Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[PinSeeker]

Okay. But, my post must have spawned yours, at least, since no one was talking about 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 before I mentioned it. So, it came across that you thought when I said the earth would be destroyed that I was saying it would be annihilated and I wanted to clear that up from my own perspective so as not to be misrepresented.

You said, "mass, global destruction." Not my words... yours. Maybe you should have defined "mass, global destruction." Whatever. No need.

Grace and peace.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You said, "mass, global destruction." Not my words... yours. Maybe you should have defined "mass, global destruction." Whatever. No need.

Grace and peace.

Agree with your last two words of the first line. Plus, I've explained my view of this on this forum many times before, so didn't think there was a need to do it again. And the flood was mass, global destruction and didn't result in annihilation, so...yeah. Whatever, though.

 

[PinSeeker]

...the flood was mass, global destruction and didn't result in annihilation, so...yeah. Whatever, though.

This time God will burn everything up, though, right? <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Marvelloustime]

And they loved not their lives unto death . SO allow one more reminder .
HE who endures TO THE END the same shall be saved . To the END .

@amigo de christo

 

[Davidpt]

This time God will burn everything up, though, right? <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

Speaking of something like that. Let's consider this scenario.

There is a ship out at sea. It catches fire and the fire is out of control and humanly impossible to put out at this point. The fire has already destoyed any and all life preservers, lifeboats, etc. Everyone still alive aboard the ship are doomed and they clearly know it. Which death should we assume they might choose, given they have a choice? Staying aboard the ship risking being burned to a crisp eventually? Or jumping overboard risking drowning eventually?Obviously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

And it really makes sense, that as bad as it is to drown to death, thus not a pleasant way to die, that God has found a loophole. He doesn't have to drown everyone just like He promised. He simply comes up with a way to kill everyone off that is hundreds if not thousands of times more horrific than drowning, burning everyone and everything to ashes. I hope none of these Amils that believe that think there will be animals in the new earth. How could there be if the entire animal kingdom is wiped out entirely, including all creatures living in bodies of water, such as ponds, lakes, rivers, seas, oceans.

Maybe you can't drown any of those during a flood, but no way could they survive the intense heat that would be millions of degrees F per this scenario, and the intense smoke that would be from one end of the earth to the other. I'm just not on board with nonsense like that. My mind is unwilling to accept that absurdity. And not because I'm Premil, but because it is profoundly absurd, period. Which then begs the question, the fact Revelation 19 involves the 2nd coming as well, where in all of Revelation 19 does it remotely depict that the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames and that everyone and everything still on the planet at the time are being burned to ashes? Then using feasting birds imagery to convey that, as if that makes a lick of sense per a scenario like that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This time God will burn everything up, though, right? <smile>

Sure. Why not? Destroying (not annihilating....always need to clarify that, apparently) the earth is obviously something that God has done before. And sending fire down on earth is also something He has done before, but just not the entire earth. How else is He going to remove the wicked and renew the earth except by fire? Why not by fire? I don't understand the objection to this at all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Speaking of something like that. Let's consider this scenario.

There is a ship out at sea. It catches fire and the fire is out of control and humanly impossible to put out at this point. The fire has already destoyed any and all life preservers, lifeboats, etc. Everyone still alive aboard the ship are doomed and they clearly know it. Which death should we assume they might choose, given they have a choice? Staying aboard the ship risking being burned to a crisp eventually? Or jumping overboard risking drowning eventually?Obviously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

And it really makes sense, that as bad as it is to drown to death, thus not a pleasant way to die, that God has found a loophole. He doesn't have to drown everyone just like He promised. He simply comes up with a way to kill everyone off that is hundreds if not thousands of times more horrific than drowning, burning everyone and everything to ashes.

You obviously have Amils like me in mind here, so let us reason together. You are misrepresenting my, and many other Amils, understanding of what is going to occur. You are acting as if we believe that God will take His time burning up the earth and that people will be running around on fire and screaming while trying to put the fire out and so on. No. That's not what we believe. How long do you think it took Sodom and Gomorrah to be burned up? The indications are that they were destroyed by fire instantly. As fast as Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt. So, with that in mind, drowning is much worse than being instantly destroyed by fire.

If you have a problem with the idea of God sending fire down on people in general, then does what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah bother you? Do you believe God was overly cruel when He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by fire? Or is your objection only based on the type of scenario you're describing, which does not accurately represent what I believe, as I explained?

You can't refute an opposing belief by misrepresenting it. That's just not reasonable. Please address what we actually believe.

I hope none of these Amils that believe that think there will be animals in the new earth. How could there be if the entire animal kingdom is wiped out entirely, including all creatures living in bodies of water, such as ponds, lakes, rivers, seas, oceans. Maybe you can't drown any of those during a flood, but no way could they survive the intense heat that would be millions of degrees F per this scenario, and the intense smoke that would be from one end of the earth to the other. I'm just not on board with nonsense like that.

You can't have beliefs that are based on your emotions rather than on scripture. That's how people end up believing in things like annihilation rather than the biblical teaching of eternal torment. Eternal torment seems overly cruel and unjust to them just as you think would be the case if all animals are destroyed. God has never said that animals are eternal creatures or that He would dwell with animals forever. He does not have a personal relationship with animals. Only with humans and angels.

My mind is unwilling to accept that absurdity.

What is absurd about the idea that animals are not meant to exist for eternity and that only humans and angels are? Why does scripture not place the significance on animals that you do? What scripture can you use to back up your beliefs about this?

And not because I'm Premil, but because it is profoundly absurd, period. Which then begs the question, the fact Revelation 19 involves the 2nd coming as well, where in all of Revelation 19 does it remotely depict that the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames and that everyone and everything still on the planet at the time are being burned to ashes? Then using feasting birds imagery to convey that, as if that makes a lick of sense per a scenario like that.

Revelation 19 is symbolic. Clearly, Jesus is not going to slay people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth or literally tread them in a winepress at His second coming. So, we shouldn't assume that the description of birds consuming people's flesh who were killed by the sword coming out of Christ's mouth should be taken literally, either.

 

[amigo de christo]

You obviously have Amils like me in mind here, so let us reason together. You are misrepresenting my, and many other Amils, understanding of what is going to occur. You are acting as if we believe that God will take His time burning up the earth and that people will be running around on fire and screaming while trying to put the fire out and so on. No. That's not what we believe. How long do you think it took Sodom and Gomorrah to be burned up? The indications are that they were destroyed by fire instantly. As fast as Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt. So, with that in mind, drowning is much worse than being instantly destroyed by fire.

If you have a problem with the idea of God sending fire down on people in general, then does what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah bother you? Do you believe God was overly cruel when He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by fire? Or is your objection only based on the type of scenario you're describing, which does not accurately represent what I believe, as I explained?

You can't refute an opposing belief by misrepresenting it. That's just not reasonable. Please address what we actually believe.


You can't have beliefs that are based on your emotions rather than on scripture. That's how people end up believing in things like annihilation rather than the biblical teaching of eternal torment. Eternal torment seems overly cruel and unjust to them just as you think would be the case if all animals are destroyed. God has never said that animals are eternal creatures or that He would dwell with animals forever. He does not have a personal relationship with animals. Only with humans and angels.


What is absurd about the idea that animals are not meant to exist for eternity and that only humans and angels are? Why does scripture not place the significance on animals that you do? What scripture can you use to back up your beliefs about this?


Revelation 19 is symbolic. Clearly, Jesus is not going to slay people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth or literally tread them in a winepress at His second coming. So, we shouldn't assume that the description of birds consuming people's flesh who were killed by the sword coming out of Christ's mouth should be taken literally, either.

Revelation nineteen is exactly as JESUS said . MY WORDS shall be your judge on the last day .
It sure do represent their judgment of wrath , WHICH IS laid down by JESUS himself against them .
To the trenches one and all . We gots us a harlot selling love and by her love has seduced many to A LIE .
And that LIE omits THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS . T HUS Damantion awaits all who bought it .
We cannot serve both TRUTH and A LIE . WE MUST MAKE OUR CHOICE TODAY . ITS EITHER TRUTH or A LIE
but it cannot b e both one serv es .

 

[amigo de christo]

Agree with your last two words of the first line. Plus, I've explained my view of this on this forum many times before, so didn't think there was a need to do it again. And the flood was mass, global destruction and didn't result in annihilation, so...yeah. Whatever, though.

let each be fully persauded that we cannot serve TRUTH and A LIE . we cannot cliam both BELIEF and UNBELEIF .
MANY gonna wail my friend . THEY GONNA wail on JESUS day and their idols and false love will not be ab le
to save or deliver them FROM THE WRATH OF GOD and OF THE LAMB .
SO may i reminds us all .
YE CANNOT cliam to BELIEVE ON JESUS and then also cliam UNBELEIF as other reglioins get a pass .
EITHER YE BELEIVE or you dont , BUT IT CANNOT BE BOTH .
EITHER ONE as a child BELIEVES they must BELEIVE ON JESUS to be saved , or they beleive its okay if one believes not .
BUT IT CANNOT be both . FOR all they ever really beleived was , OH ITS OKAY if one believes not ON JESUS .
Paul suffered much
as did peter , as did john and them all . AND WHY did they suffer at the hands of men .
CAUSE THEY PREACHED JESUS . JESUS , not some finding common ground anti christ lie .
IF paul had sought common ground with unbelieving jews , HE HAD NEVER ONCE been perseucted by them .
THIS g eneration LOVES A LIE . I have come to EXPOSE THAT LIE .
AND to make sure that all who name the name of the CHRIST OF GOD
Understands , that ye cannot be co helper to the TRUTH and to A LIE . or all you ever were
was co helper to THE LIE . THE LIE of UNBELIEF . I Expose before all today , THE ANTI CHRIST PEACE RELIGION
of intefaith ecumeincal incluisive interreligious dialgoue .
I HAVE MADE MY CHOICE . THAT CHOICE IS JESUS . AND IT IS HE who i shall preach and not rather
allow UNBELIEF to b e accepted . This sheep DONT SERVE a lie nor am i co helper to A LIE .
I Expose A LIE and shall preach JESUS CHRIST and the aboslute , now hear this , ABOSLUTE DIRE NECESSITY
to BELEIVE ON HIM . And we IF truly BELIEVE ON HIM , WE HAD absolutely BELIEVED HIS WORDS .
IT matters not to me that more and more cannot stand to be anywhere near me .
DUE to my relentless reminder THAT ALL them religons be false and of the darkness
and that they must repent and BELEIVE on CHRIST JESUS the SON OF GOD or prepare to wail as they perish .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I agree, but that still does not necessarily mean that (in order) Jesus's return and final defeat of Satan, the final Judgment and sending away of unbelievers into that judgment, and the consummation of God's Kingdom and the beginning of the New Heaven and New Earth will take place over the course of more than one 12- or 24-hour period. All we can know is that it will all take place in very short order. How much time actually elapses is unknown, but not important, really. It'll happen, and we'll all be... very, very glad. <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

Well you are mixing up many events that are separated by a thousand years. As for the great white throne judgment and the events before and after, they will take time.

Satan is defeated and hurled in the LOF
The resurrection of the lost
Their judgment
Prior to this, the present universe is destroyed by fire
Then teh new heavens and earth.

At some point here time ceases so we will not count as we do now. but it will take more than 24 hours.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I know (I think) what you are getting at, that the DOTL encompasses both God's wrath and Jesus 1000 year reign on earth. I buy that also, but I was just pointing to the time period between when the wrath falls and when Jesus' 2nd coming happens. I think Daniel 12 is key. The three numbers tell us everything.

No.

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So, 1335 days before the 2nd coming we see a Blessing, those living at that time will be blessed by some "unknown event". That event is the 2 witnesses showing up to turn Israel back unto God as Malachi 4:5 says and as Zech. 13:8-9 shows us, the 1/3 repent, and guess what the next verse says, in Zech. 14:1 it says the DOTL arrives !! Vs 2 shows Jerusalem being conquered and vs. 3 Jesus' 2nd coming.

The 1290 and 1335 days are after Jesus retuirns.

Based on Scriptural practices, the thirty days (1290) is Israel mourning and cleansing the temple.
The 45 days afterwards would appear to be the judgment when Jesus returns to see who enters the Millennial kingdom or not. I say this because there is a blessing for all who make it to the 1335 days

 

[KUWN]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 85552

Actually, the word for "be saved" is better translated "be delivered." This is not a salvation verse. It is a promise to all those during the Tribulation who endure throughout it, will be delivered by Christ at the end.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation nineteen is exactly as JESUS said . MY WORDS shall be your judge on the last day .
It sure do represent their judgment of wrath , WHICH IS laid down by JESUS himself against them .
To the trenches one and all . We gots us a harlot selling love and by her love has seduced many to A LIE .
And that LIE omits THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS . T HUS Damantion awaits all who bought it .
We cannot serve both TRUTH and A LIE . WE MUST MAKE OUR CHOICE TODAY . ITS EITHER TRUTH or A LIE
but it cannot b e both one serv es .

What exactly is your point here as it relates to what I said? Are you saying that Revelation 19 should be interpreted literally in the sense that He was talking about a literal sword coming out of His mouth and such? My point relates to the type of physical destruction that will occur when He returns. Do you agree that it will be by fire (2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12)?

 

[amigo de christo]

What exactly is your point here as it relates to what I said? Are you saying that Revelation 19 should be interpreted literally in the sense that He was talking about a literal sword coming out of His mouth and such? My point relates to the type of physical destruction that will occur when He returns. Do you agree that it will be by fire (2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12)?

my point was many are gonna wail as never before ON JESUS day . and many of them will have been sitting in churches .
That is my point . I agree it will be by fire . The amount of sheer terror
upon all who denied JESUS and pumped unbelief to the masses .
Would you like a simple summation of TRUTH .
Notice JESUS said , HE who recieves His testimony has set to his seal THAT GOD IS TRUE .
and later john would also say He who recieves NOT the testimony GOD gave of the SON callls GOD a liar .
WOULD you like to hear what that means .
IT means all who fail to beleive JESUS is the CHRIST calls GOD a liar .
THOSE who do BELIEVE ON HIM , LET GOD BE TRUE .
its that simple . So , now ya see why i shun satans harlot of anti christ ecumiencal intefaith right to the outhouse
if i could . I preach JESUS , not false love fairy tale fables ab out how all religoins be serving the same GOD
a true christain does . OH THEY serve the same god all right , but it aint the one TRUE GOD i do .
Cause if they served THE GOD I DO , THEY HAD BELEIVED HIS CHRIST as I DO .

 

[Marvelloustime]

my point was many are gonna wail as never before ON JESUS day . and many of them will have been sitting in churches .
That is my point . I agree it will be by fire . The amount of sheer terror
upon all who denied JESUS and pumped unbelief to the masses .
Would you like a simple summation of TRUTH .
Notice JESUS said , HE who recieves His testimony has set to his seal THAT GOD IS TRUE .
and later john would also say He who recieves NOT the testimony GOD gave of the SON callls GOD a liar .
WOULD you like to hear what that means .
IT means all who fail to beleive JESUS is the CHRIST calls GOD a liar .
THOSE who do BELIEVE ON HIM , LET GOD BE TRUE .
its that simple . So , now ya see why i shun satans harlot of anti christ ecumiencal intefaith right to the outhouse
if i could . I preach JESUS , not false love fairy tale fables ab out how all religoins be serving the same GOD
a true christain does . OH THEY serve the same god all right , but it aint the one TRUE GOD i do .
Cause if they served THE GOD I DO , THEY HAD BELEIVED HIS CHRIST as I DO .

@amigo de christo

 

[Ronald D Milam]

No.

Some people see it as when God takes back over, and runs though Jesus' reign of 1000 years. So, I can see it either way.

The 1290 and 1335 days are after Jesus retuirns.

That is what many say, but why is the church all over the place on those numbers meaning? Everyone seems to just be guessing. Why does the 1260 end with the 2nd coming (Jesus slays the AC and his minions) but the other 2 numbers have different equations? God is always symmetrical, He doesn't change things up in the middle of a chapter, its not the 1260 its really the 1261, if one is looking from the start of the 70th week, and Daniel 12:7 clearly says that the holy peoples (Israel) will be conquered for 1260 days, not 1261, so the count is on the back end of the middle of the week, and Jesus' 2nd coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS, so why is the symmetry changed? Daniel asks WHEN WILL ALL THESE THINGS END? The 2nd coming is the fulcrum point, in all three numbers.

Based on Scriptural practices, the thirty days (1290) is Israel mourning and cleansing the temple.
The 45 days afterwards would appear to be the judgment when Jesus returns to see who enters the Millennial kingdom or not. I say this because there is a blessing for all who make it to the 1335 days

All one has to do to grasp this is think it through (as I did when the holy spirit gave it to me, I believe in testing the spirits, I did not buy it myself. Satan will try to lie unto us). The clincher for me was two fold.

1.) Why does the AC allow the Jews to flee after the 1290 if he's the one in the temple? WHY? And why would God not warn Israel before he conquers them.

2.) Does it fit the TIMING of the Two-witnesses? Yes, if the 1335 means the Two-witnesses must show up 75 days before the Beast then three things prove this as factual. (A.) Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah will return BEFORE(1335) the DOTL(1260) to turn Israel back unto God. (B.) Israel's 1/3 MUST REPENT BEFORE the DOTL as Zech. 13:8-9 shows followed by Zech. 14:1 where the DOTL arrives. (C.) Finally, the proof beyond proof that convinced me, if the 2 Witnesses show up 75 days before the beast, this is 100% provable because both The Beast & The Two-witnesses have Ordained by God 1260 day Offices on earth. So, are the Two-witnesses still around when Jesus shows up? NO !! They are killed after the 2nd Woe, just before the 3rd Woe (7th Trump), so their 1260 day period MUST START..........MUST............Before the Beasts 1260 day rule starts. Thus the 1335 being the Two-witnesses fits the timeline.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Some people see it as when God takes back over, and runs though Jesus' reign of 1000 years. So, I can see it either way.


That is what many say, but why is the church all over the place on those numbers meaning? Everyone seems to just be guessing. Why does the 1260 end with the 2nd coming (Jesus slays the AC and his minions) but the other 2 numbers have different equations? God is always symmetrical, He doesn't change things up in the middle of a chapter, its not the 1260 its really the 1261, if one is looking from the start of the 70th week, and Daniel 12:7 clearly says that the holy peoples (Israel) will be conquered for 1260 days, not 1261, so the count is on the back end of the middle of the week, and Jesus' 2nd coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS, so why is the symmetry changed? Daniel asks WHEN WILL ALL THESE THINGS END? The 2nd coming is the fulcrum point, in all three numbers.


All one has to do to grasp this is think it through (as I did when the holy spirit gave it to me, I believe in testing the spirits, I did not buy it myself. Satan will try to lie unto us). The clincher for me was two fold.

1.) Why does the AC allow the Jews to flee after the 1290 if he's the one in the temple? WHY? And why would God not warn Israel before he conquers them.

2.) Does it fit the TIMING of the Two-witnesses? Yes, if the 1335 means the Two-witnesses must show up 75 days before the Beast then three things prove this as factual. (A.) Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah will return BEFORE(1335) the DOTL(1260) to turn Israel back unto God. (B.) Israel's 1/3 MUST REPENT BEFORE the DOTL as Zech. 13:8-9 shows followed by Zech. 14:1 where the DOTL arrives. (C.) Finally, the proof beyond proof that convinced me, if the 2 Witnesses show up 75 days before the beast, this is 100% provable because both The Beast & The Two-witnesses have Ordained by God 1260 day Offices on earth. So, are the Two-witnesses still around when Jesus shows up? NO !! They are killed after the 2nd Woe, just before the 3rd Woe (7th Trump), so their 1260 day period MUST START..........MUST............Before the Beasts 1260 day rule starts. Thus the 1335 being the Two-witnesses fits the timeline.

YOu can postulate and formulate all you want but it is what Scripture says it is. And from teh rest of Scripture wqe can glean what takes place in those extra 30 days and then other 45 days.

And no god is not always symmetrical.

Yes the 2nd coming is symmetrical but god says there will be 30 extra days and then 45 more. He does not give the answer as to fully why (though it is Israel to mourn and to judge the survivors of the trib.)

Sorry but o the two witnesses have nothing to do with it.

Their death is marked by worldwide celebration. That is impossible to do given in the last 3 1/2 years the trumpet and bowl judgments take place and the antichrist is marshalling his forces at har-megiddo to fight Jesus at His return.

The day of the Lord arrives after the opening of the 6th seal. And that happens after god seals the 144,000 Jewish menf or global evangelism.

The AC does not allow the Jews to flee. God does. As soon as the AC rises from the dead and enters the temple, that is the sign that Israel is to flee. Remember from Zech13 that in the trib, 2/3 of all Jews will be killed and the 1/3 that survive (most if not all will be in Petra) will have the veil removed, receive Jesus as Messiah and call upon Him to return.

 

[PinSeeker]

Sure. Why not? Destroying (not annihilating....always need to clarify that, apparently) the earth is obviously something that God has done before. And sending fire down on earth is also something He has done before, but just not the entire earth. How else is He going to remove the wicked and renew the earth except by fire? Why not by fire? I don't understand the objection to this at all.

God is the consuming fire.

Regarding the unrepentant, He will "destroy" in the sense of complete devastation and ruination, the revocation and permanent loss of any hope of redemption. They will not enter into the New Heaven and New Earth; they will depart, having been resurrected to God's judgment, into eternal punishment. Those not in Christ will be completely submersed in the fire of God's eternal judgment, rendered finally and permanently in the final Judgment.

And regarding Christians and all of God's creation, it is a complete purification... this world, this universe, will be completely redeemed and made new, completely rid of sin and death. And you may call that my opinion; I don't mind. <smile> As a fellow Amillennial Christian, I'm... well, surprised at what you say here.

________________________________________________________________________

Well you are mixing up many events that are separated by a thousand years.

No, you misplace the thousand years. <smile> And you may call that my opinion; I don't mind. <smile>

So, to your list, here...

As for the great white throne judgment and the events before and after, they will take time.

Well, as for before, we'll certainly get there... And after will be eternity... the new heaven and new earth.

Satan is defeated and hurled in the LOF

Agree, after the thousand years, but before the "White throne" judgment, the final Judgment, yes.

The resurrection of the lost.

Depends which resurrection you're talking about here, the first or the second. If you're talking about the second, I agree, but it will not just be "the lost," but everyone. As Jesus says, "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29). And Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, "...the dead in Christ will rise first," which is to say also, but not explicitly, there will be many raised after ~ second ~ the dead in Christ, those dead and not in Christ... the lost, as you say.

Their judgment

We will all be judged according to what we have done. One cannot read Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus's graphic depiction of the final Judgment, and think there is anyone, even those in Christ, not at the final Judgment. But since we are in Christ, we will be judged righteous, according to His righteousness and not our own. But everyone will be judged.

Prior to this, the present universe is destroyed by fire

Ugh. <smile> Totally disagree. It will be refined ~ as in made totally pure, redeemed and freed absolutely from death and sin ~ by God, Who Himself is a consuming fire.

Then thr new heavens and earth.

Yes. Absolutely.

At some point here time ceases so we will not count as we do now.

Well, time will have no bearing in the sense that in eternity, there will be no end.

...it will take more than 24 hours.

We cannot know that. All we can know is that it will happen, and in short order. But sure, you're welcome to your opinion; I don't have any problem with that.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[KUWN]

Some people see it as when God takes back over, and runs though Jesus' reign of 1000 years. So, I can see it either way.


That is what many say, but why is the church all over the place on those numbers meaning? Everyone seems to just be guessing. Why does the 1260 end with the 2nd coming (Jesus slays the AC and his minions) but the other 2 numbers have different equations? God is always symmetrical, He doesn't change things up in the middle of a chapter, its not the 1260 its really the 1261, if one is looking from the start of the 70th week, and Daniel 12:7 clearly says that the holy peoples (Israel) will be conquered for 1260 days, not 1261, so the count is on the back end of the middle of the week, and Jesus' 2nd coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS, so why is the symmetry changed? Daniel asks WHEN WILL ALL THESE THINGS END? The 2nd coming is the fulcrum point, in all three numbers.


All one has to do to grasp this is think it through (as I did when the holy spirit gave it to me, I believe in testing the spirits, I did not buy it myself. Satan will try to lie unto us). The clincher for me was two fold.

1.) Why does the AC allow the Jews to flee after the 1290 if he's the one in the temple? WHY? And why would God not warn Israel before he conquers them.

2.) Does it fit the TIMING of the Two-witnesses? Yes, if the 1335 means the Two-witnesses must show up 75 days before the Beast then three things prove this as factual. (A.) Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah will return BEFORE(1335) the DOTL(1260) to turn Israel back unto God. (B.) Israel's 1/3 MUST REPENT BEFORE the DOTL as Zech. 13:8-9 shows followed by Zech. 14:1 where the DOTL arrives. (C.) Finally, the proof beyond proof that convinced me, if the 2 Witnesses show up 75 days before the beast, this is 100% provable because both The Beast & The Two-witnesses have Ordained by God 1260 day Offices on earth. So, are the Two-witnesses still around when Jesus shows up? NO !! They are killed after the 2nd Woe, just before the 3rd Woe (7th Trump), so their 1260 day period MUST START..........MUST............Before the Beasts 1260 day rule starts. Thus the 1335 being the Two-witnesses fits the timeline.

Ronald, this may be the most convoluted understanding of prophecy that I have ever read. I would encourage you to seriously get some scholarly commentaries on Daniel and the book of Revelation. The book of Revelation alone would help you see where your numbers are considerably off. Go to bestcommentaries.com and choose a couple for Daniel and maybe a few commentaries on Revelation. The good news is that most of the commentaries they recommend are easy to understanding. It might be time-consuming but if you read these commentaries, all the while being instructed by the Holy Spirit, you will come away with a more accurate picture of the end times.