Marry in Registry Office

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David Lamb

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God is not a party to any "civil" marriage, as "civil" is an invention of men and does not appear in the Holy Bible. Rather, the authority being referred to in your cited passage would be Godly authority (Lawful) and not the purported authority of the State (legal).
But neither is there any mention in the Bible of marriages taking place in a church building, or with a pastor leading the ceremony.
When God is removed as the basis for societal contracts (covenants as opposed to contracts), the tyranny of the State takes his place. And the State is a cruel master. Jesus said his yoke is easy and his burden light. How different it is with the State. God is not a respecter of persons; the State is.


You may not view it that way, but the State does. Because you have contracted with the State (ignorantly or otherwise), you will render to the State - and, if the State deems it necessary, by force.


Rather, a believer "must obey God" from the outset. Compromising with temporal powers whenever they seem to harmonize with God's Law can never lead to redemption. My God is a jealous God and he will not share his glory with another.
It's not a case of leading to redemption. That is entirely done by the Redeemer, Jesus Christ. We have commands in the Bible to honour, pray for, and obey our rulers. For example:

(1Ti 2:1 NKJV) Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
(1Ti 2:2) for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
(1Ti 2:3) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

(Tit 3:1) Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work,

(1Pe 2:17) Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

The malevolence of the spirit empowering the State is only a matter of degree - not of geography.


There's the deception. Yes, you did 'bring the system...into your union'! You signed on, voluntarily, to the system. And you did it for one or both of these reasons:

1) You were afraid of the perceived consequences of disobedience to the State;
2) You signed one or more contracts with the State, joining the Living man to the dead corporate State, thereby giving the State jurisdiction over you.
No, I didn't sign a contract with the state when I got married. It wasn't a case the state saying, "You sign the marriage certificate, and we will do (whatever)." I was not afraid of the perceived consequences of disobedience to the State. As I have quote from Scripture above, we are commanded in the Bible to obey those in authority over us. That authority does not depend upon whether or not I sign a marriage certificate.
In the absence of the understanding of God as the head of the marriage covenant, the State has taken his place and wreaked havoc. The marriage contract/license has no meaning except for the purposes of the godless State...
I didn't sign a marriage contract, but a marriage certificate. I agree that God rules over all. But take that to its logical conclusion, and the state would do absolutely nothing.
 

doctrox

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But neither is there any mention in the Bible of marriages taking place in a church building, or with a pastor leading the ceremony.
Indeed. We (the believers) are the church.

We have commands in the Bible to honour, pray for, and obey our rulers.
To which "rulers" have you submitted? That is the crux - because those are the "rulers" you will be required to render unto...

The majority do not discern they have a choice the matter.

(1Ti 2:1 NKJV) Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
(1Ti 2:2) for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
(1Ti 2:3) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

(Tit 3:1) Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work,

(1Pe 2:17) Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
That all is describing Godly authority - not the pretender.

No, I didn't sign a contract with the state when I got married. It wasn't a case the state saying, "You sign the marriage certificate, and we will do (whatever)." I was not afraid of the perceived consequences of disobedience to the State.
and
I didn't sign a marriage contract, but a marriage certificate.
They are the same thing. There is absolutely no difference.

CONTRACT. A promissory agreement between two or more persons that creates, modifies, or destroys a legal relation. Black's Law Dictionary, p. 394.

CERTIFICATE. A written assurance made or issuing from some court, and designed as a notice of things done therein, or as a warrant or authority, to some other court, judge, or officer. Black's Law Dictionary, p. 285.

As I have quote from Scripture above, we are commanded in the Bible to obey those in authority over us. That authority does not depend upon whether or not I sign a marriage certificate.
So you are admitting that your authority is the State. If not, then why did you sign the State's "marriage certificate"?

Again, the salient question remains: "To which authority have you chosen to submit?"

IOW, who do you look to, for the authority to do the things that you do? Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
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marks

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"""""""""""I would say that any marriage is valid before God if it is by consensual agreement
What about unbelievers who self-marry without any reference to GOD ?
eg :-
Colorado - do it yourself marraige ?
No witnesses required, any location, just the 2 of you.

..
View attachment 85344
What I've seen in the Bible is that God recognizes the society's mores of marriage. So if the method in a certain culture of getting married is to slap each other 5 times with a Red Snapper, if the happy couple "Swing the Snapper", they've "tied the knot", and they are married, in God's eyes.

As I understand it.

Much love!
 

doctrox

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So if the method in a certain culture of getting married...then they are married, in God's eyes.
There's the deception --> The belief that such a marriage is "in God's eyes."

Rather, such a marriage has nothing in common with God and everything in common with the prevailing, pretending, purported authority of the day i.e. the godless State.
 

marks

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My belief is that if a couple have consensual sex they are married in the sight of God ... which would mean an awful lot of people are living in adultery ... unless they have repented and asked forgiveness.
The samaritan woman that Jesus spoke with "and the one you have now is not your husband", the implication there is that sex did not make them wed. Same with Judah and Tamar, having consensual sex did not make them wed.

Much love!
 
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marks

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There's the deception --> The belief that such a marriage is "in God's eyes."

Rather, such a marriage has nothing in common with God and everything in common with the prevailing, pretending, purported authority of the day i.e. the godless State.
Not so.

In every case where the Bible presents someone as having been wed in their culture, it accounts them to be wed. If you do what your culture counts as getting married, you are married in God's eyes.

Much love!
 

doctrox

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...consensual sex did not make them wed.
Think of all the funky refuse following "consensual sex": shotgun weddings, bastard children, STD's, ad nauseum.

In every case where the Bible presents someone as having been wed in their culture, it accounts them to be wed. If you do what your culture counts as getting married, you are married in God's eyes.
A Lawful marriage is not based on cultural norms.
 

marks

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A Lawful marriage is not based on cultural norms.
Is no one married who was not married in a church by a Christian pastor? I'm not buying it.

Genesis 20:17 KJV
17) So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.

How did Amimelech have a wife? No Christian pastors in Gerar.

Judges 4:17 KJV
17) Howbeit Sisera fled away on his feet to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite: for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite.

Christian Kenite pastors?

Do you see what I'm saying here?

Much love!
 

markalan

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The samaritan woman that Jesus spoke with "and the one you have now is not your husband", the implication there is that sex did not make them wed. Same with Judah and Tamar, having consensual sex did not make them wed.
Jesus said she had five "husbands".
The woman was at that time living with a man who was married to another woman ... so not her husband.

The Bible does not say what happened to Tamar but both the Genesis Rabbah and Talmud state that Judah accepted her as a wife though he had no further sexual liaisons with her according to Genesis 38:26.
 
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David Lamb

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Indeed. We (the believers) are the church.
Agreed. That is why I was careful to say, "in a church building."
To which "rulers" have you submitted? That is the crux - because those are the "rulers" you will be required to render unto...

The majority do not discern they have a choice the matter.
What choice did the Jews of New Testament times have? Could they have said, "We don't like being under the rule of the Roman Emperor. We'll become an independent country again"? Of course they couldn't. In democracies we have a choice of who to vote for when there is an election, but by no means everybody votes for the candidate or the party who will eventually get into the parliament, senate, or whatever.
That all is describing Godly authority - not the pretender.
But the "authority" in those days was Emperor Nero.
and

They are the same thing. There is absolutely no difference.

CONTRACT. A promissory agreement between two or more persons that creates, modifies, or destroys a legal relation. Black's Law Dictionary, p. 394.

CERTIFICATE. A written assurance made or issuing from some court, and designed as a notice of things done therein, or as a warrant or authority, to some other court, judge, or officer. Black's Law Dictionary, p. 285.
So you are admitting that your authority is the State. If not, then why did you sign the State's "marriage certificate"?
My marriage certificate is not a contract with the state. Here is the wording of my marriage certificate. As you will see, there is absolutely nothing there agreeing to any contract with the state:

"Registration District Newton Abbot
1985 Marriage solemnized at Wesley Church - East Dawlish in the District of Newton Abbot in the County of Devon
No.39 When Married: Sixth day of April 1985
(groom) Name and Surname: David John LAMB Age: 35 yrs Condition:Bachelor Rank or Profession:School Teacher Residence at time of Marriage:28 Prospect, Eastcliff Road, Dawlish Father's Name and Surname: Leslie Ronald LAMB Rank or Profession of Father: Tool Designer
(bride) Name and Surname:Jean Eileen McDONALD Age:32 yrs Condition: Spinster Rank or Profession:Nursery Nurse Residence at time of Marriage: 15 Clovelly Rise, Oaklands Park, Dawlish Father's Name and Surname: Ivor Alan McDONALD Rank or Profession of Father: Retired Social Worker
Married in the Methodist Church according to the rites and ceremonies of the Methodists by Certificate.
This Marriage was solemnized between us, D. Lamb, J.E.McDonald in the Presence of us,S. Lamb, I.A.McDonald and in the presence of John Lander, Authorised Person for the said Church, co-signed by Philip A.Grist, formerly pastor, Prettygate Baptist Church, Colchester."

All the certificate provides are the details of the marriage, such as who was married, where, when, etc.
Again, the salient question remains: "To which authority have you chosen to submit?"

IOW, who do you look to, for the authority to do the things that you do? Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
My ultimate authority is God Himself. If some other authority, like the national or local government, were to tell me to do something that God forbids, or not to do something that God commands, then I would have to disobey the earthly authority in order to obey God.
 

markalan

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My marriage certificate is not a contract with the state. Here is the wording of my marriage certificate. As you will see, there is absolutely nothing there agreeing to any contract with the state:
Even so, a legal marriage certificate enables people to access government entitlements ... well it used to, but these days schools refer to "care person 1" and "care person 2" ... mother & father have become old fashioned ... like me!