Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You have said that before and I told you that I do not debate young earth and flat earth beliefs.
Believe what you want. No harm, no foul.
Evidence for the Genesis Flood
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You have said that before and I told you that I do not debate young earth and flat earth beliefs.
Believe what you want. No harm, no foul.
The Bible describes the breakup in Genesis 7:11. I, and it was not 200 million years ago.
o Out-of-hand rejection is a logical fallacy ("begging the question").
o How is it that countless stars in the sky are burning?
o Where did the hydrogen in the sun come from, and how did it come together and ignite itself in the sun, and in thousands and thousands of other stars?
o Why does the earth have water, oxygen, and an ozone-layer that shields living things below from cosmic radiation--but the other planets do not have these things??
IMO this is not simply a scientific issue, rather it is somewhat a moral issue as well.
Grailhunter noted: <just too, silly>
o Out-of-hand rejection is a logical fallacy ("begging the question").
o How is it that countless stars in the sky are burning?
o Where did the hydrogen in the sun come from, and how did it come together and ignite itself in the sun, and in thousands and thousands of other stars?
o Why does the earth have water, oxygen, and an ozone-layer that shields living things below from cosmic radiation--but the other planets do not have these things??
IMO this is not simply a scientific issue, rather it is somewhat a moral issue as well.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
No I said it is just too silly.
That that is the debate is too silly.
The Bible is not a good source for cosmology it is written from an ancient perspective.
There is nothing wrong with that but we are not going to find information on Quantum Mechanic or Astro Physics or DNA in the scriptures.....and good thing, what would they have done with a nuclear weapon?
A lot of people think that the sun---the stars burn.....but it is actually nuclear fusion. And yes they can last billions of centuries. And again we are in a scenario where we have no cosmic stopwatch so neither of us can prove our point so again I am not going to get into a pointless debate.
We might also ask where space itself came from. Space is not nothingness, rather space is teeming with energy.
And what is the explanation for the existence of myriad burning stars and space itself. We consider "science" but I see no scientific explanation at all.
"The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork." (Psalm 19:1)
"The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand." (Isaiah 1:3)
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
First off let me get this straight. God created everything. Really the question is the timeline.
Whether it is creation of the universe or life....that is all God. Evolution itself is God directed. It is called intelligent design.
Now let me address your statement.....
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe and it remains the most abundant element in the universe. The gravitational effect of stars pulls all it needs from the universe.
I question your response regarding DNA that is genetics and bloodlines. I believe that is why the flood of Noah and him being perfect in generations it is referring to bloodlines. Also I think Jacob used his rods to change dna and get spotted ones in Gen 30:37
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Well I follow the DNA thing Ydna mainly as that is the man and God said pedigrees were the house of the father.
Also I think they are really looking as God said this:
Jeremiah 33:22 (KJV) As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.
Seed to me here is bloodlines. God chose the Levites over all other tribes, and their inheritance was God
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The pure bloods or Holy Seed as it referred to.
Ezra 9:2 : "Indeed, the Israelites have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed has been mixed with the peoples of the land. And the leaders and officials have taken the lead in this unfaithfulness." In this context, the "holy seed" refers to the Israelites, who were set apart by God as His chosen people. The concern here is the intermarriage with pagan nations, which threatened the purity and distinctiveness of the Israelites as a holy nation.
I can't remember the verse right now but after the captivity God told them to go marry and they did... this led to at time of Yeshua, the Jewish leadership changed the law and even today they use house of mother.. These woman have no idea of their paternal lines today. God says I change not.
Grailhunter noted: "hydrogen."
1. Where did the hydrogen come from?
2. How did it coalesce (gases disperse, they do not coalesce).
3. How did it then ignite, thousands and thousands of times?
4. "Gravitational effect of stars" assumes their pre-existence.
5. Have you found the Holy Grail yet?
1. Where did the hydrogen come from?
2. How did it coalesce (gases disperse, they do not coalesce).
3. How did it then ignite, thousands and thousands of times?
4. "Gravitational effect of stars" assumes their pre-existence.
5. Have you found the Holy Grail yet?
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe......
God created earth and the universe and all life, that is a fact. It just did not happen the way Genesis details it. But could Genesis had told the truth? Could Genesis have explained the cosmology of it all , quantum mechanics, astro physics, evolution and DNA. Would they have understood it and If they understood that knowledge what would they have done with it. Nuclear weapons?
No, the way Genesis tells it is exactly the way it should have been told. But now we can explain why it was told that way.
As it is now most people know that the planet is very old and evolution occurred. At this point evolution is proven by countless examples and dating that gets more sophisticated as time goes on. It is still all a matter of God, it’s the biblical dating that is inaccurate.
To push the biblical narrative about creation is not beneficial for our religion, because it puts people in a position that they have to choose to vest their life and soul on something that is obviously not true. But people will understand if we tell the truth. They will understand why God had to tell it in the manner that it is detailed in the Bible.
The same is true of the flat earth beliefs that permeated the time period. It was a general belief of the time period. For example, the Greeks were the first to suggest that the planet was round and people did not take them seriously. Many centuries later Galileo explained that the planet was round and orbited the sun and he was persecuted by the church.
As it is now there is no reason for science and the church to be at odds with each other. Science is proving the Bible to be true in many ways…..They are finding evidence of the places and people and events in the Bible all the time.
One of the most well known scientific theories is the Big Bang theory and it proves God indirectly. The Big Bang theory suggests that everything started by a massive explosion in space. Now some believe that matter exploded and some believe that energy exploded. But all understand you cannot get something from nothing. Somehow space and matter had to be created and that somehow is God. God created life and guided evolution.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
Be good and do good
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
@William Barton
Site messing up...
Do not need an atmosphere to have hydrogen.
Again the most abundant element in space is hydrogen.
Summary
Hydrogen’s overwhelming abundance shapes the structure and evolution of the universe. Its presence in stars, interstellar gas, and planets underpins both cosmic energy production and the chemical foundation for life, while helium and other heavier elements play supporting roles in the universe’s composition
Site messing up...
Do not need an atmosphere to have hydrogen.
Again the most abundant element in space is hydrogen.
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.
Hydrogen accounts for approximately 73–75% of all atoms in the universe, making it the dominant element by number, while helium follows with about 23–25% of atoms. This abundance originates from Big Bang nucleosynthesis, which occurred within the first few minutes after the Big Bang, producing mostly hydrogen and helium nuclei Hydrogen’s simplicity, consisting of a single proton and electron, allowed it to form more readily than heavier elementsRole of Hydrogen in the Universe
Hydrogen is essential for star formation, as it fuels nuclear fusion in stellar cores, producing helium and releasing energy that powers stars. It is also a key component of water (H₂O) and organic molecules, making it fundamental to the chemistry of planets and life. Hydrogen is found in stars, gas clouds, and gas giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn, which are primarily composed of hydrogen and helium.Summary
Hydrogen’s overwhelming abundance shapes the structure and evolution of the universe. Its presence in stars, interstellar gas, and planets underpins both cosmic energy production and the chemical foundation for life, while helium and other heavier elements play supporting roles in the universe’s composition
Grailhunter noted: <evolution of the universe>
The argument for evolution of the universe is as follows:
o The universe is here.
o The universe cannot have been here forever.
o Therefore the universe created itself some finite time ago.
One fundamental rule of science is that every effect has a cause. Evolution denies this rule, claiming that the universe caused itself.
The argument for evolution of the universe is as follows:
o The universe is here.
o The universe cannot have been here forever.
o Therefore the universe created itself some finite time ago.
One fundamental rule of science is that every effect has a cause. Evolution denies this rule, claiming that the universe caused itself.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Never said the universe created itself.
Never said the universe has been here forever.
What I said in a nutshell is that God created and directed everything, It is the timeline and details that need explaining.
I also said that Christianity and science does not need to be at odds because science is proving the existance of the people and places and even events in the Bible.
Grail hunter noted:
<Never said the universe created itself>
Then what is the "big bang" that atheists postulate?
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Grail hunter noted:
<It just did not happen the early the Bible said>
Right, the universe created itself, which means it preceded its own existence, and then brought itself into existence. Very scientific!
Where have you looked for the grail?
<It just did not happen the early the Bible said>
Right, the universe created itself, which means it preceded its own existence, and then brought itself into existence. Very scientific!
Where have you looked for the grail?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I know it is a general belief that if you are educated, or a scientist, or know that earth is very old and creation happened, that you are a atheist. I am living proof that is wrong.....and for the most part wrong in general. I am a formally educated Theologian educated in 5 countries and was trained by the US Navy on computer science, Quantum Mechanics and Astro Physics for Nuclear Weapons on submarines. Trained not as a scientist, but as a liaison between scientists and defense contractors and the War Department.
Years ago a lot of scientists were atheists but mostly that is untrue since the 80's. They thought they had most of it sewed up, but then the next level of knowledge happened. The state of the universe proves God, DNA is a biological computer construct that is way too complex to happen on its own. And the Big Bang proves God.
Post 72 explains the Big Bang.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
Be good and do good
IMO:
o. "Jewish" is not a religion, it is a descendance.
o. Any descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob is Jewish.
o "Judaism" is a religion.
o The Jews were directed not to marry pagans, for obvious reasons.
o. Christianity is Jewish. The first Christians were all Jewish.
