
To which NEITHER side ends up with:
a) What they wanted!
b) Are unable to "BE at PEACE" WITH the COMPROMISE!

A lesson I learned in Sunday School: Follow Jesus and the apostles and it will end well for you.

 

[NayborBear]

“If possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all men.”

(Romans 12:18)

....."As FAR as it DEPENDS on YOU, live PEACEABLY with all men."
So? What would YOU do in the "scenario" where "men" don't WANT to live PEACEABLY with YOU?!
The first two words of this verse has the solution!
"IF possible!"
When it ISN'T possible?
Then WHAT?

 

[Matthias]

....."As FAR as it DEPENDS on YOU, live PEACEABLY with all men."
So? What would YOU do in the "scenario" where "men" don't WANT to live PEACEABLY with YOU?!
The first two words of this verse has the solution!
"IF possible!"
When it ISN'T possible?
Then WHAT?

See post #2618 and post #2665.

I teach, preach and practice what Jesus and the apostles did.

***

“As much as in you lies, live peaceably with all men, seek the good of all men.” - Jonathan Edwards

 

[Matthias]

....."As FAR as it DEPENDS on YOU, live PEACEABLY with all men."
So? What would YOU do in the "scenario" where "men" don't WANT to live PEACEABLY with YOU?!
The first two words of this verse has the solution!
"IF possible!"
When it ISN'T possible?
Then WHAT?

My favorite scene from The War of the Worlds -

The perfect analogy for the Messiah’s way vs your way? No, but it’s close.

Why isn’t it perfect? Romans 13.

When it isn’t possible, it isn’t possible because of what my enemy does. What my enemy does or doesn’t do doesn’t change the way I treat him. That’s the radical way to respond to enemies taught and modeled by Jesus and the apostles.

What happened to Jesus and the apostles?

Uncle Matthew vs. the Martians / pagan Romans happened. The enemy persecuted them; they suffered and they died. The same happened to the followers of Jesus until 313 AD.

[What happened in 313 AD? The Edict of Milan. This is the shift which @Wrangler denies happened.]

Was Uncle Matthew armed? Yes, of course. But not with the weapons of the world.

Did Uncle Matthew defend himself? Yes, of course. With the full armor of God.

Are you afraid that if you face your enemies the way the Messiah, the apostles, and the followers of Jesus did for centuries - Uncle Matthew represents them - that the enemy might kill you?

 

[NayborBear]

Are you afraid that if you face your enemies the way the Messiah, the apostles, and the followers of Jesus did for centuries - Uncle Matthew represents them - that the enemy might kill you?

George Patton (and me!)

On fighting and dying:
"Nobody ever won a war by DYING for his God! He won it by making the other poor dummy die for "his" god!"
(toned down and paraphrased, and reinterpreted (by me), for the "G-audience")

On those who do die:
"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived."

Just in case Matthias, you were under the ILLUSION that we are "NOT IN a WAR!"

And HAVE BEEN! For a LOT LONGER than you or I or ANYONE else "sucking air" has been around!

 

[Wrangler]

....."As FAR as it DEPENDS on YOU, live PEACEABLY with all men."
So? What would YOU do in the "scenario" where "men" don't WANT to live PEACEABLY with YOU?!
The first two words of this verse has the solution!
"IF possible!"
When it ISN'T possible?
Then WHAT?

@Matthias, as you ponder a response to this question, I have another that I hope you deeply consider. It has to do with balance between the SPIRITUAL and SOULFUL. The question is, why do you disregard the soulful applications of Scripture? (See specific verses and questions below). Besides @NayborBear verse above regarding "As FAR as it DEPENDS on YOU, live PEACEABLY with all men.", here are 7 other relevant (pairs) of verses:

1. Genesis 16:22. Sabbath, a day of rest to the LORD is to be our focus.
   • What are the things we dedicate ourselves to the other 6-days per week?
2. Matthew 6:33. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
   • "these things" referring to carnal needs of the soul: clothing, food, drink, correct?
3. Matthew 7:7 ask, seek knock for the soulful purposes, such as v9, Would any of you give your hungry child a stone, if the child asked for some bread?
   • We have the burden to ask, knock, seek AND to give our son carnal, physical bread according to these verses - not be passive and expect God to do what we can do for ourselves.
   • This verse tells us that we have burden to act for our soulful needs doesn't it?
4. Matthew 22:2 give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
   • Doesn't "the things" that are Caesar include military service, such as the Crusaders rendered?
5. Luke 22:36 (CEV) if you don't have a sword, sell some of your clothes and buy one. (Applied in comparison to Matthew 26:52 all who take the sword will perish by the sword.)
   • What purpose would anyone tell another to buy a sword?
6. 1 Corinthians 6:3 Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.
   • Someone just the other day was so ignorant of Scripture, they were fooled to think Matthew 7:2 contradicted its practical, soulful application).
   • Isn't it justice to resolve ordinary disputes in this life that we have the burden to judge?
7. Rev 20:14. Majority of humans who ever lived thrown into the Lake of Fire, 2nd eternal death as a prerequisite to achieve the New Heaven and New Earth.
   • Why do you ignore the violence necessary our Lord is to do to ultimately solve the problem of evil?

Before I came to Christ, a born again friend of mine was struck at how practical Christianity is. Yet, I find the over-spiritualized like you purge God's word of all these soulful, practical applications.

 

[Matthias]

George Patton (and me!)

On fighting and dying:
"Nobody ever won a war by DYING for his God! He won it by making the other poor dummy die for "his" god!"
(toned down and paraphrased, and reinterpreted (by me), for the "G-audience")

On those who do die:
"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived."

Just in case Matthias, you were under the ILLUSION that we are "NOT IN a WAR!"

And HAVE BEEN! For a LOT LONGER than you or I or ANYONE else "sucking air" has been around!

Jesus and the apostles vs. George Patton and you.

You’re following George Patton, not Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias, as you ponder a response to this question, I have another that I hope you deeply consider. It has to do with balance between the SPIRITUAL and SOULFUL. The question is, why do you disregard the soulful applications of Scripture? (See specific verses and questions below). Besides @NayborBear verse above regarding "As FAR as it DEPENDS on YOU, live PEACEABLY with all men.", here are 7 other relevant (pairs) of verses:

1. Genesis 16:22. Sabbath, a day of rest to the LORD is to be our focus.
   • What are the things we dedicate ourselves to the other 6-days per week?
2. Matthew 6:33. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
   • "these things" referring to carnal needs of the soul: clothing, food, drink, correct?
3. Matthew 7:7 ask, seek knockfor the soulful purposes, such as v9, Would any of you give your hungry child a stone, if the child asked for some bread?
   • We have the burden to ask, knock, seek AND to give our son carnal, physical bread according to these verses - not be passive and expect God to do what we can do for ourselves.
   • This verse tells us that we have burden to act for our soulful needs doesn't it?
4. Matthew 22:2 give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
   • Doesn't "the things" that are Caesar include military service, such as the Crusaders rendered?
5. Luke 22:36 (CEV) if you don't have a sword, sell some of your clothes and buy one. (Applied in comparison to Matthew 26:52 all who take the sword will perish by the sword.)
   • What purpose would anyone tell another to buy a sword?
6. 1 Corinthians 6:3 Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.
   • Someone just the other day was so ignorant of Scripture, they were fooled to think Matthew 7:2 contradicted its practical, soulful application).
   • Isn't it justice to resolve ordinary disputes in this life that we have the burden to judge?
7. Rev 20:14. Majority of humans who ever lived thrown into the Lake of Fire, 2nd eternal death as a prerequisite to achieve the New Heaven and New Earth.
   • Why do you ignore the violence necessary our Lord is to do to ultimately solve the problem of evil?

Before I came to Christ, a born again friend of mine was struck at how practical Christianity is. Yet, I find the over-spiritualized like you purge God's word of all these soulful, practical applications.

Jesus and the apostles set the example, are the example, of the practical application of scripture for the followers of Jesus.

Those who have come to Messiah treat their enemies as he treated, and instructed his followers to treat, enemies.

 

[Wrangler]

My favorite scene from The War of the Worlds -

Needless death is something you enjoy? Sadistic. Pathetic.

[What happened in 313 AD? The Edict of Milan. This is the shift which @Wrangler denies happened.]

Perhaps it is you who deny the shift to a Christian nation and how that applies to the Crusades.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus and the apostles set the example, are the example, of the practical application of scripture for the followers of Jesus.

Not an answer to my question. Doesn't surprise me as a coward cannot bear scrutiny.

We agree that Jesus is the example but you ignore that Jesus' practical solution to the problem of evil is violence.

 

[Matthias]

Needless death is something you enjoy?

No. I enjoy responding to my enemies in the same manner which Jesus and the apostles responded to theirs

Perhaps it is you who deny the shift to a Christian nation and how that applies to the Crusades.

The kingdoms of the world are not the kingdom of God.

 

[Wrangler]

The kingdoms of the world are not the kingdom of God.

Negation. Total denial of practical application of Scripture. Fiercely anti-Scriptural. Pathetic.

 

[Matthias]

Not an answer to my question. Doesn't surprise me as a coward cannot bear scrutiny.

Follow Jesus and the apostles is always my answer to the world.

We agree that Jesus is the example but you ignore that Jesus' practical solution to the problem of evil is violence.

Jesus didn’t employ violence against his enemies. Violence isn’t his solution to the problem of evil.

P.S.

I put this question to AI -

Is violence the practical solution of Jesus to the problem of evil?

AI Overview replied -

“No. Forgiveness and self-sacrificial love, rather than violence, are the practical solutions Jesus offered to solve the problem of evil.

Jesus explicitly rejected violence, teaching his followers to overcome evil with good. Specific tenets of his approach include:

• Enemy-Love and Nonviolence: In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus commands followers to love their enemis, bless those who persecute them, and ‘turn the other cheek’ rather than retaliate.

• The Rejection of the Sword: When arrested, Jesus stopped his disciple from fighting the guards, declaring that ‘all who take the sword will perish by the sword’.

• Absorbing Violence: Instead of returning violence, Jesus’s response to evil culminated in the cross. He modeled absorbing the world’s hostility without reciprocating it, demonstrating a commitment to breaking the cycle of retribution.

Diverse perspectives exist on how these teachings apply to human governance and the protection if the innocent. Many Christians interpret Jesus’s life as a strict mandate for pacifism, while others argue that the state retains a role in maintaining justice using force, even if individuals are called to a nonviolent ethic.”

My position is that followers of Jesus are called to his nonviolent ethic and the role of the state is to use violence, when necessary, to maintain order (Romans 13).