Many Say ‘Just Believe’… But What Did Jesus Actually Teach?

[faithhopecharity]

So you presumably believe that the apostles were making a mistake when they said to the jailer at Philippi:

(Act 16:31) So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

Perhaps you think they should have said, ""Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and when you die and passed through the judgment, you will be saved."

What about the words of Jesus Himself? He said:

(Joh 6:47) Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Not, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me will have everlasting life after he or she has died and been judged."

does it imply immediate salvation?

and immediate eternal salvation the first moment of belief?

Jesus says in mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved

does it imply immediate salvation the second baptism is accomplished?

and did they teach that we can lose salvation?

"he who believes in Me has everlasting life"

eternal life is used in many ways in scripture sometimes referring to eternal salvation in glory like mk 10:30 sometimes grace like Jn 10:10

thks

 

[mailmandan]

Perfect here means complete, mature, fully developed. Not absolute perfection or salvation based on the merit of works.

how do you know?

scripture often has multiple plausible meanings without saying which is truth and which is error

how do we know which is true?

thks

Strong's Greek: 5046. τέλειος (teleios) -- Perfect, complete, mature, full-grown

 

[mailmandan]

so do you finally reject faith alone or are you holding to the mental illness of its faith alone but this faith is never alone?

thks

Mental illness? LOL! Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[faithhopecharity]

It's all about obtaining and maintaining salvation by works with this guy. He is thoroughly indoctrinated into Roman Catholicism. Official Roman Catholic teaching would not allow the sinner to rely by faith on the mercy of God or to believe that his sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake only. Something more is required. You must keep yourself justified by your own good works. You must merit grace and eternal life by your works. You must pay the debt of sins by your penance and your purgatorial sufferings. That is Rome's salvation by works!

The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works

where does it say Christ did it all and there is nothing we can do?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

We can pray God leads them to find their way out of the church and to Christ.

Every Roman Catholic I've engaged in conversation about faith always has answered with, I'm Catholic, when I ask if they are Christian.

I always wanted to follow up with the Catholic and ask,what does that mean? But I didn't want to appear confrontational when I was sincerely seeking clarity.

Whereas others of any other denomination will say they are Christian , before referencing the denomination they're affiliated with.

Christ and His church are one!
ps 23:4 acts 9:4 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Christ founded the one true church! mt 16:18-19 Jn 10:16

who establish your sect? and by what authority? where does it say to have a reformation?

the revealed truth and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed especially by the tradition of men!

only one new covenant both Christian & Catholic!

thks

btw you can ask me anything

 

[mailmandan]

where does it say Christ did it all and there is nothing we can do?

thks

Its not that we do absolutely nothing at all and are automatically saved, yet grace and redemption through Christ is God's part and receiving the gift of eternal life through faith is our part.

 

[Wick Stick]

What Did Jesus Actually Teach?

That Behavior is useful for determining Ancestry, and Genealogies are not (by their fruits ye shall know them, if ye were Abraham's children, you would act like Abraham)

That Baptism is an Adoption that is Required (John 3 - you must be born again)

That Judgment was coming on Judah (Matt 24)

Unity with the Father (John 10)

Well that's 4 out of about 100. Should be enough to add another 100 pages of arguments, I think.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Christ and His church are one!
ps 23:4 acts 9:4 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Christ founded the one true church! mt 16:18-19 Jn 10:16

who establish your sect? and by what authority? where does it say to have a reformation?

the revealed truth and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed especially by the tradition of men!

only one new covenant both Christian & Catholic!

thks

btw you can ask me anything

Who established my Christian faith? The Rock that is God,the King of Kings.Jesus Christ the Lord.

Psalm 18:2
The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

1Corinthians 10:4
And all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1Samuel 2:2
“There is none holy like the Lord: for there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God."

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

​

 

[faithhopecharity]

Strong's Greek: 5046. τέλειος (teleios) -- Perfect, complete, mature, full-grown

its still a work and not faith alone!

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

not about salvation I forgot!

explain this one

James 5:19-20

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Mental illness? LOL! Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

james 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

so do you finally reject faith alone or are you holding to the mental illness of its faith alone but this faith is never alone?

thks

faith working thru Love is not faith alone!

faith producing good works is not faith alone!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Mental illness? LOL! Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

no one hopes for that which he already possesses!

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour!

at any rate faith and hope cannot be faith alone

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Mental illness? LOL! Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

eph 2 refers to the general redemption when Christ quickend or brought us to life in grace, not our personal salvation!

To have eternal salvation we must abide in Christ and bear fruit (Lk 3:9 Jn 15:1-6) and endure to the end (mt 10:22 rev 2:10) and be judged faithful then we enter into eternal salvation!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Strong's Greek: 5046. τέλειος (teleios) -- Perfect, complete, mature, full-grown

since when is a concordance an infallible authority?

what happened to the "bible is the only authority"?

thks

 

[Gray_Joy]

no one hopes for that which he already possesses!

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour!

at any rate faith and hope cannot be faith alone

thks

I'm curious. You said earlier I may ask you anything.

I mean this to be from a desire for sincere open dialogue.

As a Roman Catholic,what do you hope to achieve by debating Protestants about the particulars of the Gospel?

 

[mailmandan]

its still a work and not faith alone!

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

not about salvation I forgot!

explain this one

James 5:19-20

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

thks

Faith (rightlt understood) in Jesus Christ (alone) for salvation remains your boogeyman because you trust in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

In regard to James 5:19-20, notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died".

In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark (Hebrews 11:7). "Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit."

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

So, is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16)

 

[mailmandan]

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

james 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

thks

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[mailmandan]

faith working thru Love is not faith alone!

faith producing good works is not faith alone!

thks

We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) hence, faith alone. Then the love of God is poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) Hence, faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) Not to become saved but because we are saved.

 

[mailmandan]

since when is a concordance an infallible authority?

what happened to the "bible is the only authority"?

thks

The NT was written in Greek and a concordance is a helpful tool that aids in understanding the original Greek.

 

[mailmandan]

no one hopes for that which he already possesses!

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour!

at any rate faith and hope cannot be faith alone

thks

Biblical hope is not some cross your fingers and hope you win the lottery kind of hope. Unlike the English word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.

Strong's Greek: 1680. ἐλπίς (elpis) -- expectation, hope

If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)